/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2200405
>First, I hate when libs make defend Stalin, because I have very little sympathy towards him, I consider him a conservative (or reactionary, whatever word you prefer) compared to many of the bolsheviks he purged, was a chief culprit in insulating communist party from democratic process and turning it into a clique of bureaucrats

I see the good lord has resurrected you.

Welcome back Trotsky.

Can someone tldr me? This shit is too much.

>>2200425
Contrapoints critique: 1) Stalin's nationalism disputed as pragmatic. 2) Class struggle intuitive; revolution vs. propaganda. 3) Exploitation hierarchy misrepresents power gaps. Criticizes moral relativism, aligning with liberal guilt and authoritarian compliance.

This is now a Andrei Fursov thread.

contrapoints is the definition of style over substance
spare me this millionaire's blog post

>>2200405
Your objections are the mewling of a petit bourgeois radical, paralyzed by contradictions and allergic to dialectics. You fret over "moral clarity" while fearing revolutionary violence. You defend Stalin’s bureaucracy but recoil from Lenin’s State and Revolution. You want communism without the party, class struggle without the class, and revolution without the rupture.

The task is not to "acknowledge the oppressor within" but to annihilate the oppressor without. Abandon this liberal navel-gazing. Pick up a rifle—or at least a copy of What Is To Be Done?

This dude hasn't been relevant for years now(Rule 12 - low-quality reactionary content)

>>2200429
>Stalin's nationalism disputed as pragmatic.
I am not disputing Stalin's nationalism as pragmatic, I am disputing that Stalin was in any way nationalist.

>>2200433
Man, work on your reading comprehension.

>>2200435
only because its been years since theyve uploaded

>>2200405
>The ending monologue is really a modern liberal manifesto. "Acknowledge the oppressor in ourselves (dont change it though!)". It is a call for identification with power, that you are the same as the people stomping on your face, i
There's a market for this. It performs the same function as Andrew Tate's grift, just for a different market.
>How does she not see it?
Not seeing it pays better.

>>2200431
real conspiracy heads already know. Interested to see how the discussion will change with the rise of China.

>>2200429
>2) Class struggle intuitive; revolution vs. propaganda. 3) Exploitation hierarchy misrepresents power gaps. Criticizes moral relativism, aligning with liberal guilt and authoritarian compliance.
What else can you expect from some petit-bourgeois grifter

It's really not that complicated, supranational elites want a caste society.

i'm watching it and my takeaway so far is that conspiracism is the nu-religion taking over the western masses instead of wokism

>>2200405
>The video gets more interesting from part 4: Ritual onward, where it tries to explore psychological roots of conspiratorial mindset. Particularly how it ties to certain victimhood mentality, and dealing with emotions of shame, guilt, humiliation … life of one Trump supporter, how he went from a normal person to mentally ill gun-nut after a medical situation forced him to quit his job, and had to rely on state and his wife for income, which made him retreat to a semi-fantasy world in an effort to make himself feel useful, like he is not a burden to everyone around.
I had a neighbor like this. His wife worked two jobs and he stayed at home, and I'm not sure quite sure what he was doing to make himself useful, but he lived in a world of right-wing conspiracy theorists, listened to Alex Jones a lot. He also seemed to drink a bit.

It's something psychologists and social science researchers talk about a lot. People who feel like they're not important contributors to society will feel VERY important if they see themselves as freedom fighters or – more importantly – knowledgeable insiders about conspiracies. It makes people feel like they have a purpose and are important, or is at least a shortcut to feeling that way. Couple that with losing your job because of inscrutable economic factors, that is existentially terrifying. But if lost your job because the WEF has a master plan to keep honest, hard-working folks like you down, because they want to give your job to somebody less deserving? Oddly comforting.

>>2200405
>First, I hate when libs make defend Stalin, because I have very little sympathy towards him … but I cannot think of anything that would warrant accusation of nationalism.
Yeah I don't see the "nationalism" here either. I'm not sure I wouldn't have been a "Stalinist" during that time if I lived in Europe or China or somewhere like that. What you can say about it is that it was highly militarized, tolerated no opposition, and did a lot of morally alarming things in the name of socialism and progress like targeted violence directed at broad sectors of the population according to social status. It's not necessarily because of something people did but because of who they were. And more directly, that involves some kid's dad disappearing one day because of his background, and that kid never sees daddy again, and they actually did that to people. That's what we're talking about when it comes to inflicting terror on class enemies. And are you willing to say that you'd do that? And if you are, it's like… who the hell are you, man? Maybe in conditions of extreme civil war or something.

But it also makes me think that people might have a hard time conceptualizing what the Soviet Union even ~was~ because it was quite different in some respects, and an attempt to create a really radical and different kind of society, and this was carried through during the Stalin period although it was also contradictory in many ways. I think it was a product of a particular time and place, so to be a Stalinist today is engage in a vulgar LARP in many ways.

>The reason why reactionary ideal are more popular than revolutionary ones isnt in their inherent comparative virality, but simply that the ruling class has a lot more resources at their disposal for propagandizing ideology than your local trotskyist group with their self-published newspaper.
That's a subjective condition, but there are also objective conditions. Like there's a thing in Marx where he was saying their own party could NOT come to power at the time (that was not his preference, but his own analysis of the actual, objective conditions). If it did, it would not be a proletarian thing but be forced to go along with a lot of petit-bourgeois demands. Also the left in general today has a problem because it cannot outflank the right on migration. Or at least it hasn't yet and doesn't really know how. The left might not be able to sustain itself "as the left" and adopt an anti-migrant position. It'd just collapse or benefit the right anyways which can say "see, those leftists agree with us." The left can attack oligarchy and inequality but migration is another consequence of roughshod globalization over the past several decades, which is an objective condition.

But that's unsettling to many people: The idea that you're on the left and you also CANNOT win in the circumstances. But I don't think the left should be afraid of being in a minority. Actually, it was a widespread belief among the Chinese communists during the Long March that they wouldn't achieve victory in their lifetimes.

If you don't believe in conspiracy you are not a communist.

>lmao the bourg just do that

No, they conspire to do that.

>"Socialism in one country" came to being under circumstances of there literally being one socialist country under siege by rest of the world's Great Powers, like what else do you want people to do, give up?
Socialism in one country is inherently anti-Marxist, in that it is literally the opposite of what Marx called for, which was permanent revolution. In that sense, Stalin was very plainly a revisionist.
Also you have misunderstood what both socialism in one country and permanent revolution means. Because neither practice is dependent on how many socialist states exist, nor is surrender the alternative to socialism in one country.

I can't be the only one who finds it funny how most of her core audience are "breadtube" anarkiddies and libertarian socialist types - when she herself has repeatedly and clearly stated she's just some kind of Keynes-loving social democrat with strongly progressive social views, whose ideal society is capitalism with a strong welfare state, and when she has played as characters who are mockeries of the worst stereotypes about both ML-ists and Anarchists.

>>2200405
> want to talk about the actual contend of the video, not internet drama.
Then give me a recap.

>>2200638
They’re a lib

>contrapoints shills hillary clinton and even has contacts with her, going as far as being part of some documentary or tv series with her
>contrapoints was raped by some other trans youtuber
>said trans youtuber received money from the british government to post glow content somewhere around the covid pandemic
>both of these channels are liberal garbage brain cancer inducing slop mega dogshit
that’s all that popped in my head when i read this OP, fuck you for posting this outside the sloptube general where i could have ignored it

>>2200640
>contrapoints was raped by some other trans youtuber
contra has publicly stated the toob wasn't the one who raped her
that said i think she's really creeped out by how the toob is skinwalking her, which is the reason she avoids contact with the toob

>>2200640
>where i could have ignored it
Don’t think this would’ve been the right call here. Usually for this slop, yes. But I think the libs are picking up on it. Think we should have eyes on this matter.

>>2200405
Brainrot

>>2200643
i remember before toob buffalo bill'd, they would be uncomfortably close to natalie. i never knew she was raped.

>>2200647
yeah i forget which video it was, but natalie revealed in one that she was raped by some other youtuber in the same cultural/social circle as her, but she has never revealed who did it or pressed charges
everyone just assumed it was the toob because natalie won't acknowledge or talk with toob anymore for some unclarified reason

>>2200648
there is nothing socialist about being anti-LGBT

>>2200648
Eat shit and die

>>2200648
No reason to be transphobic when you call her out for the thing that is actually hurtful to society namely being a shitlib who shills war criminals and millionaires to an audience of other lgbt kids and the politicially uneducated

>>2200648
Kill yourself, straggot.

Philosophy Tube has really stepped up the game with this one

>>2200643
>that said i think she's really creeped out by how the toob is skinwalking her, which is the reason she avoids contact with the toob
Don't really see the resemblance.
Contrapoints is more like my anonymous brandy guzzling auntie than the toob is like contrapoints.

>>2200909
lmfao

>>2200632
Yes, she‘s a liberal and much of her content about politics is as baseless and arbitrary of an analysis as you’d see with any other liberal. It also always comes intermixed with this eloquence and references to pop culture that makes it seem smarter than it is. She also always incorporates paychoanalysis in every video which is maximum pseudointellectualism.

>>2200962
>She also always incorporates paychoanalysis in every video which is maximum pseudointellectualism.
Why do you think so? For example, what psychoanalytical takes do you find objectionable in this video?

>>2200964
I haven‘t watched this video in full, but my criticism I made of psychanalysis as a whole applies to any particular psychanalytical claim. There was a thread by some Nazi on here who loves psychoanalysis where I thoroughly explained why psychsoanalysis is deprecated pseudoscience that modern psychology rejects. I can‘t be arsed to write the whole thing again.

One only needs to read a little Jung to see how psychoanalysis is much closer to occultism, alchemy, astrology than it is to being any kind of science or form of psychology

The existence of conspiracy is a fact. Its that simple. Any denial of that is simply your opinion, and it is wrong.

>>2200993
Yeah, that was the reason for split between Freud and Jung. Freud was a strict materialist, which is exactly why so many marxist thinkers also gravitate towards psychoanalysis.

>>2201017
What conspiracy?

>>2201018
you should be committed to a psychiatric hospital for thinking Freud was a materialist.

>>2201032
What, why? How exactly wasnt he?

>>2200405
>Second, while yeah, understanding marxism in depth is too intellectual for average schmuck, you dont need that to be a communist. Concepts like class antagonism are very easy and intuitive to understand - boss wants to make lots of money, therefore he pays you shit so he can keep more money, and he has to keep more money, because otherwise he gets driven out of market by competition. People get that. We can have further debate about why not just stay at level of social democracy, welfare state, why do we need planned economy, why cant system be reformed, but its not like an average liberal/conservative party voter is versed in neoclasical theory, so clearly they can get on board with a political project without concern for its details. The reason why reactionary ideal are more popular than revolutionary ones isnt in their inherent comparative virality, but simply that the ruling class has a lot more resources at their disposal for propagandizing ideology than your local trotskyist group with their self-published newspaper.

Point #2 is what gets a bug up my ass regarding how libs act towards political theory. Libs will rolls their eyes, sneer and act anti-intellectual towards the basics of the broader left-wing critique, smearing it as irrelevant academicism too esoteric for normies to understand….

…but then they'll watch a fucking string-theory-for-dummies video from Kurzgesagt.

Which fucking is it you goddamn theater-kid brained dipshits? Normies can either understand complicated ideas when boiled down into common sense language and is therefore a goal worth pursuing, or they can't. Pick one.

It's such an obvious double standard and it shows just how bad faith these people are.

>>2201098
libs want to lecture the working class class like their missionaries ministering to the poor. they dont want them actually be educated, or to gain any power of course.

>>2200405
contrapoints is satanic

Are you the same guy who posted a thread on contra on the trueanon sub? Anyways I think she lost all possible “respect” from me and bunch of other when she claimed thar revolutionaries and those who desire revolution are just jealous of the rich.

There isn’t much to discuss. She is a pseudo intellectual, who likely intentional misinterprets the left while pushing her brand of liberalism.

>>2201108
And that's a good thing

>>2201108
Your mother was satanic with me last night.

>>2200964
grounding anything in psychoanalysis is an alarm that should sound in your head. zizek really has poisoned the field of leftist thought with lacanian nonsense

>>2201108
it's just some makeup and costumes dude, it's not the second coming of beelzebub, belial and abaddon

>>2201071
Where in the material world is the id, the ego, and the superego? Where in the material world are dream symbols? Where in the material world are psychic drives? Can you even name one Freudian concept that is material in the least?

Jung literally hooked patients up to electrodermal activity apparatuses when he used word association to get to patient trauma/understanding of complexes immediately making him ten thousand times more materialist than Freud.

You deserve a lobotomy - the most materialist of cures.

>>2201122
Remove the high production quality of her videos and no one would bother with her drivel. We live under the dictatorship of aesthetics.

>>2201129
Her views are satanic. I’m not concerned with the look and costume.

>>2200405
Hes really fucking annoying but the topic is interesting.

>>2201138
You are aware 95% of Satanists are just very progressive atheistic liberals and demsocs who experienced severe trauma within their church and/or like gothic music and aesthetics?

>>2201148
I know they worship Satan. That’s all that matters

>>2201132
>Where in the material world is the id, the ego, and the superego?
Nowhere, they are theoretical constructs encomposing range of psychological processes, not literal structures.
>Jung literally hooked patients up to electrodermal activity apparatuses when he used word association to get to patient trauma/understanding of complexes immediately making him ten thousand times more materialist than Freud.
You absolute pseud, do you think putting on a labcoat makes someone a doctor too?

>>2201138
Isnt that good, after all Satans sin was rebelion, the whole moral of story of fall from heaven is that you shouldnt strive above your station and obey your rulers.

>>2201151
I fucking wish. Most self proclaimed Satanists are just atheists, deists, or apatheists with some edgy aesthetics. The ones that actually honor Satan as the liberator of mankind are few and far in between, and a good chunk of people in that category only see Satan as a vehicle for a particularly misanthropic breed of fascism.

>>2201151
>they worship Satan
They're atheists and it's purely symbolic, a cathartic inversion of Christianity, which is a repressive reactionary schizo cult that abuses millions of children.
Ave Satanas, Hail Lucifer. Hail to Cthulhu and the Flying Spaghetti while I'm at it. It's all a fiction.

>>2201148
satanic people are guilty of cringe crimes

>>2201163
Wrong I'm afraid, Satanic people are guilty of being too based. Accept the Truth Primordial (with three easy payments of 29.95 plus 9.95 shipping and handling) and you too can escape cringe

Of all religious groups to call out when discussing the topic of dualism, why did she call out the Manicheans, a extremely small gnostic sect with about 200 followers in rural China, and maybe as many followers who are Western LARPers?
Zoroastrianism and Mandaeaism are just as dualistic in their outlook and both are much bigger. I think a lot more people would understand what Zoroastrianism is vs Manicheaism.
You could also reference the Cathars or even how modern Christianity focuses on this battle between spiritual good and evil.
Manicheans are a valid target and are very dualistic and like all religions they are wrong… I'm not trying to defend them but it just seems odd to pick such an obscure little group to make your point lmao

>>2200485
>People who feel like they're not important contributors to society will feel VERY important if they see themselves as freedom fighters or – more importantly – knowledgeable insiders about conspiracies. It makes people feel like they have a purpose and are important
Qanon in a nutshell. Fascism is a delusional euphoria where LARPers pretend to be protagonists of history who are doing epic heroics like that incel in Taxi Driver. The glossy AI futurism of contemporary fascism is an interesting way of making their wormbrained hallucinations real
>>2200632
>she has played as characters who are mockeries
Contrapoints is like the Barbie movie: fascist nazi aesthetic that never fails to preempts the working class from having a single word against capital

>>2201174
Because her content is lazy
Under a communist government, ppl like contrepoints will have to repent through manual labour in gulags

>>2200624
Socialism in one country does not mean Socialism in *only* one country.

>>2201236
Yes she is KKKontrapointSS

>>2200405
So your criticisms of a liberal's video are tantamount to them *not being liberal enough*, LMFAO. God I fucking hate ultras so much. You're an idiot, you literally tick off every stereotypical box:
1. HECKIN' ACTUALLY EXISTING SOCIALISM WAS BAD, OKAY? FRICKIN TANKIES REMIND ME OF MY DAD MAKING ME DO THE DISHES, I HATE AUTHORITARIANISM AND ACTUAL MARXISTS. STALIN BAD. CONVENIENT THAT THIS PERFECTLY ALIGNS WITH EVERY WESTERN CHAUVINIST AND BOURGEIOSE MEMBER OF THE INTELLIGENTSIA'S POSITION AND THE GENERAL HEGEMONY OF REACTIONARY THOUGHT, BUT YEAH UHMMM STALIN BAD BECAUSE NOT ANARCHIST, OKAY SWEETIE?

2. YEA AVERAGE PEOPLE ARE REALLY FRICKIN' STUPID, UNLIKE ME, A GENIUS, NOT-RACIST FIRST-WORLDER WHO IS DEEPLY CAPABLE OF APPRECIATING THE ESOTERIC NUANCES OF MARXISM BECAUSE I'M GIFTED. W-W-WHAT'S THAT? IMPOVERISHED INDIANS WITH A GRADE-SCHOOL LEVEL EDUCATION ARE READING DAS KAPITAL IN NAXALITE COMMUNES? NO. THE AVERAGE AMERICAN IS JUST *TOO STUPID* (UNLIKE MYSELF) TO GET IT, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! HERE, WATCH YOUTUBE VIDEOS INSTEAD. THAT'S SUFFICIENT EDUCATION RELATIVE TO YOUR INTELLECT. THIS TOTALLY ISN'T A CIRCULAR, SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY BTW. VERY SYSTEMIC LOATHING OF THE UNWASHED MASSES. VERY MARXIST INDEED. YES. YES. GOOD.

3. HECKIN' ANIMALS VEGANISM LIFESTYLISM LIBERAL ETHICS BLAH BLAH FUCKING BLAH

KILL YOURSELF OP.

>>2201252
Oh, and let's not forget the extremely misanthropic notion that people are conspiracists only because their lives are otherwise worthless and devoid of meaning/purpose. Again, just such Marxist analysis. Great stuff, retarded liberal redditor.

>>2200405
The whole contrapoints character is a performative justification for when Natalie inevitably reveals that she is happily married with an actual neo Nazi and that we must donate our pennies and bodies to NATO. Fuck KKKontrippin’

I forgot the name of it but there is a psychological phenomena of people being more biased for a good story. The notion of a conspiracy is more interesting and escapist than the often very simple truth which many find too simple to explain something they don't understand.

He was a nationalist

>>2201296
qui est 'he', Étienne? merde, soit plus clair

>>2200405
yeah could have seen this video coming from a mile away. their deradicalization shtick goes both ways, they also think communism is radical(bad) and that people who point out capitalism as the problem are just jealous of her outfits. also says palestine is antisemetic.

>>2200964
the entire thesis that people secretly desire opression, that "authoritarianism" is even a thing that exists, that problems are in an individuals head and not how society is structured

i only watched the first 90ish minutes, the liberal had a very sneering liberal vibe and didn't get into the class basis for for fascistic and conspiratorial attitudes

>>2201252
Medication

>>2201360
You mean thesis of the video or psychoanalysis?

>>2201373
i mean the greater project of equating communism with fascism that was started by people like arendt, that basically states emancipation as incompatible with human nature that this psychologizing calls back to which makes the video into cheap red scare propaganda

>>2201376
I am not familiar with Arendt, but psychoanalysis rejects static transhistorical view of "human nature". Humans are born with set of base instinctual drives, but those grow and transform under the specific circumstances of individual life, which also arent really specific, because we all live in the same society at a given stage of civilisational development.

>>2200405
Im not watching 3 hour radlib video.
Here is the summary of what she said:
1. I'm gay and trans
2. Give me money
3. Change in the state of things is bad since I'm a liberal American and change hurts my people at this stage of history (the western bourgeois, I'm one of them).
4. Look at my outfits. I am sexy and I have good taste. I spend a lot of money on keeping my body looking good.
5. I am very smart and also very knowledgeable about culture.
6. Token self-depreciation for 2 minutes out of 180 minutes of self-aggrandizement
7. Nothing meaningful you didn't know before

>>2201382
>psychoanalysis rejects static transhistorical view of "human nature"
right but thats not how they use it in this context. they do the same psychologizing to excuse nazis too. rather than ford and ig farbin using slave labor because its profitable they were tricked by hitler into believing conspiracy theories because he was a charismatic psycho, which obscures that fascism is a result of the internal contradictions of capitalism itself. which is why contra gets state department funding for "cult" deradicalization, because according to this logic tankies are a dangerous cult like the nazi party and liberalism is the best we can do, so vote for hillary/biden!

>>2201397
Anon, have you ever read any psychoanalytical text? Because because that is absolutely what Freudian explanation of fascism is.

>>2201382
Arendt defended Heidegger in court and spent the entire 60s arguing for segregation.

i don't think anyone has ever been more full of shit than she was.

>>2201413
Arendt was in bed with Heidegger
She developed the bullshit ‘totalitarian’ theory, equating ussr with nazi germany
She was a vile bitch

>>2201387
8. I like sucking the dicks of nazis

>>2201408
*not
God damn it, I think I am dislexic.

>>2201304
La seule personne soumise au débat sur le nationalisme dans le post, Staline. Qui d'autre ? Il n'y a qu'un seul homme.

>>2201515
Pas que dans ce post. Staline est le seul Homme dans ce monde de chimpanzés.

>>2201174
?
manichean is like the go-to dualistic religion in english and is literally used as an adjective to describe such thinking

>>2201019
People are conspiring to destroy Gaza right now and have been doing for a very long time. They meet regularly to conspire to do it. In fact, conspiracy is a cornerstone of basically any military action

>>2201408
i said psychologizing twice and 'not how its used in this context'. i dont have a problem with psychoanalytic therapy, the problem is the combination of post-modern rejection of metanarratives that decenters class and considers marxism 'just another lens'. in so far as that is true different lenses have different purposes and the purpose of using a different lense is for understanding art or interpersonal relationships not for revolutionary change political economy. when you try to stuff political theory into a psychoanalytic reading it reinforces individualism and precludes communism. its the same thing as 'chemical imbalances' that redirect a rational response to living in a dystopic wasteland into a personal problem that can be fixed by thinking happy thoughts or numbing yourself out. and we can get away from the conspiracy theory accusations by just saying its a stochastic emergent property of late stage capital decline rather then big pharma meeting in a room to trick the workers, though they probably do that too. the actual conspiracy theorists are the libs that uphold great man theory to excuse capitalism, positioning trump etc as an exception.

>>2201518
Bordel

>>2200478
but hilldawg said

So like whats the hype around this lady? I used to see people post her vids like they were scripture or some shit.
She just have good lighting and film skills or something?

>>2201834
the hype around breadtube was a psyop

>>2200405
>I consider him a conservative (or reactionary, whatever word you prefer) compared to many of the bolsheviks he purged, was a chief culprit in insulating communist party from democratic process and turning it into a clique of bureaucrats, but I cannot think of anything that would warrant accusation of nationalism

Everything you mention about Stalin is just a conspiracy theory to somehow explain another conspiracy theory of Soviets committing holodomor and great purge, both of which didn't happen in reality

>>2200485
>What you can say about it is that it was highly militarized

USSR in 1930s had less troops than Poland, lmao

>tolerated no opposition

That's why people like Bukharin and Zinoviev were operating freely until they were literally found guilty of conspiring with fascists

>targeted violence directed at broad sectors of the population according to social status

Oh no, Stalin stole this man's right to vote! Because this man was a kulak!!!1

>And more directly, that involves some kid's dad disappearing one day because of his background, and that kid never sees daddy again, and they actually did that to people

How DARE USSR persecute people for their crimes?! Think of the children! They will now have blood feud with USSR and will have to deal with criminals' kids wanting revenge!

>so to be a Stalinist today is engage in a vulgar LARP in many ways.

Being a stalinist today is mostly pointing out to people that they believe in a conspiracy theory about how secret stalinist police was arresting people without mandate and how everyone went along with it because everyone was super scared.

You know how stupid "secret arrest warrant" sounds? Imagine policemen trying to explain to people that they are under arrest when secrecy laws make it so speaking of the arrest itself is a breach of secrecy laws? That's the real contradictory thing about stalinism - fucking idiots who believe in conspiracy theories of massive repressions hidden from everyone but in plain sight, and only some kinds of forest brothers passing down the lore about every fourth Ukrainian dying from hunger, and nobody noticing

Gotta start handing out a lot of missed the point awards for those anons who go
>b-b-but conspiracies are real!!!
Of course they are, but that's a world appart from conspirational thinking

>>2201878
you cant really separate the two if you use real conspiracies as an example of things that should be mocked

>>2201387
Can you actually engage with anything or are you just retarded

>>2200632
>she has played as characters who are mockeries of the worst stereotypes about both ML-ists and Anarchists.
Who among us hasn't?

Matt christman has already said all there is to be said on conspiracy theories

how do i trick rich crakkkers to give me money, these breadtubers make a half million a year off the backs of the working class

what the fuck would you do with half a million a year, where's the breadtuber breakfast program wtf

>>2201980
>what the fuck would you do with half a million a year
Quota filling and self care

Not going to watch a three-hour youtube video because I've come to an understanding that it's all awful. I've seen them all, like that one example of the Trump voter was covered in a Chapo clip. I'll just comment on what you're saying. Not going to debate or anything just dropping my thoughts here.

>conspiracies
Regarding the psychological roots of conspiritard mindset, I don't really the buy the theory it's all traced to a very small number of traumatic events like losing a job or having no healthcare. It certainly doesn't help but I'd wager a bet that it's not the case for the vast majority. For this, I think the critique of ideology covers it much more succinctly.

The easiest example are preppers. Most of them get into it not because they got raided by cops or whatever, but rather there's this implantation within gun culture that immediately accosts people when they ask for a tip on their first gun purchase. The community and/or seller will start asking them questions about home intrusions, SHTF guns, a .22 for small game when you're innawoods and so on. There are various systems in place to support this ideology, like guntubers, forum's common consensus, store owners ect all working together unconsciously to reproduce it. I think this also explains pipelines into fringe, almost paradoxical conspiracies like libertarianism to holocaust denial to neo-nazism. America particularly has this all-encompassing ideology of the lone-wolf, Darwinian sink-or-swim individual, accompanied by easy access to firearms. I think this is what makes America such a hotbed for the craziest conspiracies. It's so rooted in our culture, that people CRITIQUING conspiracies have this shocking tendency to call conspiracies a "psyop" which comes full circle and reinforces the same conspiracies that they're allegedly against.

>defense of Stalin
This one is interesting to me because not too long ago I was reading essays from Theodor Adorno on television and near the beginning he perfectly sums up breadtube and video essays in general. He basically says that increasingly, audiences are promoting themselves to the status of a "critic", but they don't actually criticize anything other than how well it fits into what their ideological expectations are. You see in show reviews that spend 3 hours going over the linear progression of the narrative, as they expect a traditional narrative, even if there might be a little stylish "twist" to it like a nonlinear narrative.

I relate this to Contrapoints because her apparent defense of Stalin is an unconscious expression of her authoritarian personality. We all know she made herself a clown with her enthusiastic support for Hillary Clinton, who is no doubt the biggest Stalinist in the democratic party. It makes complete sense when you think about it, with her kill list, violent imperialism, tireless work to fuel the prison industrial complex, unhinged paranoia and the fact she is very disliked in the party but just manages to hustle her way to top. In a way, she has to defend Stalin to defend her love for Hillary Clinton.

>but how was it nationalism?
How was it not? The Soviets had less and less power as the Bolshevik influence continued. They admitted this, as the phrase "all power to the soviets" was a PROMISE that they'll disband themselves once everything is on the right course. They never did.

Stalin and Lenin both ordered the extermination of ethnicities like the Ukranians (Lenin) or Poles (Stalin). Stalin even conspired with the Nazis to split up Poland prior to their joint invasion. If the USSR was just a loose coordination of communes, why did they invade and destroy the anarchist Ukraine? No, they were building up the nation, even with propaganda like love for the motherland and so on.

>Stalin did not order Russian chauvinism
He ordered the forceful relocation of entire ethnic groups. I know Lenin wrote about the right for self-determination but it was in relation to weakening the Russian state. If you read a while, you'll come to realize that Lenin was a radical opportunist. The State and Revolution basically defends anarchism in an ancom variety, but then he pursued State Capitalism and ignored everything he wrote there and then wrote Left-wing Infantile Disorder against the people he was citing in the previous book, hilariously.

This isn't about Lenin being a monster or anything and I understand the pressures in that time. I just think you can't criticize Stalin when he was the natural evolution of Leninism. Trotsky would have probably ran it better, but he still showed all the same ideological beliefs as Stalin like the USSR being a worker's state, abandoning the Spanish Civil War, and literally being the commander for massive purges within Lenin's USSR. Lenin started the third International for the singular purpose of achieving a successful Russian revolution. Internationalism for him was just helping defeat Russia, and the second he achieved that, he sued for peace with the western powers he could and isolated themselves. Not for no reason, but this is what happened. There's a mythological Lenin most people talk about, and then there's the real one who was more complex.

>the ruling class propaganda
I don't think the ruling class specifically need to invest in propaganda efforts to maintain the social order. Gramsci was the first mainstream communist to recognize this. It's mostly supported through the minds of people within it, worker and all and comes through in the stuff they create like media because the ideological lens they see the world through is seen as absolute. The best example of this is when people start listing "socialist" shows or music. "Protest" is absorbed and becomes another choice on the market. This relates to your point about exploitation.

>oppression hierarchies.
This is idpol and I never bought into the Maoist fantasy of third-worlders fighting the revolution for you. It always came off as liberal racism, like "noble savage." It's generally inoffensive except when they start larping as the Taliban online. The conservative ideology peeping out from here is your insistence on "ethical" consumption. This is fully part of capitalist ideology, where the consumer chooses a product that serves to make them feel better, or chooses some alternative lifestyle "code" to live by, like Veganism. This is best represented with that one soda company that labeled themselves as "pro-Palestine" and for $20 a 12-pack you can buy some "moral" soda. This is everywhere in our lives, even when you choose to listen to "woke" music or whatever. I remember Squid Games being called a socialist show and all I saw while watching it was rich people being cruel to people who are poor because of their own bad choices, and that we should strive to treat them more politely. One of the characters are in the game because they embezzled money from their company.

I really liked that you saw her defending her own authoritarian mindset through that video. She hides it by putting up a sheet of transgender ideology in most of her videos, but a critical viewer can see a complete package.

>>2201995
>This isn't about Lenin being a monster or anything and I understand the pressures in that time. I just think you can't criticize Stalin when he was the natural evolution of Leninism. Trotsky would have probably ran it better, but he still showed all the same ideological beliefs as Stalin like the USSR being a worker's state, abandoning the Spanish Civil War, and literally being the commander for massive purges within Lenin's USSR. Lenin started the third International for the singular purpose of achieving a successful Russian revolution. Internationalism for him was just helping defeat Russia, and the second he achieved that, he sued for peace with the western powers he could and isolated themselves. Not for no reason, but this is what happened. There's a mythological Lenin most people talk about, and then there's the real one who was more complex.
You start good but then you critise lenin for…not being nationalistic enough? Destroying imperial russia was on eof the best things he did. Ending involvement on WWI against "geopolitiks" was the promise that the bolsheviks made.

>>2201980
>these breadtubers make a half million a year off the backs of the working class
its content made by bored middle classers meant to be watched by fellow bored middle classers, the only way they are making money "off the backs of the working class" is from their weak leftoid pretenses

>>2201980
Shaun is the only decent breadtuber because he doesn't dickride the democrat party and supports palestine. All of the rest are either mid, shit or Agent Konshinski

>>2200870
yeah, i'm talking about them

>>2201887
What real conspiracies did she use as an example? I mean ok, 9/11, but specific examples she gave was holograms and controlled demolition, not that US government let happen or actively helped carry out the attack.

>>2201995
>I don't really the buy the theory it's all traced to a very small number of traumatic events
That is good, because nobody put any such theory forward.

>I relate this to Contrapoints because her apparent defense of Stalin
She did not such thing, she mentioned him offhandedly once. Things you pointed out about him make him an evil person, but not a nationalist. Stuff like forceful relocation was not done for the sake of Russian ethnic purity, but to destroy separatist movements.

>I don't think the ruling class specifically need to invest in propaganda
I didnt necessary mean conscious cynical propagandising, but that the ruling class owns everything (not literally), and as such reflects its ideas in everything.

>>2202106
I would really like to hear what do you think is a job of an average breadtube viewer and how much they earn.

>16 hour video from an autogynephile trying to obfuscate his class relations and motivations

Who cares(Rule 7 - disruption with reactionary content)

>>2200405
>understanding marxism in depth is too intellectual for average schmuck
lol confirmed for never reading marx

>>2202243
>I mean ok, 9/11, but specific examples she gave was holograms and controlled demolition, not that US government let happen or actively helped carry out the attack.
thats exactly the problem, or did i miss her saying that lihop is a reasonable position given the evidence

>>2202286
meanwhile Lenin be like "you can't understand chapter 1 of capital without reading Hegel's Science of Logic"

>>2202309
there is literally no philosophy reading necessary to understand any of marx, what few hegelian shit marx used was only as a framework

>>2202298
No, you didnt. Fact that despite mentioning 9/11 conspiracies numerous times yet never making a distinction between reasonably likely and whacky ones was something I considered a big omission on her part, but she also didnt explicitly say anything against it, so her personal opinion on the topic remains a mystery. If I had to guess on purpose, she probably realised no matter what it would be divisive, so she didnt say anything.

>>2202328
to me the omission is to conflate conspiricism with anti-capitalism, almost to the point of directly calling it an anti-semetic conspiracy to point out the power of banks and big business

>>2202339
She doesnt though, exact opposite, she conflated focus on people rather than systems with conspiricism.

>>2202341
immediately before this she presents capitalism and communism as equal possibilities for the cause of all problems, so 'particular political order' is not actually a critique if you are using it to dismiss people talking about who actually does control government industry media and banking(capitalists), she knows she is positioning 'eat the rich' as being about individuals even though she knows marxism is a systemic critique and not about individuals. otherwise the purpose of the video would be to present marxism explicitly as a materialist alternative to conspiratorial thinking

instead her thesis is that people are just messy and we dont really know anything and people who do take action are jealous resentful bigots and dangerous cult psychos who need to be deradicalized and vote democrat to save her from trumpo

>>2202316
I just think it's funny what extremely different opinions we see in the communist movement regarding how accessible Marx is

Engels asked Marx to write a summary of capital for workers "before some Moses comes along and botches it"

Lenin thought you had to read Hegel's Science of Logic to understand even just Chapter 1 of capital

Entire university courses have been constructed around popularizing (or vulgarizing) Marx and making him easier to understand

but then I run into anons on leftypol who are like "capital is ez any single mother with 3 children could flip through it in an afternoon and understand it"

>>2202344
I think u should be allowed to criticize her but like if you just aren't gonna watch it and imagine what she says what are you adding to anything

>>2202360
I hate this attitude where people have to over complicate Capital. And by people who can't even reproduce the meme relationship between Marx and Hegel lol. People just need to read the book, not try to learn dialectics from it. Hell, Marx removed the Hegelian language before it was published.

>>2202538
>People just need to read the book, not try to learn dialectics from it
Literally what would be the point of reading that book then?

>>2202840
Are you fucking serious? Capital is some philosophy book.

>>2202538
>I hate this attitude where people have to over complicate Capital.
so it's not even slightly remarkable to you that people as prominent in Communism as Engels and Lenin found it complicated; And not merely complicated, but complicated to the point of thinking workers needed a summary (Engels) or that you had to understand Hegel first (Lenin)?

>>2202847
thats not why marx and engels felt the need to write a summary

>>2202847
>or that you had to understand Hegel first (Lenin)?
also lenin said plenty of stupid things, this being one of them lol

>>2202857
i think its actually pretty reasonable. it would be to say you have to read him, but its possible to understand hegel without reading him, and its also possible to do it backwards by reading marx to understand hegel. but if you understand one you understand the other, and its true that not understanding one means you dont really understand either

>>2202360
i wouldn't say capital is easy or that short, but i do think the general ideas as well as dialectics are pretty simple. the vast majority of intensive study into it is actually just unlearning other stuff

>>2202842
Methodology is basically the only reason why anyone would read Capital. If all you want is basic explanation of how capitalism works, you can just read 20 page Wagelabour and Capital or some other summary.

>>2202360
>>2202847
Capital is easy to understand if you're STEMlet brained.
Humanities word-lets have problems with it, because they can't think systemically. Hence, the reputation.

The irony being that stemlets don't care about philosophy, let alone socialism, while humanities people are least likely to understand dialectical materialism, because their whole field of studies either tries to ignore it, or refute it.

>>2202896
interesting. i was actually thinking the opposite but i was stem first so idk. still i feel like marx is de-stemming but not into a humanities way. i just find that other stem people struggle the most with the philosophy because while its systemic its not mechanical

>>2202915
Maybe

I my experience stemlets not so much fail to understand marxism, as they simply dismiss it outright and refuse to engage with it
To them, it's just more continental quackery that's incompatible with their anglo positivism, + the stigma of having allegedly caused the deaths of a billion trillion people and failing to invent the iphone

>>2200435
>>2200438
>>2200870
kill yourself transphobes

>>2202896
>muh STEM-humanities false dichotomy mongering
i hate it when people do this shit.

>>2202360
People in Marx’s time seemed to understand it.

>>2203292
the dichotomy is like racism
it's not scientifically real, but socially real

>>2202896
>capital
>diamat
the mark of the pseud. diamat was invented after marx, capital is about historical materialism

>>2203304
it isn't socially real. if you can understand the very complex language of philosophy, the language of math and natural sciences is nothing in comparison. like, stemcels have this cognitive dissonance where they know that the point of their disciplines is to describe things in the simplest of terms, but at the same time thing that they can handle complexity

>>2203308
relax, I just made 7 typos in a row, obviously I meant historical materialism as any true marxism-understander would :)

>>2203315
marx debunked philosophy, learn to code

>>2203292
>>2203315
>>2203332
>marx and engels: science lets us figure out nature and philosophers only obfuscate reality
<leftards: marxism is a philosophy :)
groan

>>2203308
theyre the same thing
>>2203346
its both
>>2203292
they are right about most stemlets being positivists, its exactly what i was going to say. its not all of them but there is an overabundance of midwits in stem that think intelligence is memorizing facts and really smart people just know all the facts. while stem can be systemic, the average undergrad does not understand the system and only knows a collection of disjointed data, they have no ability to innovate and just become a cog in a machine because education under capitalism is also built around this. breaking past this and coming to marxism as your first holistic undertanding of a system can be extremely challenging for someone whos entire ego and life is founded on being rewarded for spouting trivial novelties.

>>2203366
historical materialism is dialectical

>>2203332
>>2203346
>>2203360
>dialectical *
>not a philosophy
>same as historical materialism
did you "learn" marxism from twitter and leftypol.org?
you claiming to dismiss philosophy and using the term dialectical materialism at the same time. you have no idea what these words mean nor what the marxist critique of philosophy was, or you wouldn't be using the word dialectical anything

>>2203369
dialectics do not exist according to marx's critique of philosophy. dialectical materialism was invented by joseph dietzgen - marx praised it as politically useful (do I have to explain the implication?) and it was adopted by the socialist parties of europe, but it is completely unrelated to capital and the marxist critique. to say that this or that is dialectical is to engage in philosophy

>>2203374
please waste no time on cockshott

>>2203370
dialectical materialism is some retarded mystic invention by mls and has nothing to do with marx lmfao

>>2203384
how is that a refutation of what I said you imbecile

>>2203375
cockshott is essential if we consider the possibility of having existing socialism and not just fancy book clubs

>>2203346
that's not what my post >>2203292 was saying you dishonest piece of shit

>>2203299
not even remotely true. the sooner you stop telling yourself that capital is an EZ breezy read for everyone else just because it's (allegedly) EZ for imageboard neets in an echo chamber with infinite free time, the sooner you'll realize exactly how much more organizational work you should be doing.

It took 5 years, 1867-1872 for Capital to sell only 1000 copies in Germany. I stand by my point. It was not voraciously consumed by working class people working 12 hour shifts in industrial factories before going home to their 4 chimney sweep children, it was purchased by political economists and intellectuals of the 1st international in a limited circulation, as well as enemies of Marxism like Bohm-Bawerk. Perhaps later on in the East German Republic it was consumed voraciously by workers because it was prescribed as part of a standard school curriculum, with courses built around it, and lots of pedagogical work being done to make it accessible, but in Marx's life time the book actually received the best sales in Russia. But still, those "best sales" were merely 3000 copies. This was not a widely circulated book outside of explicitly political circles until the 20th century, and it certainly wasn't read widely by non-partisan workers until actually existing socialist states made it part of an educational curriculum.

>>2203395
he got this idea from article related

https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2020/04/28/please-waste-no-time-on-hegel/

>Some responded that dialectical materialism was invented by Marx not Hegel. That is wrong, it was invented by another German proletarian philosopher Joseph Dietzgen

Cockshottists: YOU'VE WASTED YOUR ENTIRE LIFE ON PHILOSOPHY GO BACK TO SCHOOL (TUITION PRICE INCREASING) AND LEARN LINEAR ALGEBRA AND COMPUTER SCIENCE NOW!!!!!!

Hegelians: YOU'VE WASTED YOUR ENTIRE LIFE ON LINEAR ALGEBRA AND COMPUTER SCIENCE GO BACK TO SCHOOL (TUITION PRICE INCREASING) AND LEARN READ PHENOMENOLOGY OF SPIRIT NOW!!!

>>2203458
anyone saying capital is an easy read which any literate person can understand has either not read capital or has not understood it
forget the average worker, most university students (even professors) will have trouble.
most of the CPSU and CCP themselves did/do not understand it

>>2203497
people who are good at understanding things, or people who imagine that they understand things, are often bad at teaching things, because they think everyone else should/can/will understand things instantaneously, like them, with no intermediate pedagogical content to ease them in

>>2203466
you don't need to go back to school to learn any kind of mathematics or computer science. Cockshott even puts his books online for free.

>>2203502
>Cockshott even puts his books online for free
where?

>>2203461
>>2203466
cockshott is a retard too lol you can tell who does NOT read marx when rejecting philosophy is some sort of fringe idea to them lmfaoooo

>>2203458
>it wasn't popular therefore it is hard to understand

>>2203497
>all the successful communists? brainlets. me? an intellectual

it is dense, not hard or complex. marx goes slow and methodically, giving examples and preempting possible misunderstandings, basic counter-arguments and/or malicious misinterpretations

the only legitimate readability complain is that it requires a long attention spam. people read that this is the most important critique of capitalism ever and then they expect hot takes and grandiloquence but the text actually focuses mostly on the rather boring basics and their intricate details, slowly building up to interesting but still relatively humble conclusions

>>2203461
weird projection

>>2200485

>And more directly, that involves some kid's dad disappearing one day because of his background, and that kid never sees daddy again, and they actually did that to people. That's what we're talking about when it comes to inflicting terror on class enemies. And are you willing to say that you'd do that? And if you are, it's like… who the hell are you, man? Maybe in conditions of extreme civil war or something.

I am of course, your enemy, as always. t. Eamovulgaros

One thing to note however is that when eliminating the parents its imperative to eliminate the children (unless they are extremely young, like babies, and can be shipped off anonymously to an orphanage).

This is necessary to guarantee prevention of them from carrying out retaliatory vengeance when they grow up (which makes sense for them to do, from a basic psycho-biological urge point of view).

>>2203502
no you just need to have infinite free time and be a NEET. i.e. not be an actual working class person with children i.e. most people

>>2203458
yeah im gonna say it. the secret is that marxism is way closer to blanquism then people like to admit. it really is a minority imposition, and thats a good thing. not everyone has to read capital because not everyone is part of the vanguard.

>>2203821
Why has the vanguard failed to manifest anything?

>VANGODENT
<3.57K subscribers

>>2203823
<1.2M views 14 years ago
Not bad

>>2203823
You're not Vangod, you're not Ra Diggs. You're not a Spartan. You ain't ready to die or go to Supermax, and decades in solitary confinement like Ra Diggs and Chapo until you die in 2073.

>>2203634
>it wasn't popular therefore it is hard to understand
you've gotta be missing the point on purpose. it was neither popular nor easy to understand. even the people who read it, and assisted in writing it, like Engels, understood it. If Lenin is telling you that you need to read Hegel to understand the first chapter of capital, do you think he's saying that to flex? Or do you think he's dead fucking serious?

>the only legitimate readability complain is that it requires a long attention span
which is something people have even less of in 2025 than in 1917. Youtube has metrics on video essays. Every single video essayist says the majority of their audience do not make it through the first half of their videos. And these are the vulgarizers and popularizers. How much worse must it be for actual dense books? Get real.

Would you rather die or live in solitary confinement with no outside communication or window until you die half a century from now? I think death must be better than the perpetual oubliette right?

>>2203834
trvke

This is Chapo's life now, I guess they afforded him a slit window, but they won't let him speak to anyone.

Which are worse, Althusserian spastoids who substitute Marx with the theoretical equivalent of eating razorblades, or the "Marxist-Humanist" idiots who are just frazzled Maoists?

>>2203581
They used to be on libgen until it shut down. Pretty sure they'll be on Anna's Archive.
>>2203718
You don't need an infinite amount of free time to study and you don''t need to be a neet. Having children might make it more difficult, but it has been done before. Getting a job that requires little effort or attention - clerk, watchman, etc allows you time to study while getting paid. These days you can feed in books and bibliographies to an AI and have a tutor you can ask questions.

anti conspiracy people are the most pernicious brand of shit lib.

You literally cannot have an understanding of the world without understanding the power and nature of the conspiracies which manage capital. Its that simple. Your analyses has a gaping hole in it. A reality shaped hole you cannot fill with all the facts and logic trees in existence

Of course HE dresses like a Satanic priest all while wokescolding HIS audience for not believing the WEF has their best intentions. Contrapoints is just a fascist with a drag fetish

BadEmpanada TRVKE just dropped

>>2207475
Destroy her anus, Culinary Decomposition

>>2204933
There was a time after the first Trump win when every retart lib on the internet would tell you that the concept of a Deep State was a schizo conspiracy theory.
It was not a good time.

>>2207522
I think they still call it a right wing conspiracy theory?

I just watch contrapoints because she's hot and i wanna choke on her cock tbh