/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Beria oversaw the nukes and computer development, and also did nothing wrong

If he were one of the traitors they wouldn't have killed and slandered him

>>2202970
Stalin was the one who sold out the USSR

>>2202976
Lev Davidovich, is that you? How did you survived the ice pick?

>>2202970
red pill me on Beria because i can't possibly imagine that he was as evil as he was presented in that movie

>>2202984
>NKVD bad -> Head of NKVD evil
The logic is simple as that

>>2202984
I always ask people for any vredible evidence of berias alleged sex crimes and I don't get any

>>2202988
>He was, the only problem is that in our bourgeoisie moralist society we brainwash our children like you to still believe in concepts like evil.

Holy Lenin, you here preach that current aestetic of people (morality) is undesirable to have but ain't you assuming in the first place that the opposition to those moralistic urges presupposes its own morality/judgement. Yeah now evil is good and good is evil.

Like , why killing bourgeouise and sparing them would be any different if those are both simply the choices in the manifold? For many Beria's actions were undesirable to gaze upon, and by saying that them perceiving that as undesirable is undesirable, what would be the difference?

>>2202988
insane bait posting
the bait posts are getting better every day keep it up Langley

>>2203014
>>2203035
Don't feed the glowie/troll.
Ignore and mass report him for "pedophilia / child rape apologism".

>>2202989
Wasn't his backyard filled with children's skeletons with fucked up pelvises?

>>2203072
I say this and look like this

>>2203090
According to whom

Also, if you look at pictues of his moscow house, it's hard to imagine him digging a grave there

>>2202988
this is up there with the leninhat's "put the bullet in the bourgeois baby's brain" baitpost

Do you really need to ask OP? It was a system, where the only way to advance, without risk of getting purged, was constant ass kissing.

it's really weird they cast Buscemi as Khruschev and Beale as Beria when it should have been the other way around. At least in terms of their physical appearance

>>2203871
Young Buscemi was boinkable. But, ya. Your right overall

>>2202970
Because they all sucked Stalin off and did his bidding

>>2202970
b-because he was dead

>>2202984
>>2202989

Beria was likely a rapist

<According to the testimony of Colonel Rafael Semyonovich Sarkisov and Colonel Sardion Nikolaevich Nadaraia – two of Beria's bodyguards – on warm nights during the war, Beria was often driven around Moscow in his limousine. He would point out young women that he wanted to be taken to his dacha, where wine and a feast awaited them. After dining, Beria would take the women into his soundproofed office and rape them. An American report from 1952 quoted a former Muscovite as having "learned from one of Beria's mistresses that it was Beria's habit to order various women to become intimate with him and that he threatened them with prison if they refused"

<Vladimir Zharov, head of the Department of Forensic Medicine at Moscow State University and then the head of the criminal forensics bureau, said a torture chamber existed in the basement of Beria's villa and that there was probably an underground passage to burial sites.

Considering they found a burial site at Beria's own home where the victims who were buried were buried naked it looks incredibly suspect on Beria's part.

However, the main source that comes of Beria being a mass rapist comes from Simon Montifiore, who went on to write "Stalin: In the court of the red tsar". There's criticisms of Stalin and then there's exaggerated tales to tell a good story. Of course what this does is muddy the waters.

What we can hold somewhat credible is the soviet archives that held a 40+ page dosier on Beria- including the fact that Beria had drugged and raped his victims.

https://www.theintelligencer.com/news/article/Russians-Unveil-Files-on-Police-Chief-10527395.php

The only argument that follows is usually along the lines of anti-Kruschev seething (via Grover Furr) or seething over Montiofiore- they're right to be skeptical of the latter, but it gets a bit silly when dismissing the former.

>>2203924
>Beria was likely a rapist
>Source: An article published by a western glowie
Fuck off retard

one explanation i've read for the salacious rumours of beria being an alleged rapist, is that he, as the head of the secret police, had many beautiful young women in his direct employ, working as spies
now if you're some rando guard or whatever, and you see all kinds of beautiful young women walking in and out of beria's office, or getting in his car, etc., you might start thinking some things.
add to that the ethnic component: beria was big fat ugly georgian. and in russia, men from caucasus suffer from a racist stereotype of being "sexually unbridled" and seducing white (slavic) women, similar to the stereotypes applied to jews in germany, black people in america, and nowadays, arabs in europe.

so if you're a slav who's mildly racist through cultural osmosis, and you see this ugly fat georgian in a high posiition of power constantly in proximity of young beautiful slavic women, there is only one place your mind will likely go to

>>2204001
Huh. That makes a LOT of sense, actually.

also, if you're, like, the second most powerful person in your country, why would you be a violent rapist or a murderer
you'd have no shortage of women trying to fuck you for career reasons, or at the very least it'd be a "CEO and secretary" type of rape, not violent kidnapping and physical rape followed by murder, as depicted in the rumours.

specifically the violent rape part seems to me like it has a racial element in "protecting the dignity of the russian women". you can't have beria JUST be a sex pervert who used his position of power for sex, you have to have him be a violent rapist murderer
the soviets were weird about sex, the official position was that prostitution didn't exist in the USSR, for example

Tbh can Soviet archives be fully trusted for the Stalin-era, if you instigate de-Stalinization based on a secret speech full of accusations about Stalin, then sooner or later someone's going to open the archives to check the veracity of the claims, isn't it possible that some of the documents in the archive were falsified? Does it really make sense to have everyone know that Beria was a serial rapist including Stalin, but he was inexplicably still in Stalin's good book despite many rumours of his betrayal to the British and everyone just tolerated him because they feared Stalin's wrath, but then made sure this was all written down and stored for safe keeping?

btw, this is beria's house in the center of moscow, where the skeletons were allegedly found. in 1993 and then again in 2011.

Imagine beria huffing and puffing somewhere in the backyard, burying bodies.

also, can't someone just go to where his dacha was or whatever, and check for the alleged rape dungeons?

>>2204008
>>2204004
>you'd have no shortage of women trying to fuck you for career reasons
He could've just been a degenerate. Besides, if the West were going to fabricate a story like that for propaganda reasons then it would be a lot more effective to do so about a person who wasn't caught and executed by the Soviet government, since that would mean that the Soviets actually brought him to justice for his crimes.

>>2204036
on the other hand, dead people can't defend themselves, especially ones who lost a political struggle and have no allies
and the accusation itself does a good job of slandering the entire soviet system.
one of the strangest things about the soviet leadership is how they constantly undermined the peoples' faith in their own government by first declaring someone a hero, and then the moment they died, slandering them as a murderous degenerate sex pervert

normally, politicians should understand that you don't shit where you eat

>>2204036
>>2204042
Maybe the Soviets shouldn't have been lying all the damn time damn.

also, there's western propaganda claiming that lenin died from syphilis, and that stalin raped a 13 year old girl
those didn't stick because they were not unanimously convenient for everyone

>>2204042
>one of the strangest things about the soviet leadership is how they constantly undermined the peoples' faith in their own government by first declaring someone a hero, and then the moment they died, slandering them as a murderous degenerate sex pervert
Definitely one area where the Chinese were more competent. Deng may have been a political enemy of Mao's closest associates and gone in the opposite policy direction, but he had the good sense not to denounce Mao as an evil idiot.

>>2204008
> the official position was that prostitution didn't exist in the USSR, for example
it didn't. that happened later after Gorbachev nuked the economy to set the stage for the restoration of capitalism.
<but but but western tourists had sex with hotel maids
those were kgb spies trying to perform counter-intelligence work on obvious western glowies you idiot.

MLs when the great man is a socdem:

>>2203977
>the russian government is a western glowie
If you want to talk about the intelligencer being a fed, you're more than welcome to do so- but facts are facts.

The soviets archives have evidence on him.

>>2204764
The archives are full of revisionist reactionary content
If he was so bad Stalin would not have let him get anywhere near power, he wouldve been purged. Anti beriaism is for the glows

>>2204764
The archives are full of revisionist reactionary content
If he was so bad Stalin would not have let him get anywhere near power, he wouldve been purged. Anti beriaism is for the glows

>>2204774
>If he was so bad Stalin would not have let him get anywhere near power, he wouldve been purged. Anti beriaism is for the glows
Why did he let Kruschev get near power? Doesn't seem like his judgement was infallible.

>>2204774
It's almost like Stalin wasn't a dictator and it wasn't his choice or responsibility

>>2204774
>>2204775
>If he was so bad Stalin would not have let him get anywhere near power
And yet he did. You're acting as if Stalin wasn't infallible.
Stalin allowed for homophobic persecution and banned abortion, despite there being information provided on the former on how it was perfectly fine to be gay.

Stalin was also complicit in the ethnic deportation of crimean tartars, ethnic chechneans, volga germans and koreans- all of which in part was carried out in part by Beria.

These policies and actions alone should tell you he's the great man you think he is.

Besides as >>2204783 points out, Stalin wasn't a dictator. The soviet system was run collectively and he didn't always get to pick and choose who he got to work with.

>>2204784
*he's not the great man you think he is

>>2204764
>the russian government is a western glowie
after 1991 might as well be

>>2204784
>despite there being information provided on the former on how it was perfectly fine to be gay.
Information that Lenin would not have accepted either because it genuinely was believed to be a mental illness and a sign of bourgeois degeneration. Homophobia was in every society it wasnt until the 1960s where gay rights began to have momentum and slowly began being accepted
>Stalin was also complicit in the ethnic deportation of crimean tartars, ethnic chechneans, volga germans and koreans- all of which in part was carried out in part by Beria.
Vast majority of those Wartime deportations against a genocidal fascist force hellbent on the destruction of the USSR and a pacific imperialist power with ambitions to take over Siberia. Beria was effective in housing them. Your acting like these were mass killings and done with genocidal intent. Also which Soviet archives prove Beria's crimes? Keep in mind destalinization included demonizing Beria as a spy and a sex criminal with no evidence. There is a reason he got shot with no trial. Even the most intense political purges in the 1930s at least had a trial unlike what happened to Beria. Also accounts that said that Beria begged for his life like a cowardly dog is straight up propaganda to depict him as a rat. There is a reason why even Russian historians are shifting their views on Beria in a similar way to Stalim because of the amount of garbage that was placed on them post-1953 for political purposes.

>>2204802
>Information that Lenin would not have accepted either because it genuinely was believed to be a mental illness and a sign of bourgeois degeneration.
Despite gay rights being legalised under Lenin.
Despite various scientists making studies including ones tied to the soviet union even concluding that there was nothing wrong with being gay- studies which Stalin dismissed.

>Vast majority of those Wartime deportations against a genocidal fascist force hellbent on the destruction of the USSR and a pacific imperialist power with ambitions to take over Siberia.
So collectively punishing entire civilian populations and dismantling their autnomous soviet republics was justified? This is on par with Israeli's thinking all Palestenians are hamas agents, or all Japanese and Itallians were spies for the axis powers and sending them to internment camps.

>Your acting like these were mass killings and done with genocidal intent.
Ethnic deportations are genocide dude.
And as for intent, the Koreans were suspect of being a secret fifth column- of the Japanese empire- an empire, mind you, which was colonising them, enslaving them and genociding them.

https://www.sciencespo.fr/mass-violence-war-massacre-resistance/fr/document/soviet-massive-deportations-chronology.html

The order was clear:
>On 21 August 1937, the Council of People's Commissars of the Soviet Union adopted the decree No. 1428-326сс which ordered the deportation of the Soviet Koreans from the Far East, and determined that the process should be completed by 1 January 1938

>The Council of People's Commissars and CC of the VCP (b) hereby order: To prevent the penetration of Japanese espionage to the Far East region undertake the following acts:

>deport all Korean population from the border regions of the far east… and relocate it to the south—Kazakhstan region, areas near Aral Sea, Uzbek SSR

not suspects of Japanese imperialism- ALL KOREANS. That is an act of collective punishment on ethnic grounds, which if you know anything about genocide- is a war crime and an act of genocide itself.

https://www.thegenocidereport.org/dispatches/collective-punishment-is-a-war-crime/

The same intent can be found within the Volga Socialist republic whose entire population was suspected as being collaborators with the Nazis. But hey don't take my word for it:

>On 29 August 1964, 23 years after the start of the deportation, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, by its Decree of 29 August 1964 No. 2820-VI, abolished sweeping accusations against the German population living in the Volga region. A decree that completely lifted restrictions on freedom of movement and confirmed the right of Germans to return to the places they were expelled was adopted in 1972.

>"All the more monstrous are the acts whose initiator was Stalin and which are violations of the basic Leninist principles of the national policy of the Soviet state. We refer to the mass deportations from their native places of whole nations… This deportation action was not dictated by any military considerations. Thus, already at the end of 1943, when there occurred a permanent breakthrough at the fronts… a decision was taken and executed concerning the deportation of all the Karachay from the lands on which they lived. In the same period, at the end of December 1943, the same lot befell whole population of the Autonomous Kalmyk Republic. In March all the Chechen and Ingush peoples were deported and the Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Republic was liquidated. In April 1944, all Balkars were deported to faraway places from the territory of the Kalbino-Balkar Autonomous Republic and the Republic itself was renamed the Autonomous Kabardin Republic."
-This was stated by Kruschev.

>Beria was effective in housing them.
thousands died due to the transfers, dude.

>Beria wasn't offered a trial
>where's the evidence!
I gave you the evidence which confirmed the finding of Beria's guilt. But as for there being no trial, here's a transcript.

https://www.marxistleninists.org/Soviet%20Archives/Beria%20Case/Beria%20Case%20Plenum.pdf

"First Main Directorate in Beria's office in the Council of Ministers. While carrying out this task, looking through the contents of safes and other places where documents might be stored, we came across things and objects unusual for office spaces. Along with the documents, we discovered large quantities of all sorts of, what can I call it , aĴributes of women's aĴire. Here are brief excerpts from the inventory that I want to make public. Let me remind you and repeat that this is in the office in the Council of Ministers, here: women's tracksuits, women's blouses, women's stockings of foreign brands - 11 pairs, women's silk slips - 11 pairs, women's silk tights - 7 pairs, lengths for women's dresses - 5 lengths, women's silk kerchiefs, handkerchiefs of foreign brands, children's silk slips, some more children's things, etc., a whole list. I think that what I have published is already enough . We have found numerous leĴers from women of the most intimate, I would say, vulgar content. We have also found a large number of items of a debauched man. These things speak for themselves, and, as they say, no comment is required."

"Here is what this same Sarkisov testified: "I know of Beria's numerous connections with all sorts of random
women. I know that through a certain citizen S. (allow me not to mention the last name) Beria was acquainted with S.'s friend, whose last name I do not remember. She worked at the House of Models. Later, I heard from Abakumov that this friend S. was the wife of a military aĴaché. Later, while in Beria's office, I heard Beria calling Abakumov on the phone and asking - why hasn't this woman been jailed yet? In addition, I know that Beria cohabited with a student of the Institute of Foreign Languages, Maya. Later, she became pregnant by Beria and had an abortion. Beria also cohabited with an 18-20-year-old girl, Lyalya. Beria gave birth to a child with whom she now lives in Obruchnikov's former dacha. While in Tbilisi, Beria met and cohabited with citizen M. After cohabiting with Beria , M. had a child, whom, on Beria’s instructions , I, together with my aide Vitonov, took and handed over to an orphanage in Moscow . I also know that Beria cohabited with a certain Sophia. At Beria's suggestion, through the head of the medical unit of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs Voloshin, she had an abortion. I repeat that Beria had many such relationships. On Beria's orders, I kept a special list of women with whom he cohabited. (Laughter in the audience.) Subsequently, at his suggestion, I destroyed this list. However, I saved one list . This list contains the names, surnames, addresses and telephone numbers of more than 25 such women. This list is in my jacket pocket at my apartment. (The list Sarkisov is talking about has been found, it contains 39 women's names. - Sh.)"

>>2204823
And again, they found bodies under his house.

>>2204781
>Why did he let Kruschev get near power?
His friendship with FDR made him soft

>>2204823
the chechens deserved it

>>2204842
Which government did you think performed the excavation you retard?

>>2204883
Putin's attitude towards the Stalin-era has generally been to rehabilitate it for nationalist ends though. It doesn't really fit with their agenda and past behaviour to demonize Beria.

I can't seem to find any mention of Beria being a serial rapist on Russian Wikipedia and the English Wikipedia uses random anti-Communist slop as a source (not the sources those books would have listed, presuming they have sources) and as for reports of bones being discovered, the sources are either "citation needed" from a BBC documentary (again, no mention of what sources that itself used) and a single article from the Scottish Herald that is probably the lightest report on the discovery of a mass grave that supposedly proves a long held rumour that I've ever seen
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12574528.grim-reminder-of-beria-terror/

>>2204976
>Putin's attitude towards the Stalin-era has generally been to rehabilitate it for nationalist ends though.
Only in the like, last ten-15 years, no?

Imagine calling the USSR "Trotskyite shitlibs"
Just move to the DPRK already brother

>>2204823
>Despite gay rights being legalised under Lenin
Lenin got rid of the tsarist code, he didnt legalize nor advocated for gay rights. Let's also remember the USSR formed in 1924 right when Lenin died. Lenin had homophobic tendencies as well, but died before he can play an active part in Soviet policy.
>So collectively punishing entire civilian populations and dismantling their autnomous soviet republics was justified?
It was the safer option with a badly handed card. Many of the tatars for example were collaborating with the Nazis due to German promises. That gets a situation where there is no knowledge of potential collaborations and a fascist army marching in doing mass purges across the land.
>This is on par with Israeli's thinking all Palestenians are hamas agents, or all Japanese and Itallians were spies for the axis powers and sending them to internment camps.
Israelis are genocidal zionists hellbent on wiping Palestinians off the map, these situations are not related. Also the American situation was no where close to the situation on the Eastern Front. Japanese troops were not on American soil and were not a majority population anywhere except Hawaii with substantial Japanese population. The US also did not lock up Italians and Germans to the same degree as the Japanese. It was a racial policy which is classic for the US.The Soviet Union had the German army on its soil and actively looking for minorities to collab with and wiping out civilian population on the way for living space. We are comparing a war of life and death on the homeland vs a war where we are pushing an ocean away. Tell us seriously these are comparable acts.
>Ethnic deportations are genocide dude.
Thats a redundant of the situation at hand but if you want to call it a genocide when much of the population was collaborating with the Nazis go ahead.
>the Koreans were suspect of being a secret fifth column- of the Japanese empire- an empire, mind you, which was colonising them, enslaving them and genociding them
Look at the modern ROK state and the amount of Japanese collaborators running the government. There are many descendants to this day. Also the Japanese colonization was actually successful and by the 1930s Japan had subdue much of the Korean independence movement. Thats why Kim Il Sungs guerrilla war was notable because he was the few networks still actively fighting.
>not suspects of Japanese imperialism- ALL KOREANS. That is an act of collective punishment on ethnic grounds, which if you know anything about genocide- is a war crime and an act of genocide itself.
I dont believe you are seeing how desperate the situation was and you would not be able to act to do the most minimal damage to protect socialism. The Koreans in the far east being moved was to prevent another Marco Polo incident for Japan to use to take Karafuto and the Far East. The USSR had to deal with an expanding Japan and a Fascist Germany aiming for them. Its great you can look at this decades later but you have to view it from a politburo point of view and the actions needed to save the union while still adhering to socialist principles.
>The same intent can be found within the Volga Socialist republic whose entire population was suspected as being collaborators with the Nazis. But hey don't take my word for it:
Are you fucking kidding? It wasnt suspected the great majority did. Do you know why there are barely any Germans in Eastern Europe anymore despite being millions of them? Eastern Germans were notorious for collabing with their Germanic brothers and in many cases were heavily involved in coordinating Nazis across EE. From Romania to Ukraine to Slovakia to Russia they collab with the Nazis. And the reason is because the Nazi vision would have made them the ruling class and they were enticed by it.

>>2204823
>-This was stated by Kruschev.
Great source……..
>thousands died due to the transfers, dude.
In a middle of a war where those collaboration killed tens of thousands of Jews and Soviet citizens. Imagine the body count if the deportations did not happen and a chunk of those collaborators are on the backline as the Red Army moved westward. I dont think you understand why these decisions were made and how tough they were to make. Also your definition of genocide is close to the definition that the Chinese are genociding the Uyghurs because they are genociding their culture
>I gave you the evidence which confirmed the finding of Beria's guilt. But as for there being no trial, here's a transcript
What evidence? You gave western sources and Khrushchev(a political rival) who wanted to demonize Beria and Stalin as much as possible. I mean look at this shit:
>Beria gave birth to a child with whom she now lives in Obruchnikov's former dacha.
Lmao where is this child and where is the modern day descendent to have dna evidence? Again, keep in mind that the two Georgians were heavily demonized by Khrushchev's clique during his rise to power including stories like Stalin said Yakob cant kill himself right or that Stalin waited to see who stopped clapping first to see who is a traitor. Also take note of this: >>2204993 a lot of the rumors comes from western sources or Khrushchev's clique who to the surprise of none:lied to gain leverage and power. These are not good sources to assume Beria as a sex monster or Stalin as a psychopath who genocidally killed tens of millions

>>2204823
>gay rights being legalised under Lenin.
not really consciously though, simply repelling the old tsarist code as a whole and not recriminalizing it immediately

>which Stalin dismissed
you say that like it was his personal crusade. Soviet assembly voted for it in the new family code, I dont think stalin really cared

>So collectively punishing entire civilian populations and dismantling their autnomous soviet republics was justified
sadly yes, and its delusional to deny there was massive collaboration and infiltration among some populations. The "punishment" was not sending them out with no resources or putting them in camps though, they were given land and opportunities. And yes, also after ww2 various german civilian communities across eastern europe put there by the nazis were expelled, do you think thats genocide too?

>not suspects of Japanese imperialism- ALL KOREANS. That is an act of collective punishment on ethnic grounds, which if you know anything about genocide- is a war crime and an act of genocide itself.
and yet korean communist revolutionary were given weapons training and support and I didnt hear them cry they were oppressed by ussr

>This was stated by Kruschev
giving credit to secret speech fuck make you a stupid fool

>here's a transcript
<vague moral affairs with 0 actual violence
the man was basically accused of being a pervert for having women clothing, fucking with married women, having sexual letters with women and fucking many women with no intent of building a family/encouraging abortions. Its actually pretty funny you think your quote is somehow damning while crying about lgbt rights.

>>2203924
>the main source that comes of Beria being a mass rapist comes from Simon Montifiore
>krushev
lol. lmao even
so you have a well know glowie anti communist liar, and a political enemy well-known for lying hard about his political enemies to discredit them (after their death ofc). Great sources.

>>2205104
>not really consciously though, simply repelling the old tsarist code as a whole and not recriminalizing it immediately
This is an anti-communist myth that stalinists endorse because it conveniently whitewashes decisions made by soviet leadership and judiciary and handwaves away the rollback of progressive revolutionary social gains in the 30s. The originators of the soviet legal system and penal code absolutely consciously repealed those laws, and excludes any such prohibitions from new ones. Consciously removing references to sodomy and legalising homosexuality had already been a topic of discussion among russian jurists before the revolution with the the 1903 draft legal code prepared by the russian liberals already having done it. The Soviet commisariat of justice initially headed by the Left SRs based themselves on this and consciously drafted a penal code legalising sodomy in all cases that weren't forced/between adults and under 14s, and the Bolsheviks who ran the commisariat after 1918 and reassessed and redrafted the penal code between 1918 and 1922, made the same decision again. There is ample evidence of soviet jurists and public health officials like Health commissar Semashko concerning the acknowledged and intentional legality of homosexuality and discussion on it's role in revolutionary society.

>>2205108
the funniest shit about simon sebag montefiore is that he was on the epstein plane

Beria was a true aryancunny1848

>>2205108
I think you forgot the part where I said
>The only argument that follows is usually along the lines of anti-Kruschev seething (via Grover Furr) or seething over Montiofiore- they're right to be skeptical of the latter, but it gets a bit silly when dismissing the former.

I'm going to be honest, I'm more likely to believe a man who was alive and knew Beria and Stalin personally than Montifore.
So if you're going to put words in my mouth at least put in the right ones.

>>2205087
>the majority of the population were collaborators
No the fuck they weren't. Stop lying.
https://www.rbth.com/history/333384-how-germans-fought-for-ussr


>Over 33,000 ethnic Germans were serving in the Red Army at the time of the invasion of the country by the Wehrmacht. In the first months of the war, Soviet propaganda demonstratively emphasized the difference between the Nazis and “our Germans”, publishing numerous articles about the latter’s heroic actions, of which there were many.

>Dozens of Soviet Germans fought just in the Brest Fortress, which sustained the first attack by the enemy on June 22, 1941: Major Alexander Dulkayt, commander of the 125th Rifle Regiment; Lieutenant-Colonel Erikh Krol of the Medical Service; as well as lieutenants and privates. Sergeant-Major Vyacheslav Meyer participated in the first successful counterattack, which marked the beginning of the organized defense of the citadel.

>For almost a week, the 153rd Rifle Division under the command of Colonel Nikolai Gagen held back units of the German 39th Motorized Corps on the outskirts of Vitebsk. For another 18 days, the division continued to fight after being completely encircled, until, having almost completely run out of ammunition and fuel, it managed to break through to its own side. For this feat, it was one of the first to be awarded the designation of ‘Guards’ division, while the colonel himself was awarded the Order of Lenin.

>Anti-aircraft gunner Genrikh Neyman shot down four enemy bombers and an article about him was published in the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper on August 28, 1941. By a cruel irony, the decree of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet ‘On the resettlement of Germans residing in the Volga region’ was issued on the very same day. It changed the destiny of the German ethnic minority in a fundamental and tragic way.

As I stated before, there's nothing that justifies collective punishment, and considering there were ethnic germans who, in the thousands, were fighting the Nazis- this BTFO of your claim that they were all "Nazi collaborators".

Fuck off, genocide apologist.

>>2205364
>you forgot the part where I said
I didnt forget it, I find you silly to trust the words of the political enemy that shot him as an argument, especially someone who we know peddled absolute bullshit on stalin for political reasons. If you want to believe him thats your business, but its retarded and dont expect others to take you seriously.

>>2205372
>muh genocide
are you seriously gonna push the "poor germans were genocided in ww2" line? for real?
just fuck off moron, you could have had a sensible discussion about means and end in difficult situations with only bad choices but you chose to be an outrageous retard

>>2205087
>The USSR had to deal with an expanding Japan and a Fascist Germany aiming for them.
Probably shouldn't have moved the Koreans then since Korea had an active communist-dominated anti-Japanese guerilla movement, and the majority of PLA fighters in Manchuria were actually Koreans at one point. Maybe there was some justification for the Tatars or something but the deportation of Soviet Koreans was entirely nonsensical, especially since it happened before the war. If anything the Soviets could have been using their ethnic Korean population as a conduit to Kim Il Sung's resistance movement.

>>2205493
>especially someone who we know peddled absolute bullshit on stalin for political reasons. If you want to believe him thats your business, but its retarded and dont expect others to take you seriously
This coming from the guy defending a rapist and a man who committed ethnic deportations.

>are you seriously gonna push the "poor germans were genocided in ww2" line? for real? just fuck off moron, you could have had a sensible discussion about means and end in difficult situations with only bad choices but you chose to be an outrageous retard
You straight up said the majority of the population were collaborating with them. I proved that they not only weren't, but were knowingly fighting against said Germans. you're the one defending collective punishment and the actions of Beria, not me.
The only "moron" here is you.

>>2205498
Honestly why would they give a fuck about koreans?

>>2205513
>This coming from the guy defending a rapist
Saying this with no proof other than anti-communist sources and a political enemy who wanted to legitimize his power
>a man who committed ethnic deportations.
<Think about the Germans where the majority collaborated with the Nazis
<Think about the substantial number of Crimean Tatars who collaborated with the Nazis
<All during wartime on Soviet soil with a genocidal army
You are comparing the deportations to something like the Trail of Tears where the natives were sent into poverty, while this did not occur during the Soviet deportations
>You straight up said the majority of the population were collaborating with them.
The majority did. This was common across Eastern Europe not just the Soviet Union.
> I proved that they not only weren't
You didnt
>but were knowingly fighting against said Germans
not the majority. The Germans gave exceptional treatment to Germans wherever they were in the East and whether due to occupational pressures or genuinely believe in the Third Reich's Greater German Reich collaborated with the Germans until the army and themselves were kicked out. The collaborations is what got them kicked out in most Eastern European countries.
>you're the one defending collective punishment and the actions of Beria, not me.
Yeah it would have been better that the quarter of the Crimean Tatars were collaborators who also aided in the slaughter of Jews and other citizen which killed tens of thousands of people and perhaps more if the deportation did not happen. Imagine trying to profile collaborators on enemy lines and active sabotaging. It was a harsh decision and yet they still gave support to the deportees unlike previous MoPs that would leave you with nothing like the Japanese internment camps.
>The only "moron" here is you.
ironic coming from a naive fool based on your "sources".

>>2204993
seems like a typical case of wikipedia citation washing

unsubstantiated rumour -> somebody "reports" on the rumour -> wikipedia cites report

whereas in russia beria being a sex criminal is merely a salacious rumour, but in the west it's now a "credible claim"

>>2206714
There's actually a term they use for this on wikipedia, i forgot what it is though and that's really bugging me.

>>2205702

I am just going going to come out and say it: Stalin was not a totalitarian genocidal dictator. And this was precisely the problem.

Europeans and their offshoots are most degenerated/degenerating people on earth (not that the rest of mankind isn't degenerate or degenerating, simply not as advanced in their denerstion). Feudal and capitalist relations have mutated them into a monstrosities.

Hammarubi's Code should have been applied to the Austrians and Germans during and after the war and was not. Deportation was so lenient, so soft handed, so far from what was necessary I consider a criminal act of negligence by Stalin and the Soviet government.

t. Balkan Jew (and before I am accused, the Palestians should do to Israelis what was and is done to them)