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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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The so called "Prime Directive" is an ideological equivalent of US exceptionalism and a way to retreat into a moral high ground. Basically:
>Dying from curable diseases for U
<Us having the cure for everything
>Suffering from crazy reactionary and outdated forms of socio-political tyranny for you
<Us having the enlightened form of governance
But most importantly to a communist:
>Solveable but eternally ongoing problems of scarcity for U
<Infinite material abundance for us
…all of this in the name of a dogma ("prime directive") all of this while we could elevate you into a higher socio-economic and scientific/technological level, but "sorry," we are "not allowed" to do that for you, cuz… reasons…

I almost wonder what an ACTUAL communist (internationalist, galactic) Star Trek would look like. No shit it would involve the "Federation" enlightening all those fascistic/theocratic/etc. natives to a higher productive level and therefore eliminating all social ills.

But I'm told again and again by American "comrades," that this is what peak communist show looks like, cuz they vet to feel better by that dogma's limitations:
>Sry, we can't cure you and elevate your society onto our level….. CUZ REASONS, LOL

In any case, I can't wait for the Chinese version of this show, wherein our daring space-faring crew just do the materialist and sensible thing.

Mind you, for labour aristocrats TO THIS DAY this is what enlightened FALC behavior looks like.

What a fucking joke, 🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣!

Star Trek is kino, you uyghur.

The Prime Directive is just a plot device my dude, you're reading way too deep into this

>>2204307
Kino = makes my fantasies go, makes my mammalian glands wet

Kino =/= is rational, desirable, egalitarian, etc.


I agree. I just really had enough with burgers shilling Star Trek as this FALC example.

It's not.

>>2204309
>deciphering the ideological connotations of this "THE MOST COMMUNIST SHOW FROM THE USA EVER" is wrong
>Just enjoy the popcorn
Drooling moron-tier, tbh

>In any case, I can't wait for the Chinese version of this show, wherein our daring space-faring crew just do the materialist and sensible thing.
Wandering Earth 1 & 2

USA "FALC":
>We have "FALC" and you won't get it for ten thousand years cuz you need to suffer for… Uhm… Reasons
(Even TNG makes fun of itself here, several times they show that the Prime Directive is a counter-productive and inhumane dogma

Chinese FALC:
>We have FALC. You want FALC? You get FALC.

END OF FUCKING STORY.

SUCK MY DICK JEAN-LUC PETTY-DICK DICKARD!

The Prime Directive is the opposite of US exceptionalism but okay.

I think the example of the Federation working without it is an episode from TOS where Kirk goes to visit a less developed planet and finds that the Klingons are giving advanced weapons to some of its people, which is basically leading to genocide for everyone else. In the end the federation decides it has no choice but to give advanced weapons to the "good" natives to balance it out and basically looks right at the camera and says intervention in Vietnam is justified and necessary.

So the PD is basically putting a moratorium on (technologically) advanced cultures from interfering with less advanced cultures, which isn't necessarily a bad thing considering we see the results of the Cardassians "sharing" the advantages of their superiority with Bajor and the results aren't pretty.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Prime_Directive

Actually, the prime directive is a way to avoid undue influence of technologically advanced species from inadvertently sending another species which isn't ready for contact with alien life, down a non-materialist path, one which is disjointed from their own natural development.

The Prime Directive is basically reverse Juche and is very materially based on experiments.

In the Star Trek universe, many times when advanced species would give new technology to fledgling species, even inadvertently such as by forgetting a piece of tech down on their planet, it is observed to cause extremely bad effects, because the military industrial complexes or owning classes of those societies end up rapidly closing the gap and taking over with impunity due to these unintentional Promethean events.

Furthermore, the Prime Directive does not prevent anyone from helping species which explicitly ask for help. It only involves interference with species not even advanced enough to make contact on their own

The Prime Directive prohibits "first contact" specifically. If the less advanced species in question makes first contact, the Prime Directive no longer applies

I get it that you want to make a thread, but don't assume your initial analysis is already correct

File: 1743368517584.jpg (18.03 KB, 271x331, WorfTNG.jpg)

Worf (of Enterprise):
>Computer, isolate proteins harmful to Klingons andaterialize for me a Trillarian Soup
*beep boop*

(Trillarians suffering from holocaust hunger):
<Can we have the same, plz?
NO!

Prime directive, BITCH

>>2204329
>The Prime Directive is the opposite of US exceptionalism but okay.
Indifensible.

>>2204333
You made this up, quote the episode number. Replicators would not even have been programmed with this "Trillarian Soup" recipe if they had not ALREADY made friendly first contact with the "Trillarians", meaning the Prime Directive does not apply

>>2204329
>>2204329
>Uhm, akshually, the Prime Directive isn't genocidal and reactionary in its consequences… cuz … like… Vietnam, man!

Imagine if the US shared all its tech with the Vietcong instead of napalming it back to the dark ages?

>>2204332
>In the Star Trek universe, many times when advanced species would give new technology to fledgling species, even inadvertently such as by forgetting a piece of tech down on their planet, it is observed to cause extremely bad effects, because the military industrial complexes or owning classes of those societies end up rapidly closing the gap and taking over with impunity due to these unintentional Promethean events.

An example from Voyager is a planet comes into contact with a probe sent out by pre-federation Earth containing instructions for all the post-warp technologies they'd developed up to that point, like the antimatter reactions that give them basically free energy. The aliens adopt it and rush it into being, only for there to be a cataclysmic fuck up along the way which turns their planet into an irradiated wasteland and would have lead to their extinction if Voyager hadn't come along.

There's another from TNG where the Enterprise is set to initiate first contact procedures with a species on the cusp of developing warp travel, but it gets derailed because the population is riddled with reactionary tendencies and the planet's president decides they just aren't ready after the discovery of an alien (Riker) threatens to tear their self centered society apart.

>>2204332
>undue influence
WARNING!!

NUCLEAR LIBERALISM DETECTED!!!

It's literally the fucking same relation between Star Craft Wars Trek with the "uncivilized natives" of such and such planets and the Enlightened Federation.

We already know from human history – and 90% of encountered species in TNG are "humanoid" – that sharing tech and science leads to fucking great results vs. embargoing countries/nations/ideologies/planets in the name of holy scripture leads to fucking humanitarian disaster.

Way to out yourself as a labour aristocrat, btw.

>>2204343
The process you're describing is what the US did with south Vietnam. That's what you're advocating for.

>>2204355
Yes let's just call everyone who disagrees with me a liberal, that makes my point, also let's use bold red letters, that REALLY makes my point

GNU/Linux = communism

"Prime Directive" = Microsoft

>>2204359
>cultures/civilizations interacting and influencing eachother is VERBOTEN

>>2204368
>>cultures/civilizations interacting and influencing eachother is VERBOTEN
That's not the Prime Directive

I get it you're bored on a Sunday and want to shitpost but take it to /siberia/ if so

>>2204357
>You are advoceting for sharing tech instead of napalm, therefore you are pro-vietnam!

>>2204355
The federation does in fact share it's technology with less developed planets if those planets have already made contact with the interstellar community in the past, and if those planets themselves request it. Bajor is an example of this, where strictly speaking it doesn't meet the technological threshold for contact from the federation (which seems to be the attainment of warp travel), but having been occupied by a warp capable civilization for the better part of a century, the damage has been done, and at Bajor's request the federation sends aid and advisors to help it back on its feet, and with the goal of eventually integrating into the federation.

It's just that the federation's policy isn't to go around initiating this exchange unilaterally with cultures that aren't materially or culturally prepared for it.

>>2204306
So true bestie they should have engaged in mass colonialism, it's what Marx would have wanted.

>>2204373
Do you think the US should go to sentinel island and force the inhabitants to adopt American culture?


Can we address the fact have incredibly misogynistic and racist both Original Series and TNG are?

>>2204378
Give us your tech and medicine, you moron

>>2204306
>but "sorry," we are "not allowed" to do that for you, cuz… reasons…
The reason is that they can't predict what effect such an intervention would have on the development of that society. If anything it's a firm barrier against any sort of white man's burden civilizing mission or meddling in their internal affairs.
>>2204343
>Imagine if the US shared all its tech with the Vietcong instead of napalming it back to the dark ages?
If Western countries followed the prime directive they never would have gotten involved in Vietnam at all.

>>2204374
The US in fact shares tech and intelligence with the Golden Billion

>>2204382
There, you did it. You addressed it. Grats.

>>2204389
You're drawing a false dichotomy here Anon. The relationship between the Federation and the societies that fall under the prime directive are less like the relationship between the US and Mexico and more like the relationship between the US and uncontacted Amazon tribes. Do you think we should barge into those societies and start giving them iPhones and shit?

>>2204386
>they can't predict what effect such an intervention would have on the development of that society
Giga-cope. Again, 90% of "aliens" in Star Wars is humanoid. Sorry Star Craft.

You are literally denying the basics of Marxism and diamat in favor of liberalism.

>>2204395
>We should give the North Sentinelese AKs and and combustion engines if you disagree then you're a liberal
Is this your opinion?

>>2204393
>The relationship between the Federation and the societies that fall under the prime directive are less like the relationship between the US and Mexico and more like the relationship between the US and uncontacted Amazon tribes.
Giga-cope no.2.

Like 0.1% of all star trek episodes are about contacting a hunter gatherer society.

Sorry, Sabo, but Star Craft is reactionary.

It's funny when an OP is so annoying that everyone feels compelled to argue with them.

File: 1743370183548.jpg (573.45 KB, 2500x1875, Use of Weapons (2).jpg)

>>2204306
>I almost wonder what an ACTUAL communist (internationalist, galactic) Star Trek would look like. No shit it would involve the "Federation" enlightening all those fascistic/theocratic/etc. natives to a higher productive level and therefore eliminating all social ills.

>>2204398
>Like 0.1% of all star trek episodes are about contacting a hunter gatherer society.
You're missing the point, I'm not talking about hunter gatherer societies. Societies that fall under the prime directive are those which have not yet discovered warp travel or subspace communication, i.e. those which are not even capable of interacting with the Federation of their own accord, or even knowing it exists. Amazon tribes would be the closest equivalent of that in the real world. Their relationship with the Federation is nothing like the relationship between first and third world countries. When societies develop to that point on their own, then the Federation contacts them and shares technology for their benefit.

>>2204386
>The reason is that they can't predict what effect such an intervention would have on the development of that society. If anything it's a firm barrier against any sort of white man's burden civilizing mission or meddling in their internal affairs.

Yeah, it's still somewhat frustrating though. Like there's Tasha Yar's planet which is overrun with rape gangs and civilization has pretty much ceased to be, and the federation doesn't do anything about it because the planet explicitly seceded from the fed (iirc). So this human colony is just fucked because it has no government or representatives to ask for help because of this retarded civil war.

And it seems like the non interference principle applies even to members of the federation that contravene other Fed principles like personal autonomy and self determination, like that time Riker falls in love with a mono gender individual that decides she wants to be female, only for her culture to force her into conformity with no legal recourse. Or that planet that forces its citizens to commit suicide at 60, even if it fucks them up by killing the scientist that's trying to save their planet from destruction.

>>2204397
You immediately retort to "muh weapons" – but who gives a single FUCKING shit about "sharing weapons?!"

Share the fucking replicator tech, which immediately eradicates hunger, homelessness, 99% of sickness, etc.

Hell, "rig" the fucking replicator so that it can not replicate AK47s (I literally don't care).

We already see what this is about!!!! You bought into the meme, that elevating primitives immediately and logically lead to a self-destructive planet. Literal liberalism.

Marxism is about developing the productive forces, and going to from near zero to infinity is pretty fucking Marxist sounding to me, you lib.

>>2204395
>90% of "aliens" in Star Wars is humanoid.

So what?

>>2204402
Sorry, not familiar w that franchise. Plz gib me tldr

Thx

>>2204403
>Societies that fall under the prime directive are those which have not yet discovered warp travel or subspace communication
Similarly, Marx and Engels talk about how we TOTALLY shouldn't bring a higher stage of development to their contemporary Africa, cuz… OH, WAIT!!!

>>2204405
>Marxism is about developing the productive forces
XD

>>2204405
>Share the fucking replicator tech, which immediately eradicates hunger, homelessness, 99% of sickness, etc.

Replicator tech is a weapon in the right or wrong hands. It can make infinite bullets and bombs just as easily as it can make food and medicine.

>>2204404
If we are talking about concrete episodes… There's the one where Worf's adopted brother saves an entire civilization CONTRARY to the Prime Directive (pbuh) and just gets away with it cuz… it makes fucking sense it the face of dogmatism of the Federation.

>>2204405
>We already see what this is about!!!! You bought into the meme, that elevating primitives immediately and logically lead to a self-destructive planet. Literal liberalism.
Historically liberals argued the exact opposite of that, that it was the duty of "civilized" countries to control and uplift uncivilized ones.
>Marxism is about developing the productive forces, and going to from near zero to infinity is pretty fucking Marxist sounding to me, you lib.
If you had any understanding of historical materialism then you'd know that such a sudden and rapid transformation in the productive forces would throw any society into total chaos, as its institutions would be completely unequipped to handle a radically transformed economic base. Just dropping replicators on a planet where none existed would inevitably lead to revolutions, civil wars, and general chaos and bloodshed just like the industrial revolution did in the real world.
>>2204410
Except people in Africa are in contact with industrialized nations, meaning that they wouldn't fall under the prime directive.`

>>2204402
Critiques and so on of the concept being discussed do weave themselves into some of the plots, some generally good stories too.
Read them. It'll be a better use of your time than any of this.

>>2204418
>Historically liberals argued the exact opposite of that, that it was the duty of "civilized" countries to control and uplift uncivilized ones.
No anon that was simply the narrative given. You cannot possibly be so naive as to take it at face value, can you?

>>2204407
So all the arguments that hinge on the "ALIENNESS" and "unknowability of our actions" fly out the window immediately?????

Just give them the fucking tech, holy fucking shit, and they will stop praising their fake gods?!?!

This is Marxism101 vs Liberalism

>>2204410
Obviously a fictional example, but Things Fall Apart is kind of about just that. The advancements that the Europeans bring to Africa have benefits as well as detriments, but the end result is that the society that was is inevitably destroyed, for good and for ill.

>>2204413
Read the fucking Manifesto, kid

>>2204422
My point is that non-interventionism with less developed societies is not under any circumstances a liberal idea.

>>2204414
Already adressed above. Even if you phase out the possibility of replicating weapons you get almost immediate planetary unification.

This is basic Marxism, btw, and you resist it so fierce


Wonder why?!


Honestly just imagine what would happen if aliens dropped a few replicators in the middle of the US. Glowies would inevitably seize them, the bourgeoisie would monopolize the technology and use it to establish an unassailable 1000 year burgerreich that would benefit only them.

>>2204418
>Historically liberals argued the exact opposite of that, that it was the duty of "civilized" countries to control and uplift uncivilized ones.
But you are (un?!)intentionally conflating what these actors said and thought they were doing with what they were actually doing?

Holy fucking labour aristocrat hell, my man

>>2204419
I'm rewatching the Original Series and like 70% of the episodes in season1 aren't from GODdenberry, but were written by actually talented sci-fi/fururists of the day, and GODdenberry merely directed those.

>>2204433
No, I'm saying that your position is closer to liberalism than simple non-interventionism. Leaving people alone is the opposite of what liberals did.

>>2204417
Yeah, and there are several others where the PD is contravened for both good and bad reasons, because as you point out a strict dogmatic adherence to it doesn't make sense. But then you've got that one episode where some proto Vulkans are about to discover scientific rationality, which almost goes out the window when they see the magical Federation tech.

>>2204419 (me)
IIRC read Player of Games and Use of Weapons.

>>2204429
>Even if you phase out the possibility of replicating weapons you get almost immediate planetary unification.

How do you think that would work out on this planet if such a thing were to occur?

>>2204402
>>2204439 (me)
ph nevermind those were two of the three you posted i just thought it was a random selection reeee-

>>2204436
>Marxism is about leaving ppl alone
Lmao, lol even

>>2204437
That's a really good episode basically promoting empiricism… If we are talking about the same where Data loses his memory and discovers that he inentionally poisened the village with uranium

>>2204306
they literally only mention the prime directive right before they say 'but this time is different guys!'

>>2204440
Totally fair question. It would fucking obliterate Earth's bourgeoisie and capitalism within decades.

Seeing someone starve the uneducated shares their food. The educated philosophise on what may go wrong if they intervene.

media analysis is for cringe losers

>>2204445
Nah, though that's a fun episode too. The one I'm thinking of is Who Watches the Watchers, where a federation science team is observing a primitive people on the verge of embracing empiricism. A mishap occurs and a local gets injured, and through the process of the Enterprise trying to cover it up the local encounters "The Picard," interpreting him as a god and their science as divine powers. Trying to explain things to them rationally doesn't work and threatens to derail their advancement.

>>2204447
Except the analogous technology here is the internet, which has made anything digitally transferable effectively post scarcity. Instead of destroying the music, film, or education industries, they institute artificial scarcity and use their social leverage to reinforce their position.

>>2204405
>Marxism is about developing the productive forces, and going to from near zero to infinity is pretty fucking Marxist sounding to me, you lib.
Really? Despite the fact that they lack the tech required to manufacture replicators? And the tech required to manufacture replicator manufacturing equipment? Etc. down to the level they are at?

Productive forces is more than just "having advanced technologies". Marx goes into this in detail in Capital

>>2204443
I didn't say that, I said that interventionism is closer to liberalism than non-interventionism.

the original star trek was also a lot of "white man's burden" stuff

Socialists use Star Trek to sell communism to Americans. We are well aware of how Star Trek is not AEC or FALC, you can try Iain Banks's the Culture for a closer approximation, but it is a potent ideological weapon when dealing with Americans.

As Marxists, we deal with and live in contradiction, even a fully realized high-level Communist society will have contradiction. We are comfortable with this.

File: 1743524923569.png (259.31 KB, 273x364, Wicket_W_Warrick.png)

>>2204306
It's Star Wars.

>>2204306
Interfering in less advanced cultures gets highly degenerate. https://humandomestication.guide/

>>2204418
>you'd know that such a sudden and rapid transformation in the productive forces would throw any society into total chaos
Is China in chaos right now?

File: 1743527294329.png (103.82 KB, 230x440, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2205916
>It's Star Wars.
The good bit and your picrel was just riffing off of Le Guin.

>>2205949
Not today, but contact with the industrialized world led it down a path of turmoil and chaos that lasted a hundred years, caused two civil wars, two revolutions, and briefly resulted in it being a failed state for a while.

>>2204355
is this a bit or are you just an obnoxious person in general

>>2205951
Why have we never gotten a good adaptation of either Earthsea or The Dispossessed?

File: 1743530221404.png (1.82 MB, 1800x900, star trek bridge.png)

>>2204306
Star Trek is supposed to show a hopeful future where humanity has gotten its shit together and created a government that reflects its highest ideals. Where we travel the stars, not for conquest, but for the noble goals of science and exploration. And where our relations with the alien species we encounter is based on mutual respect and cooperation.

The irony here is that you're playing the role of the neocon here, where you're basically insisting that the role of exploring the stars and encountering less advanced civilizations should be some kind of civilizing mission, rather than allowing them to develop their societies and eventually explore the stars and encounter us on their own terms.


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