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/tech/ - Technology

"Technology reveals the active relation of man to nature" - Karl Marx
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File: 1656521263027.jpg (200.15 KB, 1000x1000, 1656501889833.jpg)

 No.15646

There are no search results after page 40.
Try every category, every word the millions are a lie.

05:30
https://www.bitchute.com/video/4XukZxTIIQ74/

Every search engine is the same.

 No.15678

I read the original Agora Road thread he bases the video off of, it's entertaining in a creepypasta sort of way but not convincing at all.

 No.15698

>>15678
Google still doesn't work how one would expect. It doesn't crawl through the Internet looking for your keyword, there is not even a database linking keywords to websites its bots scrapped to make the process faster like old days of 90s search engines. Instead google takes your query and crosses with your meta data, giving you what it thinks you want rather then what you asked for. Couple with DIY websites not being anywhere as popular as they were and the Internet feels far more empty then it did in the 1990s when there was a tiny fraction of the userbase.

 No.15727

googling the word "documentation" stops returning results after only 26 pages. bizarre

 No.15740

>>15646
>>15698
Any good red pill or rabbit holes about modern YouTube and how much of it is gamed/botted/astroturfed?

 No.15743

>>15740
For starters Youtube UI is garbage where you can't even organize subscriptions in categories like you use to do in the late 2000s. Next Youtube gives you no meta data on videos in your playlist.
This bad UI pushes users to rely on the recommendations that algorisms as it is measuring "engagement" so when the entire Internet down votes a video the algorithm promotes it because users "engaged" with the video. Then you have the algorithm censoring videos based on keywords it finds through its half-ass auto-capitations.

 No.15744

>>15698
>Instead google takes your query and crosses with your meta data, giving you what it thinks you want rather then what you asked for.
why would they think people want this?

 No.15745

>>15744
For start to dumb down the UI, you notice Google doesn't specify syntax (how to include or exclude keywords i.e using AND and NOT).
Yet the big reason is that doing it this way encourages websites to pay Google to get their page higher in results.

 No.15756

>>15698
I knew something was wrong, I felt like it used to give way more results in the 00's and early 10's, now it has trouble finding a lot of shit.

 No.15764

File: 1657281851321.jpg (32.19 KB, 640x427, reddit-logo-vertical.jpg)

There is also something suspicious with new Reddit. It makes it excruciatingly difficult to see all comments and the voting system shifts the comments around in a more volatile way with new reddit. I don't use it and almost everyone I talk to still uses old.reddit.com.

 No.15775

It's not much, but there are tiny alternative search-engine projects:
search.marginalia.nu
https://wiby.org/about/guide.html <-just made the code available

>>15764
Reminder there is a reddit mirror teddit.net that works without javascript and lets you also read NSFW sections without login or cookies.

 No.15776

>>15698
you can avoid this by just not using google. i use kagi personally

 No.15796

>>15743
The largest issue I have with YouTube is that it literally prioritizes television channels over everything else besides maybe the LARGEST youtube channels with like millions of subs or more that everyone knows of already. If I wanna find out what some people are saying about some event, or get general info about something from less known content creators, youtube will throw CNN, Fox, MSNBC, John oliver, Steven colbert, local news, channel 11 news or some other garbage as all the main results. It will prioritize videos from these worthless sources even if the video has no views, was posted 10 years ago, isn't related to the subject matter, etc. It did NOT used to be like this even in like 2013 or 2014. I know because I used to make a hobby out of discovering weird obscure channels now the only way to do that is to search odd file extensions or names like 'Mov223' or 'mov001' and see what someone uploaded.

I can try and type in a video title of something I want to watch verbatim and it won't be in the top 100 results. Literally the exact title and it shows me everything except that video. It's infuriating. The closest solution I've found is to download the BlockTube extension and just perma block every mainstream channel that exists. Google is deliberately filtering everything and I find this whole dead internet thing very plausible especially with how centralized it is globally now.

 No.15799

>>15796
What you're talking about is the shitty way corporations got around net neutrality. Just prioritize corporate content ON servers and then they don't care if the plebs get net neutrality.

 No.15800

Even just for technical issues, for the average linux user, it's way more time consuming than before. Search results have been shit for a couple of years, walled gardens everywhere.

Documentation? Just go on our disglord bro.

 No.15801

>>15800
The Internet Archive does a better job for what it has. Searching for 30 year old technical documents just pop up in a Internet Archive search (if they exist) yet won't in Google.

 No.15805

>>15800
Fuck people that ask tech questions on Quora. Stop making that walled shitty website trend on Google.

 No.15808

>>15800
I know the proprietary D program is infesting everything, and that's really annoying.
It's like going back to the days where you had to do convoluted things like go to an ftp-server to download the docs-folder, or be subscribed to the mailing list at the time when the mail that contained the documentation was send.

For a time the most common thing to do was having a wiki-page and a forum to ask questions. That wasn't perfect but it was easy to navigate.

But enough of the complaining, what would be a good way to do documentation ?
Make every program self-documenting, including beginner tutorials ?
Make a more advance type of man-pages ?

Maybe it would be usefull to understand why the proprietary D got so popular in the first place. Take the essence of what made people use it and then enhance it but as a secure, spyware-free, open standard with a FOSS implementation.

 No.15809

File: 1657569276921.jpg (382.18 KB, 1600x1195, ATT-UnixPC.jpg)

>>15808
In the old days the big companies provided detailed documentation in many many binders. Today you can easily search PDF's of these and it would be nice for modern software having local HTML help files that allow to jump to sections along with searching (and there are emulators trs80gp that does just this for their help file).

 No.15817

It's deliberate. They want to waste our time and remove access to any utility the internet has.

The best example of this is when G removed the option to run your search term on *forums only*. It was amazingly quick and easy to find answers. I basically only ever used G to search forums using this drop down menu on the advanced search page.

They removed this functionality around 2017, and many others that were useful.

There was a lot of protests from developers on groups discussions, loads of complaining. They don't gaf. The search engine was becoming far too useful. Free unfettered access to discusssion could be potentially disruptive to the social order.

 No.15855

>>15817
imagine the slingshot educational acceleration when communism and the people's search engine tho
i'm drooling

 No.15933

Seems like this thread slipped down because of a sudden flurry of tech posting on leftypol/tech/. sad.

 No.15956

>>15817
>It's deliberate. They want to waste our time and remove access to any utility the internet has.
The big corporate search engine shows you the links that are the most profitable for them. They removed the forum search feature because then you have to look at the other more profitable search results.
I think that the corporate stuff providing great utility (in the past for your example) is the aberration.
Just look at the other information that capitalism generally tries to show you. It used to be the case that you had to do your own research to find out useful information. And maybe it's going back to the norm and people now have to host their own online infrastructure. You probably could run your own forum web-crawler, if you can find a community (like the people that protested against this feature deprecation) to help with getting it to work. I think there already are like semi-easy to configure diy search engines.

 No.15966

>>15956
>there's no conspiracy schizo, it's just capitalism.

With respect, are you informed on this topic or just making a general point? Informed on intel involvement with tech champions from their starts, and informed on the use of these tech monopolies as a vital pillar in global US hegemony (as acknowledged in US government reports to congress)? Informed on the staffing revolving door that exists between intel and big tech?

>You probably could run your own forum web-crawler


Thank you for this valuable input.

 No.15973

Back in March 2020 when covid first spread, Google removed its search censorship for a couple of days. This event is now memory holed. I remember the day it happened and it definitely happened.

The only things I can find are old reddit threads. AFAIK nobody ever explained what the fuck happened for Google to turn off its filters.

https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/fk0gx9/googles_censorship_filters_are_off/
https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/fp7sor/as_of_today_google_is_still_uncensored_who/
https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/m7bos7/one_year_ago_todaymarch_17_2020_the_day_the/

 No.15975


 No.16167


 No.16179

>google is a lie
who tf in modern age still uses that spyware

 No.16185

>>16179
Like, nearly every person on earth? It's even a verb in english.

 No.16191

Is there a way to block out search results for mainstream dogshit and just search for forums and github descriptions?
for example, I search "screenshot tool for linux" and I want all the shit from mainstream sources with those annoying "top 5" titles blocked and search either on forums or github descriptions

 No.16193

>>16191
Google use to do that like 10 years ago but removed the feature.

 No.16229

>>16193

It was a massive outcry when they removed the feature. The only possible explanations involve malevolence.

What really bothers me are the reports of the schools that google and apple workers send their children to. Schools where screentime is strictly minimized, social interaction and play are prioritized and individual attention is abundant.

While they push government to integrate ipads and chromebooks into public schooling where classes are 40:1 student:teacher.

 No.16231

>ctrl + f -> searx
>no results
What are you doing with your life? Google is trash tier nowadays with all the sponsored links and basing the search in what they think you may want to find.
Try some searx instances and find one with the defaults you need. You don't have to use a google service anymore if you don't want, there are plenty of alternatives.

 No.16232

File: 1660231935621-0.jpg (381.48 KB, 1600x1060, Apple2BasicClassLab.jpg)

File: 1660231935621-1.png (239.9 KB, 580x388, AppleLogo.png)

File: 1660231935621-2.jpg (671.03 KB, 1000x1509, Ti-ComputerLab.jpg)

>>16229
Screen time is not the issue. Computer Labs when I was young actually taught you at least touch typing and the basics of file management. For the more well funded labs you'd learn Logo, Basic and Pascal.

The problem is personal computers has mostly lost their hobbyist roots outside like of Linux and the retro geeks. With modern computer labs doing nothing to crack open modern micros so students actually learn computing.

 No.16290

Is there some kind of online guide that instructs on how to currently search the interneet without google?

Like, a set of strategies and sites to use when searching different specific topics?

 No.16291

Damn. Think my typo just coined a phrase.

 No.16292

>>15646
Google doesn't even call it's search engine a search engine anymore, it functions as >>15698 describes and Google uses some legalese bullshit term for it. They openly admit they censor "problematic" results and their ad services allow anyone who pays to manipulated search results so their sites prioritized.
Why anyone still bothers using it is beyond me when even other mainstream search engines like Bing, yahoo, and DuckDuckGo actually function how search engines used to function. There's tones of other search engine and projects to develop them out there that are easy to find.

>>16290
Look up other search engines. It's that simple.

 No.16386

>>15698
Even with a clean slate the results are still shit, across search engines. Popular sites have priority over relevancy.

The worst case is probably YouTube where you get propaganda from burger MSM instead of something relevant to what you actually searched for. What's even the point of YouTube if it's just like MSM on TV? What's even the point of Internet anymore if it's just another channel for one-directional MSM propaganda?

 No.16415

remember when you could scroll endlessly on google images?
i do, now it stops

and you can't search how to make it work again

 No.16416

>>16415
Endless scroll is the worst invention.

 No.16423


 No.16432


 No.16449

>>16416
ok google

 No.16498


 No.16499

>>16498
You're supposed to hate israel because of what they do to Palestine and Palestineans.

 No.16500

>>16232
There are extensions for that. You can also use "site:github.com query" to only search in github.
There are tags to deprioritize certain sites, but these days it's unclear if they actually work.
>>16191
>screen time is not the issue
It is one of them nowadays.
>computer labs
Back then, smartphones did not exist.

 No.16862

>>16500
>There are extensions for that. You can also use "site:github.com query" to only search in github.
>There are tags to deprioritize certain sites, but these days it's unclear if they actually work.

People tried workarounds like that when google initally removed the forum search feature a few years ago. They worked for a while then became less effective. It would be trivial for google to turn back on effective searching and remove the priority given to bullshit results. They want to waste our time by removing any utility from searches.

 No.16865

>>16500
The problem is wrong use of screen time in school. Schools no longer teach the basics of programming like how Basic was taught back in the day and what would be Python today if high schools still had computer courses that was somewhat useful. Also while MS-Dos was far from being a good OS, it being taught in schools at least taught students how to interact with a computer through a command line and the concept of a file system.

 No.17043

Not just a lie, a waste of time.

A few years ago getting relevant answers on a tech issue was pretty simple, just google it.

I've spent the last few days trying to get an old PC to a usable state. It has been impossible to get good search results. I've gone full schizo.

On startpage.com using simple search terms gives a couple of shit results then a couple of pages of SEO fake sites. When I tried search terms it drops to a page disallowing further searches which asks the user how they are connecting.

Actively wasting our time. Has anyone tried to create a new github account in even the most basic pseudo anonymous way, without associating social media, recently? It takes forever, the interaction with github is literally designed to dissuade account creation. It's like shadowbanning logic applied to every interaction, just designed to waste time and demoralize.

 No.17884

"For the past 16 years, search engines have been transitioning into answer engines: we noted it back in 2004, and we’ll reiterate it now in 2020. The search engine’s primary job is no longer resource discovery; rather, it is answering questions."
https://www.nngroup.com/articles/good-abandonment/

this is a neat point. What would a resource discovery engine look like? Is that what the internet used to be? I'm too young to know the early internet. I can think of some examples of pure resource discovery websites, like libgen etc., but they're only for research papers, and searches work best when you already know what you're looking for. I think the best solution would be a hierarchical tag-based system where every resource can have any number of tags relating to the material, and the tags themselves are intentionally ordered in an ideal fashion, from more general to more specific topics, the tags themselves being navigable (in order to assure full database discovery, rather than "who knows what exists? I just answer your query"). The problem with this is it'd take lots of labor hours sorting and tagging by hand, and would be far from completely objective and neutral wrt what tags exist and their placement.

>>17043
Yea i get really frustrated too when tech companies openly treat users like trash, lie to us, etc. But it makes sense, because most ppl can't tell the lies from "seems like the machine broke, dang", and we are just cattle to be milked for dollars to them, so its honest to their goals and they face no business repercussions for it.

 No.17885

>>17884
Originally search engines was filtering engines where AT&T in the early 1970s original goal for a search engine was to find key words in large data sets that could be spread across a WAN thus AT&T's approach with searching on ARPANET was treating it like you were searching on your own machine.

AT&T's method didn't care about context, it would compare the input string given to for the search and run it against everything the user had access to on the network and order it based on weight (how many hits it found within a given piece of data).

 No.17886

>>17043
I don't think it's really malicious, just a miscommunicated mess of backend and frontend engineering compounded by byzantine bureaucratic management
https://tube.mint.lgbt/watch?v=y8OnoxKotPQ

 No.17887

>>17884
Why doesn't search engines just have bots build a database of all HTML files on the Internet like how it was done in the 1990s or how searches happen at individual sites like the Internet Archive? Modern search engines has the problem of giving you results that have zero hits of your query even in the HTML file source since they are not giant filters anymore comparing meta data generated by combing the text of every webpage against the string you passed it like it was done in the old days.

 No.17905

>>17887
They probably have some borked metrics that tell them this is good. People running a search engine can probe the data about how often a user got corrected, and then they do an estimate of how often the user benefited from that and how often the result got worse for the user. The accuracy of the estimate can be pretty bad if you are not directly asking the user whether the changed input was the intended one.

Moreover, there is a bit of a psychological issue here that might be missing in how the guys at Google etc. model the popularity of these AI changes. If my inputs get changed by an AI and the change is for the better half the time and for the worse half the time, that doesn't mean that I'm ambivalent about that, rather it pisses me off to no end. The positive changes must be far more common for me to be even ambivalent. Because like most people, I'm hypocritically less angry about my mistakes than mistakes of others. And the instant feedback from mistakes also means I quickly learn and adjust my queries. Heavy input modifications have an infantilizing effect on the user.

Interface designer Jef Raskin said that user input is holy. For a search engine that means it should always directly carry out the user's command. Suggestions are OK, but should not be displayed where the pages are usually listed, because the user (=God) expects the pages to be there. How about a fixed-size section always there above the input field (sometimes empty)? That way, if the user doesn't feel like reading advice from a program, the user doesn't waste even a tenth of a second while the eyes jump over that.

 No.17909

>>17905
Yet how did Google even get in this mindset. I mean how is Google's AI suppose to connect a search for Tranto T130 and Rancho 1000 that both are 8-bit SCSI adapters and even if it did how would the AI know the user is not on the next request searching for something entirely unrelated? How is just getting users to refine their query not more reliable and cheaper on the back end then having an AI trying to second guess the users request?

 No.17949

>>15646

google made out with your mom, this is why it's so massive

 No.18061


 No.18064

>There are no search results after page 40.
anon thats probably because the results aren't cached, if google cant get you the results in less than 3 seconds it probably counts as a cache miss

 No.18072

>>16231
tbf there are some searx instances which are basically google mirrors

 No.18074

>>18064
It's also because Google search works differently than it used to. Now it operates on the same algorithmic content delivery social media uses based on data harvesting taken from both the aggregate of all users and specific users. Search results will be slightly different based on your prior search history and whatever data Google gets from cookies, browsing history, watch history on youtube, and whatever other data they get from you.

 No.18076

>>18074
That makes it less useful as a technical resource when you are searching a model name and just wanting anything that matches that is on the Internet. For example I remember a year or so ago coming across on the Internet hex edits instructions for IBM PC Dos 7 files to fix bugs but I can't find it with Google searches even though it should be easy and I don't know if it is Google being Google or the page is no longer up.

 No.18077

It never used to be like that. I remember in the earlier 2000s you would not get repeating results.

>unironically using Bitchute a rightoid run site

Why? There is other options you know.

 No.18083

>>15646
No shit, ever since the war in the ukraine started and DuckDuckGo announced they would counter disinformation along with everyone else and added the Bing telemetry to their site, every search engine just gives me stuff one grade above the Epoch Times. Really makes you think.

 No.19419

Ӏ've been very happy throughout the experience.
Іt'ѕ a great company too work witһ.


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