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/tech/ - Technology

"Technology reveals the active relation of man to nature" - Karl Marx
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File: 1694617985512.jpg (304.81 KB, 1153x836, unity-fee-isntalls.jpg)

 No.21566

I don't see how Unity can commit suicide harder then this. So what is the best alternative? Is an open source clone of Unity on the horizon?

 No.21567

File: 1694618688060.png (24.21 KB, 422x464, w8mgthh30ypa1.png)

>>21566
Godotchads stay winning.

 No.21568

>>21566
It will become pirate-ware like Adobe software or fl studio

 No.21569

>>21568
This is a disaster for studios that sell their game. Unity is charging per install not sale (they did clarify as such in a FAQ). Meaning someone reinstalls a game that goes towards the threshold and if crossed the developer is charged. Think about that, gamers have become use to simply deleting a game in their library because they can always reinstall when they want to play it again also the question of how they are going to filter out pirated copies has not been addressed by Unity other then they have "technology" to detect illicit installs. Oh and this means Unity is going to be phoning home every install for this stupid pricing plan.
How did anyone think this was a good idea?

 No.21570

>>21569
>…by Unity other then they have "technology" to detect illicit installs. Oh and this means Unity is going to be phoning home every install for this stupid pricing plan.
oh i love spyware, they totally gonna sell information from the people that install this shit.

 No.21571

>>21570
What makes this supervillain shit is this at the consumer runtime end so if you want to use Unity going forward to make a game you have to build this shit into your game so Unity can put spyware on your customers computers just so Unity can hit the dev with a fuck you bill if their game is installed too many times.

 No.21572

>>21569
wow so it's like a trojan horse delayed ransomware.

 No.21576

File: 1694652755754.png (846.7 KB, 1000x669, gno.png)

>>21566
>using proprietaryshit
>expecting it to not fuck you over
proprietary slaves put in their place again

 No.21577

>>21576
So what good open source 3d game engine is there then

 No.21579

>>21577
godot
>b..but it doesn't have x feature!!11!
so add the feature. that's what free software allows and how it works.

 No.21580

>>21579
Gee I wonder why indie devs would rather not have to rewrite half of their engine in order to make the game

 No.21581

>>21580
do it once and it is available to all indie devs because it's open, over time you have a robust engine.
plenty of devs "license" proprietary engines and end up customizing and rewriting parts of it anyway because it doesn't cover all their requirements. and those changes are never available for other devs because it's all locked behind proprietary restrictions.

other industries have built great products on free software tools, only gayming never did because it is the most cucked sector of software, both in terms of devs who refuse to use anything other than microsoft tools and gamers who will pay through the nose 3 years in advance for "pre-orders".

 No.21582

>>21576
I mean Unity devs expected paying Unity $400 a year for a licence was the pound of flesh they had to pay Unity not a runtime user tax along with Unity dropping the $400 price option forcing then to up to the $2,000 a year for the pro licence. Publishers are currently scrambling to drop Unity as they don't want any part of this regardless if devs want to take the risk so it is not like this was a masterful move on Unity's part and Unity killing their golden goose that has already caused massive collateral damage.

 No.21583

File: 1694654417989.png (85.26 KB, 883x831, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.21584

>>21582
Unity is also designed in such a way that it's a lot more effort to port a game to another engine because it has an idiosyncratic (and black box) way of managing assets.

 No.21585

>>21581
Look man, if open source tools were better then devs would already be using them. Open source still can't compete with proprietary products for gaming

 No.21586

>>21581
Also using Godot means you can't port to consoles because they're proprietary

>well they shouldn't anyway because the purity of open source


Ok I guess they should just swear off the idea of making any money off their game then.

There's a reason why open source is the domain of pampered professional software devs who never have to worry about where their paycheck comes from because they have a day job making intelligent predator drone AI or something

 No.21587

>>21586
>>well they shouldn't anyway
yeah consoles are proprietary. why do you want to promote completely locked down hardware/software ecosystems when less restrictive alternatives exist?
>pampered professional software devs
nice meme. many of us are third-worlders with no job security writing shitty social media crap for rich westoids to "change the world" with. free software is the one thing that enables us to participate free of bullshit like license fees, crazy hardware requirements and pointless legal restrictions.
like i said, all other industries are building upon open tools, cloudshit is built upon open stuff like kubernetes, linux, docker, etc., researchers are moving in their droves to python, excel programmers are too after years of being abused by VBscript or whatever they used.
guess who always refuses? the people who grew up paying $80 every other week for pre-ordered collector's edition recreational stuff which they will enjoy in their overpriced gaming chair, massive monitor/tv screen, and fancy controller/multicolor backlit keyboard. and their enablers who refuse to program anything without a licensed copy of visual studio(tm), on the highest spec video card which never has free drivers, and only with licensed proprietary APIs.

 No.21588

>>21587
>yeah consoles are proprietary. why do you want to promote completely locked down hardware/software ecosystems when less restrictive alternatives exist?
Because it is an audience that can pay money for your game that goes towards funding your next game.

 No.21589

>>21585
They are game developers, if they were capable of making good choices they wouldn't be game developers.

 No.21590

>>21576
Marxism-Cockshottism-GNUism

 No.21591


 No.21592

>Unity making the "pirate game 100 times, dev loses $60,000" shitposts real
bravo

 No.21594

File: 1694695954281.jpg (44.6 KB, 600x400, post.jpg)

>>21567
Reject Unity, Embrace Godot

 No.21595

>>21594
How did your monitor survive having a patch ironed onto it?

 No.21596

>>21566
>>21567
people will just use unreal instead. If that dies then I can see open source becoming a thing.

If you notice most "serious" game dev shops ex:Blizzard roll their own game engines and basically don't use any off the shelf shit at all (other than hearthstone but it seemed liked that was a side project anyway).

 No.21598

>>21596
Unreal doesn't scale down that well, for a half assed game you are making the game much heavier then it would under Unity.

 No.21599

File: 1694726836187.gif (1.26 MB, 320x240, based.gif)


 No.21600

>>21587
The reason why open source hasn't gained traction in gaming is because it doesn't work well. Normal people care more about that than software lifestylism. If you want open source gaming to succeed then make programs that are as good as Unity, Unreal, etc.

 No.21602

video games are the worst form of circus ever shat out by capitalism
paying hundreds of dollars just to mash some buttons and pretend like you're competing in a sport

 No.21603

>>21602
This doesn't effect expensive or competitive games. Don't derail.

 No.21604

>>21600
it works well in every sector except games. it's obvious where the problem lies.

 No.21605

>>21604
People use krita for assets and blender for models, so asset dev is open source dominated. Engines tho…

 No.21606

>>21605
Unreal Engine is open source. I think you're thinking of FOSS.

 No.21607

>>21586
Can Godot really not be ported? That Stardew Valley guy used MonoGame engine and that game has been ported to console. I think the console companies provide resources to port to their consoles.

 No.21608

>>21606
>Unreal Engine is open source.
Oh neat, I might look into that later.
>>21607
Depends on the console. I know some games currently sold on the switch were made in godot.

 No.21610

File: 1694745331770.png (340.71 KB, 634x725, 1678058038473.png)

john riccitiello has sold 2000 stocks in Unity earlier this week and has sold 50,000 + over the last year while buying none, you say

really something how many companies and businesses out there are run by people intentionally trying to tank them for short term profit and cash out before moving onto the next one, and that there's basically no consequences for this ever

nice double whammy of showing exactly how serious we are in prosecuting white collar crime like insider trading too

 No.21611

>>21602
t. gets rekt in LoL and CS:GO on a regular basis

 No.21612

>>21595
Just sticky tape for the photo.

 No.21614

>>21611
never even tried them out for 5 minutes before getting bored like I have with some of the other generic ones that are probably just like those anyways
i love how you're proud enough about spending thousands of dollars on these acronyms, probably enough for getting a kid through college, that you presume it's sour grapes when i criticize them

 No.21616

>>21614
What does this have to do with Unity? No one's gonna make a serious competitive game with Unity jank (or any game with the news at hand), and the only gacha I can think of that uses Unity is arknights.

 No.21617

>>21616
unity is commercial trash and it always has been
you shouldn't be shocked by this news like some authentic stuff was being made with it anyways

 No.21618

>dont save her, she dont wanna be saved
wisdom right there that applies to this situation

 No.21619

>>21616
Genshin also uses unity.

 No.21620

>>21596
unreal and epic are on the expensive side, and i don't see them doing this shit.

> most "serious" game dev shops ex:Blizzard roll their own game engines and basically don't use any off the shelf shit at all

i assure you it's because their tech requirements and not because they're afraid of using licensed software. at any given point, microsoft could turn around and do the exact same shit with their graphics pipeline, and i don't see them using vulkan.

 No.21623

>>21620
>i assure you it's because their tech requirements and not because they're afraid of using licensed software
wut. it's precisely the opposite. porkies know not to make themselves to other porkies if they can help it. sometimes it's also historical reasons, a lot of studios having developed their tech since the 90's. id is an example

 No.21624

>>21596
Yet mid sized studio tend not to have the programmers for that, they tend to be heavier towards asset and level creation for in house thus why they like having off the shelf middle ware.

 No.21625

>>21606
>Unreal Engine is open source.
It is not.

 No.21626

>>21623
*not to make themselves beholden

 No.21627

>>21623
nah, it's shocking how easily porkies are taken in by the marketing of others like them. a bunch of charlatans make a fancy presentation with the right buzzwords and pretty much the entire porkie leadership gets mesmerized and starts seeing $ signs and higher productivity graphs instantly.

in the case of blizzard it's because they've been an established and successful company from the days when writing and maintaining your own engine was the norm. you bet any new mmo competitor of blizzard's will either try to license some heavily marketed shit or try to shoehorn in one of engines from their other non-mmo products into being used to develop a blizzard-tier mmo because of "cross-team synergies" or some other retarded buzzword thinking. porkies are blinf to absolutely everything except whether line goes up at the end of every 3 months.

 No.21637

>>21598
That's also why Unity has such a shit reputation. It's the engine of choice for many hobbyist level game devs who publish games that would have been probably best left as a hobby project to show to your friends. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing to have a less beginner friend engine that isn't about squeezing the best graphics and performance out of everything.

 No.21639

>>21637
Unreal has such shit too for example Garten of Banban runs on Unreal yet you need to give Epic money before you are allowed to use the Unreal logo while with Unity it is the other way around you have to give Unity money to not have their logo in your game.

 No.21640

File: 1695139177851.png (434.7 KB, 600x450, ClipboardImage.png)

>>21627
>nah, it's shocking how easily porkies are taken in by the marketing of others like them. a bunch of charlatans make a fancy presentation with the right buzzwords and pretty much the entire porkie leadership gets mesmerized and starts seeing $ signs and higher productivity graphs instantly.
Somebody should do the Sacha Baron Cohen bit except they pretend to be a slick marketing guru who goes to conferences and psyops porkies into doing extremely dumb things with their brands (and then shaming them for not having the proper "grindset" or something when it blows up in their faces).

 No.21642

>>21640
>slick marketing guru who goes to conferences and psyops porkies into doing extremely dumb things with their brands
Isn't Nathan For You kinda like that?

 No.21649

>Unity
>Unreal
>Godot
>Love2D
>…
Those things won't make you creative, or help you make a good game. Look at chess, wei-qi, timeless games. Look at this shit >>21598, omg it's a car selling game. Wow! That's sure to become an instant classic.

People have forgotten what games are. Including all of you. I don't blame you, I blame society and society's shit you consume.

 No.21651

>>21639
It's still way more common with unity. it's just behind much more effort to produce drivel with unreal than with unity.

 No.21656

>>21649
löve and godot good tho
uncreative meme shit is another problem

 No.21657

>>21649
If you are relying on a tool to "make you creative" you are already failing. Creativity comes from you and what you can figure out how to do with a tool, not something the tool gives to you.

 No.21658

>Unity "walked" things back
hopefully a decent amount of people move to FOSS engines after this, but I doubt it

 No.21659

>>21656
>>21657
>Creativity comes from you and what you can figure out how to do with a tool
In an ideal world, sure. But let's face it, most people find a tool they think they can learn (that's why Love and Unity and RPG Maker market themselves as easy to learn and use) and then think of a game they can make with it. It's always some variation on a 2D side scroller, Zelda/Pokemon style RPG, first-person shooter, some [real life thing] "simulator", and so on. They do this because they're motivated by profit, and it is the easiest way to get something on Steam and rake in some money.

 No.21667

>>21659
side scrollers are good practice
gamedev is a sort of work so you need practice and that's what people tend to start with
it isn't always profit motivated
also baba is you, a pretty creative sokoban-esque game, was made with multimedia fusion 2, a game engine

 No.21671

>>21667
Thank you for proving my point. Nobody wants to make a new game, come up with new gameplay. Some want to make sidescroller no. 6373863, or RPG no. 1128376, or Sokoban no. 9273839

 No.21673

>>21671
That would require more coding skill for newbies. For example I'm sure S&box will create a generation of hobbyist devs that would move onto just devloping right to Source 2 (If Valve ever gets off its ass and release a dev kit for Source 2).

 No.21674

>>21671
>Nobody wants to make a new game, come up with new gameplay
Valuing ideas instead of their execution and thinking that ideas must be, or are, created uniquely in vacuum independent of humanity is the heart of arid creativity.

 No.21675

Unity will get away with this and it will become the industry standard. Many times before companies (not only in the video game industry) have introduced blatantly anti consumer features, which have been received with seemingly unanimous disapproval and smug certainty that "surely such naked greed will will inevitably backfire and this feature will die never to return"; only for said companies to succeed in pushing through their desired feature by sheer attrition on the soft malleable rotten weak first world consumerist psyche.

Save yourself some disappointment. Just brace yourself for when this inevitably becomes the industry standard.

 No.21676

>>21671
Maybe that's all you're seeing because that's the channels you follow. All kinds of weird games coming out all time.

 No.21677

>>21671
Whenever there is a slight innovation, people tend to mimic it which makes it become a genre or a trope. Happens also in fiction in general

 No.21678

>>21673
>That would require more coding skill for newbies.
You keep reinforcing my point. People start with the tool, not the game they wish to make. Coding too hard – go for a WYSIWYG game maker. The game maker they choose limits them to certain kinds of games.

>>21674
We're talking about games. I am not talking about concepts (a hero in a fantasy world, a sci-fi rts, …), I'm talking about gameplay, the actual game. A game is much more than its graphic assets.

For example: the game where you take a piece of paper with squares, and then you draw lines, point of the game being to complete/collect as many squares as possible, drawing one line per turn. You can take this concept and make it soldier placement, bombs, completing tunnels, mining, doesn't matter how you dress it up, the actual gameplay stays the same.

>>21676
>Maybe that's all you're seeing because that's the channels you follow.
I was going off of the examples given, the anon I responded to said "sokoban-like" game, another said sidescrollers are good practice. I actually enjoy board games much more than video games. I rarely play games that are younger than 5 years, not because I think "old is better", but precisely because I don't really follow any game release channels and stick with what I know. Coincidentally, most new games are actually shit.

>>21677
Yes. So be the first who gets copied, don't be the one who copies.

e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Game_of_War

 No.21679

>>21678
>We're talking about games. I am not talking about concepts
Gameplay doesn't materialize from nowhere as someone absentmindedly pounds at a keyboard.
>Coincidentally, most new games are actually shit.
Most new games have been shit since video games as a medium existed.

 No.21680

>>21679
>Gameplay doesn't materialize from nowhere as someone absentmindedly pounds at a keyboard.
Sure. But we can agree that certain tools are best suited for certain kinds of gameplay? You can use a wrench as a hammer, but that's not what the wrench is best at doing. Good analogy actually.

Choosing game dev software before knowing what kind of game you want to make is like choosing a hand tool before you know what you want to build. If you take a wrench, then it's best to build something using nuts and bolts, probably out of metal; if you take a hammer, then you will build something using nails, probably out of wood. Sure you can bend metal with a hammer and twist it until it holds, and you can use a wrench to drive in nails, but it will be extremely difficult.

If, on the other hand, you have a plan for what you want to make, then finding a tool to do it will be easier.

Take for example first person shooters on consoles. The controller is not that well-suited for quick movements and precision (unlike a mouse), so FPS games have auto-aim. The controller is simply better at certain games than others, yet that doesn't stop game developers of porting every single game to consoles. PS1 (or 2, can't recall) had Diablo on it. Now why would I want to play a game like Diablo with a controller? And that's why it wasn't a success, but a failure.

In my opinion, all good, timeless games have the quality of being super easy to learn and grasp, but give you near-infinite possibilities how to play them. And that's the kind of games I'd like to make.

 No.21681

>>21678
You are ignoring that one has to get skilled at development. For example there are those that started with Garry's Mod then moved to Source Engine proper as their skills outgrew Garry's Mod

 No.21682

>>21678
>I was going off of the examples given, the anon I responded to said "sokoban-like" game, another said sidescrollers are good practice. I actually enjoy board games much more than video games. I rarely play games that are younger than 5 years, not because I think "old is better", but precisely because I don't really follow any game release channels and stick with what I know. Coincidentally, most new games are actually shit.
How are you going to play a board game without pther people physically present? Even with people they are rather obnoxious to set up and play.

 No.21683

>>21680
>But we can agree that certain tools are best suited for certain kinds of gameplay?
Yes, but I fail to see how this relates to the point I made. I specifically referred to your point that people don't want to make "new games/gameplay" because it's reductive to how creativity generally occurs. Calling Baba is You "Sokoban no. 9273839" is strange, but it makes sense if your perspective of making something "new" is that someone does something never before seen independent of the outside world rather than building upon existing concepts you're aware of and exploring directions others haven't.

Also it can be cool to see games made with engines that weren't designed with that type of game in mind. If someone wants to make something like Sonic Robo Blast in the Doom engine or pinball games and top down shooters in RPGmaker then I'm all for it.

 No.21695

>>21683
>Also it can be cool to see games made with engines that weren't designed with that type of game in mind. If someone wants to make something like Sonic Robo Blast in the Doom engine or pinball games and top down shooters in RPGmaker then I'm all for it.
>>21680
<You can use a wrench as a hammer, but that's not what the wrench is best at doing.
Things aren't "good" just because they are hard. People making pinball games in RPG Maker should rightfully be mocked as idiots, much like people who use a wrench as a hammer should be.

>if your perspective of making something "new" is that someone does something never before seen independent of the outside world rather than building upon existing concepts you're aware of and exploring directions others haven't.

That's… that's just everyone's perspective of what it means to be "new", otherwise it is derivative by definition.

I just looked at Baba is You. Cool concept, but the gameplay is a sokoban derivative, you move blocks to trigger effects and pass levels. The innovation is in the look, feel and "skin" of the game, under the surface it is sokoban. I am not saying it isn't creative, or a new game, it simply isn't as innovative as creating a completely new game.

Re: board games, you can class board games as card drafting games, worker management games, some have a mix, by ultimately they're derivatives of a style of gameplay. Not all of them are the same, some utilise a gameplay better than others, some have more interesting "lore" and win conditions, some have better replayability than others.

I was just saying I am interested in gameplay, the core of the game, and I'd like to create something new. Something that people could take and make hundreds of derivatives and "new" games out of. But that's just me. I was simply trying to add to the discussion and have anons think about what a game is, and not what it presents itself as. And gameplay often does come down to representing complex, real-world effects, actions and conditions in a simple, entertaining way. For example, my dislike of games of chance aside, take Risk, attackers have two dice, defenders have three, to simulate the advantage a prepared defensive position would have in a real-world scenario.

 No.21696

>>21682
>How are you going to play a board game without pther people physically present?
I'll make it in tabletop simulator.

 No.21697

>I was simply trying to add to the discussion and have anons think about what a game is, and not what it presents itself as.
You're doing the exact thing you wanted to avoid.

 No.21787

>>21577
reject 3d, return to sprites


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