It's not that Linux is "hard", it's that it's tedious and a waste of time.
>buy a Macbook
>get a preinstalled operating system that just werks
>doesn't fault
>has everything I will ever need already preinstalled for me
>if I want to install other things, they just werk
But with Linux, it's always "drivers start bugging out with some functionalities so you gotta roll back to a previous driver / spend hours troubleshooting" or "so now an update broke the program you were using, so now you gotta spend hours trying to find a workaround in a config file located in some hidden file location". I don't have time for that. Every minute spent troubleshooting my install is one less minute I can spend actually being productive and enjoying my life. I don't mind using the terminal, in fact I use it to automate many of my tasks. But why would I enjoy wasting my time troubleshooting?
it used to be great, back when i had dialup i ordered debian cd's in the mail and everything did "just work". Updates were small and reliable, overhead compared to windows was great, and I was using a system with 512mb ram until the flashpocalypse. Could not get debian to work correctly on an A1502, tried again when i upgraded to a ryzen powered hp, still a bunch of fucking problems with no solutions. Tried to install debian on a 7490, didnt have iwlwifi package and didnt detect the ethernet adapter, so the install decided not to install the entire fucking network stack. Debian is supposed to be *the* 'it just works' operating system, this is unacceptable, and gnome/kde are fatter than windows when you finish stripping an ltsc install. It's a fucking headache and the community has done everything to turn new users away. The 'year of linux' is another decade away every year at this rate.
It's just a waste of time and what am I getting out of it?
>a slower, buggier, more crash-prone system
>no professional software
>no actual warranty or support if linux decides to break my install one day
>have to wait literal years of my life to see new cutting edge features that get put into MacOS every year never make it into linux
Why would I put up with this? So I can post fetch screenshots? So I can LARP as Mr. Robot when my kernel is developed by a literal PRISM member?
It feels like Linux is one big joke. Linux users create memes to brainwash people into believing there's a point to using their faulty OS, then they offer the faulty OS as a solution.
>>27331B-but am more used to it than anything else and it-it's what my operating systems class uses.
written sans-pride on a Mac. >Slower
Lol
It's actually based to give Microsoft all your data.
You are helping build the productive forces which is necessary to achieve socialism (you will nationalize everything including the personal data when the revolution comes).
MacOS is unusable, even Windows is better.
many of the cheapest (aka reasonably accesible to the majority of the world population unlike apple products) laptops available today come preinstalled with windows and other third party bloatware. these computers have horribly shitty specs and as a consequence of those two things are from the factory barely functional. with that hardware it is often a lot better to install some light weight linux distro in order to enable using them as work stations. so there you go, there is literally one reason to use linux and learn it.
>>27331>t. Macbook user trying to justify their purchase to random strangersAnd they say GNU/Linux users are preachy, Christ.
>>27341>And they say GNU/Linux users are preachyonly the newfags
I installed Fedora because Windows 11 crashed outrageously frequently on my modern machine and Fedora has been stable as fuck in comparison despite being a fairly unstable distro upstream from RHEL.
I've tried many times since Ubuntu Hardy Heron to main Linux but never managed it for more than a few months at a time, largely because of my lack of familiarity with Linux and not wanting to spend the time learning it just to avoid Windows, but it's actually shocking how little complaining I see over what a shitshow Windows 11 is compared to the days back when Vista was the popular thing for people to dunk on.
I've now been maining Linux for nearly two years and I've not missed Windows at all since then, I was actually just too angry over a paid OS to being treated like it's a rolling release Linux distro where things breaking all the time is expected and fine because there will be another update tomorrow that will hopefully fix the things you care about and only break the things you don't, if that miraculously does happen then you can enjoy for a while 48 hours before the dice rolls again.
Fuck Windows 11, fuck rolling updates, fuck "Early Access" normalising this shit to the point where no one cares 11 is wholly worse than even the most unfair assesments of Vista.
>>27331windows is capitalist while gnu/linux is anti-capitalist
>>27337telemetry/spying makes ur pc slower than one that doesn't have telemetry/spying. oh also privacy, but that's a meme apparently
>>27344>largely because of my lack of familiarity with Linuxthe solution:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64 (the book teaches basically everything)
https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/>fuck rolling updatesstable release distros break if u modify it (actually tbh modify without knowing what will exactly happen). that's why I prefer rolling release imo
>>27331>But with Linux, it's always "drivers start bugging out with some functionalities so you gotta roll back to a previous driver / spend hours troubleshooting" or "so now an update broke the program you were using, so now you gotta spend hours trying to find a workaround in a config file located in some hidden file location".I have been using gentoo for 10+ years and I have never had any of these problems.
>if I want to install other things, they just werknot really. for example, I like recreational programming, and linux is the only environment where I can clone random libraries and tools from github and be sure they will work. I can even write a small ebuild file and have the package manager integrate them into my system and keep them up to date
>no professional softwareI have used "professional software" at work and I would never use it in my free time, corporate software is garbage.
>inb4 muh jobif you only want to use the computer for your code monkey job, why are you even posting? what is there to discuss?
>>27346I don't modify it though, I leave my install of Fedora alone because I don't have any particular desires for my OS other than it should just werk, hence why I was a Windows user for so long until the continually updating 11 came along.
>>27349u can't patch close source(aka windows)
>>27349The OS has to run it's initial boot for opt-out solutions like patching.
>>27353CIA still able to spy even with patches
>>27357Don't want to hit a sore spot, but why is it always lolis for OSes?
>>27356That too but like the idea of opt-out for telemetry is absurd and weirdly normalized to the point where I see reviews for stuff aknowledge it and gloss over it as though there's no issue.
>>27359Because it provides the illusion of choice in the matter.
>>27359>>27359because the people are spooked, the on and off switch for telemetry is for the people™ to cope but doesn't actually deactivate remote control or spying
>a slower, buggier, more crash-prone system
maybe this is just anecdotal, but my experience with linux has been far less buggy or crash-prone than with windows. I made the swap to linux when I built my first pc, which was probably 4-5 years ago now. I initially swapped because I didn't want to pay for windows (but the coolness was also something that drew me in), and I haven't missed it. I don't have any experience with apple machines.
There's also a bonus that I can update when or what I want. Pretty much every change that happens to my system has to go through me first. I think that for the average user, mac or windows will serve them just fine. But I appreciate the added control that linux provides.
Switched to win11 after a couple years of linux, this post status = true.
Neither Mac nor Windows nor Linux are great and based we need new operating systems!
>>27371Genera, Plan9, Inferno, BeOS, QNX, Workplace OS, Amoeba, Sprite and TRON were the future at different points in time. Some of their features were cannibalized by UNIX or VMS. All of them either died an untimely death or are languishing as legacy software in some niche market segment.
>>27358>why is it always lolis for OSes?Wdym? All OS-tans are mature-looking waifus, those who draw them as lolis are just weirdos.
>>27371I was about to say we should make stuff modular to make the creation of new operating systems easier but I remembered that' basically just unix philosophy.
>>27376except the so called "unix philosophy" doesn't really exist, and even if it did it wouldn't help you develop new operating systems. even small programs like cat or ls, which embody the UF couldn't be ported to any new OS because they depend on the posix standard. the UF at most is only useful for developing unix clones and nothing more
linux is the only one from that list that I care about, and it is a mess. monolithic kernels shouldn't even exist. if you wanted to develop a new OS you would have to basically write everything from scratch, from the bootloader to the language compilers
>>27377Is there any hope for the Hurd?
>another thread promoting glow OS that have only got more glowy in the last couple of years
>there's been more of these threads the last few weeks
all you need to know. linux is plug and play in 95% of hardware cases and is simple. It's not an identity or le hacker opsec os, it's just a better option than fucking Apple or Microsoft glow OS.
I need to use Windows software so I use Windows. I never liked MacOs. I used to have to use those shits because some how they invented a meme that they were good for art, so every computer art lab had them. The mice only have one click.
>>27392>GlownonymousNo one cares what you're up to past which ad to shove in your face.
>>27393> need to use Windows software so I use Windows.What kind of a job do you work at that absolutely requires you to use a Windows-only proprietary software? Don't tell me you're a Windows sysadmin.
>>27393>I need to use Windows software so I use Windows.Windows stuff runs better in proton.
>>27331it's free though
and I can fix issues if I run into them (I'm a programmer)
also due to being a programmer, the way it works is intuitive for me to understand far more than macos or windows.
I've been using it as my main OS for like 15 years now, I don't even know how to set up a compiler on macos, while it's almost second nature to me on Linux.
>>27395that only happened to me once. that's probably still not the majority of the cases, I think
>>27404I mean that's fair but unless your OS is notably better than Windows there's no reason why I shouldn't use Windows as the standard
>>27405I mean back when used to use windows I had to factory reset once a month or so. NixOS with KDE hasn't required me to do that once.
>>27407How is it actually better for average user?
>>27408I mean fair, Windows definitely feels like it's getting worse IMO, but I don't think that it really needs reset every month.
>>27409>How is it actually better for average user?it's not, lol. it's only better than windows if ur willing to learn how to build a system from scratch(technically from a stage3 tarball) and build it exactly how you want it to be, with all preferred components and etc
>>27412if the user knows exactly what to do and doesn't need to research anymore, then the system would be 100% perfect, like a custom built ferrari or chinese war tank depending on the use case.
but if the user is still learning/an amateur, then the system would be probably much worse than picrel
>>27413Yeah, I mean I can see the purpose of open source for business/enterprise use, or tech hobbyist, but the people evangelising for average users to switch to it, well, IDK it just seems silly
>>27414>>27414>IDK it just seems sillyI agree, it's extremely silly. they can still try archlinux with KDE using the archinstall if they wanna learn a little bit, or probably just kde manjaro if not
>>27414>but what about <strawman>the people that only use the computer for the office tools, browsing the internet, and streaming content literally wouldn't notice the difference. specially not when switching to linux is planned as a corporate or state policy, which means there would be permanent support staff managing the systems. the only exception are people that use specialized software
the people that switch to linux as some sort of consumer choice and then complain their system broke are g*mers. if you have ever played a videogame you should be castrated and I'm glad linux breaks every time (you) try to use it
>>27412My argument is that the meme is still calling back to the days when drivers were scarce for Linux, but these days if I'm installing one of the user friendly distros it's unironically more likely to support my hardware OOTB than Windows is.
>>27421but u don't build drivers?
>>27416games always work with emulators + virtual machines (I refuse to run a .exe on my computer)
>>27422No, but if there was a Linux driver that just wasn't OOTB then it did have a pretty involved process in getting it installed, as in no wizard to use.
>>27416>the people that switch to linux as some sort of consumer choice and then complain their system broke are g*mers. if you have ever played a videogame you should be castrated and I'm glad linux breaks every time (you) try to use itThen why are you faggots always hatassing everyone about how they need to use linux?
Imagine making your operating system your whole personality.
Tbh, because Linux does get support from hardware and software vendors these days fairly frequently, I don't think it needs to be shilled just to increase market share any more, it gets enough attention to be supported.
>>27416And you guys wonder why you have no friends
>>27416I've literally never had issues getting games to run on linux. That's such an antiquated complaint. Every game either has a native port or runs in proton. Even on NixOS, which I've heard the same people that say gaming is hard say is a difficult OS to use but it's genuinely easier than when I used to use Linux Mint. My tech illiterate dad uses NixOS with no issues.
Supposedly rootkit cawduties don't run on proton, but Windows itself is in the midst of patching out the ability to rootkit anyway so that's soon to be irrelevant as those games will become console only.
>>27427windows also doesn't run 16 bits .exes anymore. but wine for windows exists to run 16 bit msdos programs
>>27433Yeah that was the problem, but it's far less frequently that's the case.
What about Nobara Linux?
>>27436indeed, for common/generic hardware this issue doesn't exist
>>27416> if you have ever played a videogame you should be castratedI'm a GNU/Linux supporter and a gamer (see, I even say "GNU/Linux"). I can enjoy both GNU/Linux and Sonic games and you won't stop me. If I have to move to FLOSS games like Xonotic I will but this attitude is just lame, games are a form of art.
>>27443>Quake clone number #273 is a form of artkill all millenoids
>>27444>Quake clone number #273 is a form of artNice strawman, idiot.
>kill all millenoidsI'm a zoomer, there is no better generation, you're just being pretentious.
>>27416>office toolsLibre/OpenOffice is not 1% close to Microsoft's Office suite
>>27477What features does office have that you couldn't accomplish with HTML and CSS?
>>27478Most of the time it's about opening specific documents or having to use templates.
>>27331>It's not that Linux is "hard", it's that it's tedious and a waste of time.There are a few things which seem to be hard. Namely knowing to make backups, comment out configuration, or use version control, and knowing when to stop trying things, and use search, or forums, or just stop. Navigating this search can also be difficult. Setup is for the most part a one time thing, but can feel like a waste of time.
Linux seems to be a better environment for system administration, over Mac OS and Windows. So it's better for building and maintaining software. Am presently looking forward to having such an environment again. But when thought was going to be doing office work for a living was indeed looking at a IoT edition of Windows because that's what's optimal for that job. There ought to be reasons for running a given software package.
>>27484>There are a few things which seem to be hard. Namely knowing to make backups, comment out configuration, or use version control, and knowing when to stop trying things, and use search, or forums, or just stop.Those are good computer practices anyway but for some reason people don't consider that at all. How much ass would've been saved if people used restore points in Windows. But people just go on, with all of their 9999 viruses and bloatware.
>>27477Go fuck yourself, I wrote my 400 page dissertation in LibreOffice and it totally floored the MS Office suite, not even comparable
>Seamless insertion of elaborate figures prepared in LO Draw and imported as a metafile, including spectroscopic data>Powerful macro system>Robust document structuring system capable of reproducing my university's retarded thesis requirements>Far more performant, obvious when manipulating large documentsLO is insanely underrated, its only flaws are in trying to reproduce MS Word's rendering of docx files. This is, in fact, a direct result of Microsoft not adhering to their alleged 'standard'. Even then, it can handle basic docx files fine. If you're not working with retards that insist on MS Office, LO suite is incomparably better
Michaelsoft Binbows 10 :3
>>27538built for BAC
big advertising companies >>27541"Oh, yes, Mr. advertizer, HARDER!!"
It is "Free As In Freedom™©" and I like using Linux because it is free and it doesn't force install copilot AI on my pc or isn't like OSX where it scans all my computers files for supposed 'illegal content'.
If I reinstall Windows I have to spend hours manually installing programs by clicking through installation windows
If I reinstall Linux I just trigger my reinstallation script and come back in 30 minutes and my machine is identical to how it was before I reinstalled the OS, minus a few missing details that require manual steps
I know what one's easier.
>>28031in principle writing the script takes the same effort as writing on a terminal, except the script can be reused so it will be easier from the second time on. but the script also gives you a better structure and an overview of the whole process, so it will probably represent less effort even on the first run. specially for complex requirements like reproducible builds and environments
>>28032guess I'll learn ALFS to get a grasp on how to make such scripts
>>28031>⬆️⬆️ to pull up "sudo nano /etc/nixos/configuration.nix" from bash history>type name of program in list of programs in the user of choice, or in the environment to share between all uers>⬆️⬆️ to pull up "sudo nixos-rebuild switch && sudo nix-collect-garbage -d && cowsay Milk is ready!">Wait a bit to install _____
< Milk is ready! > ————-
\ ^__^
\ (oo)\
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(__)\ )\/\\
||—-w |
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>>28031>implying writing a whole script is easier than clicking buttonsThe anon meant copypasting a config and then typing a command to install everything. The anon's wording is just a little bit autistic, obviously writing a goddamn script is goddamn harder, duh. This is /tech/, you are stuck with us here, deal with it or leave.
macos is comfy, the real problem for me with buying a mac is that the hardware is worthless trash and breaks constantly and then apple screws you even if you have applecare. this has happened twice, with different macs. both times it was a well-known issue that was affecting many, many people who bought the same model as me, both times the apple store told me it would cost over a thousand dollars to fix, and both times i bought a new laptop for the same price instead. the second time i didnt buy a mac. lesson learned. its fine. while macos is comfy, linux is better anyway. you have to use wine for *slightly* more software but it's not that big of a deal because you have to use wine for half of your software on macos anyway. none of your issues have been an issue for me or anyone else since like 2012. if you were trying to install linux on a mac then yeah, they've done their best to ensure there are going to be driver issues. not surprising. locking you into their shit has been their entire move on all of their products for decades. if you have a mac and it hasnt broken yet then you might as well just use macos.
>>27331anyone have any gentoo waifus??
>>28034I've been using nix-darwin and home-manager on my Mac. Quite nice.
I know next to nothing about computers or terminals or commands, and still am very happy with switching to Linux Mint. Its like Windows, minus all the annoying parts.
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