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/AKM/ - Guns, weapons and the art of war.

"War can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun." - Chairman Mao
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File: 1639891092961-0.jpg (1.1 MB, 2048x1015, Ruger_PC4.jpg)

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 No.355

These seem like the way to go for cheap, widely available personal rifles.

Share advice on models, ammo, magazines etc.

 No.357

why not an ar-15 pattern carbine?

 No.358

>>357
I meant to say in 5.56

 No.359

>>357
>>358
gun laws

 No.361

when i get that bump fire just right

 No.362

>>355
The CZ Scorpion is probably one of the cheapest and finest firearms in this category. I hear the Stribog now has a delayed blowback model, though, the advantage of the scorpion is the availability of cheap parts as well as a binary trigger if you really want to replicate the submachinegun feel.

>>359
What gun laws let you own a PCC but not a 5.56 carbine? There are good reasons for choosing a PCC over an AR, but I've never heard of gun laws as one. What state?

 No.363

>>362
canada. there was a crackdown on ARs recently because of some false flag spree killing with barely hidden connections to the RCMP
https://archive.md/FHZVF
anyways, a lot of semi-auto carbines in general are perfectly a-ok to own, you don't even need to register one

 No.364

File: 1639961577304.jpg (859.13 KB, 2795x3726, Type 97.jpg)

>>363
I have heard that the Chinese Norinco QB Type 97 is an excellent and cheap substitute for the ar-15. Only available in Canada not America, it is a modified semi auto only version of the PLA standard issue type 95.
-awkward controls
-excellent balance
-lightweight
-short profile with bullpup design
I would prefer one of these bad boys and some nice optics for the price of a comparable standard ar15 without optics

 No.365

>>364
Typ95/97 is a mediocre gun, ar-15 has far more development put into it so it is more reliable and better performing. Also completely off topic since this thread is about pcc.

 No.367

>>365
>Typ95/97 is a mediocre gun, ar-15 has far more development put into it so it is more reliable and better performing
How so specifically? Does the type 97 malfunction more frequently? Is the accuracy worse and significantly so?

 No.368

Back to the topic of pistol carbines, I'm not sure if there are suitable rounds for use in urban settings but afaik pistol calibers have a greater danger of barrier over penetration than intermediate rifle cartridges do. So there is a greater risk of hitting bystanders. Something to consider.

 No.373

>>368
Wait why? I would expect rifle rounds to have higher chance of over penetration due to having much higher velocity.

 No.377

>>368
get hollow-points (usually labelled JHP)
they're ideal for urban settings in a lot of ways

 No.381

>>373
Intermediate rifle rounds are higher velocity and energy but lower weight. 5.56 will lose a lot of energy after initial impact and start to breakup. Pistol caliber rounds retain more energy and keep going.

 No.382

I like PCC's, but getting one with an NFA-legal barrel length if you are a burger greatly reduces its utility in my opinion. The key advantages it has over a SBR chambered for a rifle cartridge seem to be a compact barrel length that doesn't detract from the velocity of pistol cartridges, along with less muzzle flash, concussion and potentially recoil depending on what you are comparing. Shooting something like a 10.5 inch 5.56 AR-15 in a closed room just sucks even with hearing protection when it's unsuppressed.

 No.383

>>382
Does a long barrel pcc have any negative impact on ballistics?

 No.384

>>355
>These seem like the way to go for cheap, widely available personal rifles.
Not cheap. Decent ones are as much as regular rifles. Also the ammo is not cheaper. About the same price .223

 No.389

>>383
No, it's just an issue of handling. A 16" barrel would actually impart greater velocities, but it's widely accepted that this would make no difference on the target.

 No.392

File: 1640137901872.jpg (72.85 KB, 600x1040, Kornheiser_Why.jpg)

>>355
well let's look at the FX-9 here
>AR like but complete re-build
>some components better
>keep the charging handle

 No.393

>>367
The trigger is godawful because it's a completely standard AK trigger with a transfer bar. The whole thing is just an AKM in a modified housing.

 No.394

>>393
It also has poor ergonomics (at least the Type 97 and older Type 95 does). The safety selector is on the butt of the rifle far away form the trigger. The carry handle is really tall which makes the sights uncomfortable to use while prone. The rifle design is from the 80s so it wasn't really built to use optics, all it has a tiny bit of proprietary Chinese rail on the carry handle.

For a general overview see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRvV4v1FjAo

 No.396

>>393
>>394
Is this why they're switching to the QBZ-191?

 No.404

>>396
Main reason is probably that trying to convert an existing system to a bullpup is going to give you significantly worse results than coming up with a new system. Bullpups come with a variety of tradeoffs that have to be managed even when they're designed to be one.

 No.406

>>393
>>394
These problems are largely restricted to the gen one model. The carry handle was replaced with a rail mounting flat-top and trigger improved in the gen 2 and then 3 model.
Also it uses a shortstroke piston not a long stroke, like an ar-15 rather than an akm. Altogether and with 5.56 NATO ammo the type 97 has very mild recoil and good accuracy afaik.
The safety mechanism is still terrible yes. It has been moved to the front on the new military models, perhaps the next iteration of the export version will be modified in this way as well.

 No.1768

hamsics and ancom flag???
anyways they’re rocking PCCs

 No.1772

File: 1651102776904-0.jpg (1.55 MB, 4032x3024, 8qdpfknq4jk41.jpg)

If you possess Superior Floridian Genes then you're required to get a KelTec PCC. If not then I guess get whatever you want.

 No.1820

>>362
Some states ban particular weapons. In my jurisdiction the AR-15 is banned so your only way to get your hands on a 5.56 carbine is buying a Mini-14

 No.1879

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Most PCCs are overpriced range toys or aimed toward police departments that don't trust their pigs with real submachineguns or AR-15s. The exceptions are the Hi-Point carbines and the Kel-Tech Sub2000 which are worth consideration. You can get the former for like $270 and the latter for around $500. They occupy a niche in that are an economical substitute for an AR-15 for rifle problems and home defense/ fighting inside buildings like a pistol or shotgun. The higher end ones are pointless.

So 9mm is the best caliber for the PCC and the best kinda ammo is 9mm NATO, 124gr ~1250 fps. Hi-Point makes .380, 9mm, .40, .45 and 10mm carbines. Only the 9mm and 10mm are worth consideration because everything else has awful ballistics and fails to do the niche thing PCCs can do like quick accurate shots out to 100-150 yards. 10mm that's actually loaded beyond the energy of .40 S&W is like $1.40/rd and always out of stock. There is an ideal of a 10mm Carbine with like 1500 fps with a 180gr round and doing 1000+ ft/lbs energy from the barrel deadly 20-30-50 stendo round assault clips. You can modify any .45 hi-point mag to feed 10mm by pinching it's feed lips closer then it will hold capacity +10%. 44 Round 10mm drum mags.That's all cool but let's consider 9mm carbines to be the only real choice because the main draw of a Hi-Point carbine is being cheap and 9mm is the cheapest.

So for 9mm options, Kel-Tech takes 32rd Glock magazines is extremely lightweight and folds in half. Hi-point takes single-stack magazines of dubious quality ranging from 10 to 20. It's perfectly adequate. It's not a combat weapon unless you have to. Then donkey-dick 9mm stendo assault-clips, almost do it.

>>383
Most pistol calibers reach max velocity at about 12". There's no real reason to get a barrel longer than 16".

 No.1970

>>1879
hi-point 995 seems like a great economical urban carbine for when you can’t get an AR or whatever


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