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/AKM/ - Guns, weapons and the art of war.

"War can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun." - Chairman Mao
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 No.38

DIY
-Personal Armour
-Vehicle Armour
-Structural armour

Instructions, specifications, theory.

 No.39

Best armour: don't get shot.

 No.40

>>39
Yes. Hence keep light. However there is a very cheap, easy and effective design for personal armour that I am aware of that will allow any civilian greater protection and lighter weight kit than any of their nation's soldiers. The Main materials used are high hardness ceramic, aluminium, and some type of fabric, I'll touch on that in my next post. All supplies for 2 full sized chest plates can be bought from a hardware store or online for under $100 USD iirc and offer better performance than any armour used in miliary applications anywhere in the world. That is why I made this thread in the first place. I will organise my resources and make a post again when I have something decent drawn up for you guys.

 No.41

File: 1636654939193.jpg (196.91 KB, 1024x768, cartel meme wagon.jpg)

>>40
I will also make a later post on the superior application of this armour type for hardening civilian vehicles as might be used for a "technical", a civilian vehicle converted for military applications. I have seen a lot of sloppy cartel coffins and jihadi wagons such as picrel that appear to just be steel plates welded onto pickup trucks or vans. These plates offer modest protection, at best with thicker plates from a heavy machine gun. But they seriously encumber the vehicle and reduce the great agility of an unarmoured technical. A believe a lightweight ceramic armour adapted to vehicular use could offer cheap diy vehicle hardening capable of similar protective capabilities but without significantly encumbering the vehicle and capable of being installed in such a way as to remain inconspicuous and appearing like a normal vehicle, depending on specific application and coverage.

 No.290

>>41
Real uparmored HMMWVs use steel and other materials like panes of laminated glass (I'm talking inches and inches thick. They are not a worthwhile endeavor to pursue for your average prepper lefty types. You're better off with an agile vehicle. Remember the original HMMWV had no armor or even body panels. Those ragtop vehicles were for fast mobility in and out. If you want armor, you need an actual APC or a tank, and if you have that, then you shouldn't be worrying about DIY, because you clearly are running a whole state.

 No.291

File: 1639188870157-0.jpg (49.26 KB, 480x360, hilux with mg.jpg)

File: 1639188870157-1.jpg (372.33 KB, 1920x1080, toyota hilux.jpg)

>>290
I was thinking more of installing inconspicuous ceramic based plates around critical components of a civilian vehicle. Say if we take a standard toyota hilux and insert ceramic based armour plates inside the driver and passenger doors and perhaps similarily built into the walls of the truck bed or constructed into a "coffin" that can be inserted around a well for installing a low mounted light machine gun, improvised mortar, or any other available equipment, as the role of the vehicle would call for. So that the driver, passengers, and gunner can brace under fire for a limited amount of protection.

 No.293

>>291
Hiluxs aren't remotely conspicuous the moment there's a gun on them, everyone will be checking for a gun immediately if they see one.
A smarter move with the materials would be taking apart the panels of the passenger side of the car, reinforcing it, and adjusting the suspension to deal with it. Now you've got a reinforced driveby car.

 No.294

>>293
Naw you would have a mounting in the gun bed that you can place a homemade lmg (modified civilian assault rifle) in. It should be able to be affixed and disattached easily from the mounting point on the gun so it can be scooped off as the gunner dismounts
>A smarter move with the materials would be taking apart the panels of the passenger side of the car, reinforcing it
Yes that is essentially what I am suggesting, dissembling the panels and inserting a ceramic plate. I am estimating the armour used should be able to stop a heavy machine gun or certain antimaterial rifles, and it will weigh muuuch less than steel plate thick enough to stop a heavy machine gun.

 No.295

File: 1639190811507-2.jpg (84.71 KB, 986x658, oz0cjov72wp41.jpg)

File: 1639190811507-3.jpg (8.92 KB, 150x113, t55_enigma_s5.jpg)

File: 1639190811507-4.jpg (97.05 KB, 600x400, t55_enigma.jpg)

t-55 enigma
>>It's basically an upgraded Iraqi T-55 with ridiculously sized armour.. r

 No.296

And to be clear as far as the vehicle goes you would be uparmouring whatever is available to you, your vehicle would appear almost identical to an unmodified specimen

 No.309

I don't know anything about anything. What do you mean ceramic? You talk about this stuff being easy to obtain but how easy is it to create?

 No.314

>>309
>What do you mean ceramic?
High hardness ceramic that will break up a bullet as it is hit. As a primitive and readily available example PEI5 ceramic floor tiles meant for use in high traffic areas.
>You talk about this stuff being easy to obtain but how easy is it to create?
I do not know how hard it would be to make high hardness ceramics from scratch if that's what you meant. The cloth cover can be made by hand and substituted for other available materials, I am not sure how hard it would be to forge suitable aluminum. The materials themselves are cheap and widely available however, like I mentioned. Hardening of large surfaces and structures would probably require different materials to remain affordable however.

Here is a basic outline for creating a simple 3 layer ceramic based ballistic plate. Denim front, ceramic layer, aluminum backer, glued together using construction adhesive. It uses PEI5, the highest hardness of standard floor tiles. All materials are available at either your chosen hardware store or online retailers.

This plate design in particular, although leaving room for improvement, has shown to stop 2 shots each of M193 ball and m855 with a steel penetrator spaced 4 inches apart and shot out of a 16 inch barrel with minimal to no surface deformation of a clay substrate simulating human flesh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEDMQ7jalU4

 No.2093

Gonna revive this thread soon with an analysis of the new .277 fury round military version.

 No.2095

>>2093
It'll be a year or more until we can do that. All of the stuff SIG has shown the public has been with the 80k psi stuff, and I guarantee the army isn't going to release the specs of the XM1186 until they can knock the X off the front of its name.

 No.2096

>>314
OP i dont get the science, what about high hardness ceramic stops bullets? Is it just because it shatters it absorbs the force? But then why doesn't glass work? Why does ceramic make for a good bullet stopper?

 No.2097

>>2096
Ceramic is both incredibly hard and shatters, allowing it to disperse the impact over a much wider area than something like steel. Dispersing the energy over a wider area is what saves you.

For example, the US army considers 59 ftlbs (80 J) to be the minimum force for a bullet to be lethal. That's not a lot of energy. In fact, Mike Tyson at his peak was able to put 1,600 J of force behind a punch. However, a punch has much greater surface area than a bullet. That 1,600 J is spread out over an average of 5,675 mm^2, whereas the bullet is focusing all of its 80 J over only 48mm^2. This means that even though the bullet has only 5% of the energy, it's dumping almost six times as much energy per square millimeter into the target.

Ceramic's shattering not only spreads out the impact over a larger area (about the size of a golf ball), but the micro-cracks are able to turn the thickness of the armor into a sort of secondary surface area. Their small size means they have an exceptional amount of surface area to spread it out over, and the smaller the cracks are the better it performs.

 No.2098

>>2097
oh thanks for the explanation anon. So would any ceramic tile work for lower caliber/velocity rounds? For handgun or to achieve like equivalent of 3a armor would like a pei3 or something tile doubled up work? Also could you bulletproof a car by just adding a bunch of ceramic tiles within the doors/etc?

 No.2099

File: 1654809616897.jpg (1.62 MB, 2500x5500, plate_carriers.jpg)

>>2098
I'll be honest anon, if you actually think you'll be in a situation where you need body armor, you should invest in a plate carrier and some plates along with a helmet. I wouldn't trust my life to something I made out of bathroom tile and concrete. Pick any one of these, get some cheap level IV SAPI plates (you can probably get two plates for under $300, I know RMA Defense sells them in pairs for around that), and get a FAST IIIA ballistic helmet for another ~$500 or so after that. You're now basically ready to be an insurgent on a budget.

 No.2105

>>2099
What if you're in a jurisdiction where body armor is banned? Can you just make some out of bathroom tiles?

 No.2106

>>2105
If you really have to make your own, here's what you should do:

1. Get a slab of 1/4" thick PEI 5 porcelain, cut it to the size you want
2. Back it with 5 layers of welder's nylon
3. Put another slab of porcelain, and another 5 layers of welder's nylon
4. Back the whole thing up with 1/4" of UHMWPE. This is the part that goes against your chest and catches the bullet if it gets through the other layers

It'll definitely stop 7.62x39, unsure if it'll stop 5.56x45 because even though it has less force, speed is what gets through armor. Will definitely stop any pistol round i can think of.

 No.2145

>>2106
You're thinking on the right track.

So the UHMWPE you can buy like as a cutting board has zero ballistic protection. It's some kinda fuckin wizard science to do with the structure of the molecules and how they are arranged, that UHMWPE ballistic plates stop bullets. With ordinary UHMWPE like with a cutting board, it's molecules are disordered, it's just plastic, it won't stop shit. Nylon is also pretty useless. Ballistic nylon just isn't.

You're on to something with the PEI 5 porcelain tiles though. A more proven design would be to copy cheapo plates like the Hesco 4401 which uses Alumina, polyurethane and a fiberboard backing.

So these PEI 5 tiles aren't very expensive but are very hard, not quite as hard as alumina though. Polyurethane is sold as truck bed liner. The fiberglass you'd need is the fiberglass cloth like used to make boat hulls that's pasted on in layers with export resin.

So, I would make an improvised plate with a tile, adhere it to a thin stainless plate as a crack arrestor. Idk if the corrugated side of the tile should face in or out. Then back it with about 16 layers of marine fiberglass cloth. This is a tedious pain in the ass process, BTW. Then coat the whole thing in truck bed liner. Might also add a thin layer of foam on the strike face and edges for drop protection. Wrap it up in nylon clothe so it's pretty.

I've been meaning to make a few plates like this and shooting them, but have never gotten around to it. I suspect they'd be thicker and heavier than a real plate also flat and not comfortable to wear but should stop pretty much any rifle bullet.

So they make fiberglass board designed to stop bullets. It's used in bullet-proof architecture like security guard boothes, saferooms for rich people and blast-resistant federal buildings and the suchlike. It might be possible to order a sheet and use that as a backing but idk.

 No.2157

>>2098
Lower hardness ceramic tiles are far less effective but pei5 tiles are available in most hardware stores as tiles for high traffic floors. I have seen a light design with PEI4 tiles peforming at a II or IIIA level iirc however.
>Also could you bulletproof a car by just adding a bunch of ceramic tiles within the doors/etc?
Yes and I will show you guys my knowledge on how to do that. But you need to consider shatter resistance from regular wear and tear and minor vehicular collisions. The bonus is that you can conceal it within the car body and door panels for stealth.
>>2099
DIY plates are fine enough for personal protection imo even though you won't necessarily get the guaranteed quality control that comes from a ceramic armour manufacturing line. If you can buy from the same source and test the resistance of say 100 plate samples of sufficient dimensions at a rating higher than intended for protection (like say 1 round 30-06 ball for level III plates or 1 round 30-06 AP blacktip for level 3+ plates) then test 20 fully assembled ones on an anatomically accurate ballistic gelatin model or clay block then you can call it "safe enough" for the rating of protection required for your combat unit. For 200 dollars you can get a set of plates and some material to run a limited number of trials for. This is a lot cheaper than 300-500 bucks for some level III+ or IV plates and leaves the option for additional tailoring to the armourer's needs. This is especially attractive for those looking to produce armour for multiple soldiers, to produce armour for sale or stockpiling, and/or to produce armour in a jursidiction where the sale of armour to the subject is restricted or prohibited.

 No.2158

>>2105
Yes.
>>314
See video I attached.
>>2106
An aluminum backer is superior to nylon or bullet resistant fabric like kevlar or aramid. It also remains rigid after impact to prevent energy transfer to the backface (you) and deflect spall away from the impace site. IMO the ideal is, from the back:
outer vinyl weather resistant layer->jute or denim->high strength aluminum->denim or jute+epoxy binder (lightweight as it gets very heavy proportionately to increased armour capability)->ceramic->denim/jute->tense lightweight wire grid (to bind the front of the plate together tighter to the back of the plate keeping the plate together better after impact and increasing performance)->jute/denim spall layer->outer vinyl weather resistant layer
I have discovered in my research that a softer jute/denim material is actually superior to bullet resistant fabric for dispersing the energy of a ballistic impact as well as being much cheaper, more available and lighter. I need to read more however as I am not sure if it would suffice as an anti-spall layer in the front and possibly back although it appears to do so for the model in vid linked. I'm also not sure what padding or anti spall layer if any may be needed behind the aluminum backface for regular and reliable wear. The clay seemed fine behind a ceramic/denim/aluminum plate and multiple shots from greentip increased penetration 5.56 NATO at atleast a III+ level, however I am not sure of how real use would hold up and under different and repeatable circumstances. The metal wire layer I have only read about in research for Australia's ceramic vehicle armour where it was very effective. I am not sure how it could be used for personal armour but IMO the principle is the same. Perhaps a plastic like high strength nylon would work.


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