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Anime, even as it is more popular and mainstream than ever before in the West, has really lost its relevance. What do I mean? Anime doesn't really inspire people anymore. It's not a statement about its quality, but I mean its real life impact.

In the 70s, 80s and 90s anime was almost a youth movement. In the Philipines, Voltes V was a symbol against the Marcos Regime and was banned because of this. Gundam inspired millions, it caused massive quasi-political rallies of young people who followed the show's idea of a new generation building things better. The police literally had to shut this down. Then by the 2000s there was Haruhi and so on which, if maybe not so political, really did get people out onto the streets and again got the police called on them. Conventions were a serious culture. Even if anime at this point was really inbred, it still brought people out. But nowadays there's no such thing. It's not really that subversive or exciting. Conventions go on but they aren't like what they were (no yaoi paddles). We do still get like loads of children wearing Demon Slayer cosplay but it's not like Yamato. There's this energy that just isn't there anymore.

Perhaps this is because in Japan itself the street movement has died down and become so neutered? It's sort of related to how anime has lost its left wing creators. The people working in the 80s grew up in a really radical time where socialism and anti-imperialism were normal and most people directly interacted with that crowd. Naturally, even if works weren't explicitly socialist, the attitude was reflected. Nowadays that political movement is completely dead. Radicalism is hated in modern Japan. Serious topics are still covered in progressive ways, but something is lost. I don't know, lets take season 2 of GITS SAC where Hideo Kuze is just openly right, the show tells you he is correct. And then in Psycho Pass which is only 10 years later but with a completely different set of people making it who have a different philosophy (the director only really started working in the 2000s), the bad guy just does bad things and is a psychopath, and then the only reasonable option is to uphold the system when given a chance to change it. Maybe the issue here is just GITS is much better written, but I think this can explain a sort of change in anime.

It's not that radicalism can't be shown since the 2000s, its just they are always single characters acting as lone terrorists. I think the shift happened around Code Geass and Death Note. It's a shift to lone wolf protagonist fighting against the system practically on their own and who is importantly 100% morally wrong (even if their grievances are understandable). The reason behind this is because radicalism in Japan has become lone-wolf, short sighted, and right wing. Basically incel radicalism. There's no more communist revolution or even Mishima to show in anime, only losers burning down animation studios and maybe doing something cool and killing the ex PM. Of course there still are anime that go against this trend. But if anime is the base and anime fans are the superstructure, anime as a whole has bent the superstructure away from collectivism and real life stuff.

Yes this is rather vulgar and not essay quality but I was just thinking about this and needed to write it down. Also I was thinking after watching a video, why did 4chan hate IBO so much. That show was actually really good but they despised it. IDK.

Eh, feels more like a dry spell. Have a feeling it'll pick back up.
Could be the loss of physical media might be an aspect of it. People would pass around tapes and DVDs of OVAs, now that things have been direct to streaming it probably effects the content and how people engage with it.

>In the 70s, 80s and 90s anime was almost a youth movement. In the Philipines, Voltes V was a symbol against the Marcos Regime and was banned because of this. Gundam inspired millions, it caused massive quasi-political rallies of young people who followed the show's idea of a new generation building things better.
I've heard about Gundam and Macross before. Where would you start with 80s mecha anime?

>It's a shift to lone wolf protagonist fighting against the system practically on their own and who is importantly 100% morally wrong

Do you think this shift is correlated with the rise of the otaku demographic? While media particularly marketed towards otakus came to be late 90s/early 2000s, anime that exists outside the conventions set by it has more or less ceased to exist.
>Serious topics are still covered in progressive ways, but something is lost.
This is what you get when you try making an "anime" about a serious topic. People went nuts about the "edginess" of Goblin Slayer, when the only things that set it apart were the rightoid brainworms and the fetish shit.

>>26108
>I've heard about Gundam and Macross before. Where would you start with 80s mecha anime?
With Gundam, start with the original TV series. People recommend the movies but I think they're worse because they cut a lot of stuff out. The original Gundam is my favourite anime ever made. Then watch Zeta and Char's Counter Attack. Zeta has a new main character and its sort of the best and most quintissential 80s mecha show. The writing is amazing and its a must watch, though it has some mixed female characters with some of them being great or even amazing and others (a single one really) being atrociously written. You can skip double Zeta, the issue isn't that its lighter in tone but that it is really mediocre in its writing and themes. Char's Counter Attack is the end of classic Gundam and is about the two most important characters. Also there's War in the Pocket, which is a short side story. Often its introduced as a good entry but idk. It's still great. I think Gundam is still really important. If you like Gundam try out Tomino's other stuff. From the 70s and 80s I most recommend Zambot 3 and Ideon. Dunbine and L-Gaim are also pretty good and worth watching, especially for the mechs and mech designers. L-Gaim is a bit like ZZ but kind of better if I'm going to be honest even if its not really my thing (also spawned a manga by mech designed Nagano and the film Five Star Stories of which there is a sequel released in like 2011 that is only shown at private screenings and not released properly to my frustration), and I actually really like Dunbine even though the ending is a mess. Ideon is the one you really need to watch out of all of them though, especially the movie. Zambot 3 I love. It is legitimately like top 5 most fucked up TV shows I've watched but manages to not be just shock horror. Oh also there's Xabungle, I actually haven't watched it yet but I hear its close to being peak fun Tomino.
As for Macross, I also suggest you watch the TV series but maybe with more caviats. I don't think Macross is as deep a show as Gundam, but it's still good and even exceptional in a lot of ways. The fights are a lot more dynamic than in the original Gundam and there's of course space idol Minmay. Still it's pretty 1970s Space Battleship Yamato core. A lot of interesting plot also goes on but I just don't think it touches on as deep themes, has as well written characters or as grounded a setting as Gundam. I'm not sure if the romance is that amazingly written either, even if I think the main character ends up with the best love interest. Then there's the Macross movie which isn't really a standin for the TV show. It has 80s movie quality art and animation and actually expands on the story in a lot of ways. It was the highlight of Macross for me.
The other show I highly recommend you watch is Armoured Trooper Votoms. It's kind of the 3rd most important 80s mecha show and the director is also pretty prolific. The mechs are outstandingly done, its like the most realism wank mecha. There's also the spinoff OVA Armoured Hunter Mellowlinks, which is really solid. It's about a guy killing mechs with strategy and an anti-AT gun. Really cool. If you like Votoms try out Takahashi's other stuff. Dougram is a must watch if you're into 80s mecha and a leftist, it's inspired by Fanon (sort of, I think someone said it in an interview). Not to say Takahashi was necessarily a leftist (he ended up doing pretty fascist stuff later) but I think its an example of how in that era this was the norm. The story is really outstanding, if you like a long political series it's probably better than Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Lastly there's Layzner, which I like and does some interesting stuff. The mechs are cool and the animation is good (after the first episode). It has an unexpected and really gripping twist, turning it into a completely different show in the second part. Unfortunately the show doesn't capitalize on it properly and it got canned, there's an ending OVA at least.
A show I hear is extremely underrated is Vifam, I haven't watched it but it sounds interesting and I 100% plan to.
As for shorter shows, the most important are Patlabor and Gunbuster. The Patlabor OVA is really good (though I don't think its a masterpiece) and is pretty much the most grounded mecha. It's good fun and I like the characters a lot. There's also a plot at the end. Gunbuster is probably the best intro to 80s mecha for a modern anime fan. It's short, feels modern and otaku-y (not necessarily a good thing but it works here), has amazing 10/10 art and direction and most importantly tells a complete story really effectively. Absolutely a must watch, and in fact I implore you to watch it now if you haven't. That being said it won't beat the real stories because it isn't really all that deep. It's a short, simple and effective show. I don't think this would inspire people like Gundam or Macross might. Apart from these there is M.D. Geist which is barely mecha but everyone always includes it. I think its really cool and its a bit of a meme. Absolutely a must watch in my opinion. It is actually just edgy and not really deep though. Like its basically what if the main character was a murder hobo. I love it. By the same guy there's Genocyber which is famous as the goriest anime ever. It's really edgy but beyond that actually dark. I love both of them, highly recommend.


Also, I understand your frustration with just edgy shows and such. Edgy does not mean depth or even a serious show. M.D. Geist just doesn't feel serious to me despite how edgy it is and how much I love it. All those edgy Isekai are not serious. I think thats why I love the original Gundam so much. It's not super dark or edgy or anything. I actually hate all the Gundam fans that just want the series to be only dark and gritty and to have no Newtypes when they're the whole point! The original series is a serious war story about characters that have fun times despite the situation and it ends hopefully even if it is really sad and characters die. It's about somthing, it's not just "mecha but dark", it has a reason to exist from the characters to the themes and the actually really grounded setting. Yeah newtypes and so on and the 70s animation has limitations, but the show was actually pretty cutting edge on its science in a lot of ways like the O'Neill cylinders. Space acts as space and not the air or sea.

I got this picture from here: https://blog.alltheanime.com/the-day-anime-changed/
It's a good read. Ironically I only found it after watching a youtube video in the topic. Maybe the reason people aren't out at conventions so much is because of social media like youtube. But I think social media isn't such a bad thing. It really helps us connect together. Social media might be the most revolutionary thing that has come about thanks to modern technology and phones. It is literally built by users, by normal workers and young people. I don't use tictoc but it is objectively progressive. Perhaps anime has just been moving to this online social media landscape. I think its a hopeful future.

>>26107
Yeah. I mean I obviously wasn't around for trading Yamato tapes or even the early 2000s, but even over my time in the counterculture there has been a clear trend away from physical media, which gets shared around. People don't want to read my manga which I offer to lend them. Today most people read manga on their phones. They prefer the scrolling nature of manhua instead of the amazing spreads you get in manga. I'm not sure I can accept this shift just yet, and phones are objectively the worst way to consume manga, but this is the reality of how most people, and especially working class people, consume the medium. So whilst there's a shift away from physical media the interest isn't going away.

People still love talking about anime. You're right, it is a dry spell but it's not like there hasn't been worse.

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You are on /leftypol/ and yet you refuse to apply the dialectic. Anime and its culture no longer seem as impactful because of globalization, adoption of the internet, and soft power from cultural export. It’s the same reason nerds aren’t physically bullied and forced into a corner for playing counter strike and liking dnd anymore. Anime grew out of a manufactured post war economy. It was exported to America by advancements in home media. It was marketed for export by cable networks. It was consumed thanks to ease of access of streaming platforms. No longer does one need to seed torrents or buy the dvds to watch formative highschool. A crunchy roll subscription gives you both seasons of Akagi. The cultural touchstone of toonami has turned into a billion dollar business and krillin only had to die twice. Shows like legend of the galactic heroes are funded by a massive government backed industry instead of financed by crazy wealthy neets. It’s all to placate and garner global favor of the biggest consuming block in the world.


I say all this and I’m 700 episodes into one piece. I eat this slop with chopsticks.

>>26109
Thank you for the detailed response, i will definitely get back to this after finishing Koi Kaze. At the moment watching anime is going pretty slow for me though. Most of my time spent watching media is during dinner, so i'm always hesitant to put something on, if i may not be paying attention all the time. Currently i'm just watching Seinfeld.

>Social media might be the most revolutionary thing that has come about thanks to modern technology and phones. It is literally built by users, by normal workers and young people.

I think the social media revolution you mean started with bulletin board systems and ended with imageboards as the medium with the lowest barrier of entry. The endless scroll-type of social media is not designed for people to convene, but to leech off of the labor of a cottage industry, creating an isolating maelstrom of disconnected "content". I would argue the only geniunely social media "normal" people are still involved in are phone messaging, hobby forums and the horror that is disc0rd. My only solace is the continued survival of places like this, where i'm confined to simply by being protective of my personal data.

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>>26106
A lot of those creators who partook in the student movements are old farts and regret it nowadays. I also never understood why people thought Gundam was left-wing. Tomino has only ever openly supported right-wing political parties, he has full interviews just hating the DPJ. Fukuda for Seed is posting racist right-wing pundits on his twitter account calling kurds terrorists lmao and I can keep going on with the amount of prominent gundam figures that are just bad.

Here is the craziest one, the person who created the term "yaoi" is also a right-winger. Japan's shit is out of whack and if you want more examples, the thread in my image is a crazy deep dive into major anime/manga figureheads that are problematic as hell.

>>26114
I wasn't saying Tomino was left wing, he's extremely lib boomer. But the important part is that Gundam and so on came from this time of left-wing influences. I can't remember the name exactly but there was at least one important writer in Zeta Gundam (and maybe the original? I can't remember) who was involved in student protests in the 70s. Tomino wasn't the only one working on Gundam, and even if he was the enviroment he lived in would be reflected in his work.

But the thread is not really about Gundam anyway. It's about Oshii and Miyazaki just as much (both who have become rightoid / apolitical boomers over time, probably due to them receiving economic success and no longer wanting to work so hard anymore).

>>26112
This is the kind of analysis I want to see in here instead of an equivalent of a YouTube essay.

>>26113
>I think the social media revolution you mean started with bulletin board systems and ended with imageboards as the medium with the lowest barrier of entry. The endless scroll-type of social media is not designed for people to convene, but to leech off of the labor of a cottage industry, creating an isolating maelstrom of disconnected "content". I would argue the only geniunely social media "normal" people are still involved in are phone messaging, hobby forums and the horror that is disc0rd. My only solace is the continued survival of places like this, where i'm confined to simply by being protective of my personal data.

Imageboards are the last bastion of revolutionary social media?
Now youre just being a boomer here.

Theres doomscrolling on imageboards and nothing but shitposts and whining about zero pussy.
All the other platforms you described ironically has more outgoing people.
And as for imageboards being safer for data privacy?
I beg to differ.
Imageboards rely on adverts as well.
And lets not forget raids.

>>26109
>>26115
Tomino is still based at least

>>26114
People think gundam is left wing because it portrays terrorists as revolutionaries, just like ‘muh Star Wars is like Vietnam’. The problem is that it still falls under the guise of traditional notions of good guys and bad guys and is seen in the lens of individualism a la giant robots and main characters. The more apt show for ‘left leaning’ or at least space opera with nuance, is Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Its gundam without the gundams.

>>26154
>People think gundam is left wing because it portrays terrorists as revolutionaries,
Where does it do that? I thought everyone always took Gundam as a WW2 metaphor and Earth Federation is the Allies and Zeon is the Axis. Pretty straightforward uncontroversial allegory for Western audiences.

>>26155
Isn’t the show just the adventures of white base going around fucking shit up against a group that justifiably seceded? (I didn’t really watch much original gundam to be honest, this hand of mine does glow with an awesome power, though.)

>>26154
I would say Gundam is left leaning. But LoGH (despite being a really good show with a lot of nuance) is moreright leaning, the thesis ends up being that the bonapartist dictatorship is better than democracy and the creator means it to support Imperial Japan. Gundam does reject Imperial Japan very thoroughly and even critisizes the end of history american one world government. Doesn't mean its socialist at all, it is a very idealist show after all.

>>26156
>a group that justifiably seceded?
It's a little murky because while the Earth government is exploiting and oppressing the colonies the original revolutionary movement was co-opted by space aristocrats one of which is explicitly said to be space Hitler.

The Zabi/Zeon government is essentially taking advantage of burgeoning colonial nationalism/spacenoid supremacy to wage a war of independence/political inversion to place themselves on top instead of the earthnoids.

I think the real problem is people trying to politicise anime.
Sure there were a few politically charged bangers but the majority of anime from the beginning was just a new genre of entertainment for the youth

>>26628
Seen way too many mangas/anime where people flock to it believing it represents their beliefs and then it turns out the creator is pretty shit

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>>26156
>Isn’t the show just the adventures of white base going around fucking shit up against a group that justifiably seceded? (I didn’t really watch much original gundam to be honest, this hand of mine does glow with an awesome power, though.)
I'm not saying the allegory follows reality or not, but it is very obviously a allegory of WW2 and Nazis. Zeon even has a based called fucking Axis. Literally everyone understands Zeon is supposed to be Nazis.

I mean they say fucking "Sieg Zeon." It's so fucking on the nose. That anyone can miss it makes me cry for today's critical reading watching skills.

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>>26630
The fucking mechas even where Nazi helmets. They use potato mashers and panzerfausts. HOW COULD ANYONE NOT GET IT?

>>26156
>Isn’t the show just the adventures of white base going around fucking shit up against a group that justifiably seceded? (I didn’t really watch much original gundam to be honest, this hand of mine does glow with an awesome power, though.)
The basic premise of the show is that Aryan spacenoids want to create a spacenoid master race and do away with Earth people because living in space gives you psychic powers. The show follows a good spacenoid with psychic powers fighting to stop the bad spacenoids. Hope that made it clear for yuh.

>>26158
One of the cool things about Gundam unicorn is that it briefly talks about the political dynamic between Earth and the colonies and how existential this conflict is for the Earth government because the colonies have the (theoretical) resources of the entire solar system, so Earth has to keep their boot heavily on the spacenoids' neck for as long as they can, otherwise the balance of power is going to rapidly shift.

>>26629
They do the same for music and movies.
Irony is, methinks the dumbing down of pop culture is due to people trying to make things more profound than they need to be.
As the popular saying goes: Art for Arts sake.
.most of our genuinely profound masterpieces are often made when the creators were just noodling around wanting to make something because a mood struck them.
They weren't intending to make a statement in the first place,it just happens.
Meaning is only found when you let the art speak for itself.


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