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/edu/ - Education

'The weapon of criticism cannot, of course, replace criticism of the weapon, material force must be overthrown by material force; but theory also becomes a material force as soon as it has gripped the masses.' - Karl Marx
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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1686242481097.jpg (Spoiler Image,193 KB, 1280x1924, f6c4f171-4b1e-4377-ad0a-01….jpg)

 

Are they the most revolutionary class, or are they reactionary? I think they are the most revolutionary because they are the most oppressed. In fact, I don't see how you can make a revolution without the lumpen.

Especially in America, where the regular proletariat (labor aristocracy) has been fully bourgeoisified and proudly supports the imperialist bourgeoisie in everything they do.

Fuck jannies btw

File: 1686242757344.jpg (146.68 KB, 1246x1600, FxZKBjrWAAc-9B2.jpg)

It depend.

They are human reserves by design. Give all of them work and income and rest of the problems will sort themselves out. Lumpen revolutionary potential could be relevant as technology and automation progresses.

can be the greatest allies and hired muscle for reaction, the lumpenprole guys I hang with are p receptive to commie economics

https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/periodicals/red-papers/red-papers-2/franklin.htm

>>13028
4chan is an odd kind of lumpenbourg, 20-30 year old permavirgin white IT workers, with a limited mix of lumpenprole, substance users, NEETs, people on disability, the mad, autists, queers and PoC. Largely, 4chan is dominated by false consciousness and very reactionary. I want to help out channers but I'm not sure how.

>>13028
>The lumpenproletariat is passive decaying matter of the lowest layers of the old society, is here and there thrust into the [progressive] movement by a proletarian revolution; [however,] in accordance with its whole way of life, it is more likely to sell out to reactionary intrigues.

>>13028
Karl Marx was lumpen so pretty reactionary typically.

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I've met lumpens with class consciousness but most of them in my country are incredibly reactionary and cutthroat, people that would set an orphanage on fire in exchange for nike shoes and a big TV. They also tend to be extremely anti-intellectual and violent so trying to educate them feels like playing monopoly with a coked up chimp.

>>13029
who is this faggot

>>22375
>They also tend to be extremely anti-intellectual and violent so trying to educate them feels like playing monopoly with a coked up chimp.
based

>>22378
it's a gigachad photoshop of leonid brezhnev

>>22375
>nike shoes and a big TV
>playing monopoly with a coked up chimp.

are you… american…? are you… dogwhistling?

>>22408
I'm Chilean and those people I'm talking about are quite often white as fuck because Chile doesn't really have the same race related wealth inequality as the U.S, not until very recently at least (Haitians have been arriving for a couple of years and they're mostly poor as hell). But Haitians in my experience as super proletarian. Look up "Chile flaite".

gay and retarded yet reliable and loyal once convinced and educated. everyone else is a fickle bitch

lumpens are just people that got proletarianized and didnt end up holding down jobs
they're a mishmash of different origins and characters
there's no point analyzing some essence in them as a whole

>>13028
After reading steamy yakuza bl and a certain hampton think article, I have some conclusions:

First of all, the category of lumpenprole has always been associated with the disintegrating feudal classes, and this doesn't accurately depict that modern groupings that we would picture (at least in the US, the only region I'm discussing). There's a wide swath of semi-proletarians, that includes gig workers, contract or agency workers, and self-employed with little to no capital. Some of these jobs are illegal. E.g. a drug dealer is just a self-employed person with a small amount of capital. Full service sex workers often work for an agency, and fall under agency workers. There are various types of mules and laundering/fall-guy jobs, which falls under contract or gig work. I'd class people living solely off welfare (unless also engaging in work outlined above) separately, and assume them to be more or less tied to the current state and it's continuity (unless a stable and livable alternative is given), as well as NEETs, and assume they will prefer stability of their family unit (also, unless an alternative is given). Both are relatively degrading (usually) and not aspired to, so these people should be considered in the typical lumpen way as being bought by the highest bidder.

These people may be working class and need supplemental income, they may be homeless and jobless, they may be middle class or stable working class with upward aspirations, or they may be failing petite-bourgeoisie who have to resort to small-time self-employment. So there's obviously no one way we should expect these people to go. Among all of them there's a lack of typical workplace discipline experiences, unless they are currently regularly employed. Some people choose these lines of work because they refuse workplace discipline. Subjectively, there's overall a petite-bourgeois aspiration among most of these people, because there's not much hope outside of that. Either because previous criminal or taboo activity makes getting regular work hard, or because they have no job skills and experience, so the only hope is to keep making money and eventually have a bundle of capital to turn into a legitimate, gainful, and safe business.

I think we should respect them as semi-proletarian, and as being more or less an offshoot of the proletariat, while noting an upward mobility/consumerist/get-rich-quick ideology among many individuals (which is not different from the rest of the proletariat, it's just that most regular workers don't see an avenue for those aspirations, while the hustler class lives those aspirations).

The stance the proletariat should take towards the hustler class as a whole should be to make sure they are part of their local communities rather than predatory atomized individuals, and to be ready to provide aid when their precarious income fails. For the criminal semi-proletariat, the party of the proletariat should make a bid for governance since the government has both attacked and widely dismantled organized crime, while refusing to serve certain areas (and making certain professions/activities unable to access law enforcement help because they'll get just get arrested or worse). There's a deficit of governance and mediation for drug dealers, sex workers, and mules (though i never hear complaints around this). A proletarian party should attempt to be a mediating force rather than a punishing force, in order to gain a first foothold for its overall bid for governance.

Overall I think there's a lot of room, since the fall of old organized crime and the laziness of pigs, for a proletarian party to take on some of the roles that organized crime used to (e.g. mediation and arbitration, local loans, extortion of business, welfare programs, and so on), but with political motive rather than profit motive.

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>Marx
<lumpens unlike proles dont associate with each other and/or dont work in critical parts of production which means they wont/cant take a united stand against capital therefore they lack revolutionary potential
>leftards
<oh so this means theyre EVIL and deserve to get fucking EXECUTED against a wall - no wait, this means theyre the MOST epic and revolutionary class!!!!

This place gets more and more lobotomized each passing day, holy shit.

>>22410
>gay and retarded yet reliable and loyal once convinced and educated. everyone else is a fickle bitch
Yeah back in the old days. These days pfuhh let me tell you. Tgese young guys turn state as soon as they're pinched. No one follows da code a silence anymore. Gabbagaboosh, it's a ne mario.

File: 1720424188528.jpg (404.41 KB, 1093x709, donut7a.jpg)

>>22418
>No one follows da code a silence anymore.
>young guys turn state as soon as they're pinched
too true, dropping my claim. just remembered 48 hours

>>22416
i hate homeless
source: was homeless

>>22417
>"The lumpenproletariat, this scum of the depraved elements of all classes, which established headquarters in the big cities, is the worst of all possible allies. This rabble is absolutely venal and absolutely brazen. If the French workers, in every revolution, inscribed on the houses: Mort aux voleurs! Death to thieves! and even shot some, they did it, not out of enthusiasm for property, but because they rightly considered it necessary above all to keep that gang at a distance,, Every leader of the workers who uses these scoundrels as guards or relies on them for support proves himself by this action alone a traitor to the movement (Selected Works, I, 646). "
- Engels

>"Alongside decayed roues with dubious means of subsistence and of dubious origin, alongside ruined and adventurous offshoots of the bourgeoisie, were vagabonds, discharged soldiers, discharged jailbirds, escaped galley slaves, swindlers, mountebanks, lazzaroni, pickpockets, tricksters, gamblers, maquereaus (pimps), brothel keepers, porters, literati, organ-grinders, rag-pickers, knife grinders, tinkers, beggars – in short, the whole indefinite, disintegrated mass, thrown hither and thither, which the French term la boheme; from this kindred element Bonaparte formed the core of the Society of December 10. A “benevolent society” – in so far as, like Bonaparte, all its members felt the need of benefiting themselves at the expense of the labouring nation. This Bonaparte, who constitutes himself chief of the lumpenproletariat, …. here alone rediscovers in mass form the interests which he personally pursues, „ „ . recognizes in this scum, offal, refuse of all classes the only class upon which he can base himself unconditionally . . . (Selected Works, I, 295). "

- Marx

>"China’s status as a colony and semi-colony has given rise to a multitude of rural and urban unemployed. Denied proper means of making a living, many of them are forced to resort to illegitimate ones, hence the robbers, gangsters, beggars and prostitutes and the numerous people who live on superstitious practices. This social stratum is unstable; while some are apt to be bought over by the reactionary forces, others may join the revolution. These people lack constructive qualities and are given to destruction rather than construction; after joining the revolution, they become a source of roving-rebel and anarchist ideology in the revolutionary ranks. Therefore, we should know how to remould them and guard against their destructiveness."

- Mao

>"The lumpen-proletariat, once it is constituted, brings all its forces to endanger the “security” of the town, and is the sign of the irrevocable decay, the gangrene ever present at the heart of the colonial system, (p. 104)"

- Fanon

Idk seems like everyone, especially Marx, held them in low regard. If anything the turn away from russian communism and towards Mao in the new left causes the lefties to see the lumpenproletariat in a much more positive light

>dont work in critical parts of production which means they wont/cant take a united stand against capital therefore they lack revolutionary potential

Bakuninist understanding of revolution. 2nd international is that way ->

>>22438
>engels
<faggot rich who headed failed revolutions
>Marx
<overrate chickenshit
>Fanon
<do not who this is but sounds like a retard
>Mao
<ungrateful rich bitch who was eager to dismiss
>Bakuninist
<cunt who got what he deserved


>>22438
Bakunin thought the lumpen had revolutionary potential, he had a big pissing match with Marx about it.

>>22438
>quoting mao
lol might as well quote ronald reagan

>>22448
this, a decent propagandist and strategist, a shit administrator and theorist

>>22449
also worth listening to his guerrila warfare books

20 fuckin years

>>22449
>Mao
>Bad theorist
America take

>>22452
chin take

>>13028
that picture makes me want to become an upstanding member of society


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