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/edu/ - Education

'The weapon of criticism cannot, of course, replace criticism of the weapon, material force must be overthrown by material force; but theory also becomes a material force as soon as it has gripped the masses.' - Karl Marx
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Why do people continue believing in ghosts or souls after Phineas Gage?

I see a handful of religious leftists on here who believe in souls, ghosts, and even silly things like an immutable "National Character" inherent to geographic regions. They usually use these things as an excuse for reactionary idealism or outright sadism.

The "self" is a function of biology, rather than an eternal and immutable immaterial thing.

>Phineas P. Gage (1823–1860) was an American railroad construction foreman remembered for his improbable  survival of an accident in which a large iron rod was driven completely through his head, destroying much of his brain's left frontal lobe, and for that injury's reported effects on his personality and behavior over the remaining 12 years of his life‍—‌effects sufficiently profound that friends saw him (for a time at least) as "no longer Gage". 


>Phineas Gage influenced 19th-century discussion about the mind and brain, par­tic­u­larly debate on cerebral local­i­za­tion,​​ and was perhaps the first case to suggest the brain's role in deter­min­ing per­son­al­ity, and that damage to specific parts of the brain might induce specific mental changes.


Absolutely spooked reactionaries to this day continue to believe we have little ghosty ghosts created by God that determine our personality, our disposition, the kinds of choices we make in our life, and that in turn determines which fictional realm our ghosty ghosts get sent to after we die. When, in reality, something out of your control like an illness or traumatic brain injury can fundamentally change who you are and how you act and the kinds of decisions you make.

Spooked reactionaries are sadists who want to continue to punish people for how the machinery of their brains work, rather than closely study people to determine a path to changing behavior without torture, imprisonment, capital punishment and other reactionary spookery. They say "actions have consequences" not realizing that the "consequences" of actions are socially constructed or that crime and other taboo behaviors are rarely deterred by the severity of punishments.

 

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Simple. Souls are stored in the brain. Case closed.

 

>>15891
and if 33.3% of your brain is damaged in a dynamite accident on a railroad in 1848, does 33.3% of your soul go to heaven? What if you sin and are unrepentant after that? Does the remaining 66.6% of your soul go to hell?

The idea of a soul has no explanatory value/

 

>>15890
The body is a vehicle the soul is the pilot. You can't pilot a vehicle with a broken steering wheel.

 

>>15891
Based and Retardpilled

 

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>>15892
Purgatory

 

>>15893
>The body is a vehicle the soul is the pilot.
shinji get in the robot
>You can't pilot a vehicle with a broken steering wheel.
what is the soul made of? where does it come from? where does it go?

 

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>>15895
Purgatory has anthropological origins in religious history.

New ideas developed around 1200 of a transition period for souls after death during which some could atone for wrongdoing before entering heaven, while others might eventually drop off into Hell. Ideas resembling purgatory predate Christianity, but the specific Christian idea of purgatory dates to between 1100 and 1300, and was elaborated on in fictional works by writers like Dante.

 

Answers to some of your questions OP.

 

>>15898
Tvlcel babble

 

>>15896
Where did you come from, where did you go?
Where did you come from, Cotton-Eye Joe?

 

>>15892
That portion of your soul becomes one with the Flying Spaghetti Monster in heaven, Ramen.

 

>>15892
Don't you know Anon, that part of the soul is what gets touched by Cthulhu's Tentacle mouth as the Great Awakening of the Elder God.

 

>>15890
Our culture has not evolved at the same speed as our scientific knowledge.

 

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>>15899
mooooooooooooooooooods they're dodging the word filter!

 

>>15898
Big Krit said it better

 

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>>15891
wow so like in the heckin pineal gland, just like joe rogan said!!!!

 

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i've said before that the subject is a specific type of cybernetic controller. the "soul" is a material process and neither eternal nor immutable. its raison d'être is responsibility. responsibility is the state in which a controller's setpoints are simultaneously process variables. to illustrate what i mean, consider the classic example of a cybernetic controller: the thermostat. when you set the thermostat to 69*F, that temperature is the controller's setpoint. the controller uses a sensor to measure the temperature of the room. this is the process variable. the process variable is compared against the setpoint and if they don't match, the controller acts to bring the two together. but a thermostat is not self-aware like a responsible subject is. the consequence of this self-awareness, this being-for-itself, is to force the responsible subject to consider its setpoints, its desire, as process variables within the controlling feedback loop. thus the responsible subject is capable of molding its own desire, not freely but willfully. if there is any meaningful materialist basis by which to say there exists "souls", this is it.

 

>>15907
>the soul is just a self aware computational feedback loop that is entirely materialist

at that point you're just taking a metaphysical concept and turning it into a physical concept. You're redefining a word for something that doesn't exist and providing it with a definition that does exist. It's a rhetorical sleight of hand. Souls in the sense that the term is usually used still do not exist.

 

>>15908
>It's a rhetorical sleight of hand. Souls in the sense that the term is usually used still do not exist.
the ordinary usage of the term points to real aspects of subjectivity, but it interprets them to be ideal in nature. flipping ordinary usage on its head reveals that they are material in nature and structure the ideal. the reason i still call it "spirit" is because this material process is unique to the human subject (perhaps being exhibited at a more rudimentary level in other animals), and possess many of the same empirical and practical hallmarks of what has tradition has typically called "spirit" and saddled with much metaphyscial and mystical baggage.

 

>>15890
I don't know if Phineas Gage is the best example. While changes to his personality were reported, it was hear-say rather than anything remotely scientific and the conversation around Gage was greatly exaggerated after his death. Contemporaneous reports about changes in his personality were all relatively mild changes, the claims that he became a completely different person only coming forth after he had died.

>Spooked reactionaries are sadists who want to continue to punish people for how the machinery of their brains work

You're the one who's spooked if you deny that people have a self and a will because that self and that will are formed by the laws of the material universe.

 

Even if your account of Gage is true, that just means that the brain is instrument of which the soul uses to act. A damaged instrument playing off-key music doesn't mean you can make meaningful conclusions on the musician.

Not saying that souls exist, but that this account doesn't prove anything beyond the details and insights on the brain.

 

>Dialectical materialism rejects any break between consciousness and matter. For such a break would, in essence, signify a return to the primitive, ignorant views of early human history, when all the phenomena of life were explained as due to a soul that was supposed to enter the body and control it.
from the fundamentals of marxism leninism. the idea of the soul is idealist.

 

Neuroscience is gonna kill philosophical dualism, the core & heart of every sort of schizophrenia and woo-woo ever.

 

OP has the right idea but asks too simple a question that's easily deflected with the whole "brain is an antenna" kind of cope. Here are some better ones.
<Where is the soul and what is it doing before it becomes attached to your body?
<When does a soul start existing?
<What happens to the soul of a body that never forms and gets miscarried/aborted as a zygote/blastocyst/embryo/fetus (before whatever point the soul enters the body)?
<Do babies born without brains have souls? What about people who become braindead but are still alive?
<Do animals have souls?
<When did homo sapiens first acquire souls?
<Does Cancer Dog[1] have a soul, and is it distributed among its many examples?
<What about the soul of Henrietta Lacks[2]?

[1] Cancer Dog https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/contagious-dog-cancer-batteries
[2] Henrietta Lacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrietta_Lacks

 

>>15912
>the idea of the soul is idealist.
tbf if the soul existed it would be a material fact, it would just be part of you that exists outside your body kind of like your reputation does. the problem is not that souls are idealist but that they aren't real.

 

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This is a stupid debate. It literally doesn't matter if souls exist or not.

 

>>15891
Revisionism. The soul is stored in the balls.

 

Thank you OP for obliterating the Freudians and other quack science has disproven ages ago. Metaphysical nonsense has no place in our movement.

 

Drive metal spikes through the skulls of christoid biotrash

 

Actually I would rather completely eliminate all life if it weren't for a belief in the supernatural. You all come off as wealthy white children whose cute little lives just started and everyone kisses your ass even when you act like a shitter.

 

>>15919
this, so much this

 

>>15920
>Actually I would rather completely eliminate all life if it weren't for a belief in the supernatural
skill issue
>You all come off as wealthy white children whose cute little lives just started and everyone kisses your ass even when you act like a shitter.
meds

 

>>15890
>The "self" is a function of biology
so its real?

>>15912
are souls and selfs the same?

 

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>>15923
>so its real?
who's asking?

 

>>15923
>so its real?
ask your self

 

>>15917
what if no balls?

 



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