Was the tiananmen square massacre really a massacre or a spook? Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 04:56:46 No. 17902
I read this article and it claimed that leaders of the anti-gov protesters were acting entirely in self interest and that majority of casualties were soldiers of the PLA who were murdered by the protesters when they tried to solve things peacefully.
Is this true? I don't trust western propaganda one bit but this is the tiananmen square massacre!? I don't want to jump to conclusions right away. What are your thoughts on this?
I also tried to check the sources and I got a 403/404.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 04:59:34 No. 17903
IIRC one of the leaders of the protesters openly admitted she was hoping it would turn into a massacre to galvanize people against the government.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 05:19:56 No. 17916
reminder also that 'Tank Man' isnt even from the right day as the tinyman square protests.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 05:21:32 No. 17917
but but but the wikipedia article says that the chinese
don't even know any of this happened
because they used the brain erase ray from Men In Black
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 05:37:08 No. 17918
All the images of actually dead people completely support the narrative that there was a small group of armed protestors who lynched initially nonviolent PLA soldiers (since actually armed soldiers prepared to fight wouldn't just get lynched in the middle of the street) first and then were killed in combat when of course backup was sent. There was no actual "massacre" in that the deaths were all actual armed combat and even then it's only a few hundred at most like the CPC numbers say. None of the evidence or initial western testimony (who all stated that there was no actual killing in the square) suggests otherwise.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 05:41:14 No. 17919
Really it boils down to "how the fuck can an armed military supposedly sent on orders to massacre people end up getting lynched by civilians?" That simply just isn't possible if the PLA instigated.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 05:47:04 No. 17920
if you show glowdditors the pics of the PLA getting lynched i have seen them unironically suggest that the PLA threw their own hats onto dead civvies like how up their own ass can their heads be
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 05:58:03 No. 17922
Seems moderately plausible - but what of the photos of bodies seemingly destroyed by tank treads?
Didn't know people though protesters were killed anywhere besides the streets. I don't buy that the CPC weren't firing on the fleeing, though.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 06:07:23 No. 17923
>>17922 >I don't buy that the CPC weren't firing on the fleeing, though.
you're too stupid to know the difference between the "CPC" (a political party) and the PLA (china's army) so nobody cares what you do or don't "buy"
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 06:07:34 No. 17924
>photos of bodies seemingly destroyed by tank treads
What photos? there are none.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 06:08:33 No. 17925
anon sometimes there's pics of bikes that got run over, so that means the people on them also got run over hehehehe
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 06:09:46 No. 17926
>>17922 >I don't buy that the CPC weren't firing on the fleeing
behold the sinophobic brain. when cops in america run over protesters nobody says "the democrats ran over protesters today" or "the republican party ran over protesters today"
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 06:19:14 No. 17927
So the story is the PLA first came in peacefully but got brutally murdered, the gov then understandably got pissed and escalated things from there. If this is the case then I don't really see how this is a massacre, sure there were probably lots of innocents hurt in the crossfire and maybe they got a little too mad, but it wasn't some unwarranted attack. It's kind of disheartening to know that everything you once treated as fact is now just false. I'm just constantly always surrounded by lies all the time, I need to get out of this country.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 06:25:01 No. 17928
Didnt protestors take over armored vehicles?
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 06:26:08 No. 17930
yeah it's in the news footage posted here
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 06:28:00 No. 17931 >>17927 >the gov then understandably got pissed and escalated things from there.
The square was cleared without any kind of 'massacre', the around 200 dead civilians comes from people who broke into armouries or stole PLA weapons from the soldiers and were killed in skirmishes with the PLA outside of the square.
>>17928 >Didnt protestors take over armored vehicles?
Yes this as well.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 06:36:26 No. 17932
Also for a look at how a Capitalist country handles this take a look at this.
(2300 dead Protesters)
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 07:13:10 No. 17934
>>17906 >hey im just going to post gore and a shortened link without context
what is this, /b/?
at least you gave warning, props for that
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 07:25:56 No. 17937 >>17936
it was covered by chinese media when it happened. do you really think the country has amnesia about it? no. you're just westoid who ironically believes his own government's lies about other countries.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 07:26:24 No. 17938
it's not a shortened link, it's an archived link, in case the original article gets removed. There's a difference.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 07:31:10 No. 17939
There is a difference, but in this situation the difference doesn't matter. The destination (or in this case, source) is disguised, removing metadata that would give a viewer context.
Hence, if I don't see a title or explanation to supplement it, I ain't clicking that shit uigha.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 07:43:33 No. 17940
>>17937 >you're just westoid
no & stopped reading
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 07:53:37 No. 17942
the important part came before that, so glad you got it through your thick skull
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 07:54:33 No. 17943
full video was deleted by Youtube for "violent content" but remains on Vimeo
>六四真相～解放军战士被残忍砸死、打死、烧死。谁在高度克制？谁在残忍行凶？ <The Truth about June 4 ~ PLA soldiers were brutally stoned, killed and burned to death. Who was exercising a high degree of restraint? Who was brutally committing murder? https://vimeo.com/437562258
no subtitles though
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 08:05:55 No. 17945
Actually, this too is a segment from a larger half hour documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjFwQTbHYKk >b-but the CCP hides it!!!1
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 08:07:51 No. 17946
Alternate Vimeo link since Youtube restricts it to logged in accounts
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 08:14:35 No. 17947 >>17944 >muh frozen peaches
If you want braindead dogma, go join a religion. We engage in critique and analysis. That's a core aspect of Marxism and any decent model of… anything. And to do that, you need to learn about the good, the bad and the ugly. Even China knows this, that's why they admit their party's role in intensifying the Great Famine, and that's why they've been able to understand how to stop that happening since.
uygha that's a USA-owned platform don't strawman over that
at least strawman over something like the Baidu Baike page not mentioning any incident or protest, or the year 1989 whatsoever.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 08:18:45 No. 17949
source for this claim please anon?
some of the protestors were maoists ironically lol
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 08:20:31 No. 17950
Ah yes, the two irrelevant parts! I did read those, they were fucking stupid.
>it was covered by chinese media when it happened.
Who cares, that is not a counter-claim. They still continue to censor or control writing about the topic.
>do you really think the country has amnesia about it?
I never made that claim or suggested it. I know that word-of-mouth and counter-censorship exists, and that mentions of the incident can be found on Chinese web search. That is not a counter-claim.
<inb4 someone says 'USA does that too'-ism
USA is not a basis for a system of ethics
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 08:22:15 No. 17951 >>17948
how are you getting this defensive?
go back to disc0rd.gov
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 08:23:29 No. 17952
I mean to be fair I think the CPC did a lot to fuel the events of the protests by basically reintroducing capitalism and then stopping before letting American capital totally pillage their country but yeah there was literally American glowies discussing at the time about at the least preparing to send military aid to some of the protest leaders to "fully liberalize" China and try and conduct a coup and possibly funding them from the start.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 08:40:06 No. 17955
>>17937 >do you really think the country has amnesia about it?
No, despite all efforts to inflict it.
>you're just westoid
It's unbelievable how dialogue has degenerated into "East/West" chauvinism on a Marxist forum, even if this is an imageboard. It makes you pine for the days of endless Gamergate threads.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 08:42:51 No. 17956 >>17912 >>17941
hey i can play this gaem two
(I appreciate that some they point out are clearly alive, and I believe all are, but some of the descriptions here are very inconclusive, you can't confirm just from the arm position and a still image)
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 08:52:41 No. 17958
not that I necessarily disagree but define marxist forum, describe /r/socialism, define edginess pls if possible
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 09:12:42 No. 17959
This sort of discourse is "extracting condemnations". It's the conversational form of the thought-terminating-cliche. Demanding condemnations is a consensus defense mechanism, learned from habit and reinforced by the fragility of liberal thought. Once it happens the person is not listening or hearing, but waiting for a catch22 of a response with no right answers so that they can asuade their mind of the validity of their held beliefs.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 09:32:03 No. 17960
Ok I mean I don't think this is a particularly "liberal' thing you are describing though? Not sure what your point is?
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 10:46:05 No. 17961
>>17903 >It didn't but but if it did it was there fault
Baugette 2023-06-13 (Tue) 10:48:06 No. 17962
The June Fourth Incident and casualty tolls on both sides only goes to show that Chinese people have more revolutionary spirit than any Anglo country
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 10:54:05 No. 17964
Basically, someone that only ever has critique for everything around is a liberal. It's a very mindless, detached worldview because it can't be any other way.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 10:54:42 No. 17965
- Marxist forum:
Threaded social site dominated by discussion of Marxist theory and its decedent variants, officially aiming to promote Marxisms, or restricting membership to adherents.
The mythologized idea of a bad place, you hate it. Related:
lassalle was a jewish nigger
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 10:58:10 No. 17966
I want to get a list of each ideology's example.
We all know the classic examples from fascists and M-L*s, but what is the classic example for, let's say, a libertarian, eco-rad, or proglib?
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 14:07:02 No. 17967
you cannot be serious. those guys suck american reactionary chauvinism like no other. the only revolution they could ever have would be like 1776 all over again
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 14:10:37 No. 17968
All archive links show their source at the top of the page dummy
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 14:12:46 No. 17969
Censorship is necessary to prevent capitalists from flooding your society with misinformation. Q anon, Falun gong, and other schizo cults are what happen when you fail to prevent porky from controlling the narrative
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 14:14:55 No. 17970
I'm not an East chauvinist. I'm just a Westoid surrounded by westoids who believe Westoid lies about Eastoids
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 14:17:12 No. 17971
Tiresome victim blaming narrative
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 14:19:52 No. 17972
>>17927 >It's kind of disheartening to know that everything you once treated as fact is now just false. I'm just constantly always surrounded by lies all the time, I need to get out of this country.
You just need to realize that you are basically inside the kind of propaganda machine that the west tells you North Korea is.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 14:36:11 No. 17973
It's more an ideological mess than a machine. You are maybe not wrong in that we can see that 'every accusation a confession' holds true for all manner of reactionary. Conceptualizing it as propaganda is not necessarily helpful when it's just everything. There is no distinction between propaganda and not-propaganda. That's what the spectacle / critical theory people are pointing to.
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 15:08:39 No. 17974
>capitalist readers be like: hmmm today we will do bourgeois liberalization and we will crack down on people self organizations >students: wtf no you can't do this! >there is a massive protest >capitalist roaders up killing the protestors, accusing them of being the CIA, ending up liberalizing the economy >dengoids: mission accomplished, we killed the foreign agents, what a great victory for the proletariat, look china has the most billionaires forces of production now!
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 15:11:33 No. 17975
You aren't gonna question the ideas handed to you, huh
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 15:19:38 No. 17976
hope you get a socialist wage for defending the chinese bourgeois counterrevolution fellow worker
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 15:21:50 No. 17977
The most important question of the day is how to make a reverse Turing test for liberals
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 15:32:09 No. 17978
Where's the lie
Anonymous 2023-06-13 (Tue) 15:36:40 No. 17979
>>17974 >Capitalist readers be like: hmmm today we will do bourgeois liberalization and we will crack down on people self organizations
The student protesters at tinyman square were western backed color revolutionaries who thought Deng didn't go far enough with liberalization and also were butthurt racists who wanted African exchange students kicked out of Chinese universities
Anonymous 2023-11-18 (Sat) 21:07:27 No. 20963
The CIA is a raeely g00d epxplanatoin
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