Deng Xiaoping -- Economize Time and Energy Anonymous 22-05-23 15:49:29 No. 19751
Americans are a practical people and they always say: “Time is money.” They have a whole branch of literature—unfortunately, we Chinese know very little of it—dealing with the organization of business in industries and finance, showing young Americans how to save energy and take a shortcut to success. The latter are taught all that very well, and we should learn it too. At present we cannot permit ourselves the luxury of wasting time and energy. We live on the borderline of two social systems: the old, capitalist system is dying, and the new, communist system is rising. In these days we cannot live as did our fathers and grandfathers. Every day brings something new, and we should be able to see it with our own eyes, to judge and decide on it. But to do that correctly, we must know a lot. That applies to the working class in general and to every worker in particular. There is no time to work leisurely, with one’s sleeves down. We must work as economically, i.e., as cheap as possible. History had fated China—a comparatively backward country—to be the second to raise the banner of social revolution and to hold it aloft for 40 years now; she must fortify her material foundation if she is to continue the stronghold of the world revolution. To do that she must work feverishly, without letup, with the maximum economy of time and energy. (Excerpt from a talk with leading members of the State Planning Commission, the State Economic Commission and departments in charge of agriculture.) April 20th 1983
Anonymous 22-05-23 17:03:40 No. 19757
>>19755 The Nazis hated the Chinese and thought all East Asian philosophy was subhuman so your strawman doesn’t even make sense
>>19756 It’s not biology, it’s culture and values. If it were biological then the Han Chinese Superethnos would have never coalesced together into a cohesive whole, to say nothing of the Hui, Mongols, and other ethnicities
leftypol has never, does not, and will never READ Anonymous 22-05-23 19:12:16 No. 19765
Hello, it's me, the Dengist OP. It is that time of the thread, where, after getting some replies, I actually post where the original quote is from. In this case, we have Nadezhda Krupskaya's On Education (a selection of writings). I've attached the .pdf as well. I stumbled upon the book while reading Reminiscences of Lenin. It has a very nice section on Self-Education, which I recommend my comrades to read. I also suggest that you all should read the last four chapters of Reminiscences of Lenin, 1931. edition. Thank you, and have a good night. @elder_scroll_anon, here's another one for the list.
Anonymous 22-05-23 19:33:38 No. 19766
>>19765 Said deng beetle who changed the quote to completely change it's meaning, like from "fast" to "cheap". And also never actually read Lenin, nor the book in question.
Брысь под шконку, сопла фашистская.
Anonymous 28-05-23 07:34:08 No. 19778
>>19766 explain how this quote is changed. (it really is mao btw)
explain what mao meant by this.
alunya_dance.gif 28-05-23 08:00:25 No. 19779
>>19765 >posting non-Asian pragmatism quotes with a picture of Deng Finally, a proper new /leftypol/ meme.
It's been 2 years, but we finally have one.
Anonymous 29-05-23 15:42:25 No. 19788
>>19782 It doesn't actually demonstrate anything, though, beyond Dengists needing to deceive others to make China seem more in line with socialism than it actually is. The words of Lenin or Marx in the mouth of Deng will mean something else in that context. You could equally cherry-pick quotations from Marx and put them in the mouth of Hitler, or vice versa, and you'll have demonstrated just as little. What people are disapproving of isn't so much the quote by itself, but the quote in relation to the context in which it's set.
And Marx investing in the stock market, for example, doesn't demonstrate anything at all about how he thought socialism should be brought about. I can't figure out why that excerpt is posted ad nauseam in threads like this.
Anonymous 29-05-23 18:03:41 No. 19790
>>19788 you miss the point. If I took the
usual "communist-sounding" marx and lenin quotes and put them in the mouths of deng, and then never admitted that I was doing this, that would be trying to make deng seem cooler than he is.
but the point of this is that I am actually taking quotes from marx/lenin
that ultras think "sound capitalist" , attributing them to deng, and then, after they have spent a while coping and seething about how these quotes prove deng wasn't a communist, only then do I reveal that these quotes were actually marx lenin, etc.
So the "deception" is temporary, and is meant to be an exercise in critical thinking. The usual course of these threads is that the anti-deng posters don't look up the source of the quote, fall for the ruse, and after the ruse is revealed, they miss the point, and think I'm trying to do the former, and not the latter.
OG Tankie 29-05-23 18:24:14 No. 19792
>>19791 > When objectified labour is, in this process, at the same time posited as the worker’s non-objectivity, as the objectivity of a subjectivity antithetical to the worker, as property of a will alien to him, then capital is necessarily at the same time the capitalist, and the idea held by some socialists that we need capital but not the capitalists is altogether wrong. <Marx, Grundrisse > Indeed, even the equality of wages, as demanded by Proudhon, only transforms the relationship of the present-day worker to his labor into the relationship of all men to labor. Society would then be conceived as an abstract capitalist. <Marx, Economic & Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844 > But the transformation, either into joint-stock companies, or into state ownership, does not do away with the capitalistic nature of the productive forces. In the joint-stock companies this is obvious. And the modern state, again, is only the organisation that bourgeois society takes on in order to support the general external conditions of the capitalist mode of production against the encroachments as well of the workers as of individual capitalists. The modern state, no matter what its form, is essentially a capitalist machine, the state of the capitalists, the ideal personification of the total national capital. The more it proceeds to the taking over of productive forces, the more does it actually become the national capitalist, the more citizens does it exploit. The workers remain wage-workers — proletarians. <Engels, Anti-Duhring >It is not state capitalism that is at war with socialism, but the petty bourgeoisie plus private capitalism fighting together against state capitalism and socialism. […] State capitalism would be a gigantic step forward… because the continuation of the anarchy of small ownership is the greatest, the most serious danger, and it will certainly be our ruin (unless we overcome it), whereas not only will the payment of a heavier tribute to state capitalism not ruin us, it will lead us to socialism by the surest road. When the working class has learned how to defend the state system against the anarchy of small ownership, when it has learned to organise large-scale production on a national scale along state-capitalist lines, it will hold, if I may use the expression, all the trump cards, and the consolidation of socialism will be assured."<Lenin, The Tax in Kind (m-muh NEP though!!) > "It is our interest and our task to make the revolution permanent until all the more or less propertied classes have been driven from their ruling positions, until the proletariat has conquered state power and until the association of the proletarians has progressed sufficiently far – not only in one country but in all the leading countries of the world – that competition between the proletarians of these countries ceases and at least the decisive forces of production are concentrated in the hands of the workers. Our concern cannot simply be to modify private property, but to abolish it, not to hush up class antagonisms but to abolish classes, not to improve the existing society but to found a new one."<Marx, Address to the Central Committee > Within the co-operative society based on common ownership of the means of production, the producers do not exchange their products; - Marx, Gothakritik
"Our basic goal — to build socialism — is correct, but we are still trying to figure out what socialism is and how to build it." Deng Xiaoping, 1987 Anonymous 29-05-23 19:57:19 No. 19793
>>19790 >but the point of this is that I am actually taking quotes from marx/lenin that ultras think "sound capitalist", attributing them to deng, and then, after they have spent a while coping and seething about how these quotes prove deng wasn't a communist, only then do I reveal that these quotes were actually marx lenin, etc. Because, for Deng, the quotation
could demonstrate that, in relation to other evidence. When you attribute the quotation to "Deng," you're attaching it also to what is known otherwise about his positions and what he did in life, and this holds similarly for whoever else you might quote (truly or falsely). A quotation can be evaluated as additional evidence regarding Deng's positions, but it's never evaluated in a vacuum. I'd be surprised if a single person changed their mind from a thread like this. I came to this thread after the reveal, and the only thing it reinforced is never to trust anything cited without a source given that can be easily confirmed.
>So the "deception" is temporary, and is meant to be an exercise in critical thinking Identifying (mis)quotations requires knowledge of the sources more than critical thinking. Even knowledge doesn't guarantee you'll be right if the quotation "sounds like" something the person it's attributed to might say. I've been able to identify false quotations before, but this is only when I'm very familiar with the person it's attributed to, and the quotation sounds wrong stylistically or positionally. The difficulties here are compounded by problems of translation. In cases where a passage sounds like it might be from an author, it's going to be too difficult to tell whether it's just something unfamiliar or a translation issue unless there's familiarity with the actual source of the fake quote (including the exact wording of the translation). Critical thinking won't reveal it.
Unique IPs: 32