[ overboard / cytube] [ leftypol / b / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music ] [ meta ] [ GET / ref]

/edu/ - Education

Learn, learn, and learn!
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)


File: 1608528311277.jpg (162.13 KB, 945x641, 19fa54e2706190fb82d7457ed8….jpg)

 No.3570

https://anarchism.pageabode.com/anarcho/review-poverty-philosophy-karl-marx
This article claims that Marx's "Poverty of Philosophy" is just a slanderous book that has nothing to do with Proudhon's real theories.

Marx doesn't properly quote Proudhon or openly strawmans him. His claims about Proudhon being bad economist in the begining of the book sound laughable since Proudhon was respected economist in his time.

>Comparing Marx’s “reply” to what Proudhon actually wrote, it is hard to take the former seriously. Once the various distortions and inventions are corrected, little remains. Proudhon was right to suggest Marx’s work was “a tissue of crudities, slanders, falsifications, and plagiarism.” (Correspondance [Paris: Lacroix, 1875] II: 267-8) Worse, Marx himself twenty years later embraces in Capital most of the positions he attacks Proudhon for holding in 1847.


>The dishonesty of The Poverty of Philosophy has distorted our view of Proudhon’s ideas and the time is long overdue for a revaluation of Proudhon and his contributions to anarchism and the wider socialist movement. This does not mean that Marx does not, occasionally, presents a valid point – most obviously, Proudhon’s opposition to strikes was wrong as subsequent anarchists recognised – it is just that these are frustratingly few in the midst of so much distortion. So, yes, Proudhon’s mutualism – a form of market socialism based on worker-run co-operatives – does need to be critiqued but Marx’s book is simply not that work.


are there any counter arguments to this?
>>

 No.3574

https://youtu.be/pIaQwGKIRMQ
another proudhonist critique of "The poverty of philosophy" but in russian
>>

 No.3577

> Is "The Poverty of Philosophy" full of slander ahd lies?
Just like their work on Stirner and everything they ever wrote about Bakunin.
>>

 No.3581

>>3577
>Just like their work on Stirner and everything they ever wrote about Bakunin.

yeah, but "The Poverty of Philosophy" is comsidered to be one of the most important works of marxism

is it even worthy to read? the author of the article claims that Marx strawmanned Proudhon's positions
>>

 No.3582

>>3581
You answered your own question. It's worth reading simply to witness a young Marx at his most polemical. I don't think many marxists today have even read it. Perhaps it might be useful update some of his arguments so as to critique the renewed interest in market socialism we've seen over the past, I don't know, 15 years? For example, Gavin Mueller cited it in his critique of what he called "Digital Proudhonism" in a piece he wrote back in 2018:

https://www.boundary2.org/2018/07/mueller/

Predictably, someone at Center for a Stateless Society ("A Left Wing Market Anarchist Think Tank") responded:

https://c4ss.org/content/51323
>>

 No.3595

>>3582
C4SS's reply basically just repeats what was already attacked in the original article by Mueller (which is a good read btw). All this makes me even more sure that The Poverty of Philosophy is not slander.
>>

 No.3646

There is a lot of value in the book. It features:
A clear explanation of the hegelian system
The failures of the hegelian system
Incredibly entertaining polemic (Marx will literally work a joke into the structure of his argument and hit you with it 2 pages later)
Creates a clear refutation of market socialism.
It does contain some straw men of M. Proudhon but it's worth the read regardless.
>>

 No.3667

>>3574
First thing he does in the video is talking about "muh dictatorship of proletariat is bad because it is dictatorship and not democracy". It is a retarded lib video, not worth wasting your time even watching.
>>

 No.3688

>>3667
no, he doesn't
he says that MLs are communists and as communists they should support direct democracy (at least somewhere in the future) and not to openly support dictatorship which is what Politsturm did in their article.

also, he isn't a lib but an anarchist
>>

 No.4378

btw, is "The philosophy of Misery" by Proudhon worth of reading?

Unique IPs: 1

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ overboard / cytube] [ leftypol / b / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music ] [ meta ] [ GET / ref]