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/edu/ - Education

'The weapon of criticism cannot, of course, replace criticism of the weapon, material force must be overthrown by material force; but theory also becomes a material force as soon as it has gripped the masses.' - Karl Marx
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File: 1621348899602.png (45.43 KB, 300x300, chem.png)

 No.5724

Let's have a thread about chemistry. I can't be the only amateur chemist on here. To please the mods, everything in here is purely academic. Check local laws before you embark on your projects. And before you do anything, make sure you have appropriate safety equipment. Think about the worst thing that could happen to your reaction, because chances are it will. Don't be stupid.

Resources
https://www.sciencemadness.org/ The go-to site for amateur chemists
Wiki: http://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Main_Page
Forums, require email registration: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/

Archive.org has plenty of old chemistry textbooks. The most useful ones for me are those meant to teach youngsters from the early 1900's.

YouTube
NurdRage, the OG channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/NurdRage
NileRed, the internet's premier piss chemist: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheRedNile
NileBlue, secondary channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1D3yD4wlPMico0dss264XA
Explosions&Fire, energetic materials: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVovvq34gd0ps5cVYNZrc7A
Extractions&Ire, secondary channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvFApMFo_AafXbHRyEJefjA
Cody'sLab, chemistry and physics: https://www.youtube.com/user/theCodyReeder
ChemistNATE, educational: https://www.youtube.com/user/chemistNATE

 No.5725

post it on /edu/

 No.5726

Back from other stuff.
>>5725
Good idea. Perhaps a mod would be willing to move the thread.

Where to get chemicals
Useful chemicals can be found in many places. Read the material safety datasheets (MSDS) that goes with certain products. Useful places include:
Grocery stores
Hardware stores
Garden suppliers
Pool supply stores

Online suppliers in the EU:
https://www.amertek.co.uk/
https://keten.com.pl/
https://www.pyrogarage.pl/home_en.htm

Equipment
Get borosilicate glass if you plan on heating things. *Do not use soda glass*. If you don't know what you have, assume it's soda glass.

Places to get equipment include:
Hardware stores
Educational equipment suppliers
China, search for "lab glassware" on https://www.aliexpress.com/ . *Beware of Chinese suppliers selling soda glass as borosilicate*, there's a sciencemadness forum thread about this.

 No.5727

What's the coolest thing you've made? better not be homemade crystals from /b/

I've made simple explosives but only legally for film props. if there's a revolution you can count on me to have smoke.

 No.5728

>>5727
high temperature electrochemistry, but that's not very exciting for regular peeps. so, the usual: R-candy, smoke bombs and thermite

I have plans to "upgrade" some NaNO3 to KNO3 via metathesis with KCl. after that I might get into HNO3 synthesis by electrolysing bog water

 No.5729

>>5728
>mfw caught my chemistry-hobbiest friend collecting rust in a bucket
He insisted it wasn't for thermite, but come on.

 No.5730

>>5729
>I swear, it's for catalysing a fischer-tropsch reaction

 No.5960

File: 1622715455526-0.jpg (48.35 KB, 800x610, AcOH.jpg)

I've been experimenting with ways of concentrating acetic acid. pic related is 4 ml ~66% AcOH by weight based on it being liquid at -20°C. freeze distillation worked best for this, but the yield isn't great: 4%

I tried simple distillation too, and despite AcOH and H2O not forming any azeotrope I didn't see much improvement over the 24% white vinegar I started with. it also formed copper acetate in my condenser, which I should have thought about tbh

next step is trying to drive off the water by mixing in IPA and distilling off the IPA+water mix (and resulting isopropyl acetate). molecular sieves would probably work better, but I don' have any

 No.5961

>>5960
I forgot my freeze distillation method:

1) cool your white vinegar down enough to where it becomes a slurry and filter it until you get maybe 1/3 of the initial volume
2) put the mixture in a jar and stand it upright in a freezer
3) once the mixture has frozen, tip the jar over and let it sit in the freezer like that for a day
4) a small pool of liquid should have formed, separate from the frozen fraction. pour that off into a separate container

the concentration of the final fraction depends on the temperature in the freezer. the temperature must be above -26.7°C for this to work.

 No.7293

bumping with tips for EU comrades: sulfuric acid is hard to come by here, unless you boil and purify acid from old car batteries. but for many recipes sodium bisulfate (NaHSO4) works just as well. it's sold as a pH lowerer for pools, in the monohydrate form. it melts around 50°C too, so you don't really need to add water to it
more fun can be had in the pool department. TCCA is usually sold as a chlorination agent. in chemistry it is useful for generating chlorine gas by adding HCl. if you add ammonia (NH3) instead you will make NCl3, an unstable explosive

 No.8870

how 2 meth?
also, came across this a while ago, thought it was interesting https://simplifier.neocities.org/

 No.8874

File: 1639144742349.png (Spoiler Image, 138.6 KB, 666x507, image.png)

>>8870
>how 2 meth?

 No.8881

>>8874
joke

 No.9484

>>8870
it's been a while since I checked out simplifier. this one is kinda neat:
https://simplifier.neocities.org/electrochromic.html

I can recommend Caveman Chemistry:
http://cavemanchemistry.com/
the entire book is available online here:
http://cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/
if you click the links it won't actually take you to the relevant page, probably due to Referer being set. you need to copy-paste the links into the address bar for it to work

I have in mind to make a small (1 g) amount of nitrocellulose using stuff obtainable in the EU. should take a day or two

 No.9485

>>9484
cool. i've always wanted to have a lab for doing chemistry and physics experiments since i was little, never had the opportunity

 No.9486

>>8874
guides to make meth are abundant online actually. They are probably legal too

 No.9487

>>9485
I recently invested in some glassware and various salts, metals, NaOH and acids. enables fun little experiments. like making soap and biodiesel
I set up a nitration solution with some cotton in it. it's going to sit like that for 24 hours so I should have results tomorrow. I should be able to gauge the degree of nitration by weighing it after washing and drying

>>8870
>>9486
I actually looked up amphetamine synthesis and meth synthesis a while back. it involves mercury salts. noped the fuck out

 No.9488

>>9487
soap is cool. why would you wanna make biodiesel though

https://unitednuclear.com/ also, anyone have experience with these guys? they seem to source a lot of… unconventional commodities that other chemistry might not i think

 No.9489

>>9488
other chemistry suppliers*

 No.9490

File: 1642980095723.gif (22.12 KB, 122x186, nerd.gif)

>>9488
>soap is cool. why would you wanna make biodiesel though
just for fun. the process is similar except you substitute the water for an alcohol. might get a tractor at some point, would be useful then. grow hemp -> hemp seed + press + methanol -> fuel

>https://unitednuclear.com/ also, anyone have experience with these guys?

nope, but I love the site's aesthetics

 No.9493

>>9487
update: I set up another nitration experiment. first one has about 6 hours left to go

 No.9494

>>9493
update on the first batch: I washed and dried it. no change in mass. burns just like regular cotton. so that's a bust

 No.9508

>>9494
tending to the second batch at the moment. seems the sulfuric acid split up most of the cotton into shorter cellulose chains. so what I have is like a slurry mess. diluting it with water to see if nitrocellulose will precipitate
what I'm trying to do here is get away from the need for both sulfuric acid and nitric acid. first attempt was just NaHSO4 + NaNO3 in water, which was perhaps too optimistic. second attempt is concentrated H2SO4 with a bit of water + NaNO3 in it. might do a third attempt with more dilute H2SO4 and more NaNO3 because it seems the latter won't dissolve in conc. acid

 No.9531

File: 1643199992887.jpg (407.57 KB, 1200x833, wow such yield.jpg)

>>9508
alright the second batch had a pathetic yield that burns even worse than the cotton does. I think I just turned most of it into sugar ála this NileRed video: https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=vHuFizITMdA
my H2SO4 is ~80%, and it was in great excess
pic related is the final product. 0.28 g of crystalline something from 1 g cotton, 5 g NaNO3, 5.5 g H2O and 34.5 g H2SO4

 No.9532

>>9531
What are you expecting it is?
I've only done acid base extraction of DMT, and butane extractions of THC. Getting safe-ish chemicals where I used to live was hard and basically had to get extremely pure and expensive materials.

I also don't have the experience to handle NaOH, nor do I feel comfortable doing safe to smoke extractions with HCl acid. Instead I used lime (Ca(OH)2) and vinegar, both very food safe and safe to handle too.

DMT is a wonderfully fun drug and really easy to extract and purify. I ended up doing a vape pen with which I could have mild trips with more regularity. Very fun, very recommended.

 No.9533

>>9532
>What are you expecting it is?
longer sugars that don't dissolve in water as well as sucrose and glucose
>I also don't have the experience to handle NaOH, nor do I feel comfortable doing safe to smoke extractions with HCl acid. Instead I used lime (Ca(OH)2) and vinegar, both very food safe and safe to handle too.
NaOH isn't so bad to handle if it's room temperature and a not fully saturated solutions. NileRed has a video on this I think. the fat on your fingertips just turn to soap. at least at the concentrations used for soapmaking. I tried! not that you want to stick your hand in or anything, but you don't need to be overly paranoid with it. KOH on the other hand..
vinegar (acetic acid) and lime should give you calcium acetate as a byproduct. nice and safe. using HCl instead of acetic acid should give you CaCl2, also nice and safe. basic PPE should be enough really. coat, gloves, goggles. a bit of sodium bicarbonate solution nearby
>DMT is a wonderfully fun drug and really easy to extract and purify. I ended up doing a vape pen with which I could have mild trips with more regularity. Very fun, very recommended.
I keep away from psychoactive stuff besides alcohol these days. I used to smoke weed but it made my depression worse. these days I'm not even on SSRIs. it's pretty good and I don't want to mess it up

 No.10090

NEW EXTRACTIONS&IRE
>We set out to improve every aspect of the UV photoreactor, which is proving a pain in our journey to cubane from the hardware store. But will it be enough?

 No.11296

Are there any sources (books, websites) that teach a more "street" kind of chemistry, if you catch my drift. Not all of us will have access to pure substances of any kind, so it would be interesting to extract certain substances from household materials. What kind of substances doesn't matter, I'm just talking about doing something like that in general.

 No.11299

Does anyone know how to make acetic anhydride from uncontrolled precursors and limited resources without killing myself?

 No.11300

>>11296
You mean like how to make diy chemicals like precursors and solvents etc? Cool idea. I am interested as well.

 No.11337

>>11296
>>11300
erowid
>>11299
https://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Acetic_anhydride
>Many amateurs have attempted to make acetic anhydride at home due to its tremendous usefulness in organic chemistry. Only a few have succeeded, though a write-up of the preparation of acetic anhydride from sulfur, bromine, and anhydrous sodium acetate was reported by Magpie
https://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=15021
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/anhydrides.html
https://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=9
I tried making more concentrated acetic acid a while back, but distillation unfortunately only gets you so far. there's no azeotrope with water luckily but it has a high enough affinity to water that distillation is difficult

 No.11418

Can anyone familiar with chemistry explain to me how 4 mM hydrogen peroxide means we have a 30% concentration of it? Presumably, it's an aqueous solution. I'm a complete newbie and am just engaging with it for fun.

 No.11422

>>11418
are you sure it's 4 mM and not 4 M?
4 M = 4 mol/L = 136 g/L
30% H2O2 = 1110 g/L
136 / 1110 = 12.3%
136 / 1000 = 13.6%
this doesn't make any sense at all. 30% w/w H2O2 should be 333 g H2O2 or 9.8 mol/L = 9.8 M. where did you get the 4 from?

 No.11424

>>11422
It's about a paper discussing the degradation of lignin-like structures with lignin peroxidase, which utilized hydrogen peroxide to catalyze the process.

<Reagent for LiP assay included 250 mM sodium tartrate buffer pH 5.5, 10 mM VA, and 4 mM H2O2 (30%).


Yeah, I probably misunderstood what's it supposed to mean. Perhaps they mean there already is an aqueous hydrogen peroxide solution of 30% and that has a concentration of 4mM in the reagent?

 No.11425

>>11424
I suggest emailing the authors and asking. could just be that they add enough 30% H2O2 to make 4 mM in the solution

 No.11426

File: 1660240766769-0.jpg (359.24 KB, 2409x1931, EtAc.jpg)

here's the result of an experiment that I've had running for two months: making ethyl acetate
normally one uses pure ethanol, glacial acetic acid and sulfuric acid as a catalyst. I don't have either of those so I used 6 ml 40% ethanol (vodka), 4 ml 60% acetic acid (food grade) and 1 ml ~80% H2SO4. I also set up a batch using 1 ml 30% HCl instead of H2SO4
nothing much happened at first, even after leaving it in the oven at ~80°C for several hours. so I just let both batches sit for two months until today. the batch with H2SO4 has formed a thin layer which is hard to photograph, but the HCl batch has little droplets floating in it. the smell is noticeably different from AcOH, so I'm fairly sure esterification has occurred
pic related is the HCl batch
water interferes with the reaction which is why it's so slow. I suspect NaHSO4 can be substituted for H2SO4 which avoids adding water there, and ethanol is relatively easy to distill to higher concentration

 No.11427

>>5727
compost

 No.11851

I need to mix a small solution whose components will have small amounts. In the micrograms ballpark. Is there any sort of equipment with which I can precisely measure and mix a solution like that? Of course, I could use a scale and scoop the material with a spoon, but that's pretty crude.

 No.11874

File: 1665915621112.jpg (303.83 KB, 426x800, Single_channel_rack.jpg)


 No.11875

>>11874
Nice, that seems appropriate. Thank you.

 No.11976

How do you predict how two substances will react and what they will produce? Is there any way to deduce this? Or is chemistry some sort of big library of trial and error where you memorize what happens? Because the last one would be tedious as hell. Right now I'm trying to make a hydrogen peroxide solution more acidic, but I don't know how much it will compromise the hydrogen peroxide concentration itself, because the acid may react with it.

 No.12046

What do I use to measure mass in the micro range? Conventional scales don‘t seem appropriate, needless to say

 No.12047

File: 1669314559893.jpg (255.62 KB, 1280x720, exceptions.jpg)

>>11976
>How do you predict how two substances will react and what they will produce?
what substances did you have in mind?
>Or is chemistry some sort of big library of trial and error where you memorize what happens?
picrel
>Right now I'm trying to make a hydrogen peroxide solution more acidic, but I don't know how much it will compromise the hydrogen peroxide concentration itself, because the acid may react with it.
what acid?
>>12046
sometimes you can dissolve a known larger amount in a solution then take a suitable fraction of the solution

 No.12048

>>12047
> >How do you predict how two substances will react and what they will produce?
>what substances did you have in mind?
>>Or is chemistry some sort of big library of trial and error where you memorize what happens?
>picrel
Yeah nvm, I figured in the meantime that chemistry essentially is some sort of large library of known facts through experimentation where only category wise we can predict some things that are essentially already known. At least that‘s how I would put it.

>>Right now I'm trying to make a hydrogen peroxide solution more acidic, but I don't know how much it will compromise the hydrogen peroxide concentration itself, because the acid may react with it.

>what acid?
Phosphoric acid. But never mind, I already figured that one out. Both are weak acids, but phosphoric acid is much stronger and will be the main determinant of the resulting pH. Also it won‘t have a reaction with the hydrogen peroxide itself as far as I understand it.

>sometimes you can dissolve a known larger amount in a solution then take a suitable fraction of the solution

True, but the substance I bought was expensive as fuck and I only have small quantities of it. I‘m getting a proper scale for it and will increase the volume of the solution, although I wanted to avoid that.

 No.12049

>>12048
>Yeah nvm, I figured in the meantime that chemistry essentially is some sort of large library of known facts through experimentation where only category wise we can predict some things that are essentially already known. At least that‘s how I would put it.
chemistry is more or less "lies for children" all the way down. but often times those lies work well enough
>True, but the substance I bought was expensive as fuck and I only have small quantities of it. I‘m getting a proper scale for it and will increase the volume of the solution, although I wanted to avoid that.
you could try and make a coke line out of it then cut a piece of it by length
I have a scale with 10mg resolution. once you want to go more accurate than that prices quickly shoot up

 No.12050

>you could try and make a coke line out of it then cut a piece of it by length
I have a scale with 10mg resolution. once you want to go more accurate than that prices quickly shoot up
Yeah, I will have to blow some money for that


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