Anonymous 2022-01-04 (Tue) 22:43:56 No. 9254
>>9252 >A lot of new anthropological work has been done in this field in recent decades that has not yet entered public consciousness. Any recs? I am especially interested in stuff about current day Latinamerica.
Anonymous 2022-01-04 (Tue) 23:05:34 No. 9255
>>9253 Did they use cyanide to harden the copper?
Anonymous 2022-01-04 (Tue) 23:17:50 No. 9256
>>9254 >Any recs? 1491 is a good starting point
it's 2 hole continents and millennia of history though
>>9255 IDK don't think you need to harden copper for most uses. The main method was cold hammering since copper is comparatively malleable.
Anonymous 2022-01-04 (Tue) 23:18:50 No. 9257
>>9256 I only ask because many people in Europe died due to cyanide hardened copper tools
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 16:18:46 No. 9264
Anyone have a legend for the OP map?
Anonymous 2022-01-06 (Thu) 18:11:38 No. 9277
>>9264 Not aware if there is a legend or not. It was hard to find a map of both Americas that had more than a few cultures/ethnicities on it. This one was a WIP attempt by somebody to map pre-Columbian ethnic groups to help people write alternate history. They got banned from the community though so IDK if there was a more complete or labeled version.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/bronze-age-new-world-v2-0.222514/page-5 I didn't want to use it for the OP image until after looking for a while I realized that there just weren't (easy to find) good maps of all the Americas showing the people who lived there. So it's kind of representative of how overlooked the subject is. :-\
Anonymous 2022-01-06 (Thu) 18:29:50 No. 9278
>>9277 >>9264 Actually now that I have found the source page and read through the thread, I see that it is in fact an alternate history map rather than a historical one. What a sad statement indeed. Most maps that have more than a handful of cultures, languages, etc are restricted to only one continent or region. It's difficult to find an all-inclusive map showing anything significant at all.
Here's 2 maps for North an South, but missing Central for instance.
The NA map is from wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas#Pre-Columbian_era The SA map is from a redditor who was annoyed that wikipedia only had NA in the above wikipedia article.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/5nmpjq/distribution_of_language_families_in_precolumbian/ Anonymous 2022-05-13 (Fri) 00:56:29 No. 10656
>>9253 Bumping this one
Of course, one of the principles of weapons difference between euros and americans was that the first had iron and the others not.
<Pic is not viracocha. Anonymous 2022-05-15 (Sun) 04:54:07 No. 10667
I'm really fascinated with how the people living in the Pacific Northwest started using iron from Chinese/Japanese shipwrecks. Small world huh
Anonymous 2022-05-15 (Sun) 05:02:20 No. 10668
>>10667 >The prehistoric Indians of the Northwest Coast of America possessed limited numbers of iron blades for their adzes and chisels. The source of these blades is likely to have been Japan. They reached American shores in the wrecks of disabled wooden vessels pushed by the ocean currents and the westerly winds. Such unwanted voyages lasted one to two years. Iron blades were part of the tool assemblages of Japanese seafaring men, some of whom survived their terrible ordeal. Such voyages in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries are a matter of record. It has been estimated that some thousands of disabled vessels reached American shores during the first 17 centuries of the Christian era Columbus BTFO yet again, this time by prevailing winds/currents.
Anonymous 2022-05-31 (Tue) 01:38:38 No. 10838
>>10837 >What a lack of succesion laws does to a mofo Tbf, the previous Inka and his designated heir Ninan Coyuchi died from smallpox
Anonymous 2022-05-31 (Tue) 02:22:13 No. 10840
Seeims like a compatriot has done already a video seriesnot subbed ruptures in the conquistadors about if executing the Inca or sending him to Spain, for and while a plot to liberate him by his generals by attacking is foiled, the Inca is trialed He was convicted of Treson, usurpation, tirany, regicide, fratricide, adultery, poligamy, incest and heresy He appeals to Pizarro, promising to give more gold or more royal hostages, he converts to avoid being burned (since having the body for mummification and reverance was a great part his religion), is given the name of Francisco and is killed by garrote vil while the priest recited a Psalm In the end there was no army nearby, so Pizarro is berated by his officer Hernando de Soto for not sending him to Spain to the court of Charles V Again, this instance of a inca king being murdered repeats with Tupac Amaru I, killed and when the vicerroy goes back to Spain the King of Spain berates him: "Go home, I sent you to Peru not to kill kings but to serve them". Pizarro doesn't have that end, nor going back by diying in the conquistadors civil war
Anonymous 2022-06-07 (Tue) 00:58:42 No. 10964
Evidence of pre historical habitation found on the South Atlantic islands
https://www.archaeology.org/news/10110-211028-falkland-islands-wolf Anonymous 2022-07-01 (Fri) 00:43:52 No. 11145
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/lost-cities-of-the-amazon-discovered-from-the-air-180980142/ There was speculation that there was an old urban civilization in the Amazon Jungle, and now it's pretty much confirmed that it existed. Old Amazonian cities were recently found in the Beni Department of Northern Bolivia. Just like other Native civilizations such as the Mississippians, Andeans and Mesoamericans, these Amazonian cities had pyramids.
One thing this article doesn't mention though is that there is some evidence that this civilization continued to exist for some decades after Post-Columbian contact, and that it extended up to Northern Brazil. In the early 1500s, Venezuela was a private colony called Klein Venedig and it was owned by the Welsers, a German banking family. The last German governor of Klein Venedig, Philipp Von Hutten, went on a military expedition south into the Amazon Jungle in 1541. Hutten and his men encountered a Native American group called the Omaguas, who lived in Northern Brazil (see the 3rd pic), and he allegedly discovered that the Omaguas had a large, extravagant looking city. Hutten and his forces advanced towards the city, but Omagua warriors came out of the city to confront Hutten, and a battle ensued. Hutten's expedition was eventually forced to retreat, and Hutten himself was wounded in the battle. Hutten's claims about the Omaguas having an opulent city is chalked up by some historians as just an exaggeration and another example of European hysterics about trying finding El Dorado (which was common at the time). But with these pyramids and urban settlements being found in the Amazon, I think it's likely Hutten wasn't exaggerating and that he really did find a large city. Hutten also claimed that the Omagua city had a tall structure in the center, the structure was probably a pyramid.
https://www.landofsixpeoples.com/gyeldora.htm Anonymous 2022-07-01 (Fri) 05:24:19 No. 11147
Northern Californian tribes are pretty interesting. There were a bunch of hunter-gatherer societies existing in close proximity with sedentary agricultural ones, and many of the tribes in the area fell somewhere in between. Plus, rather than harvesting ground crops, their staple crops were acorns harvested from wild oak trees. Maybe the time it takes to grow oak trees explains why the sedentary societies never really expanded or supplanted the hunter-gatherers
Anonymous 2022-07-01 (Fri) 06:43:03 No. 11148
>>11147 agriculture is more intensive than hunting and gathering, but I'm sure there are other reasons
Anonymous 2022-07-01 (Fri) 09:47:48 No. 11150
>>11149 That's cool, was it retrieved from Inuit folk memory or Viking sources?
Anonymous 2022-07-01 (Fri) 10:46:46 No. 11151
>>11150 The former, Inuit oral history. This guy named Henry Rink went to Greenland and wrote down and recorded a bunch of Inuit oral stories, some of which were about the Norse.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/nam/inu/tte/tte2-054.htm https://www.sacred-texts.com/nam/inu/tte/tte2-055.htm Note that the term "Kavdlunait" means European, the term "Kaladlit" means Inuit and the term "Kivigtok" means hermit
Anonymous 2022-07-04 (Mon) 18:52:32 No. 11178
>>11177 Mayans invented the dab?
Anonymous 2022-07-04 (Mon) 20:10:34 No. 11182
https://www.science.org/content/article/it-wasnt-just-greece-archaeologists-find-early-democratic-societies-americas This is a good article about Tlaxcala's political system. In Mesoamerica there were different political systems, for instance the Aztec Empire was a monarchy and this is well known. What's not as well known is that one of their main enemies the Tlaxcaltecs had a republic, with it's own senate (see 2nd pic). Tlaxcala was also a confederacy made up of 4 different city states: Tizatlan, Quiahuiztlan, Ocotelolco and Tepeticpac, and all these city states had representatives in the senate. (The Aztec Empire was also technically a confederation between the city states Tenochtitlan, Tlacopan and Texcoco but in reality Tenochtitlan had de facto control over the other two). The Tlaxcaltec senate was made up of both nobles and commoners, and before someone could join the senate they had to go through a brutal initiation process where they suffered physical and verbal abuse. When Cortes first entered Tlaxcala, he compared the Tlaxcaltec political system to the Italian republics like Genoa and Venice.
Here's another good article, it goes into detail about the initial battle between the Tlaxcaltecs and Spaniards before they allied with each other:
https://www.historynet.com/cortes-won-mexico-losing/ Anonymous 2022-07-04 (Mon) 20:16:36 No. 11184
>>11182 Have you read The Dawn of Everything?
>>>/dead/2734 It talks about different Amerindian tribes and how people just used to assume all of them were highly hierarchical with kings and shit despite the archaeological evidence suggesting otherwise.
Anonymous 2022-07-04 (Mon) 20:19:14 No. 11185
>>11184 No I have not heard about it but I will check it out
Anonymous 2022-07-06 (Wed) 15:04:34 No. 11191
>>9252 >A lot of new anthropological work has been done in this field in recent decades that has not yet entered public consciousness. Good. I've always seethed in rage at the fact that learning a neat chronology of pre-Columbian civilizations was basically impossible, but this makes me feel a bit better.
Anonymous 2022-07-12 (Tue) 00:15:31 No. 11218
>>11214 >>11215 Miguel Serrano, prominent chilean fascist, had some bizarre ideas about this group like how they came from Antarctica and that their spirituality and closeness to nature is something the white man had forgotten and should learn from. That they aren't extinct because their Race is alive at every mountain and every forest and will come back
Anonymous 2022-08-29 (Mon) 00:38:51 No. 11572
>>11390 fuck yeah i love ancient americas
Anonymous 2022-08-31 (Wed) 03:57:14 No. 11579
>>11390 I was going to send you to hell anglos for not having a single video on the travels of Tupac Yupanqui to Oceania and the leyends of the King Tupa in some islands there.
But thankfully someone put them in his video.
And because since the text on screen isn't translated I will do something about it
0:48
<This skin and jaw from a horse was kept by a important inka, who lives today and gaved this report, and ratified by the rest who were present and called himself Urco Guaranga. I make instance on this, because those who know something of indians will se an extrange case and difficult to believe 1:22
<Miguel Cabello de Balboa, 1586 >More is true is affirmed from this valerous Inka they tell, that from this road stopped in the sea for the space and duration of a year, and they say that he discovered some islands whom they called Hagua Chumbi and Nina Chumbi, this islands are on the South Sea (…) <Martin de Murua,1590 >And he reached the islands called Hagua Chumbi and Nina Chumpi and he conquered them, and from there he brought to show his triumph, a people like blacks and a great ammount of gold and a brass chair. He brought horses skins and heads and bones, all to show it as it is custom (…) <Santa Cruz de Pachacuti, 1613 >And coming like that, goes to an island of the yungas, where there is motherpearl called churoymaman, and he finds it more ¿ominous? […] Again, the inkas were a more advanced culture than everyone else…but none were a iron civilization in this plot of land, so the wheel of history crushed them like it did to the ancient japanese, the egiptians and other cultures from the fertile crescent.
Anonymous 2022-08-31 (Wed) 03:59:00 No. 11580
>>11579 (me)
>The treasures brought by Yupanqui were burned by Atahualpa's troops after he took Cusco and did a razzia on his rivals Another reason I'm glad he got strangled
Anonymous 2022-08-31 (Wed) 04:01:19 No. 11581
Also shoutout to the channel, seems subtitled for the anglo mono and bilinguists.
Anonymous 2022-11-15 (Tue) 18:24:56 No. 12023
Can I hijack this thread to ask for recommendations on post-contact stuff? I've been trying to pin down the intellectual origins/justifications for Manifest Destiny and have gravitated towards learning specifically about Native American trade networks in the Great Lakes, as well as the 'Indian Wars' in general—from Metacomet to Crazy Horse. I've realized that for decades, American historiography of the 'frontier' was mired by the exceptionalism of Frederick Jackson Turner, and it wasn't until the 1980s did people really start to question it with the advent of New Western History. Where should I start?
Anonymous 2022-11-16 (Wed) 01:56:56 No. 12026
I don´t want to be snobby, but learning spanish is a must. Spanish-language historiography is fantastic. I can recommend some books about the Hispanic Caribbean, but the trans-national team that included comittees from Cuba, Dominican Republic, and Puerto Rico, wrote their contribuitions in Spanish xd
Anonymous 2022-11-16 (Wed) 02:00:48 No. 12027
>>12026 The UNESCO´s collection on the history of the caribbean is also great, that one is about the entire archipelago chain and is also in english xd
Anonymous 2022-11-19 (Sat) 05:03:54 No. 12035
>>12023 I also want to see some recs for this comrade
Anonymous 2022-11-21 (Mon) 12:54:50 No. 12043
>>12035 I'm just gonna start with Richard White's
The Middle Ground I guess.
Anonymous 2023-09-21 (Thu) 21:54:43 No. 20553
The first battle between a Mesoamerican army and Spanish colonists actually happened in 1517, two years before Cortes invaded Mexico. A Spanish expedition was defeated by Chakan Putum, a Mayan city-state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hern%C3%A1ndez_de_C%C3%B3rdoba_expedition The Mayan victory was commemorated by the Bolivian and Mexican governments in 2021
Anonymous 2023-09-22 (Fri) 03:26:29 No. 20554
>>20549 That book is about the post-Columbian era though.
Anonymous 2023-09-24 (Sun) 04:46:07 No. 20561
>>20560 this goes hard, did they pick up the the pike formation from the Spanish or did they develop it independently to combat cavalry?
Anonymous 2023-10-05 (Thu) 13:25:26 No. 20606
>>20604 just don't call them pyramids!!
Anonymous 2023-10-05 (Thu) 16:03:42 No. 20607
>>20561 >>20595 They couldn't develop it independently to combat cavalry because there were no horses in the Americas before contact. It's an adaptation in response to Spanish arriving. At most they could have come to the logical conclusion that you best oppose cavalry with long pointy sticks, but given the time span they probably copied it directly. It's possible that there were Spanish defectors who brought knowledge of anti-cavalry tactics since it was pretty common for European settlers to flip sides to escape from how shitty their own culture was. That's not just some Hollywood trope.
There is probably actual research on the topic though.
Anonymous 2023-10-06 (Fri) 15:54:50 No. 20609
>>20604 wtf I had no idea their stone buildings where this color
Anonymous 2023-10-06 (Fri) 23:31:50 No. 20610
>>11145 I find this very fascinating and wish more people than Joe Rogan talked about it. Sorry you aren't getting any replies anon. I don't have anything to say either
Anonymous 2023-10-07 (Sat) 17:40:31 No. 20613
>>20610 Yeah unfortunately it's not talked about much. As far as I know I'm the only who's thought of a connection between Philipp Von Hutten's expedition and the Amazon civilization
Anonymous 2023-10-07 (Sat) 18:11:03 No. 20614
>>11145 >>20610 The sad thing about this is that it kind of makes perfect sense for there to be a large and well developed society in a place like that, given the level of biodiversity and the natural river highway, but the whole "El Dorado" thing kind of poisoned the well on the topic so trying to research it gets you laughed at. Ironically a lot of it is gaining traction now because capitalism is in there deforesting the land and stumbling upon things buried by the forest.
>>11189 This is the kind of thing that really raises questions about different ways technology can advance. The West didn't invent electroplating until ~1800.
Anonymous 2023-11-02 (Thu) 21:11:04 No. 20900
>>20898 imagine how vibrant that thing would have been 500 years ago when it was made if the blue still looks that bright
Anonymous 2023-11-02 (Thu) 21:51:03 No. 20901
>>20900 Probably also some colors on there that faded completely and we can't see at all now.
Anonymous 2023-11-14 (Tue) 02:03:52 No. 20940
>>20604 Was the color of Mayan stone structures due to a particular stone they used or was it some kind of painted stucco?
Anonymous 2023-11-15 (Wed) 05:00:41 No. 20944
Bioanthro major gf’s birthday this weekend. Any recs on book gifts?
Anonymous 2023-11-15 (Wed) 18:47:24 No. 20948
>>20944 if you know books she already has, you can go on amazon and look up those and then look at the recommended books (but buy them from somewhere else if possible)
Unique IPs: 33