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/edu/ - Education

'The weapon of criticism cannot, of course, replace criticism of the weapon, material force must be overthrown by material force; but theory also becomes a material force as soon as it has gripped the masses.' - Karl Marx
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ITT post information about the history and anthropology of the New World. A lot of new anthropological work has been done in this field in recent decades that has not yet entered public consciousness.


Did you know that there actually were metalworkers in the pre-contact Americas? In fact, copper working appeared in the Great Lakes region at about the same time it appeared in the Old World.


>A lot of new anthropological work has been done in this field in recent decades that has not yet entered public consciousness.
Any recs? I am especially interested in stuff about current day Latinamerica.


Did they use cyanide to harden the copper?


>Any recs?
1491 is a good starting point
it's 2 hole continents and millennia of history though

IDK don't think you need to harden copper for most uses. The main method was cold hammering since copper is comparatively malleable.


I only ask because many people in Europe died due to cyanide hardened copper tools



Anyone have a legend for the OP map?


Not aware if there is a legend or not. It was hard to find a map of both Americas that had more than a few cultures/ethnicities on it. This one was a WIP attempt by somebody to map pre-Columbian ethnic groups to help people write alternate history. They got banned from the community though so IDK if there was a more complete or labeled version.

I didn't want to use it for the OP image until after looking for a while I realized that there just weren't (easy to find) good maps of all the Americas showing the people who lived there. So it's kind of representative of how overlooked the subject is. :-\


File: 1641493790523-0.png (845.42 KB, 1290x1170, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1641493790523-1.png (40.6 KB, 812x1142, ClipboardImage.png)

Actually now that I have found the source page and read through the thread, I see that it is in fact an alternate history map rather than a historical one. What a sad statement indeed. Most maps that have more than a handful of cultures, languages, etc are restricted to only one continent or region. It's difficult to find an all-inclusive map showing anything significant at all.

Here's 2 maps for North an South, but missing Central for instance.
The NA map is from wikipedia.
The SA map is from a redditor who was annoyed that wikipedia only had NA in the above wikipedia article.


Bumping this one
Of course, one of the principles of weapons difference between euros and americans was that the first had iron and the others not.
<Pic is not viracocha.


I'm really fascinated with how the people living in the Pacific Northwest started using iron from Chinese/Japanese shipwrecks. Small world huh


>The prehistoric Indians of the Northwest Coast of America possessed limited numbers of iron blades for their adzes and chisels. The source of these blades is likely to have been Japan. They reached American shores in the wrecks of disabled wooden vessels pushed by the ocean currents and the westerly winds. Such unwanted voyages lasted one to two years. Iron blades were part of the tool assemblages of Japanese seafaring men, some of whom survived their terrible ordeal. Such voyages in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries are a matter of record. It has been estimated that some thousands of disabled vessels reached American shores during the first 17 centuries of the Christian era
Columbus BTFO yet again, this time by prevailing winds/currents.


>Is probably more responsible for Spanish conquest of the Inca then Pizzaro


Such is life, showed his cards early to the spanish, overconfidance.


>What a lack of succesion laws does to a mofo
Tbf, the previous Inka and his designated heir Ninan Coyuchi died from smallpox


Seeims like a compatriot has done already a video series
(Dammit, looks like only the 1st and 3rd have subs)
1:Inca civil war, Pizarro's first contact
2nd: Toledo's capitulation (The king recognize him as governor) Pizarro arrives at a barren land and does a little barring himself. not subbed
3/4rd: The meeting/ battle / capture of Cajamarca.
5th: Atahualpa's prison and meetings with the conquistadors, the cell of gold and two of silver for his freedom. The truce, and the death of Huascar. Ruptures between Pizarro and Almagro. Distribution of the spoils
6th: Death of Atahualpa ruptures in the conquistadors about if executing the Inca or sending him to Spain, for and while a plot to liberate him by his generals by attacking is foiled, the Inca is trialed
He was convicted of Treson, usurpation, tirany, regicide, fratricide, adultery, poligamy, incest and heresy
He appeals to Pizarro, promising to give more gold or more royal hostages, he converts to avoid being burned (since having the body for mummification and reverance was a great part his religion), is given the name of Francisco and is killed by garrote vil while the priest recited a Psalm
In the end there was no army nearby, so Pizarro is berated by his officer Hernando de Soto for not sending him to Spain to the court of Charles V
Again, this instance of a inca king being murdered repeats with Tupac Amaru I, killed and when the vicerroy goes back to Spain the King of Spain berates him: "Go home, I sent you to Peru not to kill kings but to serve them". Pizarro doesn't have that end, nor going back by diying in the conquistadors civil war


Evidence of pre historical habitation found on the South Atlantic islands


File: 1656636231592-1.png (223.36 KB, 320x296, Philipp Von Hutten.png)

File: 1656636231592-2.png (1.02 MB, 843x703, Omagua map.png)


There was speculation that there was an old urban civilization in the Amazon Jungle, and now it's pretty much confirmed that it existed. Old Amazonian cities were recently found in the Beni Department of Northern Bolivia. Just like other Native civilizations such as the Mississippians, Andeans and Mesoamericans, these Amazonian cities had pyramids.

One thing this article doesn't mention though is that there is some evidence that this civilization continued to exist for some decades after Post-Columbian contact, and that it extended up to Northern Brazil. In the early 1500s, Venezuela was a private colony called Klein Venedig and it was owned by the Welsers, a German banking family. The last German governor of Klein Venedig, Philipp Von Hutten, went on a military expedition south into the Amazon Jungle in 1541. Hutten and his men encountered a Native American group called the Omaguas, who lived in Northern Brazil (see the 3rd pic), and he allegedly discovered that the Omaguas had a large, extravagant looking city. Hutten and his forces advanced towards the city, but Omagua warriors came out of the city to confront Hutten, and a battle ensued. Hutten's expedition was eventually forced to retreat, and Hutten himself was wounded in the battle. Hutten's claims about the Omaguas having an opulent city is chalked up by some historians as just an exaggeration and another example of European hysterics about trying finding El Dorado (which was common at the time). But with these pyramids and urban settlements being found in the Amazon, I think it's likely Hutten wasn't exaggerating and that he really did find a large city. Hutten also claimed that the Omagua city had a tall structure in the center, the structure was probably a pyramid.



This guy is a retard but unfortunately he's the only one who discusses it on video



Northern Californian tribes are pretty interesting. There were a bunch of hunter-gatherer societies existing in close proximity with sedentary agricultural ones, and many of the tribes in the area fell somewhere in between. Plus, rather than harvesting ground crops, their staple crops were acorns harvested from wild oak trees. Maybe the time it takes to grow oak trees explains why the sedentary societies never really expanded or supplanted the hunter-gatherers


agriculture is more intensive than hunting and gathering, but I'm sure there are other reasons


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Something interesting from a conflict between the Inuits and the Medieval Norse in Greenland that happened between 1000-1400 AD. Before attacking a Norse settlement, the Inuits disguised their boat with bleached animal skins, which gave their boats the appearance of small icebergs. This is from the book "The European Challenge" from the American Indian book series


That's cool, was it retrieved from Inuit folk memory or Viking sources?


The former, Inuit oral history. This guy named Henry Rink went to Greenland and wrote down and recorded a bunch of Inuit oral stories, some of which were about the Norse.


Note that the term "Kavdlunait" means European, the term "Kaladlit" means Inuit and the term "Kivigtok" means hermit


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In Pre-Columbian times, the Cherokee had a hereditary religious clergy called the Ani-Kutani, which became very powerful in Cherokee society. The Ani-Kutani were corrupt, and often committed sexual abuses. This greatly angered the common Cherokee people, who eventually rose up and killed the Ani-Kutani.


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Map of the Uto-Aztecan language family


File: 1656876906671.jpg (336.19 KB, 1280x1944, Pre-Columbian iceberg.jpg)


Some Mayan sculptures


Mayans invented the dab?



Some Aztec sculptures


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now post one of stuff that's real and not retarded conspiracy theories



This is a good article about Tlaxcala's political system. In Mesoamerica there were different political systems, for instance the Aztec Empire was a monarchy and this is well known. What's not as well known is that one of their main enemies the Tlaxcaltecs had a republic, with it's own senate (see 2nd pic). Tlaxcala was also a confederacy made up of 4 different city states: Tizatlan, Quiahuiztlan, Ocotelolco and Tepeticpac, and all these city states had representatives in the senate. (The Aztec Empire was also technically a confederation between the city states Tenochtitlan, Tlacopan and Texcoco but in reality Tenochtitlan had de facto control over the other two). The Tlaxcaltec senate was made up of both nobles and commoners, and before someone could join the senate they had to go through a brutal initiation process where they suffered physical and verbal abuse. When Cortes first entered Tlaxcala, he compared the Tlaxcaltec political system to the Italian republics like Genoa and Venice.

Here's another good article, it goes into detail about the initial battle between the Tlaxcaltecs and Spaniards before they allied with each other: https://www.historynet.com/cortes-won-mexico-losing/


Good video by Historia Civilis about the political system of the Iroquois Confederacy


Have you read The Dawn of Everything? >>>/dead/2734 It talks about different Amerindian tribes and how people just used to assume all of them were highly hierarchical with kings and shit despite the archaeological evidence suggesting otherwise.


No I have not heard about it but I will check it out


Reconstruction of the Huaca Del Luna, a temple built by the Moches (a pre-Incan culture in Peru) around 100-700 AD


Some good books.
From left to right: American Indian Medicine by Virgil Vogel, Indian Givers by Jack Weatherford, Demystifying Amerindian Warfare by Ruben Mendoza


Another thing about the Moches: They discovered how to do electroplating as part of their metalwork


>A lot of new anthropological work has been done in this field in recent decades that has not yet entered public consciousness.
Good. I've always seethed in rage at the fact that learning a neat chronology of pre-Columbian civilizations was basically impossible, but this makes me feel a bit better.


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A chart that summarizes the historical eras of Mesoamerica


Very long book about the Native American tribes in Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana. It was written by a British missionary named William Henry Brett who went to those places in the 1800s


Mississippian Culture urban centers.
From left to right:

Cahokia in Illinois

Bottle Creek Mounds in Alabama

Etowah in Georgia

Spiro Mounds in Oklahoma

Moundville in Alabama


Some of the last hundred or so indigenous inhabitants of Tierra Del Fuego photographed by a German missionary 1918



The ruins of Ciudad Perdida, a city built around 800 AD by Native Americans in Northern Colombia


Illustrations of various Native rituals/ceremonies in Northern America.
From left to right:
Apache tribe Crown Dance

Blackfoot tribe Bear Knife Ceremony

Lakota tribe Sun Dance

Mandan tribe Okipa Ritual

Seminole tribe Green Corn Ceremony


Miguel Serrano, prominent chilean fascist, had some bizarre ideas about this group like how they came from Antarctica and that their spirituality and closeness to nature is something the white man had forgotten and should learn from. That they aren't extinct because their Race is alive at every mountain and every forest and will come back


File: 1657588611164-1.jpg (504.86 KB, 1280x960, Yaxchilan_Pile.JPG)

File: 1657588611164-3.png (21.69 KB, 1237x436, Screenshot (961).png)

The Yaxchilan bridge is believed by some archeologists to have been a suspension bridge built around 700 AD by the Mayan city state Yaxchilan in Southern Mexico. If it was real it would've been the largest bridge in the world at the time it was built


>1491 is a good starting point
Here's the pdf for it


Pages from various pre-contact Aztec books




Puebloan architecture.
From left to right:

Pueblo Bonito in New Mexico

Taos Pueblo in New Mexico

Cliff Palace in Colorado

Pecos Pueblo in New Mexico

Montezuma's Castle in Arizona

An interesting fact is that the 5th one is named after the Aztec emperor Montezuma because the first white settlers from the US who came to the Southwest thought the Puebloan architecture was really built by the Aztecs


New video from Ancient Americas about Moncacht Ape. He was a Native American who might've completed the first recorded journey between the Atlantic and Pacific coasts of the USA, preceding Lewis and Clark


fuck yeah i love ancient americas


I was going to send you to hell anglos for not having a single video on the travels of Tupac Yupanqui to Oceania and the leyends of the King Tupa in some islands there.
But thankfully someone put them in his video.
And because since the text on screen isn't translated I will do something about it
<This skin and jaw from a horse was kept by a important inka, who lives today and gaved this report, and ratified by the rest who were present and called himself Urco Guaranga. I make instance on this, because those who know something of indians will se an extrange case and difficult to believe
<Miguel Cabello de Balboa, 1586
>More is true is affirmed from this valerous Inka they tell, that from this road stopped in the sea for the space and duration of a year, and they say that he discovered some islands whom they called Hagua Chumbi and Nina Chumbi, this islands are on the South Sea (…)
<Martin de Murua,1590
>And he reached the islands called Hagua Chumbi and Nina Chumpi and he conquered them, and from there he brought to show his triumph, a people like blacks and a great ammount of gold and a brass chair. He brought horses skins and heads and bones, all to show it as it is custom (…)
<Santa Cruz de Pachacuti, 1613
>And coming like that, goes to an island of the yungas, where there is motherpearl called churoymaman, and he finds it more ¿ominous? […]
Again, the inkas were a more advanced culture than everyone else…but none were a iron civilization in this plot of land, so the wheel of history crushed them like it did to the ancient japanese, the egiptians and other cultures from the fertile crescent.


>>11579 (me)
>The treasures brought by Yupanqui were burned by Atahualpa's troops after he took Cusco and did a razzia on his rivals
Another reason I'm glad he got strangled


Also shoutout to the channel, seems subtitled for the anglo mono and bilinguists.


cute cocks tbh


Can I hijack this thread to ask for recommendations on post-contact stuff? I've been trying to pin down the intellectual origins/justifications for Manifest Destiny and have gravitated towards learning specifically about Native American trade networks in the Great Lakes, as well as the 'Indian Wars' in general—from Metacomet to Crazy Horse. I've realized that for decades, American historiography of the 'frontier' was mired by the exceptionalism of Frederick Jackson Turner, and it wasn't until the 1980s did people really start to question it with the advent of New Western History. Where should I start?


I don´t want to be snobby, but learning spanish is a must. Spanish-language historiography is fantastic. I can recommend some books about the Hispanic Caribbean, but the trans-national team that included comittees from Cuba, Dominican Republic, and Puerto Rico, wrote their contribuitions in Spanish xd


The UNESCO´s collection on the history of the caribbean is also great, that one is about the entire archipelago chain and is also in english xd


I also want to see some recs for this comrade


I'm just gonna start with Richard White's The Middle Ground I guess.



File: 1669735736037.jpg (229.95 KB, 2048x578, lmao.jpg)

Turning out to be really good, lol


Various Inca architecture



Everyone should start with this.


The first battle between a Mesoamerican army and Spanish colonists actually happened in 1517, two years before Cortes invaded Mexico. A Spanish expedition was defeated by Chakan Putum, a Mayan city-state.
The Mayan victory was commemorated by the Bolivian and Mexican governments in 2021


That book is about the post-Columbian era though.


Leather armor made by the Mapuches. It was made from the skin of guanacos & sea lions, and later cows brought by the Spaniards.


this goes hard, did they pick up the the pike formation from the Spanish or did they develop it independently to combat cavalry?


The Spanish developed the Tercio pike formation at the time so the Mapuches could have gotten it from that. They also adopted cavalry and arquebus guns from the Spaniards


Mayan cities


just don't call them pyramids!!


They couldn't develop it independently to combat cavalry because there were no horses in the Americas before contact. It's an adaptation in response to Spanish arriving. At most they could have come to the logical conclusion that you best oppose cavalry with long pointy sticks, but given the time span they probably copied it directly. It's possible that there were Spanish defectors who brought knowledge of anti-cavalry tactics since it was pretty common for European settlers to flip sides to escape from how shitty their own culture was. That's not just some Hollywood trope.

There is probably actual research on the topic though.


wtf I had no idea their stone buildings where this color


I find this very fascinating and wish more people than Joe Rogan talked about it. Sorry you aren't getting any replies anon. I don't have anything to say either


Yeah unfortunately it's not talked about much. As far as I know I'm the only who's thought of a connection between Philipp Von Hutten's expedition and the Amazon civilization


The sad thing about this is that it kind of makes perfect sense for there to be a large and well developed society in a place like that, given the level of biodiversity and the natural river highway, but the whole "El Dorado" thing kind of poisoned the well on the topic so trying to research it gets you laughed at. Ironically a lot of it is gaining traction now because capitalism is in there deforesting the land and stumbling upon things buried by the forest.

This is the kind of thing that really raises questions about different ways technology can advance. The West didn't invent electroplating until ~1800.


A shield made by the Aztecs. It was looted by the Spaniards and gifted to the Habsburgs in the 1500s. It was eventually taken back to Mexico in the 1800s by Ferdinand Maximilian during the Mexican-French War


imagine how vibrant that thing would have been 500 years ago when it was made if the blue still looks that bright


Probably also some colors on there that faded completely and we can't see at all now.


Was the color of Mayan stone structures due to a particular stone they used or was it some kind of painted stucco?


Bioanthro major gf’s birthday this weekend. Any recs on book gifts?


if you know books she already has, you can go on amazon and look up those and then look at the recommended books (but buy them from somewhere else if possible)

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