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File: 1632466434284.png (33.04 KB, 1024x1346, z5vz4asbyny31.png)

 No.12574

Are Undertale and Deltarune leftist games?

 No.12575

dont know dont care premise ridiculous

 No.12576

No

 No.12577

The morality in the games is inherently liberal (christian morality as a meta text combined with "marketplace of ideas" as gameplay) unfortunately.
Deltarune isn't finished,so maybe Toby will stop shoving it down the players throat at some points in the chapters (he was hinting at that but never did it),but I'm not counting on it.
And it wouldn't even make it "leftist",whatever you mean by that.

 No.12578

be highly skeptical of pacifists

 No.12579

>the king is systematically murdering children
>the "correct" response to this is pacifism

 No.12580

>kris and the queen functionally identical(besides the killing) in coercing Noelle to use her ice powers, although the queen’s world domination implies that very same genocide regardless
>with the “good” ending, you befriend the genocidal fascist and forgive her
>non-pacifist “genocide” route is consistently non-pacifist, even in odd situations
>one crucial step in solidifying or rejecting the non-pacifist route is involved with a gate puzzle with Noelle, a victim of Kris’ abusive coercion
>Noelle, having killed so many monsters under threat from Kris, faces the urge to kill her master Kris at an electrified gate button puzzle
>to return to the nice route, it uses abuser logic, and criticizes Noelle for having such “non-pacifist” impulses such as killing her abuser with the gate(“It’s Horrible…”)
>to return to the “non-pacifist” genocide route, in which Noelle is completely obedient to Kris and wants to kill everything, you must encourage Noelle that wanting to kill her abusive master is “normal”(“It’s normal…”)
Deltarune, a successor and reflection upon Undertale’s ultra-pacifism, succeeds in spreading its obsession with ultra pacifism. In accepting this message, it obscures but also upholds abuser relationships behind the Dogma of Pacifism. Additionally, it seeks to criticize violence in all of its forms, yet normalizing that violence with forgiveness of explicitly fascist characters and criticizing a valid end to an abusive relationship, especially an abusive relationship present in a world with a magic system through which there can exist monumental power differences and make the window of simply exiting an abusive relationship an enormously, if not so already in the real world, small window. In context of this power dynamic, it assigns moral objectivity to that action of resistance, conflating that decision to the bad ending of its objectively moral binary of story choices. Behind the creator’s performative bashing of fascists, both in game and on Twitter, lies an ideology of non-action in the face of violence and the acceptance of fascist and abuser logic hidden behind quirky and “likable” characters with no acknowledgement or criticism despite these explicit reveals.

If this chapter in the game were a reflection of a person, even if you are not a leftist, it reeks of abuser apologia. The game is yet to be finished, so my observations are yet to be solidified, but I’d be very suspicious of Toby Fox as a person.

 No.12581

>>12580
Also, a keynote in forgiveness of explicitly fascist characters. It still remains forgiveness despite the fascist character stopping their genocidal vision. They remain without consequences or critique for being quirky and likable. Despite another explicitly fascist and authoritarian character, The King, facing imprisonment after being stopped, the Queen remains outside the punishment and remains friends. Some might say the Queen realized the flaw of her actions through the revealed destruction from the release of the monstrous entities as part of her plan of unlocking the gate(forgot what it was called), but this does not counter act her plans of what she explicitly described as world domination. Instead, the reason she stopped was because this plan of world domination would harm her “own land”. Her fault with her plan was one of mis-calculation rather than revulsion of the consequences.

Although, the game is not finished, and the Queen still remains(to a good writer) a potential backstabber. But this is the ideology of the game so far

 No.12582

>>12580
I was a bit mistaken with the dialogue in that I thought the “it’s horrible” aborted the “non-pacifist” ending.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OCk4hiVeF60

Here’s clip for context. In actuality, letting both options of “It’s Horrible” and “It’s Natural” continue the “non-pacifist” run makes the abuser apologia even worse. While the “It’s Horrible” dialogue solidifies Kris as the gaslighting abuser, making “It’s Natural”, an affirmation of resistance to an abusive shithead, a valid option for continuing the Abuser “non pacifist” run(I would’ve just ended the game right there and have Noelle kill you in an act of self-defense), it again assigns self-defense to the reprehensible “evil” of violence and separate from pacifism.

 No.12584

>>12582
And the fact that neither options of “It’s Horrible” and “It’s Natural” locks you into the non-pacifist run, and that you can abort the non-pacifist run through sparing a future boss(sparing is implied to be an act of niceness, but the button of “mercy” can leave it to open interpretations of Kris feeling pity or any other non-empathetic emotion), making a “nice” Kris co-exist with these abuser options with no consequence.

It’s terrible writing in all honesty.

 No.12585

>>12584
that's probably because Toby is stuck between making wanting to be an actual shithead stuck behind tedious obscure bullshit on purpose to make a meta narrative about you the player being the abuser on purpose even if you're given multiple second chances and having to write a story with those "puppet" characters.

 No.12587


 No.12588

>>12583
Aren't these games free tho?

 No.12589

>>12588
Undertale is 10 bucks,deltarune is free for now until he feels like putting a price tag on it (maybe in 10 years when he's done,or if he needs money I guess)
>>12586
probably should be sent there now.

 No.12590


 No.12591

>>12581
I’m fine with the forgiveness angle.
The problem is that the redemption arch for a lot of these characters is non-existent.

 No.12596

>>12581
What's kind of confusing was the queen was hinted at being completely insane because the fountain was messing with her sanity and they completely Fox completely dropped that angle.
Like you said, if it's not a long-game back stab, then It's just bad writing.

 No.12716

People Ruin Undertale

 No.12718

>>12578
No.

>>12574
No.
Homestuck is better written then undertail :^)

 No.12720

Its not. Its just a good game series. Not everything in the world has to be secretly unconformerific propaganda. Thats the mentality that drove a lot of mainstream liberal media into a ditch of wokeness.

 No.12724

>>12716
>go out of your way to look at mountains of undertale porn
<people are so weird haha

 No.12751

>>12724
Eh, I like the series, helps me avoid the cancer in the future and laugh at Elvis' appalled reactions

 No.12757

Just realized that Deltarune is an anagram of Undertale

 No.12762

>>12757
I didn't realize that until you said it.

 No.12932

File: 1633914007001-0.png (59.57 KB, 960x720, ClipboardImage.png)

mem up

 No.12939

>>12757
>>12762
Wait til you realise what Ralsei is an anagram of.

 No.12959

>>12939
LOL fuck

 No.12963

>>12939
Figured it out, kek (spoilers warning) Asriel

 No.12978

>>12939
>>12959
>>12963
Sorry guys, I didn't really consider that a spoiler but I probably should have used spoiler tags so I edited it.

 No.13053

they have good music at least

 No.13336

What particular OSTs from these games (other than Memovania) do you consider to be good? Post them.

 No.13340

>>13336
Best song in the whole game imo

 No.13342

>>13336
Megalovania is kinda meh, at least for my taste. Bergentrückung is where its at.

 No.13354

>>13342
Definitely, holy shit, the first time I listened to Bergentrückung/ASGORE from the OST, I felt the music chills on the back of my neck. It's, honestly, one of the few pieces of music that have had that effect on me. Motherfucking Toby Fox.
>Megalovania is kinda meh
Yeah, it might be just way too loud and "hype" with too little variation, so much that it loses its impact. I prefer Megalo Strike Back, which is not really related to Megalovania or Undertale but people often think it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpJudi7_iiw

 No.13361

>>13336
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sab3Mi62HHE
i especially like this one as you can only listen to it after doing performing a kind act - you can even do it in genocide and have it be the only good thing you did the entire run

 No.13481

>>13342
I like Megalovania, but it's variations and edits make it better.

>>13354
>ASSGORE (Fingerfückung)…mp3
LMAO

 No.13482

Embedding error.
>>13336
I also liked Death By Glamour

 No.13483

Embedding error.
>>13482
Acapella variant

 No.13594

>>13336
I also liked this version of Asgore's theme

 No.13698

File: 1636932569757.png (779.01 KB, 1280x926, ClipboardImage.png)

This amused me

 No.13755

>>12585
I miss Toby "Radiation" Fox and not the pandering fuck that he's turned into.

 No.14401

File: 1640015059404-0.png (297.68 KB, 850x1100, 1638678668107.png)

File: 1640015059404-1.png (328.87 KB, 850x1100, 1638680086879.png)

File: 1640015059404-2.png (394.9 KB, 850x1100, 1638681902380.png)


 No.15257

>Meet stereotypical cutthroat capitalist, profitting of the corpses of her kin under the guise of "saving" them(admitting to wishing to do this to other monsters in the genocide route)
>Spare her
>She shows no signs of remorse nor plan of changing their ethic or actions
>The issue is never addressed again, and she is somehow depicted as deserving of freedom
>Leftist

 No.15258

>>12591
Covered this in another post, but Muffet is by far the worst example of this, with Alphys a somewhat close second. Muffet literally has no character development apart from refraining from killing you, and is somehow painted as "good" by the time the credits roll, showing no remorse for their greed or immoral practices. Alphys is rewarded for her cowardice through and through in what is supposed to be considered the "best" ending, and even if she is brought to justice(or really just fired) this justice is for the player's eyes only, with no word of how the news is broken to the families of the Amalgamates. You could argue that the people of Snowdin that the amalgamates return to are simply happy to have their family back, but even then nobody else in the cast(apart from maybe in silence) even brushes upon the fact. It just feels sloppy.

 No.15259

>>15257
>>15258
I kinda feel like you guys are overthinking it, you're not supposed to think the monsters did nothing wrong per se but just that by rejecting violence in dealing with them you can make a better world. I get how that message of ultimate non-violence might be 'problematic' in a real world context but Undertale isn't the real world.

 No.15262

>>15259
I get that interpretation. I mean, the whole point of Asriel's rant to you in the end is to tell you that you only got away with your pacifist strategy because of your immortality, and that as soon as you leave the Undergroun, it's the real world again.

 No.15274

>>15262
In the end, it was just him repeating the same message in goat form that he tried to tell you the entire game, albeit warped.

 No.15280

>>15259
i dunno, Undertale may not be the real world, but the same "real world" consequences from the rejection of non-(physical) violence and the "systemic"(idk if that's the right for it) violence like >>15258 still remains.

although, it's not to say that the game, Undertale, or any game for that matter, should spend every single point of its time addressing and exploring every consequence(although that would be nice ,but not realistic). In fact, criticism should be expected and guaranteed, as even with indie games, the desire to complete and finish the game commodity, whether that be through AAA game dev grind, or indie game polish, means an end to further exploration. Like, with a "finished" product in capitalism, there has never been a major overhaul of the story or game mechanics post-feedback from consumers to address criticism, just solidification or emphasis on the "finished product" identity.

altho, it's conceptually cool to think of an ever-evolving game that radicalizes and changes and is impermanent. Like it's fucking stupid, but think of a game that has multiplayer as its core gameplay loop, the "people" hate it so much that they completely delete the multiplayer element and turn it into a single player FPS. wait, holy shit i just described the opposite of fortnite.

 No.15281

>>15280
a better example for the last point would be a commodity that can develop its own values. imagine, Toby agrees with the pacifist critique and re-writes the entire game, to display a rejection of the values from the previous iteration. of course, this is no different from an update patch and it's sort of fucking stupid as you can just keep the core game and just add some dlc to address those points, but honestly all this talk is just a long way of saying fuck the "it isnt the real world" argument, although I do understand the comfort(sorry if im projecting) in "stopping" analysis with that value.

 No.15283

>>12574
Leftist? Sure
But really getting nitty gritty into leftism?

For example
Communist? No It preaches non-violence, no?

 No.16159

File: 1648017132703.jpg (Spoiler Image, 212.16 KB, 2047x693, 1596517472112.jpg)

Why does this goat demon have clawed, rabbit-like feet!? Shay, Ralsei-poster, explain.

 No.16205

>>16159
same reason it has a penis like a human. because it's a goat demon and therefore your argument is invalid.

 No.16209

>>16159
Because he is a fictional magic monster who look like a goat, not an actual anthro goat. Also, believe it or not, but rabbits do not really have pawpads.
>>16205
This.

 No.16704

>>16205
>>16209
thanks
>rabbits
Given that I care for rabbits often, I'm familiar with their lack of pads, but yeah its an uncommon fact.

 No.16708

>>13336
Original mp4 of Megalovania

 No.18512

>>13336
Big Shot but japanized

 No.18765

File: 1654834309438.jpg (122.87 KB, 800x687, PeakRabbit.jpg)

>>16209
Speaking of rabbits…

 No.18934

>>13342
Allow me to throw my hat in the ring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USVk9tGQXbo

 No.18952

>>18765
Why are they built like American southerners? Do the rabbit people live on fast food?

 No.21840

Better question, and I'd honestly like to know if you think the answer is more than "because no game otherwise":

If monsters can just spam unblockable attacks at you until you die, why don't they? Even if you factor in Invincibility frames, they could just hit you with one or two every turn and unless you're in the same position as late-genocide Frisk, you get killed.

I suppose you could argue that such attacks are extremely fatiguing, but considering that some fights(i.e Undyne) are theoretically infinite if you don't do anything to stop them, that clearly isn't a caveat for everyone.

 No.21841

>>18952
Those Cinnamon Buns ain't something to be played around with.

 No.21868

>>21840
because they're having fun "playing" with the new human.
The first one was probably the one who got pounded constantly.

 No.21877

>>21868
The first one had the prince as their doormat, you're thinking of the second one.

 No.21878

>>21840
Most monsters on the street don't even recognize you as a human as far as dialogue goes(main characters and the royal guard being the few exceptions), so it could very well be that random fighting is considered normal among monsters to some extent, and not just because you're a human.

 No.23306

File: 1665438255893.png (126.85 KB, 768x432, ClipboardImage.png)

I'm surprised none of you have hopped on this bandwagon.

 No.23309

>>15283
>Communist? No It preaches non-violence, no?
What? Communism isn't when you go monkey mode and kill without a plan.
Frisk is a human stuck in the barrier, which requires a monster absorb seven human souls to break. A human cannot absorb human souls, and Asgore only had 6 souls, Frisk, and assumed dead, Asriel's human sibling, who Asriel absorbed the soul of before seeking medical attention for, before getting fatally wounded by the villagers and dying, spreading dust onto the flower that would be imbued with determination by Gaster to become Flowey.
You have to do a pacifist route to make Flowey remember they're Asriel, because if you kill, you reinforce Flowey's idealistic maxim of "In this world, it's killed or be killed." By refusing to kill or die, you force Flowey to reach an epiphany, unblock his memories of being Asriel, and use the souls to break the barrier.
It doesn't just blankly preach non-violence, it presents a situation where violence directly goes against your material interests, because you need to refute Flowey's idealism.
IRL, communism requires challenging the idealism that makes people think capitalism is still viable.

 No.23360

File: 1665594982034.gif (3.32 MB, 600x338, Chaos_Chaos.gif)

>>23306
I liked spamton at first but the fan reaction of turning him into some kind of hobo sex pest turned me off from him
Jevil is far better anyways, imho.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WQyBHdcTdY


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