No.26599
Level design is without a doubt the worst out of any major Bethesda game ever made and I’m honest on that. The only good level in that entire game is lonesome roads campaign and that just felt like exploring through your standard draugr den in Skyrim in terms of quality of the gameplay. The rest is a nightmare, npc spawn placements are completely random as in they literally just spawn in random locations sometimes not even near any structures like what you’d think you’d expect to see in games like fallout 4, or morrowind. Enemy encounters are terrible because the map itself is quite literally unfinished(I posted an image of FNVs actual map size months ago). The lore is as shit as every other fallout title and yes this includes the original 2 fallout games because the story deviates so heavily off it’s premise that it’s hard to follow wtf is supposed to be happening unless your ignoring how absurd the situation the people in this game are.
Several sections of the map again are just unfinished and it shows. The main city near the strip actually has multiple areas to explore through but the average player won’t see them on their First play through because there’s nothing substantial in them, no quests , almost no companions to be made, the only vendor for decent weapons just gives you random over powered gear and he’s the only one available in game, the strip and the city surrounding it barely functions as a city at all. Another example of the world building being shit is just the open world by itself, the only interesting section of it that’s not near any faction occupied structures is the section with the civilized mutants Jacobstown and the quarry junction and that’s it it’s rare to find any reason to explore new Vegass map without just fast travelling to the nearest quest progression area
No.26600
>>26599In terms of role playing it’s not as satisfying as fallout 4s sometimes fallout 3 aswell at times due to the limitations of the content available means that although you can have interesting storylines with factions as a whole and get into the history of your character and surroundings at an individual level there’s barely anything to see
No companion quests to learn more about the personalities and lives of specific characters outside of dead money whom you can’t even bring with you
ordinary named NPCs don’t have the same amount of dialogue options available, they just have only a few for the quest or just job they’re assigned to and nothing else. It’s horrible, oh man
No.26601
More interesting characters with a lot better dialogue. I don't really care for any of the games as a whole though.
No.26602
>>26600There are companion quests for every single companion in the game in vanilla,did you just miss them ?
the game being unfinished and the gameplay being shallow (like fallout 3) is already known by pretty much everyone.
Also,maybe I'm making it up,but The NCR soldiers being underfunded always seemed intentional,especially when the brahmin bodyguards are well armed,and the legion use sports equipement as armor,those two being actual design choices,at the sacrifice of the gameplay.
No.26603
>>26599You can't really add verticality to deserts
No.26605
>>26602Yeah I must have but what gets me more is how you can’t keep all the companions you have
What got me the most was not being able to be with the super mutant from dead money the moment the dlc ended of having nuked the legion in lonesome road only to find zero changes in the over world didn’t ruin any sense of immersion I had playing the game for the first time enough
No.26606
>>26603Oh shut up fallout 1 and 2 did this just fine. Not to mention how mountains, generally rocky terrain near dry areas or the fact that there’s an entire section just the near the quarry having you climb up black mountain with the aid of a mutant to kill one boss isn’t enough proof that some level of both horizontal and vertical level design in new vegases map could’ve been easily implemented but just wasn’t due to funding issues
No.26607
>>26606Fallout 1 and 2 had you run around a flat desert 90% of the time too, you just had it conveyed through a map screen. You can fast travel in new vegas as well.
No.26608
>>26607That’s actually worse. Fallout 1 and 2 are a lot larger game world wise so it makes sense for most of the maps to be emptier. But fallout NV shouldn’t be as empty as it is especially not when 4 and 3 are still there with lots in their spaces aswell
And no having fast travel just makes exploration even worse as now not only is the world unfinished but having to explore new zones will feel like a chore both because the moment you don’t have to its more effective to just warp to where you want to be and because again the worlds unfinished meaning it’s not gonna be fun or immersive either
No.26611
>>26608OG fallouts had about a million times less locations to explore, in new vegas you run five minutes there'll be one. You can't just chuck the desert full of buildings either, it'll suck lore- and combat-wise, even aesthetically speaking. Sounds a lot like a you problem tbh, I explore all the locations I can even if there is fast travel. Nobody's forcing you to: don't like it don't do it. It's an rpg so you can even roleplay as someone who doesn't. Also, fallout 3 and NV had a pretty similar POI density, picrels. It's just the mountains in the middle make you do a big loop so it feels larger which was actually a design choice.
>>26609That's not very las vegas like
No.26616
>>26600>In terms of role playing it’s not as satisfying as fallout 4s sometimes fallout 3This is pure bonkers take man, New Vegas role playing and exploration is better in every aspect compared to 3 and 4. Having more location scattered around is meaningless when they are all the same supermutant/ghoul/raider infested ruin with nothing to discover or gain inside.
>because the story deviates so heavily off it’s premiseThe main theme of fallout games is post-apocalyptic society, how it humanity changes and adapts. 1, 2 and New Vegas all engage with it. Like what do you think the premise of these game is supposed to be?
No.26617
>>26616Dude here’s an actual summary of the plot of fallout from its origins to the events of the games
>follow a series of decades over declining energy reserves and geopolitical unrest the United States comes to go to nuclear war against China to maintain a level of control over the planet and secure more resources for its continued existence >as a byproduct most of the planet is sent into an immediate hell as radiation, mutated wildlife and destroyed ecosystems ravage what’s left of the bow heavily burned planet>to rebuild within NA organizations like the enclave work with civilians to provide shelter and relief while sending people off to search for solutions to repair the environment<except that’s not what happens at all turns out the enclave is a facistic organization ran by the video game equivalent of the Illuminati that somehow started the war ignoring the causes of it, for some reason need to turn people into mutants because some robot told them too and all the people that didn’t fall for their traps now roam the planet in bdsm gear carrying high power energy rifles raiding uh something because apparently in a half burnt radioactive United States it makes more sense for over half the population to try to raid than form any cohesive society except that’s not true either because factions like the NCR brotherhood and the legion show up on separate sections of the us that take down the enclave or rebuild new societies except that’s not true the enclaves back again in fallout 3 after being destroyed and neither the NCR or legion did anything to rebuild anything either because a mailman worked with another robot to destroy them and liberate new Vegas from idk just liberate new Vegas and uhhYou get the point the writing of this franchise has so much retconning and random deviations from its premise that started with geopolitical war mixed in with resources scarcity from industrial irresponsibility I struggle at times to figure out the point of these games or how they function as post apocalyptic at times
No.26622
>>26617I genuinely dont know where are you taking all that information from. What illuminati, what mutant making robot, raiders in 1 and 2 are tribals, mercenaries or slavers, they are part of broader society, and Fallout 3 is badly written game. Resource scarcity, trying to rebuild society while scavenging peaces of the old, is present in world of Fallout 1,2, New Vegas.
No.26623
>>26622Now your just being ignorant that’s taken from the games themselves
The enclave is a society of the wealthy and powerful lore wise and was the main heads conducting(ignoring the robo shit) the chaos that led to the mess of the story that is fallout. No raiders and other tribal gangs aren’t a part of anything unless you’re talking about specific factions that grew out of that. Most raider gangs spend about as much time lore wise looting randos and also killing each other. Yes fallout 3 is terribly written and can only be enjoyed if you can close your eyes to how much fucking bullshittery the writers for it took to make the story possible that straight up retcons fallout 2s ending. And the same dumbass theme is rebuildment is only present in fallout 1 2 3 and ironically 4 leaving out new Vegas because in new Vegas did at least one thing write and wrote a fallout story with an original theme the player could choose from. The “main” entries in this franchise don’t elaborate or care about the actual portion of rebuilding as anything more than a goal than what it means to the inhabitants of its world
Seriously there’s not a single point in fallout featuring the world if shit actually was getting better and what it would mean for everyone else that could start debates wether or not returning to old world society is a smart decision, wether or not the conditions present in fallout were even that bad if sections of humanity are still intact and are at greater peace these thoughts and so many more are never considered because the writing for the franchise isn’t good enough for that
No.26629
>>26623>The “main” entries in this franchise don’t elaborate or care about the actual portion of rebuilding as anything more than a goal than what it means to the inhabitants of its worldEntire story of 1 and 2 is about rebuilding society. You explore small agriculture and trade based communities, in second game you see states emerging.
>if shit actually was getting better and what it would mean for everyone else that could start debates wether or not returning to old world society is a smart decisionYou have these debates, with Unity and Enclave, one plotting to done away with all remnants of old world, the other seeking to reestablish it as it was.
No.26630
>>26598I heard a conspiracy years ago that Obsidian was offered a big bonus if the game reviewed over 9/10 Metacritic average, and Bethesda intentionally got the reviewers to give it like 8.8 and so on so they didn't have to pay up, is any of that true?
No.26631
>>26630https://www.gamespot.com/articles/obsidian-denied-bonus-over-new-vegas-metacritic-score-studio-head/1100-6366337/Apparently it's true, given that most of the bad ratings were about bugs and so on, and Bethesda were in charge of QA and release schedule, yeah, it looks like they got fucked to me. Yet more proof that Bethesda was evil from the start.
No.26637
>>26611Or they could you know. Use the time they spent on making dlcs make the ingame levels that did exist nor complete garbage
No.26638
>>26637>the ingame levels that did exist nor complete garbageno need to, because they arent
No.26649
fallout 3 is one of my most sentimental and formative games but i would be lying if i told you the quests didn't feel written by a team of aliens who don't understand human relationships
No.26657
>>26649Don’t worry every other fallout game has lore and writing in general as equally obnoxious
Still none are as bad as fallout 2 that feels more like a post apocalyptic comedy than it does a statement about the implications of industrial scale war due to how much weird garbage goes on during any run of the main setup deviating from the first game wasn’t enough
No.26661
>>26657Never understood why people are always like "Fallout is a deep and thoughtful play on the post-apocalyptic genre, exploring morality and societal development after the end of the world" when the old games have plenty pop-culture references alongside with what you said.
No.26662
>>26657is that supposed to be a bad thing
No.26663
>>26662If your a fan of the wasteland franchise that set the base for these games no having comedic elements isn’t gonna make the top down originals bad however to anyone like me that goes way too deep into video game lore this does break my experience
No.26664
>>26663The game is intended as a satire in the first place though.
No.26665
>>26664Dear god I hope so otherwise it makes bethesdas and obsidians take on fallout lore look like masterpieces of video game writing
No.26757
>>26611Just replayed fallout 3 this post couldn’t have been anymore wrong. The sheer size and density of levels available in fallout 3s city easily outpreforms new Vegas both in the quality of its levels and how many there are of them than the entire map of new Vegas. The city of new Vegas itself barely even functions as a city while the expansiveness and inter connectivity of DC makes it feel like a world within a world. New Vegas needed way more time in development to even be comparable to fo3 or 4
No.26759
>>26757>size and density of levelsmuh open world
who cares about that shit when they get repetitive quickly
No.26761
>>26757Funny thing, I replayed fallout 3 too just a few weeks ago. Of course it outperforms it in the urban areas, fallout nv takes place in a desert. We're talking locations and not interiors, take a ruler and figure out the density yourself. Outside of DC it's just as dense. Yeah they should have developed it longer but whatcha gonna do. Atleast they made about a thousand expansions for it.
No.26978
>>26761No not even there I just relayed both nv and fo3 through TTW no not even close man. The exterior spaces of NV are extremely empty in content and anything noteworthy. The most interesting thing about the open world was vault 11 purely for the story telling in it and that was it the actual exploration, level design, even level design went from interesting to flat out garbage and that’s the best the open world has to offer. This game is unfinished and suffers from way to many stupid problems as a side effect of this, this problem isn’t present in obsidians older titles nor in the outer worlds, you can’t excuse this, it’s a horrible to spend several minutes exploration by to see something like a town cave or a vault only to find almost nothing in it because the devs didn’t have the time to finish building what was supposed to be there and that aspect of gameplay is present everywhere
No.26979
>>26978>This game is unfinished and suffers from way to many stupid problems as a side effect of this, this problem isn’t present in obsidians older titles nor in the outer worldsWhat else is different in your dimension?
No.26981
>>26978Going outside DC it's literally dead trees and hills with rocks, that's not content.
No.26982
>>26981Have you played it. The same structures are present in both 3 and NV the difference in 3 is that there’s actually shit in them where as in NV it would be a miracle if it wasn’t completely totalled or conveniantly locked
No.26983
>>26982idk how many more times it must be stated that they get repetitive quickly, whats the point of being able to enter them then lmao
No.26984
>>26982This garbage wouldn’t be as bad if obsidian decided to decrease the map size even more than they already did and restrict exploration to shit that was actually finished and dlcs not just meters upon meters of empty space so you’d at least know what’s supposed to be played and what isn’t considered a small polished game is a far better alternative than an expanse of nothingness
No.26985
Anyways to close off this thread I’m gonna also explain why new Vegas has so much missing content. It’s the file size, remember this game was made severa years ago where a computer having a shitload of gigabytes worth of space just wasn’t a thing and as an effect most games coming out were typically around 3-6 gb. New Vegas is 10 due to the inexperience obsidian had compared to bethesdas main employees working with creation. and all that data also had to run on consoles meaning a fuck ton of content that was already developed for the game had to be scrapped mid development so console players would actually be able to play the game
This is the reason why the game looks graphically the same as 3 but runs worse on the same hardware specs
This is why so many locations that are available to explore look as if shit was cut out of them
This is why the game quite literally stops the moment Hoover Dam is conquered by either factions
This inexperience is the reason for why so much of the game is barren and also the driving force behind so many bugs, broken ness and general shenanigans that harm the experience to the point where the house resort next to the NCR camp new new Vegas doesn’t even have a map marker despite looking as if it was supposed to have a quest. Anyways that’s all
No.26986
>>26985You are an occupant of lalaland.
No.26989
>>26987This counters your points, not support them.
Not your most egregious move, I might add: your claim that file size was a hardware constraint in the year of our lord 2011 means you are either very young or delusional.
No.26990
thread reeks of /v/
No.26991
>>26990Seems to be a sincere dipshit.
No.26992
>>26989You also have to account for how many games the average console user in the early 2010s had installed considering back then at most you’d have 40gb or what’s possible on a phone around the late 2010s. Something like 10gb is already a quarter gone just one for one game and that’s the version with less information on it
No.26993
>>26992Along side with the fact that this also had to fit on discs for anyone purchasing a physical copy of the game
No.31631
>>26598Because FNV resembles Skyrim, the peak of shitty Bethesda game making that's only playable due to mods
FNV is literally an open desert, the mechanics are clunky and painful as fuck. It only gets playable and slightly better when you install mods that make it up to par
Fallout, Skyrim, Bethesda fans are dogshit slop eating low lQ individuals
No.31638
Every single person who shits on NV in this thread should be required to provide example of what they think a good RPG is.
No.31639
>>31638Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
It was just as rushed as FNV and even ended up being Troika's swan song, but this game is what both Bethesda and Obsidian should take as a standard when making a first-person RPG.
No.31641
>>26598REMOVE LEGION remove legion
you are worst legionnaire. you are the legionnaire idiot you are the slaver smell. return to Colorado River. to our legion cousins you may come New Vegas. you may live in the Correctional Facility….ahahahaha ,Caesar we will never forgeve you. football gear wearing rascal FUck but fuck asshole legionnaire stink Caesar sqhipere shqipare..legionnaire genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead legionnaire..ahahahahahCAESAR WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget Hoover Dam .Lanius we kill Caesar , Lanius return to your precious Colorado….hahahahaha idiot Caesar and Lanius smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE LEGION FROM THE MOJAVE. you will get caught. NCR+Rangers=kill Caesar…you will Hoover Dam/ Elise alive in Mojave, Elise making album of Mojave . fast rap Elise Mojave. we are rich and have NCR dollars hahahaha ha because of Tandi… you are ppoor stink legionnaire… you live in a tent hahahaha, you live in a yurt
Tandi alive numbr one #1 in Mojave ….fuck the Legion ,..FUCKk ashol legionnaires no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur flag and Caesar. Elise aliv and real strong Ranger kill all the legionnaire slaver with big iron now we the NCR rule .ape of the zoo Caesar fukc a super mutant and lay egg this egg hatch and Caesar's Legion wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our clay we will crush u lik a skull of pig. NCR greattst countrey
No.31642
>>31631Bruh the jannies removed the IQ > autism score filter?
No.31647
>>31639I dont think FNV would be improved by having shittier combat and locking you into a dungeon crawl for the final stretch of the game.
No.31648
>>31647also having half of the game be cut content
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