[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / wiki / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]

/games/ - Games

Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

Join our Matrix Chat <=> IRC: #leftypol on Rizon


File: 1686040126217.png (627.22 KB, 704x704, a1.png)

 No.28267

i am hoping for an industry crash, a reset of this whole mess, gaming as it is now its bad, you have to look outside the whole mainstream media and sites for good releases of indie games, triple A games are mostly generic, boring copy pasted versions of each other or remakes that capitalize on nostalgia, and lets not forget, multiplayer games, its good to have some uncompromised fun from time to time, but where are the mainstream single player, rich in story and world games? im not asking for the 50th open barren world, im asking for something creative, captivating, for me gaming is not a passtime its something that can teach us, like a book or a movie

 No.28268

File: 1686041033481.jpg (185.76 KB, 800x1018, 34.jpg)

btw im not talking from a sense of blind nostalgia, we do not yearn for old games, i think there are still good games out there to play, my problem is with the Triple A industry, i do not want to play Resident evil 4 again, ive already played it, what i want are good games not just products but labours of love, i also know you need to sell games, but we shouldnt have to sacrifice world building and lore, over trends just because people want it.

 No.28269

A crash would produce the opposite of the results you want. Smaller studios would go under while bigger studios would have enough cash to ride it out, and at the end of it they'd be even more consolidated, risk-averse, and aggressively monetized than before.

 No.28270

It will never crash. Microtransactions bring in too much money and the newer generations have no idea what it's like to pay $60 and get everything straight out of the box without shelling out additional cash for DLC, cosmetics, game modes, etc.

 No.28272

>>28270
Too much money for whom? To buy microtransactions you need certain level of investment into the game. There is a limited amount of time you have to play these games. With dozens of companies relying catching this audience and making bank on microtransactions, most will not make it. Look at MMO market. You have handful of big winners, and everybody failing to compete.

 No.28274

>>28272
gacha games would prove otherwise

 No.28275

>>28269
Seriously, where does this meme that a gaming crash would magically fix the industry even come from?

 No.28276


 No.28277

>>28267
>triple A games are mostly generic, boring copy pasted versions of each other or remakes that capitalize on nostalgia
I. e. gaming has become just another business.

What did you expect was going to happen? That's the most natural progression of gaming business. The entire point of AAA games is to be "high-budget." As the ceiling of the "high budget" increases the publishers are forced to appeal to the lowest common denominator. AA games are what AAA games were in the past, it's just that our definition of what AAA represents has shifted along with the increase in the publishers' capital.

The fundamental mechanisms of capitalism haven't changed. It's just us who never learn the lesson.

Gamers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your lootboxes!

 No.28300

>>28267
If GTA 6 fails, it would bring the whole AAA industry down, or part of it. But I don't see that likely.

 No.28301

>>28300
>If GTA 6 fails
It'll bring Rockstar down, not the whole industry. Now, if Valve fails…

Valve, Xbox, Sony, Nintendo. These huge platform holders. If they crash, the whole industry is gonna go crushing down.

 No.28302

>>28275
Last time it happened all of le big bad companies dieded out and allowed other consoles and games on the market

 No.28305

>>28302
The 70s' gaming market crush.

 No.28307

>>28302
It also allowed Nintendo to monopolistically hold the video game market and let only sanitized games approved by them to be published for NES for years until SEGA released Genesis and gave greenlight to pretty much any kind of game on their platforms as long as it is not porn.

 No.28319

>>28307
Nah, home computers still let indie studios thrive during that era but you never hear much about it

 No.28320

>>28319
Because the barrier for entry was very high.

 No.28321

>>28319
BTW I don't get this argument about small studios not being allowed to exist
The internet has probably democratized video game retail more than anything
All you need is a website and a PayPal account
>>28320
What do you mean

 No.28322

Games industry won't crash because the average consumer will keep consuming trash. Not because they have le pleb taste or whatever either, but because to most people video games are just mindless shit to do when they get home from work. They don't get invested enough to care about whether or not the game is "good" or the company isn't a dumpster fire. As long as this is the main demographic there is no limit to how shitty games can get other than being unaffordable or unplayable. If you want to fix video games you must end capitalism first (or at least win concessions for workers so they have enough free time to cultivate an interest in media beyond vegging out).

 No.28323

>>28322
If the games industry fails it means the economy as a whole must be going down the shitter and we'd have much bigger things to worry about in such a situation.

 No.28410

>>28319
>home computers still let indie studios thrive during that era but you never hear much about it
because they never thrived that much

>>28321
>What do you mean
not the guy you're replying to, but internet distribution wasn't much of a thing during the 90s, you had to physically distribute your games, which meant retailers had to sell your shit if you wanted to make it big on the PC market. there was a seizable PC niche alright, but I wouldn't call it a thriving scene for indie developers. it's a relatively new phenomenon still.

 No.28426

>>28322
>Not because they have le pleb taste or whatever either, but because to most people video games are just mindless shit to do when they get home from work
Because they don't get invested they have le pleb taste, simple. It's not about whether they have le pleb taste. It's about why they have le pleb taste. It's not about whether they are alcoholics. It's about why they're alcoholics.

In conclusion, consumerism is cringe but it's also a direct consequence of our capitalist system.

 No.28428

>>28322
All games are trash tbh. It's not exactly like the form has its Godards and Cocteaus. Even a well-made game is just a well-made distraction.

 No.28429

>>28428
>Even a well-made game is just a well-made distraction
"I don't play games more complex than Tetris and Candy Crush but I already have the expertise to judge an entire medium."

 No.28430

>>28429
C'mon. No video game is particularly emotionally or intellectually complex, and if you think there is, that probably goes to show why "gamer' has become such an insult in the last few years.

 No.28431

>>28429
>Replying to /v/ level bait

 No.28433

File: 1686142254202.png (733.52 KB, 1200x675, ClipboardImage.png)

>>28431
I have literally never been on /v/ and it's not bait. It's also not a very novel observation.
https://www.rogerebert.com/roger-ebert/video-games-can-never-be-art

 No.28437

>>28433
Roger Ebert is literally a movie reviewer.

Also, art can technically mean any form of creative activity, I find it really annoying how people conflate art in general with "high" art. Neither do I like the pretentious bourgeois "high" art either, those snobs who obsess over high art disregard any heart and uniqueness low art may have because it isn't "complex" enough.

Fetishization of high art is a spook. Art is made to excite the audience and to be aesthetically admired, not to be a bloody bourgeois status symbol.

Good art is good art. Good art is valuable, even if it's not perfect. Nothing is.

 No.28438

>>28433
>Movie slop defender criticizes game slop
kek

 No.28439

>>28437
>I find it really annoying how people conflate art in general with "high" art
Ebert doesn't do this. What heart and uniqueness does reskinned FPS/RPG/whatever #2802484 have?
>>28438
Putting things in greentext doesn't make them true. I know this is hard to understand for the average imageboard solipsist but it will be a valuable lesson to learn for life.

 No.28440

>>28437
My criteria for good art is; did it make me feel something. If it did, its good art.

 No.28442

>>28439
What does, say, Morrowind offer that every other generic role-playing game product doesn't? Maybe you could say aesthetics, but the charm doesn't last past the first 5-10 minutes. You could say the characters and storyline, but non-player characters in an RPG are more just equipment and stat providers that also point you to another random objective from time to time. The storylines are only there to help provide a framework for the accumulation of points which can lead to a "satisfying" climax. Compare that with cinema or music, which aside from the most formulaic, seasonal trash can at least have some kind of artistic vision that goes beyond shallow gratification of the viewer. The most noteworthy video games aren't even more complex or emotive than a Marvel movie.

 No.28443

>>28442
>The most noteworthy video games aren't even more complex or emotive than a Marvel movie.
And yet movies are considered art and games aren't.
Many games have better stories than anything that's come out of cinema in say the past decade alone. Who the fuck thought Blade Runner 2049 had a good narrative or was artistic in any way?

 No.28447

Why does video games being art or otherwise even matter? What is the point of this discussion other than postulating that one kind of cultural product has more value than the other? And most importantly, who gains from these discussions and their conclusions the most? Please explain.

 No.28448

>>28447
NOTHING MATTERS
LOG OFF NOW
STOP WASTING TIME DOING USELESS BULLSHIT
GET BACK TO WORK
NO FUN ALLOWED EVER

 No.28449

>>28447
You're allowed to enjoy games as long as you don't try to make them seem like anything other than mindless entertainment

 No.28450

>>28428
>It's not exactly like the form has its Godards and Cocteaus.
Sure it does, you just haven't heard of them because there isn't as much of an "arthouse" scene for video games. The only time something more avant-garde gets much attention it's meme fuel like The Stanley Parable or Undertale.

 No.28451

File: 1686156524158.jpg (82.34 KB, 1076x792, Catbike.jpg)

>>28449
If anything, one of the reasons why video games are so dumb these days is that game companies are trying to emulate Hollywood and are either making artsy tech demos or dopamine-squeezing mills that barely try to expand on the medium's unique qualities like interactivity to intellectually stimulate players. There are various interactive puzzle games out there like the Portal series and The Talos Principle, sure, but they have pretty low replay value and end up being niche in the larger scope of things even in the face of high critical praise.

 No.28452

>>28449
neurotic take

 No.28453

>>28451
>low replay value
not an inherently bad thing either

 No.28454

>>28428
what a brave and original opinion

 No.28456

>>28442
>The most noteworthy video games aren't even more complex or emotive than a Marvel movie
This comparison is downright disgusting.

>>28447
>What is the point of this discussion other than postulating that one kind of cultural product has more value than the other?
That's the point I'm making, my friend. The bourgeois cultural values have instilled the arbitrary seperation of high art and low art in the public's consciousness. To the libre culture advocates all art made with passion is valuable in and off itself. Art is a cooperative effort so even if it's not that great it can always be improved.

It's all the copyright's fault. The copyright takes the work away from the public treasury and leaves it to rot while reinforcing the idea that noone, NOONE is allowed to change or improve or share anything EVER.

Let me give two examples: Sonic Adventure games and Alpha Protocol. Sonic Adventure games are laughed at by journos but it is clear to me that the games were made with care and creativity. Same with Alpha Protocol but while with Sonic Adventure games the fans managed to patch out bugs, glitches, gameplay mechanics and graphics Alpha Protocol didn't get that treatment unfortunately and there's nothing we can do to save it.

Copyright and proprietary software corrode our culture, murder beauty and doom all projects that in the beginning had potential. And Hollywood and Silicon Valley are the ones to blame for this.

 No.28457

>>28453
Agreed. Way better than 10 years of grind in WoW.

 No.28458

>>28449
>mindless entertainment
Mindless entertainment are shitty reality shows on cable television.

Again, are you aware about the distinction between casual games like Candy Crush and hardcore games like Elden Ring? Casual games are mindless entertainment indeed. I admit it. Because they're designed that way. But you're gonna paint all games with one brush without even bringing up such basic distinctions.

You simply don't know what you're talking about while trying to pretend that you do.

 No.28461

>>28442
>Compare that with… music
Funny you bring up music because music, like games with no plot or abstract art, is incomparable to narrative-driven media. Yet you judge video games based on movie criteria while not applying the same logic to music. Hypocrisy.

The thing is, games and music can impress you even without the plot. That's their point. Unless you're deaf to the music.

 No.28463

>>28458
>Elden Ring
<You collect the MacGuffins and memorize buttonsmashing combos to defeat the Big Evil One and Become Epic
Very deep

 No.28464

>>28463
its ok, the game wasnt for you

 No.28466

>>28463
The deliberate simplification and strawmanning like that could be applied to anything. I hope you can find joy in things again one day, comrade. Godspeed.

 No.28467

>>28463
>Very deep
Applying movie criteria again. Read what I wrote.

There are many different elements in hardcore video games and some elements are more flashed out than others, Therefore calling it mindless entertainment like cheap soap operas is very condescending to all the artists who worked on the games to flash out their setting, lore, landscapes and levels.

If all you care about is the narrative then don't tell me that you admire great music or paintings. Because you're just saying that to look like you have a refined taste in them to appear smarter.

If you told chess players that what they do is mindless entertainment they would probably point you in the direction of the front door.

 No.28468

>>28466
>The deliberate simplification and strawmanning like that could be applied to anything
I don't think they even care about video games. It's just standard Randian snobbery.

 No.28470

>>28463
>Citizen Kane
<He collects clout trying to be the Big Important One and Become Epic

>Seven Samurai

<The villagers collect swordsmen to defeat the Big Bad Bandits and Become Free

>Rashomon

<They collect witnesses to determine what happened and Become Justice

 No.28471

>>28467
Shitposting or not, there is some truth to the anons post. Especially for someone who is (rightfully) trying to sublate "bourgeois cultural values", you should recognize that casual-hardcore dichotomy you argue for is also a product of bourgeois consciousness. In fact, your argument here >>28458 can easily be applied in defense of other "bourgeois cultural values", such as genre - those are also designed for.
If you want to argue Elder Ring has a communist aspect, e.g. proletarian character, then you will have to actually provide your reasoning because I'm not seeing it. Likewise, your (and others) attack on film seems confused. Popular, bourgeois mediums like, yes, Citizen Kane and The Good, The Bad, The ugly, are trite film because they are subject to the bourgeois limitation.
The same goes for virtually all video games. However, the same can not be said about film. Rare as they may be, films like Saló, Mayday: MAYDAY, etc. prove that there exist film with communist aspect. Personally waiting on the same to happen to "video games", and help it along myself as much as I can.

 No.28472

>>28471
I think the key to understanding this is that while a game could be communist by intention; (disco) it can also just be communist by virtue of it being produced in a communist country. Sort of like how you would agree that neo-liberalism produces neo-liberal games in every aspect, as they are all productions of neo-liberal ecomonys

 No.28474

>>28472
Actually forgot about Disco Elysium. Fair point. Disco to me lacks an active quality though. On the other hand, while writing my reply I realized there is still a lot of confusion among the bourgeois about Disco, so maybe it was not as easily subsumed as I assumed.

>it can also just be communist by virtue of it being produced in a communist country.

My argument precludes that the proletariate produces communist works (as proletarians necessarily exceed the bourgeois limitation if not frustrated).

 No.28478

>>28471
>you should recognize that casual-hardcore dichotomy you argue for is also a product of bourgeois consciousness
The guy was saying that games in general are "mindless entertainment." I've simply made that distinction because he's not entirely wrong but rather overgeneralizing. Casual games are designed to be simplistic and addictive, their only goal is for you to waste your time on a bus stop. That's their design goal, there's no way around it. Many include microtransactions and grinding to suck you out of your money as well. Just look at the mobile gaming market.

Bourgeois not in the sense of ideology but rather in what cultural medium is used by bourgeoisie as a status symbol. As you may know, Western art music was played primarily to kings, it wasn't particularly accessible to commoners unlike folk music. Which means that those who pretentiously try to paint themselves as Western art music connoseurs while putting down popular music composers are simply snobby pseudo-bourgeoisie who want to feel special.

 No.28480

>>28471
Most communist games I can remember from recent times are Sonic Forces and Hi-Fi Rush. The first one is a shitty one unfortunately. It also has only light antifa and environmentalist themes (with weirdly communist aesthetics). The second one brings up worker exploitation and promotes libre software (which is ironic for a proprietary game that has Denuvo, I know).

 No.28481

>>28480
But hey, the Resistance in Sonic Forces is a democratic council. So I dunno, I dunno.

The plot is still shit.

 No.28494

>>28481
Making your own fursona was worth it

 No.28497

>>28478
>Bourgeois not in the sense of ideology but rather in what cultural medium is used by bourgeoisie as a status symbol.
I must insist you have not understood this. They are the same thing.

>>28480
There is nothing communist about either game.

 No.28498

>>28480
The most communist game aside from strategies that I have played was probably Red Faction, which is about miners on Mars revolting against a corporation that has employed them here but been denying them things like proper medical service, not giving them enough pay while making them work overtime and overall treating them like shit in the name of monetary gain. Over the game's course you have to take part in a revolt in the mines, infiltrate the corpo's HQ on Mars and interrogate the mining colony's administrator, uncover the said corpo's unethical experiments and fight through an army of space Pinkertons who try to nuke the whole colony. in an attempt to cover the whole mess up and absolve Ultor of any responsibility. The ending heavily implies that in the end Ultor got shitcanned by the Earth government and the colony ends up falling into the colony's workers' control.

 No.28594

>>28480
sonic forces isnt communist at all i played that game the only thing about it is the theming of the interface which is why you might be confused

 No.29203

>>28471
good insight. but how many people, proportionally, are communist in your country? most games are submerged in bourgeoisie morality, even unintentionally
be vigilant for indie studios, who sometimes are more motivated by being able to exchange ideas rather than profit. i think thats the side of the industry with more marxist potential

 No.29208

>>28276
/v/ wants the industry to crash because they think it'll fix an oversaturated industry filled with soulless corporate games.

I want the industry to crash because my backlog is too large and I need to stop buying new games.

 No.29210

>>29208
I frankly think coalescence of the larger companies in the industry is going to happen sooner than a crash. Case in point: ongoing buyouts of AAA video game publishers and developers by Microsoft, with EA's CEO having said in August 2022 that thet are open to an acquisition if Microsoft gives them a decent deal.

 No.29213

>>28275
Liberals, mostly.

 No.29214

I don't understand OP at all. What causal mechanism could there be in OP's mind between the game industry crashing and games then becoming better? I can imagine modders and hobbyist programmers infringing on Eye Pee rights being less at risk of getting sued, but hobbyists tweaking and remixing and remaking tends to be highly derivative activity which OP seems to loathe.

 No.29281

>>29203
An author identifying as communist is irrelevant. It is about the work doing communism.

>i think thats the side of the industry with more marxist potential

"Indie" is just another leg of the industry, make no mistake. It is possible for communism to spontaneously occur, but I do not agree it is more likely to happen with indie devs. Whoever does it, under present conditions it would be a fluke. A happy, little accident. Again, see film.

 No.29283

File: 1689445799834.jpg (573.71 KB, 1536x2048, F06Gp54aQAI_E7U.jpg)

AAA gaming will never be good again, a crash won't reset things, but just place it in hiatus, because the ideas that turned AAA games into what they are today cannot be unconcieved. Play indie stuff instead.

 No.29284

>>29283
Street Fighter 6 is great

 No.29285

>>29284
Oh true, but I imagine it takes a lot of fighting off execs to keep integrity like that, hence the general trend.

 No.29293

>>29210
I'm in full agreement, honestly.

 No.29294

>>29284
SF6 feels like a giant apology for SF5 being a rushed heaping pile of dogshit with no content and nonfunctional online.

 No.29299

File: 1689514875949.jpg (97.3 KB, 736x736, neckbeard dragon.jpg)

>>29283
AAA gaming being shit does not even have much to do with ideas than with the fact that they appeal to shareholders that fund and supervise the studios: people, who like every porky worth their salt prioritize maximization of profit over delivering a well-made product.
Microtransactions have de facto supplanted pure retail sales and even selling extra content in profitability while requiring almost no risks or new content input, and so we see AAA-scale studios invest more into live services and other easily milkable venues than boundary-pushing, high-quality games like before the mid-2010's, where that kind of focus on monetization was mostly restricted to browser games like Evony or Farmville.
One can hope that the recent legislations against microtransactions across the world might help stop this plague, but as long as China, Worst Korea and other "whale" countries that provide most of the MTX revenue do not step up to seriously combat and discourage the practice, I think it will not have much effect.

 No.29347

sf6 has no neutral

 No.29372

>you have to look outside the whole mainstream media and sites for good releases of indie games
Industrialized art is bad. This statement generalized to music, films, posters, etc., etc.


Unique IPs: 23

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / wiki / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]