No.29920
>and that he'll never have a chance to shoot Rene
I think you missread Deserters feelings here.
No.30070
>>29920>I think you missread Deserters feelings here.how so? he literally says he's saving a bullet for Rene, for the darkest of days, when he's ready to shoot himself, he'll shoot Rene Arnoux instead. He despises Arnoux as an openly reactionary royalist strutting about in his uniform. He even says he spies Rene through the scope of his rifle some days and plays with the trigger.
No.30076
>>30070Yes but it's obvious that he also sympathies with him as another old soldier and uses his hatred of him to keep moving on
No.30078
>>30076'sympathy' might be the wrong word, but 'relates to'
No.30079
>>30076everything in this post is true but also doesn't contradict the original statement
> I like how sad Dros is when he finds out that Rene died and that he'll never have a chance to shoot Rene No.30095
>>30087
He reminds me of a typical sneaker reseller.
I think you can even buy a pair of hype sneakers from him.
No.30101
Its entirely my fault but I ruined this game for myself by not finishing 3 or 4 playthroughs and now I dont have the patience to sit through the first 3/4ths to see the end.
No.30103
>>30101Sorry anon, why not just watch a no commentary stream from where you left off?
No.30105
>>30103Good idea.
furthest I got was preparing to meet the leader of the SKULLS, had the meeting set up and everything, how far into the game is that?Just wonder if it'd be worth yet another attempt once enough time has passed or if I should just do your suggestion
No.30116
>>30105Do you mean in the communism sidequest?
No.30129
holy shit I keep redtexting instead of spoilering fffffuuuuuuuuu
>>30116yes I do but dont worry about it lol Ill replay it eventually
No.30297
>>30080I love this detail. It's right there at the start.
No.30312
>>30291The way I see it, there are two possible readings of this character.
The first one would be your interpretation, where despite his numerous unethical actions and gross behavior Evrart still represents a better alternative to the capitalists.
Alternatively Evrart could be a sort of DE version of a Dengist/Market Socialist. Because of his leftist background he has a superior understanding of capitalism and its failings, while at the same time he can't imagine a world without it. He might make a big deal out of being a true socialist, but what does he ask you to do when he sends you to the slum? Extend the mutual aid network of the union to the inhabitants? Propangandise? Arm them for the coming conflict with the Wild Pines Group? No, he sends you there to get signatures for a development scheme, that will make the line go up. He probably is right about this improving living satndards in the future, but such an investment makes no sense if he really plans for the strike to escalate into a revolution.
No.30314
>>30312I thought it was an interesting exercise in 'bad guy coding', which you rarely see in fiction, that he is presented as a despicable slime yet he is basically the person working most for the good of the people. On the other hand you have the oligarch woman who is very affable and intelligent yet clearly is working for evil means. Just like real life plenty of 'nice' people are working for pure evil.
No.30324
>>30323> I did all the commie things ( I think, at least) and he still said I was a bourgeois degenerate.too real
No.30360
>>30087
Jesus, this guy. you cant believe how many of these types we have here in the third world
No.30361
>>30312>such an investment makes no sense if he really plans for the strike to escalate into a revolutionpeople need houses before, during and after the revolution. why does it make no sense?
No.30446
>>30312>Arm them for the coming conflict with the Wild Pines Group? No, he sends you there to get signatures for a development scheme, that will make the line go up. He probably is right about this improving living satndards in the future, but such an investment makes no sense if he really plans for the strike to escalate into a revolution.Yea, i think the point of that quest was a take on and critique of the 'moral dilemma' subquests you see in a lot of modern RPGs despite their not being really one there, I do not really buy the thing about line go up, he wanted to build a community center and revolution or not the community center is going to be a good thing, the not developing the land because there are a bunch of squatters on it is kind of silly, isn't it? Wouldn't it be better to simply house those people, and so on?
>>30314This is basically my read on it to, iirc there was also a line he makes about presenting the image of the corrupt union boss, because, well, that's what people want and expect.
It's also notable that basically nobody in the local community or who works in the docks has anything bad to say about him really, even when pressed.
>>30418I didn't arrest her, i wanted to keep her around in case i had any more questions and i didn't want one less character to talk to. Going to arrest her next play through maybe.
No.30564
>>30291At first glance he seems like an opportunist and a class collaborator but he turns out to be pretty radical.
I mean, lets see, the strike isnt just for better conditions, its more of a "takeover", as Harry describes it to Joyce, and he talks about wanting to "incorporate" the whole city into the union. The hardie boys are the paramilitary wing of the union and he has you harass a fascist as your first job. He's also doing everything he can to increase the pressure on the company, from ostensibly murdering their private police to refusing to engage in dialog with Joyce and when you tell him the Tribunal is coming to town he seems happy about it. After the shootout the town is adorned with red flags
Hes pretty based as is but especially so when compared to the two other versions of communists in the game, the book clubbers and the lone wolf terrorist. They can claim Evrart is a socdem all day but what they heck is their alternative? The students claim to be an independent organization and I could only laugh and think "ya, independent from the working class", and the deserter is just some schizo hiding from society.
I mean what even are Evrarts faults? He comes off like a douche at first but you're a cop so go figure. Your attempt at finding a loophole in the real estate deal is just a noise complaint which is weak sauce, typical nimby argument against development, and the people in the fish village say it'll take more than that to drive them out, and tbh their concerns are irrelevant anyway, they're basically squatting in a slum.
No.30570
>>30562It's not Dolores Dei. It's Dora, Harry's ex-something, whom he has mixed up with the historical figure Dolores Dei in his mutilated brain. They do have a few thing in common, at least from Harry's slanted perspective.
The conversation is fairly free of metaphors, it's basically your big chance to explore the reality of Harry's old crashed love relation, the one that's alluded to throughout the story.
No.30573
>>30291Didn’t he stab the deserter in the back after getting him to kill someone?
It’s been a while but I remember you could press the deserter on this point and he would tell you.
No.30578
>>30573I too could be wrong but I haven't been able to find any info at all about Dros' and Edgar Claire's interactions after the assassination you refer to, and I don't think any backstabbing took place. My speculation would be that the Claires (correctly) considered him a potential future asset and simply let him be, after offering him a bunch of supplies to keep him alive (something the deserter himself loathed).
One reading of the game's political events is that the Claires engineered the situation really precisely in order to bootstrap a perfectly winnable small scale civil war. It would be 4D chess on the fly, but remember that Edgar Claire (the unseen twin brother) is implied to be a political and strategic genius.
No.30595
>>30564EXCTLY! Thanks anon, i have not seen any readings of him like this online and am glad I am not alone in believing this.
Feels kind of sad how the most interesting and revolutionary character who with every action is explicitly hightening the contradictions.. I mean how can we even say he is for personal power when his entire plan and point of rupture is to put EVERY WORKER on the board? lol.
>>30573How did they stab him in the back though? They never once mention him and despite being the only ones who know he is there they keep his secret?
>>30588This seem like a weak complaint from the Deserter to me, as the very context of the game is the workers uprising, is the Deserter just mad it does not look like he wants it to look? An old soldier to which there is only one soluton to anything.
No.30619
Isn't it interesting that in order to progress beyond a certain point in the game, you need to either agree with or beat up a racist. No doubt the average commie would find this to be so basic a point as to gloss right over it but I bet your typical liberal would be extremely torn over the choice between compromising their ideals or using physical force to uphold them. Dros' momentary lapse of faith in Mazovianism when being attacked by the Coalition or whoever echos that "might makes right" theme
>>30595Keep in mind the hitjob happened 20 years prior, that's a long time to wait before seeing a return. On the other hand it's not realistic to think whacking a single person is going to bring about some radical change period let alone immediatly (ironically, killing the merc does in fact do this but only indirectly) and that's where my main critique of Dros lies; he comes across as an idealist and, despite his willingness to kill, a bit of a moralist. to give at least one example, he isn't impressed at all but the tribunal shooting in fact he's horrified at the loss of life which kinda contradicts his pining for "girl child revolution"
but ya, I had all those same thoughts about current situation contradicting his doomer mindset but I guess it's just not good enough for him. I mean he literally says a revolution is impossible now so
No.30620
>>30619Can't you also beat him with facts and logic?
No.30621
>>30620oh darn is that true? Ive done two playthroughs, first time I internalized his racism and the second time I beat him up. I guess if you have high int you can just win a debate or something? In that case ew liberalism lol
No.30623
>>30619For me I did not really view Dros through the lens of politics per se, which might seem a bit weird because i explictly did for everyone else in the game, idk though i see him as a product of trauma through the war and seeing the horrors that reactionaries will inflict to stop us creating something and also through the trauma of his life alone, his complete rejection and closing off of any interaction with his actual community,which has led him over the years more and more to fall in to the reactionary stance we see him in, where he obviously thinks he holds firm the convictions of Mazovianism but ultimately his actions revolve around little but ressentiment at this point.
Maybe it's nothing also but always felt it was notable that Gaston is the only one who smiles and looks visibly content in the images of the three old men of the revolution and seemingly the only one who found any contentment or a kind of peace in his old age for the trauma of war all three of these at the time children were subjected to.
Fuck. I really liked this game anons. Need to finish this second play. First RPG in decades that was interesting enough to just think about and discuss and re-enlightened me to what the genre can be.
Gason. Gason Martin. Aston. Aston Martin. Yes. I just now got this. what a shit gag.>>30621You can also just go round the back, my first play i didn't even speak to him, i only spoke to him on the new playthrough i started.
No.30632
>>30631You know, I did something like that in my very first playthrough long ago but never did it again. I could've sworn though that I jumped from inside the Union and out onto the roof of Cuno's shack but now that you mention it I remember you jump from the roof of the little entrance building out onto the balcony. interesting interesting. i think that might still jive with my original analysis. You either have to agree with, fight, or circumnavigate the racist xd
>>30623ya Dros is super bitter, angry and has a lot of pride. I'd need to replay the game while paying more attention to have a good analysis but Im starting to thinnk ur point about him just being a soldier is a good one. Wasnt he snatched up as a teen and indoctrinated into communism and the military? Yet when the first sign of resistance arrived he not only deserted his post but the ideology. I think he's just waiting around for someone to deliver a revolution to him on a silver platter tbh. He holds both theory and practise in disdain, putting jargon in scare quotes and decrying the Union yet claims to be the one true leftist
No.30640
>>30621ok no you're right actually, I guess I did adopt advanced race theory in order to get past him lol, I didn't remember that
No.30641
>>30632I think it's pretty obvious that the developers don't think Dros is in the right and are just portraying him as a bitter old failure.
No.30645
>>30641its a direct critique of bolshevism i think. thats why when you ask dros if hes a priest motivated by your intuition, he says hes the opposite, "a man of the future". his dogmatic response makes it seem like hes the other side of the same coin
No.30654
>>30323why do you want the approval of an insane coward? hes a failure, who cares what he thinks about you?
>>30335yeah and you have to agree about sending artists to sib-i mean yekokataa
No.30676
>>30654GOOD MORNING, YEAH, ONE TWO THREE
YEKOKATAA, THE PLACE TO BE
No.30690
>>30323>Also, anyway to get my hands on the game with the Chapo VO? I want it because I'm retarded.it's awful compared to the new voice actors but you can activate it in the options menu somewhere
No.30708
>>30692Possibly the greatest quote in the game
No.30898
>>30708>not "The mask of humanity fall from capital. It has to take it off to kill everyone — everything you love; all the hope and tenderness in the world. It has to take it off, just for one second. To do the deed. And then you see it. As it strangles and beats your friends to death… the sweetest, most courageous people in the world… You see the fear and power in its eyes. Then you know. That the bourgeois are not human."Think about that one a lot.
No.30899
>>30564There is no concrete answer to be given here, as the game is (purposefully?) vague what the Claire twins plans and prerogatives are.
I'd argue he is just another petite cloaking himself in socialist rhetoric to gain power. The "praxis" opposite to Joyce's "theoria"; two sides of the same, bourgeois coin.
However, that is interpretation, and I one the text does not support explicitly nor broadly. Besides, as you point out, brass tax is that he is the only workable option we are shown. The one, real, critical note the game gives is that Edgar (a character we never speak to) is the brains, and implies Evrart is just executing what his brother tells him.
Joyce-cunts do not interact.
No.30910
>>30899 The answer is that the militant union are the
real movement that are actually doing something, as opposed to "ideologically pure" communist students reading shit theory.
The joke is at the expense of every dumb asshole passing judgements on others not being communist enough.
No.30912
>>30910I fail to see people like Evrart in real life though lol.
No.30917
>>30910The game goes further than that. The ideologically pure wafflers are very much embodied by Joyce. The game, in turn, is smart enough to recognize that there is an opposite side to that and that's Evrart and his gluttony.
You are right though, the thing everyone inside and outside the game misses - even, if not especially, Dros - is that the real movement is happening right under their noses.
Just like in real life. Unique IPs: 30