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File: 1626245929352.png (824.79 KB, 1080x864, Cupace20210714083437.png)

 No.18335

GQ:Are there political or social ills that that you think might benefit from the sort of entropy that psychedelics can introduce into our consciousness?

Pollan:I do and I don't. I do in the sense that the experience addresses what I see as two of the biggest problems we face as a society. One is an environmental crisis, born of our sense of distance from nature: our willingness to objectify nature and see it merely as a resource. The other is tribalism: our inability to see the other as like us, and the egotistical zero-sum game with other people, whether it's other countries, other races, other religions.

Along comes these medicines that actually change consciousness in those two domains, very specifically, by making us feel really connected to nature, that we sense the subjectivity of other species. Which should lead to treating them with more respect and care, and feeling a deep implication that you're part of nature, not just a spectator. And then, on the tribalism side, [it] makes you feel deeply connected to all different kinds of other people. So you could argue that this is exactly the drug we need right now.

But then you need to stand back and say, “Wait, is it possible to prescribe a drug for an entire country?” How many people do you have to give this experience before you change the culture? And that was something Timothy Leary spent a lot of time on, he had these predictions of how many people he'd have to trip before the world changed. There's no model for prescribing treatment to a culture. That takes you into a really terra incognita of social change. I think, for that stuff, we still need politics.


Is he right? Will Psychedelics help with archieving the lower stages of communism, or are they to advanced, so that only in a well developed democratic dictatorship of the proletariat they can help transition further into full gay luxury psychedelic space communism?thinkThink

 No.18336

>>18335
Yeah we are going to build a social order where people don't feel the need to blow out their brains with drugs. If this stuff helps you coping with capitalism and you can manage the side effects and or addiction, we won't judge you, but there's no way a socialist society is going to push that stuff on people. Don't turn your chemical abuse habits into a culture, social model or political project.

 No.18337

>>18336
Sry, but can you maybe read the title or the post? I'm talking about psychedelics as in LSD, Psylocibin, Mescaline and the likes.
They have basically zero potential for addiction, and you can only enjoy "them" if you already enjoy your sober lived experience in general.
Tldr: It could be meditation for proles, because it doesn't take much effort and time to do, but can give you life altering experiences, stripping you of your ego, and showing you, how the world really is, for a short period of time.fedFed

 No.18338

kys hippy addictdirectxDirect X

 No.18339

fuck off debauceedirectxDirect X

 No.18340

>>18338
No!
>>18339
That's not my name.fedFed

 No.18341

Magic mushrooms are fucking dope

 No.18342

>>18335
>making us feel really connected to nature, that we sense the subjectivity of other species
>makes you feel deeply connected to all different kinds of other people
If you go into the trip with that mindset then sure, but they won't turn you into a hippy if you aren't already one. Psychedelics will give you what you expect from them.

This might be worth reading:
https://www.psymposia.com/magazine/lucy-in-the-sky-with-nazis-psychedelics-and-the-right-wing/

 No.18343

>>18342
Thanks for the article.
Most people won't turn into either esoteric fascists, nor into communist jesus though.
I think the majority of people will, however as has been reported, have a better, more lucid connection to themselves and to their loved ones, which is one step in the right direction.
I as a communist think, that if everyone acted in their real self interest, including class consciousness obviously, there could be an advanced form of socialism, immediately. It is the masses in their slumber, with their petty grievances to one another, and ultimately themselves, who could, only by a small nudge, be a little bit more open, thereby more class conscious and some of them might even realize, what has to be done, or in the case of fascism, not done.
They might'nt turn into outright heroes or villains, but maybe into a society of slightly nicer people, and such a society is lightyears ahead in terms of not falling to fascism or even moving in the direction of socialism, once it becomes apparent enough, that it's the only alternative to barbarism, we have.fedFed

 No.18344

File: 1626403836181-0.png (6.48 KB, 270x270, 4-HO-MET.png)

File: 1626403836181-1.png (50.66 KB, 3000x3161, 4-HO-MiPT.png)

File: 1626403836181-2.png (8.18 KB, 393x215, 5MeOMALT.png)

File: 1626403836181-3.jpg (150.88 KB, 966x720, 1P-LSD.jpg)

>>18335
Does anyone else here do psychedelic research chemicals? 4-HO-MET and 4-HO-MiPT are 2 of the best ones in my opinion. 4-HO-MET = party shrooms and 4-HO-MiPT = alien shrooms. 5-MeO-MALT is another one that I managed to have a breakthrough experience on when I vaped the freebase. There's also 1P-LSD which is basically legal acid.

 No.18345


 No.18346


 No.18347

>>18335
i've done psychedelics, and personally i never got the one-with-everything experience. I know people who have, I guess. But from what people report it seems like it's not there all the time. I have however had those experiences just contemplating the world, and nature, and reading shit that just contains the idea, and contemplating on that. I think it would be way more direct and fruitful to just try to nudge people overtly and with language into seeing the interconnectedness of things, and shifting their perspective around and out of their own situation, so they can imagine the situation of others. This doesnt need drugs, and also doesnt point to a single political direction. It's really just good for individual human development, psychologically.

That said I think people should try psychedelics. They definitely give you novel experiences. Honestly I encourage everyone to take psychedelics during normal daily life at least once. They can best be described as consciousness enhancers (not that they don't modify things a ton also though), and it will get you to really feel what you feel, and think what you think. There's no running away and skimming on the surface with them. Or at least its harder.

Another part that makes things less straight forward is that people use psychedelics in different ways. Some people only candy flip, or trip during a weekend in nature, so every trip basically is free from critique of the world, and is mentally and emotionally kind of compartmentalized. It's pure recreation.
Then there's people who go into it looking for the secrets to the universe. They will usually find those secrets. And they'll be wrong and stupid, because psychedelics don't give you anything new that wasnt already known to you (at some time at least) or able to be known to you. If you come away thinking you saw god and god loves you and wants you to pick up litter and tell everyone you love them…. not much harm, but also that's a huge problem in your thinking and these substances shouldnt be approached that way imo.
Another way is just trying to see how the substance can change your perception, and use that to inform you…. how your perception can be changed. Which is super valuable! We learn a lot by what we lose, e.g. objective vision of reality.
The last way though is maybe the most difficult because it requires letting go and just experiencing the experience, and dealing with it basically exactly as you would any experience in life. And honestly I usually come away from psychedelics going "wow normal reality is way more psychedelic than I thought". You begin to understand how frail your sense of reality is, how important memory is and just random senses that you have no control over, like sense of time or your vision or train of thought. And in these experiences, its not really much different from hardcore meditation, where your past might be brought up, or your present, and this is the best use, as a consciousness expander, linking things together and bringing things out. All these ideas need to be re-checked for validity when you're sober, but anyways this is my personal opinion of where psychedelics shine. All uses are fine, some uses (too often for too long) will fry your brain. And some will delude you.


Also on a sort of ethical note, isnt there something kind of too easy in the idea of everyone consuming a certain thing in order to bring about social change? This is basically the ideology of Starbucks, for example. The best and worst thing about communism is that it's the dream of a world where people wake up, and stand up, and come together to fight for a common goal, for their own dignity and ability to live a good life. This is hard, and thats why its valuable. People need to really understand what they're doing and why. But maybe psychedelics could give them a push. Just maybe though, I've also seen people say that e.g. giving nazis psychedelics, they can just become more adamant about their beliefs… It's not fundamentally change inducing. I think in people with a sharp mind, and who know how to think well, it could cause your thought to progress rapidly or in a novel way. But for people who's whole thought process is fucked up, it might just take them around their own fucked up thought process. The biggest realization I got on my first trip was "you get out what you put in", wrt to thoughts. When you start with some idea, you generally end with it, no matter how much you look at it. Psychedelics take you to a place of pure thought for lots of the time. You arent really integrating new information. And new information is whats needed for development in thoughts. So if you already think something, chances are you'll confirm that.

 No.18348

>>18337
hey BTW, I've been reading about cults, and one thing that's super neat is how they use trances to suspend thought so that you stop yourself from criticizing their bullshit, or stop yourself from feeling bad also due to how meditation and trance states effect the brain. Doesn't this remind you of western mindfulness meditation that's being pushed so hard? You feel bad overwhelmed and stressed? Go empty your mind and then come back to work.

Anyways, meditation is already meditation for proles, except the meditation being pushed by businesses and media right now is the most dumbed-down, feel-good, quick-fix no-thinking kind of meditation out there.


(also i disagree that psychedelics show you how the world "really is". They can help you model the world in new ways, but there's no "world how it really is". If you think you've found some kind of Truth underneath reality, accessed via drugs, you're on the same shit as fundamentalists who think god talks to them)

 No.18349

>>18344
Sadly in many countries they're illegal, and so things like 4-subbed tryptamine rc's aren't available at all, because somehow nobody on the dw sells them. :(
At least they developed a new lysergamide called 1-v-lsd by now.

 No.18350

Just use LSD as a party drug like it actually is please

 No.18351

File: 1626947951066.jpeg (175.13 KB, 888x499, 1625080141151.jpeg)

>>18350
Yes! LSD is a party drug. One best used for the worker's party.eurocommunismEurocommunism

 No.18352

>>18350
t. never done LSD

 No.18353

>>18347
>Then there's people who go into it looking for the secrets to the universe. They will usually find those secrets. And they'll be wrong and stupid, because psychedelics don't give you anything new that wasnt already known to you (at some time at least) or able to be known to you. If you come away thinking you saw god and god loves you and wants you to pick up litter and tell everyone you love them…. not much harm, but also that's a huge problem in your thinking and these substances shouldnt be approached that way imo.

I unironically want (wanted?) to do this, it's 100% going to end in me frying my brain right? I've been going through some serious soul searching and I honestly want a way to get out of my head and/or give myself a way to get out of the perception I've built over time through various traumas and simple reflection and willpower has not worked so I want to go nuclear.

Seeing God is a plus I guess, as an ex Catholic it would be interesting to have an experience of divinity like some people do on DMT.

I'm basically just scared shitless of life and dying and am wondering if cooking my shit with drugs may help lmao

 No.18354

>>18353
imo being psychologically stable is an absolute prerequisite for doing psychedelics or you're going to have a bad time. i don't know how to feel about psychedelic therapy in a clinical setting, but taking psychedelics with your buddies or worse yet alone isn't going to "fix" you.

 No.18355


 No.18356

Honestly, people who believe that psychedelics are somehow a tool towards understanding are, well, tools themselves. There is nothing in psychs which can replace the thoughtful activity and actual practice. They offer no shortcuts and people who believe to have understood something from something as superficial as drugs are imbeciles. Drugs are a coping mechanism in our oppressive times, and while I personally have taken them several times, never have I thought that they were anything more than chemicals. Even when I was taking 500ug together with weed I retained a clarity my tripping compatriots didn't seem to have – I fully understood processes of what a drug does and I didn't pretend I am getting any insight. They, on the other hand were buffoons thinking that their peaks were something to be caught and used to guide their lives in a positive direction (surprise: once the peak and psych wore off, they couldn't retain that experience and that made want to do *more* drugs, instead of, you know, actually changing their behavior).

Taking psychs doesn't help you understand the processes behind capital production. Neither does it help you understand anything. It's a drug. It makes you hallucinate. If you believe there is more to it, you are partaking in bourgeoisie idealism. It doesn't offer insights to "lower level communism" and it sure as shit doesn't help in agitating and *actually* building socialism. For that you need a clear head.bolshevikBolshevik

 No.18357

File: 1626963341176.png (654.81 KB, 488x516, nofunallowed.png)

Eat mushrooms, have a good time and learn a bit.

 No.18358

So what do we think of him (and acid communism)?

 No.18359

File: 1626976175592.jpg (66.41 KB, 539x960, 162615365118.jpg)

>>18356
I mean, I mostly agree with this. I use LSD and Mushrooms and the like as a pressure relief valve to help me unwind after a year or so of pressure under capitalism and every day life. I do think I understand and have become more comfortable with death and my personal mortality after doing psychedelic drugs. When you experience full ego dissolution it kinda humbles you; it's a little death, in a way.

 No.18360

I've managed to turn two people into communists while under the influence of LSD (or LSD+cocaine). Even after their trips they started reading leftist literature. Im not saying drug use is good or enlightening, but I do genuinely believe the use of psychedelic drugs can tear down mental barriers/biases built up by bourgeois culture,

 No.19058

>>18358
>acid communism
What faith befails me if I am able but do not take LSD under acid communism?

 No.19059

>>18358
>fate
>befalls

 No.19060


 No.19061

>>18336
>all drugs work like opium

 No.19366

>>19058
gulag

 No.21736

>>21735
A. I'm not a doctor
B. I'm not a well enough versed psychonaut to comment on individual psychadelics and their chemistry
But, I would recommend tapering off your Zoloft for a week or two before your dose. When I tripped acid I was off lexapro for a whole week before tripping, then I just started back up the next day.

 No.21738

>>21735
>I'm depressed and suicidal etc, you know the drill, and want to try psychedelics before I kms.
Sounds like a terrible idea.

 No.21739

>>21737
I was always told that tripping needs a plan, like a real life road trip or something, and I think that's totally accurate. I halved my dose for a week in advance, then went off completely for a week. Depending on the ssri you might have to be off it more or longer.
Also, depending on your dosage, you might not even need to be totally off your meds in the first place.
>The active ingredient in Zoloft, sertraline, takes about six days to clear from the body. However, the body breaks down sertraline into metabolites, which can take up to two weeks to clear the body.
https://druggenius.com/half-life/zoloft/
this guy didn't have a great time with the combo
https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=111001

 No.21741

>>21738
also this. You need to be in a good state of mind before the trip or you're gonna have a bad time.

 No.21743

>>21742
I would assume anything that doesn't mess with serotonin, but I would do more research

 No.21744

anyone had any experience with research chems? i can get them easily enough where i live. tryptamines seem really really interesting

 No.21745



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