/hobby/ - Hobby

>>26552
You do understand that this is from the point of view of one of the characters yes? As I have stated before, if one read "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" there are very much different ideals being presented and spoken. Sholohov did not hate communism, but he had characters that, in his literature sided against them and having generalist anti-communist views, just as he had characters that did the opposite.

>>26553
See >>25411 hypocrite that you are.
Also Already made one, not addressed at the time of my response, therefore, no further argument got made.

>>26557
>Pop Team Epic
Unpopular opinion I know but they boring shite, and crappy as a meme.
Also how the fuck isn't capitalism a development of feudalism, it's literally the progression of the material dialectics. The entire reason the petit bourgs revolted against the French Monarchy in France, had been the centuries of capital/merchant growth that soon began to be cramped by the Nobility and Royalty.

>>27452
>Also how the fuck isn't capitalism a development of feudalism
Because they operate on two very distinct modes of production. If capitalism was just a development of feudalism, you would expect that it would just naturally and peacefully transition as the feudal system evolved instead of needing revolutions and massive land and political reforms that effectively abolished the feudal order even in the countries where the aristocracy was kept around in a largely vestigial state.

>>27449
If you're suggesting that the heroes are supposed to be villain protagonists, there's literally nothing to suggest this, and everything to suggest that Heinlein wanted to you sympathize with his characters and agree with the Federation's point of view.

>>27453
> they operate on two very distinct modes of production
Yeah no shit, but that doesn't change the fact that capitalism arose from feudalism as the inevitable change of the economy through material dialectics, Late Imperial Russia is a perfect example of this, nimrod. This isn't hard to understand. Capitalism didn't suddenly radically change a massive portion of the economy, it gradually developed and superceded feudalism, and retained some economic features.
>you would expect that it would just naturally and peacefully transition as the feudal system evolved
And it generally did, the only revolts arose in some places like France, England did not have this, nor did most other monarchies of Europe, that became capitalist in the decades after the Napoleonic Era.

>>27454
>suggesting that the heroes are supposed to be villain protagonists
I am not, neither are the bugs, if you missed the memo. Heinlein is presenting it from the human POV, but as a reader you (should) be interpreting this as a third party, as both sides are not society as we know it. The problem in the interpretation lies in the environment that Heinlein published this in - Cold War America - and the mass of anti-communist hysteria forever on the horizon, brainwashing burger kids. Thus many people interpreted that citation as Heinlein proclaiming this to be his political view. The reality is that Heinlein had 2 concepts of politics that he considered, on one hand a strong government is needed to manage economies and keep peace, but alternatively individual freedom had importance to him. You can see this in both his real life political statements and actions and in his literature. His supposed anti-communism, is literally meme related; as an American he'd been raised to believe the shticks of communist evil, at the same time support many ideals intrinsic to communism and/or the USSR.
>everything to suggest that Heinlein wanted to you sympathize with his characters and agree with the Federation's point of view.
Yes, because in that book he is presenting one idea, just as in "Moon" he presents an opposing and different idea… because people can be multifaceted. Today's obsessive conception of "liberal-conservative" binaries in regards to beliefs, society and politics are truly a poison to critical thinking.

>>27459
Heinlein was an active member of the Libertarian Party, there was nothing ambiguous about his anti-communism.

It's also incorrect to think that Libertarians like the concept of communism, but are somehow allergic to the word. Most Libertarians actually have a decent concept of what communism is, it's just that the apparent populist sentiments that they espouse that make people think that they'd be open towards the idea of communism is a faux populism. They might say that they think society ought to be run by the common people, but what you need to understand is that by "the common people" they mean "the petty bourgeoisie". There is nothing more distasteful to a lolbert than the idea of workers' power, a workers' state and an economy run by the workers. They aren't so dissimilar to the "populists" you may have seen in the Greek city-states, people who, if they claimed they wanted greater power and freedom for the "people", what they meant was the lesser slaveholders, not the slaves. That's essentially the viewpoint of the vast bulk of self-described "Libertarians."

>>28931
>Most Libertarians actually have a decent concept of what communism is
>by "the common people" they mean "the petty bourgeoisie". There is nothing more distasteful to a lolbert than the idea of workers' power, a workers' state and an economy run by the workers.
You're using the /pol/ and reddit conception of libertarians/classical liberals, yet if you have read Hayek or other non-ancapistan libertarians you'll see many, MANY aspects that reflect marxist ideology. Similarly Adam Smith's main points also match many marxist ideas.
>They aren't so dissimilar to the "populists" you may have seen in the Greek city-states, people who, if they claimed they wanted greater power and freedom for the "people", what they meant was the lesser slaveholders, not the slaves. That's essentially the viewpoint of the vast bulk of self-described "Libertarians."
In parentheses I'd say so, but my point is Heinlein did not adhere to these ideas. Otherwise his meritocratic, authoritarian Starship Troopers cannot be considered a pro-militarist novel, since it directly goes against common "libertarian" beliefs. Not to mention (again) The Moon is a Cruel Mistress's plot. Heinlein's concept of libertarianism is very much the old school "reject oppression" similar to the unaligned anarchist movements of the late 19th/early 20th centuries.

I'm by no means a libertarian, I've read Losurdo enough to reject idealistic concepts of "reject authority reeeee" but I also do not lose sight of the importance of balance, something that Stalin and Lenin also understood; control, but not constriction.

>>28940
No. It's not just /pol/ or Reddit. It is the vast bulk of them including their illustrious thinkers. Libertarianism can only be understood as a form of fascism developed in conditions with little pressure from "below", where the petty bourgeoisie sees the state as more constricting them than protecting them and is jealous of the cozier relationship the higher echelons of the bourgeoisie enjoy with the state.

>>28975
For one thing, as much as I loath Mises, it'd do you good to actually read the entire quote in context, as he further goes on to speak of fascism's failure.
>N-no
<proceeds to talk about the ideology an ignore my main point.
Anon, if you're just looking to grind your dick on your hatred of libertarians then go to /leftypol/ because this is just derailing the conversation.
> where the petty bourgeoisie sees the state as more constricting them than protecting them and is jealous of the cozier relationship the higher echelons of the bourgeoisie enjoy with the state.
And in stating this you're confirming my prior points on the French Revolution, but I digress.

>hayek citaiton
Source? Also, technically he isn't incorrect, though the beneficial aspects of his predictions are very arguable. Chile came under the control of Pinochet, the liberal dictator (fascist) and became a liberal government after he lost power.

>>28980
>>28975
PS, by ancapistan libertarians I very much refer to people such as Mises, Rothbard, Friedman and Rand.

>>28931
>Most Libertarians actually have a decent concept of what communism is
No, Mr Wolff, it's not when the gubbmint does things

>>29033
It's not when the government does things, and most Libertarians know this somewhere deep down. Many Libertarians are fully aware that communism is about workers' power and equality, but they see that as an affront to nature. The expansion of the state and the war, violence, corruption, etc, are just the tragic consequences of this attempt to overturn the "natural order of things".

It's extremely naive to think they don't see things this way. The vast bulk of "Libertarians" are right-wingers right down to the core and have far more in common with fascists than they do communists.

>>29064
>The vast bulk of "Libertarians" are right-wingers right down to the core and have far more in common with fascists than they do communists.
True, but I merely postulate that from my understanding of certain angles and certain individuals, I get the impression of
A) Objective portrayal despite ideology
and/or
B) Ideological coincidence.

back to the original topic, is there any modern scifi that isn't campy and takes the medium seriously and draws from contemporary and historical politics?

>>30821
Interstellar is a brilliant sci-fi that takes itself very seriously and focuses on accurately depicting space/space travel

>>30821
The Expanse is very popular and a lot about imperialism but it's nothing ground breaking.
I don't know if you can consider this "modern" but the Culture from Banks is really good and it's kind of that, in his words:
>I’d had enough of the right-wing US science fiction, so I decided to take it to the left.

>>30941
Interstellar as a film is terrible. Yes a lot of the science is correct in many aspects… but as a film it's mediocrely written. People were just in awe at the concepts and visuals at release.

>>30955
He was joking, traversable wormhole, stable star system featuring a black hole, a shuttle with seemingly infinite delta-v, travelling in the black hole, time travel, anti gravity… Very soft science fiction.

>>30941
lol
lmao
Jonathan Nolan is one of the worst screenwriters working today.

>>30956
It's sci-fi but its based on real concepts for all those things listed, and grounded in them in fact. Considering physicists had been major consultants that makes sense, so it's not very soft. BUT that doesn't make the plot and use of said science very good.

>>30957
Yeah this became a big meme in Russia.

>>30958
Interstellar is the definition of soft science fiction, there's very little internal consistency and most things make no sense, it's a father/daughter movie with pop science and space stuff.
The only thing scientific they did is the representation of the accretion disk of the black hole, not exactly a major feat since it was done in 1979.

Meanwhille AVERAGE SCI-FI FANTASY FAN

Why does so much sci-fi do this?

>>30821
I think most modern sci-fi has been hamstrung by the CIA.

That might sound like a schizo-post, but starting in the 50s the CIA got heavily involved in the arts, including writing and one of the major "creative writing" organizations was literally a CIA front. They set down most of what are now almost universally considered to be the rules of "good writing," such as write what you know, show don't tell, etc. The thrust of this movement was to promote character-driven personal stories as "good writing" while writing centered around ideas or concepts is bad writing.

This is why nowadays you'll often hear that the all the 20th century sci-fi greats were "bad writers." In fact, it might have been partially targeted at the sci-fi greats. The FBI recently released that they had suspected Asimov of being a pinko.

>>32219
It's less about actual CIA involvement and more about the limitations of capitalist realism impossed on Sci fi as a whole. For social change imagine by most creators is just "capitalism but with this weird quirk" or "capitalism but technology" or "feudalism and fascism in spess". For aliens it's always one small part of modern capitalism flanderized to the extreme. Because after the 60s when socialist vision of the future got snuffed out in the west people can only really think in those terms.

>>30953
The Expanse is one of the worst pop scifi out there. Even Star Trek is more realistic than that show and is more sci than Fi.

>>32221
I think you might be literally retarded anon.

Are there terms to differentiate science fiction where the science is part of the plot from science fiction where it is just the backdrop?

Fantasy is dumb because it's literally always medieval Europe. Basically just infinitely rehashing:
>LOTR
<DnD
Plagarismo di plagarismo.

>>32224
Fantasy predates LotR and that's like saying all sci-fi is either rehashing Star Trek or Star Wars.

>>32225
>Fantasy predates LotR
Oh really? You know what the fuck I'm talking about(or maybe you don't because you're too autistic.)
Let me help you, because you don't understand hyperbole

MOST fantasy today is just plagiarisms on plagiarisms of LOTR.

>that's like saying all sci-fi is either rehashing Star Trek or Star Wars.
Name me like one Sci Fi with laser swords and death stars.

>>32226
I don't know about laser swords or death stars, but I know of at least one sci-fi series about the adventures of definitely-not-Han-Solo carting around a person with space magic powers.

>>32226
>Name me like one Sci Fi with laser swords and death stars
Halo (energy swords and the halo arrays) and Mass Effect (omni blades and the catalyst/citadel)

>>32226
LotR is just a really long Robert E. Howard story but written by a guy with a degree in medieval Scandinavian linguistics

>>32226
Fantasy is the popcultural version of rehashed themes from old sagas and classical literature transformed in a digestible format. With regards to that, Tolkien was the first fantasy writer.

>>23276
> The vast majority of fantasy heroes are also either ruling class / royalty
liberals consume media about the bullshit political intrigue of Nancy Pelosi and then read about the bullshit political intrigue of characters in some fantasyland, but with extra racist colonial essentialism. Honestly fuck Game of Thrones and all that bullshit, I read to get away from ruling class political drama!
>>23279
>who the fuck cares?
Denny from The Room: (crying) "IT DOESN'T MATTER…it doesn't matter!!!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOJQPi9q8aE
>all reactionary thing-noticers
<reactionary thing-noticers
imagine calling other people "reactionary" when you deploy the most NPC meme imaginable: gaslighting people that what they see with their eyes isn't real and they should stop critique the precious consumer products of radlibs.
> all they had to go with is making fun of the middle class Dursleys
"you think you're so smart for noticing dictatorship of bourgeoisie leading to petite bourgeois moralism and child abuse, your Marxist historical materialism is actually idealist" Sorry child but your content is so trivially easy to critique that random liberals can do it. Please stop protecting your autism idols from "reactionary" workers lol
>who the fuck cares, literature and art isn't supposed to be beholden to your idealizations
(crying soy consumers) "IT DOESN'T MATTER, YOU'RE AN IDEALIST FOR THINKING I'M A DOMESTICATED RADLIB" Actually my artistic literature about a stacked dark elf is revolutionary praxis, fucking fascist.
>"le speshul grill" doing "le revolushun"
"fantasy isn't reactionary, but I have a knee jerk reaction to even the slightest hint of revolutionary working class movements" You proved OP's point better than I ever could. You scoff at women because you're a redditor class traitor who consumes fascist reactionary narratives.
>No shit, that's materially logical,
"It's logical to write stories about capitalists and not the working class, you're an idealist who doesn't understand Marxism" Ben Shapiro has found leftypol
>>23963
>Post-modernism is a a fucking blight.
modern art isn't POLITICAL, it's a total mystery why the CIA funded those magazines

>>32236
>gaslighting people that what they see with their eyes isn't real and they should stop critique the precious consumer products of radlibs
<N-noooo you can't enjoy something that isn't ideologically aligned with me!!!
The only gaslight here is yours.
You are reactionaries, liberal reactionaries pretending to be better than other libs.
>noticing dictatorship of bourgeoisie leading to petite bourgeois moralism and child abuse
The fuck is this supposed to mean? How is this at all relevant to the argument being made?
>Sorry child
The only people using this online in an anonymous forum are barely of age teens trying to sound smarter and older than they really are.
>Please stop protecting your autism idols from "reactionary" workers
How ass-backwards is your comprehension, to come to this completely opposite understanding of the post? The point is that Harry Potter is NOT reactionary, its vaguely liberal, because it comes from a liberal author in a liberal society, it reflects the material conditions the story is placed in. It also appeals to proletarians of said societies, since they can associate with it, and this reflects it being the largest media fandom in the Western hemisphere for 2 decades.
>(crying soy consumers)
<using memes in text-format
Touch grass you actual autist.
>IT DOESN'T MATTER, YOU'RE AN IDEALIST FOR THINKING I'M A DOMESTICATED RADLIB
Nah, you're an idealist for being a faggot getting mad at literature for not catering to your specific fake-communist LARP taste, because you seek to live it out in a fantasy.
>my artistic literature about a stacked dark elf
Nice projection there Baalbud
>I have a knee jerk reaction to even the slightest hint of revolutionary working class movements
<"I'm so desperate to be a contrarian that I'll back lazy liberal YA novel series, even as I seethe about HP being liberal"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The fucking IRONY
>You scoff at women
HAHAHAHAHA No. I scoff at poorly executed mary sue fics that promote ideologically nonsensical dystopia literature only appeals as "revolutionary" to the privileged teens of First World countries that think that oppression is their parents telling them not to do stupid shit for immature reasons. you are one of those teenagers, further proven by your tossing around of "marxist" like you actually read anything past the Kommunist Manifesto.
Read Капитан Сорви-голова, read Красные дьяволята or Сказка о Военной тайне, о Мальчише-Кибальчише и его твёрдом слове
Those are REAL revolutionary literary works. Some of my favorite books and films are about a female main character, because they actually are well written books, not hackjob dime-a-dozen YA crap.
>ou're a redditor class traitor who consumes fascist reactionary narratives
Nah, I'm just not a hypocritical, virtue-signaling ideologue like you.
>It's logical to write stories about capitalists and not the working class
You don't even understand the meaning of capitalist or proletariat or even basic base-structure relations, a cornerstone of Marxism… You are as ignorant as Ben Shapiro, stop projecting. Also learn grammar, you phone-posting moron.
You outright ignore the material reasoning that, in fact, yes, in a feudal setting the upper class is the ones that are going to get the best education and likely the best arms, training and resources, something that reflects actual class-based societies. That's materially logical and consistent. For fucks sake read The Prince and the Pauper, you ignoramus. Hell a lot of fantasy setting literature involves a country-nobody facing such a harsh setting head on and fighting adversity.

TL;DR: Go back to nitter you confused, projecting liberal.

>>32227
>definitely-not-Han-Solo
Han Solo is a roguish captain, a trope so old that it goes back centuries. Mal Reynolds is not a Han Solo.
>carting around a person with space magic powers
Telepathy, is theoretically possible. It's barely even comparable to the force.

>>32236
>liberals consume media about the bullshit political intrigue of Nancy Pelosi and then read about the bullshit political intrigue of characters in some fantasyland, but with extra racist colonial essentialism. Honestly fuck Game of Thrones and all that bullshit, I read to get away from ruling class political drama!
Take your potions sweetie!

>>32469
>telepathy is theoretically possible
Excuse me?

>>32527
It's not like straight up movie shit, but a similar potential is there. Some of the studies and such go back to the early 20th century. Most of it runs on the transmission of electromagnetic fields, through bio-electricity of the body and neurons (in very basic layman terms).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0105225
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7937662/

>>24582
>>24583
Actually one of the better forms of "black magic" is in the Mistborn series.

The two normal forms of magic, allomancy and feruchemy, both require you to be born with the ability to use them and require something out of the user, like ingesting metal or storing up your own physical attributes, and more often than not there are strong limitations on what a person can do with these forms of magic even when they're born with the ability to use them.

Then there's the black magic of the setting, hemalurgy. With hemalurgy, you can have all the powers of allomancy and feruchemy and using both at once will allow both to reach heights just one or the other could never achieve. Not only that, but anyone can potentially become a hemalurgist, you don't need to be born with it. However, hemalurgy involves driving a spike through the heart of an allomancer or feruchemist to essentially pin their soul to it, and then directly into yourself. The hemalurgic spike will then be implanted in you forever. It won't kill you (in fact, it will give you a sort of seeming immortality so long as your hemalurgic spikes aren't removed), but they will constantly ache. Oh, also it creates a wound in your soul that allows the voice of an evil god to constantly whisper in your ear and manipulate your emotions. And that IF said evil god remains trapped in his prison. If that evil god were to ever escape and you were unwise enough to have put more than one hemalurgic spike in yourself, you become that evil god's meat puppet for the rest of your potentially eternal existence.

>>32536
That's not telepathy, they were linked by machines.

I liked Blindsight a lot. The author gets some things wrong about human evolution, but it still is one of the best first contact stories out there.

SF and fantasy are both fine, you're all just being a bunch of larpers yelling at people for enjoying shit you don't, shut up and stop being a tryhard

t. guy who enjoys both popcorn slop and arthouse

you know when you are a kid reading about the byzantine empire on the encarta and you get to the iconoclasts, and then you find that some religions in the past had opposed many forms of art, and you tell yourself; that's dumb, why would they do this? what's the problem with arts?

I think I'm beginning to understand

>>23219
Star Wars is fantasy scifi.