No.38860
I want to tell other socialists, especially younger ones that spreading conspiracies is a diversion from socialist praxis. It is unnecessary, but what's more it is counterproductive and enabling to reactionaries, who of course love to appropriate our conspiracies and simply plant their old scarecrow the Jew at the center of it all.
Why are conspiracy theories unnecessary to our praxis? Because even if none of them were true, even if we lived in the exact world that the bourgeois say we live in, it would still be a world of exploitation, because the latter is fundamental to the capitalist mode of production and inextricable from it, no matter how one attempts to clean up and reform it.
This was the great discovery of Marx almost 150 years ago in his magnum opus, Capital. Remember why you are doing this, remember that you are on the side of reason, of science, of the fight for the liberation of mankind.
No.38861
why did you post a picture of Gary Webb when he was literally suicide'd by the CIA (literally "committed suicide by shooting himself twice in the back of the head" type shit) for exposing the Reagan administration trafficking cocaine into black communities in LA
No.38862
>>38861To attract people like you lol. Did you even read my post?
No.38863
Pursuit of truth is non-negotiable.
No.38864
glowuyghur thread
No.38865
>>38862What's your point even? Yeah if no conspiracy theories were true then Marxism would still be correct, but plenty of them are true, and conspiracies are cooked up by porkies and glowies to pursue their interests in specific situations. Why should we not want to expose such things?
No.38866
>>38862I did and it's retarded to make a false equivalency between "conspiracy theories" like the CIA-Contra affair or MKULTRA (the latter of which is a historical fact but was once a conspiracy theory) and loony right-wing shit like ZOG reptilians controlling the government. the fact that the US government has at multiple points in its history experimented on its own citizens or engaged in soft genocides against them in the case of the crack epidemic isn't trivial, it deepens our understanding of how fascist states function and evolve because the US has always, despite the narratives it creates about its own history, never stopped being an illegitimate genocidal state. it merely adapted to being able to better conceal its tactics and it's valuable to understand that these so-called "conspiracy theories" are suppressed because they expose that the US government engages in naked aggression against its own citizens in the same way that fascist states are classically thought of as doing. the US just has the benefit of modern intelligence practices to conceal this and also hasn't yet collapsed, so there hasn't yet been a moment of it being revealed to the world what the US does in the same way that it was exposed to the world what the Nazis were doing in the concentration camps.
No.38867
The glowie is scared something is happening right now.
No.38868
>OP says "hey guys don't be an irrational schizo, use your head"
<replies go "ok but what if I didn't because of past times the bourgeoisie were punks"
I think I'm done here
No.38869
What really sucks is that all we're left with today is variations of Pizzagate-tier shit instead of talking about the many inside jobs American feds did on their own population in the past decades leading up to 2001.
No.38871
>>38870Schizos are wreckers. You will never get successful praxis from jerking off to vibes
No.38872
>>38869pizzagate-shit is just more exciting to small brains.
No.38873
>>38868That isn't what OP said, they said "don't spread conspiracy theories," apparently without any concern for whether or not they are true (and they often are). If they said to not get carried away, base your views in evidence or at least rational speculation, etc that would be different.
No.38875
>>38873I meant that. Don't do it. It's a waste of time. Many people know about all the conspiracy theories and the information is right out in the open. Does that do anything to mobilize the working class? No, only organization.
No.38876
>>38875>Does that do anything to mobilize the working class? I would say that educating people about the way the ruling class has and continues to literally conspire against them is an important part of mobilizing people.
No.38877
>>38860I believe there's a lot of Sinister Glowie Shit and it's enough to make anyone paranoid, but I do think a focus on it is a form of escapism from taking responsibility for the world, because everyone are just heckin smol bean dupes to the cabal. People in government are responding to the demands placed on them by the logic of capitalism. A Lacanian thing:
>Ok so capitalism depends on the working of what Adam Smith called the "invisible hand." I'm sure you know about all that but if you don't… The basic idea is that no one human authority figure - king, queen, president, prime minister - is actually in charge of society. That's because what really decides everything is not human & doesn't, actually exist: the forces of the market, working invisibly, sort everything out.
>Lacan reckons that what we all want is a fullness of being that entirely fills up our basic lack. Libidinally, that takes the form of the mother/ object of desire. The social/ political equivalent of this is The Authority Who Knows Everything. I think he's saying that capitalism works by stimulating that libidinal desire. We think that a phone/babe/TV/yacht will fill the lack. But of course it never does, so everyone in capitalism is dissatisfied all the time.
>In many people this produces paranoia: I'm aware that I lack what I should have, and this seems like a pattern. (Because it is.) It's almost as if there's some hidden power that's keeping all the Good Stuff for itself, and making sure I don't get any. Who or what is responsible for taking this fullness of being from me?
>Partly, I think it's the powers that be. But I kindve know that they're not the REAL authority. Which is correct - see above. (Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you etc.) So I feel - again correctly, as above - that the REAL authority is elsewhere. (Because, for Lacan, it's a deep rooted conviction that there must be an absolute authority for everything somewhere, the must be The Answer, there must be someone who has the gift of plenitude, of satiety, of perfect fulfilment.)
>And - to repeat - it's clear that Macron, or Queen Elizabeth, is not offering that.
>So what the paranoid citizen in a paranoid-inducing capitalist society is looking for is an authority figure who KNOWS who's stealing, hoarding all the good stuff & denying it to me. But this authority figure has to come from outside the system, because the system is obviously corrupt and unfair - why else does it never give me, or anyone I know, what I want & deserve?
>Right wing populists now appear: Orban, Trump, Johnson, Modi, Bolsonaro. They are all outsiders, and they KNOW who is to blame. They know who your enemy - the enemy of the people - is. They know where the real Authority is. But they're not Jesus themselves- far from it. And the fact that they're far from holy themselves is the proof of that. They are not that light, but they know where and who the light - or, in this case, the robbers of the light - are. They say stuff like "draining the swamp" or "taking back control" and the paranoid person feels a huge surge of conviction and certainty. They KNEW all along they were right about these secret powers, and here's this guy saying "yes, yes, you absolutely were." (And the paranoid is right. There really is an invisible force denying them and making them unhappy. And it isn't possible to pin this on any one human being, because the force that's making them unhappy is the ahuman forces of the market. And a market which exists to satisfy desires which are by definition unsatisfyable. So capitalism is organised to give your search for meaning and happiness a double whammy. All the time.)
>The populist right winger/ fascist wages war against the forces that are keeping you from your greatness, but there's a slight catch. The forces can never be defeated. The war can never be won. Because what sustains the Trumps of this world is the existence of a light-and-life denying group that they are fighting. No.38878
>you are on the side of reason, of science, of the fight for the liberation of mankind.
euphoric /r/atheism thread which ironically has a similar ideology as Richard Dawkins, a Jeffrey Epstein guy
No.38879
>>38878Lmfaoooo the idealists are maaad
No.38880
Conspiracies exist, it's just that right wing "conspiracy theories" are dumb fanfics with overwhelming antisemitic and anticommunist sentiments. You want actual conspiracies? Look at G20, G7, World Economic Forum, Trilateral Commission, Group of 30, Atlantic Council, Bilderberg Group, World Bank, International Monetary Fund, Bank for International Settlements, Council on Foreign Relations, and the CIA, US State Department, and so on. The rich conspire against the working class ALL THE TIME.
No.38883
>>38869Same shit, look up Finders cult, CIA internal matter because the US government is responsible for almost all sex trafficking directly or indirectly.
No.38884
>>38863this.
>>38874best post explaining it.
the term itself was introduced as a psy op to divide and discredit.
No.38886
>>38860You can be arrested, tried in a court of law and imprisoned for a variety of conspiracies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_conspiracy No.38887
fat glowy hands made this thread
No.38889
>>38877Awesome reply, the only good one in this thread. Thank you.
To everyone else, the amount of wilful misinterpretation of what I said is honestly fucking disappointing and a demonstration to me that there is a lot more reactionary retardation on this board than I thought.
No.38890
>>38889>a demonstration to me that there is a lot more reactionary retardation on this board than I thought.Are you saying there's some sort of conspiracy going on?
No.38892
>>38891Come to think of it, do you guys ever heard of communists/socialists in 20th century ever having to defend purges/famines/losses in the war/etc myths?
They didn't, because nobody believed this nonsense, and neither should you. And guess fucking what, it's much easier to talk about communism when you don't have to bow to anti-communist lies and slander
No.38893
My thread appears to have triggered a LOT of reactionaries that use this board, resulting in them spamming incoherent replies to it.
Obviously to any intelligent people reading, you already know that a lot of left conspiracies are true. In fact, most of them are public record. Even if they are true, it is pathological to engage in conspiracism, and the development of this thread serves as its own example of that. Pathological how? Not because it is "dangerous" — again, most conspiracies from the left are true and simply omitted from bourgeois history books, the same way one might avoid speaking of family drama at the dinner table. This is why they were called "The Family Jewels." It is pathological because it has demonstrated itself to be a waste of time, and only a diversion from program and organization, the true lifeblood of proletarian revolution.
No.38894
>>38893all your posts in your own thread are just you jerking yourself off, cool
No.38895
>>38893>you already know that a lot of left conspiracies are true. In fact, most of them are public record. Even if they are true, it is pathological to engage in conspiracism
>It is pathological because it has demonstrated itself to be a waste of time, and only a diversion from program and organization, the true lifeblood of proletarian revolutionGo on, organize around people who will claim that you are a homophobe because Castro did something, and another person in the group bemoaning holodomor victims, and another one cutting his dick off because Red Army raped gazillion German women, even elderly
No.38896
>>38860except bourgeois governments and their intelligence agencies have actually done conspiracies in the path and they call people speculating on their actions "conspiracy theories" to discredit them
No.38899
>>38898Why is this picture scary to me?
No.38900
>>38897ok and? Just believing in them without clear evidence still isn't rational.
No.38903
>>38902>imperialism is a conspiracyngmi
No.38904
>>38893>it's pathological to expose the things porky does to workersok faggot
No.38907
>>1701835
What is this stupidity, you think hollywood didn't hypersexualize their movies before the 2020's? What was Playboy then? Who put up all these beer ads with nearly naked women on them? Hypersexuality didn't happen because of malicious actors promoting them, it happened because marketing graduates discovered that sex sells
No.38908
>>1701835
>nuclear families
capitalist spook and also part of what destroyed the communities you pretend to care about
No.38909
>>38860What do you mean by "conspiracy theory" exactly?
I ask because both "society is secretly controlled by shapeshifting reptile humanoids from outer space" and "I don't think the government is telling the whole truth about the war" are both labeled "conspiracy theories."
No.38910
>>38860Please go back and take your bots with you
No.38911
>>38907Idk what the deleted post said but I hope they don't believe "hypersexualization" is still a thing lol.
No.38912
>>38903Well, I mean, yes. Liberals will accuse you of spouting "conspiracy theories" if you talk about imperialism because the official line of the Western powers is that imperialism doesn't exist anymore except for when their enemies do some kind of bad, unauthorized geopolitics. Anything that falls outside of this official line is called a "conspiracy theory" by liberals.
That's why its important to define what you mean when you're talking about so-called "conspiracy theories." Avoiding literally anything that might get you called a "conspiracy theorist" by liberals would mean not acknowledging the existence of Western imperialism and not suggesting that the CIA does anything ever.
No.38913
>>38908>sex sellsand so does alphabetism
>>38907>nuclear families are capitalistImagine leftypol's retardation, conflating a literal FUCKING economic system with a societal concept. This is why I became disillusioned
No.38914
>>38908>part of what destroyed the communities you pretend to care about<nuclear families destroh communities they care the most about!!!No, retard. It's leftist egoism and identitarianism tthat did. At least Qtards have functioning social skills wtf
No.38915
>>38911>I hope they don't believe "hypersexualization" is still a thing lol.Why do you think it isn't? Genuinely curious.
No.38916
>>38915They're alphabet tanks in denial
No.38917
>>38915theres moral panics all the time now and films with actual sex still get bizarre reactions from critics and audiences alike? one of the biggest criticisms of marvel movies is that theres all these muscular men and busty women in spandex but it still feels incredibly sanitized
>>38916wat
No.38918
>>38916If you want to own le alphabet tanks have you considered not being a puritan over sexuality? If people stop making a big deal out of it then "hypersexualization" loses its purpose.
No.38921
>>38920what are the dangers of a woman shaking her ass
No.38922
>>38913>"economic system">"societal concept"<thinking you can separate these thingsmarx, read it
No.38924
>>38920What's the literature on "hypersexualization"? When does sexualization turn into "hypersexualization" or are they separate concepts? All I find when searching for the term is radfems thinking anime is turning people trans or conservatives saying the liberation of women is leading us down a slippery slope that's going to turn everyone into pedophiles. Also pop psych articles about people who have too much sex.
Maybe "sex sells" because everyone has been so repressed in the past century.
No.38925
>>38921>what are the dangers?This hypersexualization is nothing but a vehicle to commodify women, often young, as almost exclusively sexual objects?
>>38924It comes out of Baudrillard, 'hyper' like 'hyperreal', a product of postmodern society and also used by the intersectionalists (black feminists of the previous generation) to make the point that it also erases and stigmatizes marginalized groups (in the context of the USA) of people who do not adhere to such things.
No.38926
>>38925What makes the commodification of sex so different from literally all the other commodification going on under capitalism?
No.38927
>wage labor
<i sleep
>wage labor, sexual
<HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No.38928
>>38926I didn't say the commodification of sex you retard i said the commodification of women as sexual objects.
Honestly learn to read.
No.38929
>>38928>the commodification of women as sexual objectsSo… sex work? What makes sex work different from all other forms of work?
No.38930
>>38929Lol…. You might be legitimately retarded anon. There is no saving you with all the books and university access accounts in the world.
No.38931
>>38930You didn't mention a single book. Baudrillard never talked about "hypersexualization".
No.38932
>>38920>>38925the fact attractive women can acquire social and financial capital through sex work in a way thats not generally open to men (or open at much worse rates) is fairly textbook *female* privilege. that feminists attempt to turn it around shows just how identitarian feminism is now
>>38930>>38928to be anything other than a neet shut-in requires reducing yourself into a marketing object, selling yourself as meat and you cant explain why its exceptional when it comes to sex – there isnt even actual sex in your example – because to do so youd reveal yourself as the closeted christian you are
No.38933
>>38931Is you're complaint unironically that he does not use the exact word despite this being what his works are precisely about? You cannot possibly be serious..
..I said it comes from Baudrillard, hyper like hyperreal anon… if you do not understand that there is a body of work that comes out of Baudrillard that Baudrillard did not himself write i dont know what to tell you sincerely.
No.38934
All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htmIt develops out of the pairing family, as previously shown, in the transitional period between the upper and middle stages of barbarism; its decisive victory is one of the signs that civilization is beginning. It is based on the supremacy of the man, the express purpose being to produce children of undisputed paternity; such paternity is demanded because these children are later to come into their father’s property as his natural heirs. It is distinguished from pairing marriage by the much greater strength of the marriage tie, which can no longer be dissolved at either partner’s wish. As a rule, it is now only the man who can dissolve it, and put away his wife. The right of conjugal infidelity also remains secured to him, at any rate by custom (the Code Napoléon explicitly accords it to the husband as long as he does not bring his concubine into the house), and as social life develops he exercises his right more and more; should the wife recall the old form of sexual life and attempt to revive it, she is punished more severely than ever.
The legitimate wife was expected to put up with all this, but herself to remain strictly chaste and faithful. In the heroic age a Greek woman is, indeed, more respected than in the period of civilization, but to her husband she is after all nothing but the mother of his legitimate children and heirs, his chief housekeeper and the supervisor of his female slaves, whom he can and does take as concubines if he so fancies. It is the existence of slavery side by side with monogamy, the presence of young, beautiful slaves belonging unreservedly to the man, that stamps monogamy from the very beginning with its specific character of monogamy for the woman only, but not for the man. And that is the character it still has today.
This is the origin of monogamy as far as we can trace it back among the most civilized and highly developed people of antiquity. It was not in any way the fruit of individual sex-love, with which it had nothing whatever to do; marriages remained as before marriages of convenience. It was the first form of the family to be based, not on natural, but on economic conditions – on the victory of private property over primitive, natural communal property.
Thus when monogamous marriage first makes its appearance in history, it is not as the reconciliation of man and woman, still less as the highest form of such a reconciliation. Quite the contrary. Monogamous marriage comes on the scene as the subjugation of the one sex by the other; it announces a struggle between the sexes unknown throughout the whole previous prehistoric period.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/ch02d.htm No.38935
>>38934>All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind.top 10 phrases that go hard of all time
No.38938
>>38914anthropologically false
keep coping burger
No.38939
While I haven't much cared to learn what indeed happened with the US 2020 elections, I believe that Trump lost and there was no shenanigans beyond the classic American ones. But I still like to shitpost on how the democrats stole the election and banana republic and shit in the belief that this issue is dividing the great satan even more.
Rate.
No.38941
>>1702417
>t-tankie!
read marx
No.38942
>>1702406
Why the fuck does one care if reps or dems win? It's same shit especially if you don't even live in burgeristan.
No.38943
>>38913>conflating a literal FUCKING economic system with a societal concept.A societal concept that definitely just spawned out of the fucking ether and definitely was in no way, shape or form influenced by the economic conditions of the society in which it formed. If anyone here is the retard it's you, I'd suggest typing "Marx base superstructure model" into the search engine of your choice. Also, [spoiler]have sex[/spoiler].
No.38945
>>38860I missed this when it happened earlier this year, but it's an example of where I think left-wing conspiracism goes bad. Randi Nord, a reporter MintPress News and at least a former member of the Workers World Party, was arrested for vandalizing a synagogue in Detroit with a swastika and the word "Azov" (and had also harassed a Jewish family with a baby) because she – after apparently confessing to the police – wanted to a commit a bunch of hate crimes to blame on Ukraine.
I mention it because MintPress is a bit more on the conspiracist side (and because it is also fairly close with Iran which encourages it) with articles about 9/11 truth and so forth. But people who fixate on conspiracies can end up coming up with false flag plots themselves.
No.38946
>>38860fuck this, OP
1. conspiracy theory mindset is a form of proletarian consciousness in resistance to the dominant narratives, it might be counterproductive but the heart is in the right place when people always assume the worst of the capitalists and imperialists and their dogs in government
2. the actual horror of capitalism is the violence, the corruption, the war – and the way the ruling class enforces bourgeois rule is ultimately through subversion, slander, assassination, breaking their own rules, and so on. Conspiracies make up the whole of the appearance of our oppression. Marxism lets us see behind the appearance, to the class dynamics, and not get stuck on individual persons, crimes, and agendas. U can't deny the actual manifestation of the horror of capitalism in the attempt to overcome it. Knowing the mechanics (like e.g. economic exploitation, competition, falling profit rate) going on behind the scenes only lets us say definitively that the conspiracies will keep happening no matter who is in charge, so long as they are in charge for the same reasons (being rich or pandering to the rich), and gives us some solid guideposts to hold to in extricating ourselves from this system.
(and if we lived in the world the bourgeoisie say/think we live in… honestly it would not be that bad, but more importantly we just dont live in that world, because that world is not possible… the reason why is the class conflict! Which gives rise to the myriad conspiracies of the ruling class. Not understanding marxism is thinking that we could live in a society of exploitation without the particulars of maintaining and enacting that exploitation, and its irrational externalities.)
No.38947
>>38913You have been scammed into buying a poorly built house in a suburb because some marketer 100 years ago accidentally left their poorly veiled kink mixed in with their legit propositions.
No.38948
>>38906but every so often we do get proof of bourgies, along with intelligence agencies, cult leaders/religious personalities, politicians, and so on conspiring. So there's no reason to a priori assume the default is that no direct conspiring takes place. We know it takes place, we know there are sub-conspiracy levels of interaction between rich and influential people ("networking", lobbying, conventions, etc.) also regularly take place and those are out in the open. We know that criminals try to keep their crimes from being public. All this together, we could assume that conspiracies are relatively common and we just don't know about it every single time.
Also depending on what you consider conspiracy… essentially all businesses (all large ones at least) engage in it if you consider intentionally trying to counter unions a conspiracy. It requires bourgeois praxis being shared between them, it requires some level of clandestinity or obfuscation of what they are doing, to the employees, its often illegal or in a gray area, and it's directly in the service of maintaining bourgeois rule and profits. Same with all policing of activists… isn't this directly conspiracy to maintain the bourgeoisie as the ruling class? Even if the pigs don't realize this purpose explicitly. But it has all the elements of a conspiracy.
No.38950
>>38949Y o it’s even worse now. These reports of FBI entrapment wouldn’t surface nearly as prevalently as they did back then (which they were not broadcast widespread back then). The media was owned by a mixture of different corporations, millionaire families, and petit bourgeois during the GWB era. You also had a lot of popular independent websites operated by entrepreneurs during that time which was before the internet was heavily commoditized and monopolized. We live in an era where about 5 mega-corporations and investor firms own 97% of all legacy and new media outlets. If the FBI did the same thing today then it might make it into a Trotskyist rag website if you were lucky, but you couldn’t expect The Atlantic to report on it unless it served the interests of the bourgeoisie. This late-stage capitalism just gets more decrepit by the day.
No.38951
Bumping this thread, it's relevant again
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