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File: 1608525827605.jpg (23.31 KB, 259x384, Snowpiercer_poster.jpg)

 No.4441[View All]

Holy shit, I've rarely seen a movie as on the nose and blunt in its critique of capitalist society, and yet Americans seemingly cannot comprehend what it's a criticism of. I've seen "It's about authoritarianism" "It's about the death of free market competition" "It's secretly about socialism!"
Holy fuck, how can it be possible to be as retarded as burgers? It's like unless a film blatantly jumps up and down shouting "CAPITALISM BAD" they literally can't parse out any form of symbolism or allegory at all. Why are these people such idiotic apes?
The writer/director was literally part of the South Korean Socialist Party, tf is the dysfunction in burger brains?
51 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.5679

>>5020
>the bar for it can't be this low
When you don't know better, even shit looks good… which is ironic considering that representation in 80s and 90s films was actually more unique and diverse without it being unnecessarily partisan.
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 No.5722

>>4548
The things is… it's not. This is what I dislike about the film: the 'proles' at the butt of the train are not proles, they don't produce anything! We never see them working for the bottom sections, all they do is receive things and be punished. There's even a scene where they are shocked when they discover how the food they've been eating for years is made.

I never understood why the last section of the train even exists. They are the source of slave children, and that's all. But the train has a whole indoctrination system thanks to which the middle sections of the train would be glad to offer their children voluntarily to Wilford.
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 No.5723

>>5722
tail section exists to present a common enemy for the upper classes to unite against so theres no internal conflict
tail section passengers are also easy to purge making population control easy and ofcourse provide slave children without sacrificing any of their own
best justifications i could think of
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 No.5725

>>4447
>Just change the social relations of child labor, maaaaaan. Just call it the people's lithium mine, bro.
I mean, yeah. You probably still have to mine rare earth minerals in socialism, you baby ultra. Child labor doesn't have to be inherently bad either, Marx was for it under socialism.

If we take the train as a allegory of capitalism, then destroying it is indeed the Swing Riots solution, the primitivist solution, the Khmer Rouge solution.
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 No.5726

>>4448
Okay, you arrive at this conclusion by taking the train as a reified social relation itself, with no material attributes.
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 No.5727

>>4450
>the state exists in a vacuum
Fucking hell we've put this nonsense to rest over a hundred years ago
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 No.5736

There's a new Snowpiercer TV series that's about 6 episodes so far, anyone seen it?
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 No.5737

File: 1608525969752.jpg (655.08 KB, 1580x1538, 1421975511783.jpg)

>>5736
>gotta make a series out of everything
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 No.5739

>>5737
Snowpiercer is one of those things that can only work as a feature film. The premise is obviously so ridiculous and allegorical that any attempt to stretch this out to a drama show that wants to be taken seriously is bullshit.

I can suspend my disbelief of a train encircling an ice planet for a movie when I see that it's a social critique. I can't not do that for 20 fucking hours of television including personal drama or whatever.

Also, 100% they throw the anti-capitalist notions out the window.
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 No.6326

>>5737
Capitalism, milking everything dry and dead.
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 No.6384

How would you rate this film? I give it an 8/10, with some points lost because of some inconsistent themes.
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 No.7940

File: 1608526220021.jpg (28.28 KB, 690x414, el-hoyo.jpg)

Honestly just watch El Hoyo/The Platform on Netflix.
It does everything Snow Piercer tried to but 10 times better
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 No.7941

File: 1608526220271.jpeg (120.81 KB, 768x574, snowpiercer.jpeg)

>>5736
Yeah, I've seen the whole thing actually. There's talk of rebellion and uprising, but ultimately it's just a liberal idea of it, where the working class and middle-class side with the tail against the upper class and after a little bit of fighting, all of the upper class's "army" is conveniently removed from the train, thus ensuring a relatively peaceful transfer of power, where nothing really changes except now there's talk of "democracy" and elections. However, in the first episode after the successful takeover, they already make it a point that these lower classes taking over doesn't change many things as these lower ones just occupied the same positions of power in the train. As someone has wrote in this thread, taking over the train and not abandoning it, just means changing the people in the necessary roles for the train. There is no brutal child labour on the train however, and there are hard jobs, but nothing like the child in the engine in the movie.

Other than a few stupid things, I've enjoyed the movie as an interesting show. I have abandoned any hope of a socialist message in the first episode. The first season is over, and in the last episode they tease what that second season is going to be about: Wilfred, presumed dead, is actually on a different train that is a supply train that can catch other trains and grab them in its jaws, then connect into them and hack the train, taking it over. Needless to say, I won't be watching the second season.
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 No.7945

>>7940
Snow Piercer at the end of the day is fun Hollywood revenge porn. El Hoyo is just bleakness, depression and Kafka on ultra steroids just like real life
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 No.7947

>>13853
Sniff my booty fag
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 No.7950

>>7940
FFS then every movie where post-apocalyptic people survive in the ice and snow is "good" by that metric.
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 No.8052

>>7950
>post-apocalyptic people survive in the ice and snow
Name 5 movies
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 No.8056

>>8052
I've seen several and only Snowpiercer is the one I bothered to remember
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 No.8324

>>7941
> thus ensuring a relatively peaceful transfer of power, where nothing really changes except now there's talk of "democracy" and elections.
A literal social democracy. Of fucking course
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 No.8325

>>7940
It is 10 times worse for the sheer heavy handed metaphor. I still don't what the fuck does sending the kid up have to do with anything.
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 No.8327

>>4443
There is a theory that the train was breaking not the first law of thermodynamics but the second, which means that it syphons energy from the surrounding areas which means that it is itself the cause for the apocalypse due to how inefficient it is. So destroying it is a necessary step to recovery.
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 No.8653

>>8325
hope that things will change I guess.
However it's kinda obvious the protag went crazy and everything that happens in the last 10 mins is his imagination.
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 No.8694

>>8653
>However it's kinda obvious the protag went crazy and everything that happens in the last 10 mins is his imagination.
Oh yea sure, whatever helps make the movie seems better I guess.
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 No.8696

>>8694
It's what the director said nigga
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 No.8715

File: 1608526354915.png (22.5 KB, 207x239, facts.png)

>>8696
source?
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 No.8719

Watched The Platform yesterday and let it sit for a bit. So, here are my takes on it.
First, on the ending. The way I interpret it is that either a) He went into delusions after being wounded in the last fight, ate the cake or ruined it some other way, died, but the visions allowed him to cope and go out peacefully, happy that he achieved his goal, or b) He died basically just after the fight, cake survived and he, in his dying visions reinterpreted the situation into a dreamy fantasy where the girl was real.
Alright, with that out of the way, my hot take analysis on the film. I actually don't think the film is that much anti-capitalist. It can definitely be read as it, but it doesn't really fit on a closer analysis. If anything, for me at first sight it seemed anti-communist with the good ol' "muh human nature" vs the ebil utopian socialist administration that want to do creepypasta social experiment to create the new socialist man. However, this analysis also doesn't really stand on further inspection, first due to the fact that some anti-capitalist commentary does indeed exist, but also due to the fact that what I think the movie is trying to tell is way smarter.
So, what do I believe the movie is about then? Well, I think it is a much needed analysis of how material conditions influence humans. The Hole is a fucking concentration camp. One that styles it self to be egalitarian, as everyone will get to experience the lower levels through random chance, but still a concentration camp. The fact is, no matter how much you would want to change a human, they will not accept it if their very survival is threatened. No solidarity can exist in such a place, no chance for some sort of "instant transformation" of how people act. They are driven to desperation and they will fight for their own lives. Not to mention the fact that the place is mismanaged as all hell, with too little food being provided for all the 300+ cells, as well as an inability to even count them all. The best you can do is have "solidarity covered in shit", as the movie says.
Goering chooses Don Quixote as his one item to keep in the Hole as quite a heavy handed symbolism, especially when he eats the book in 202, him self, symbolically, becoming Don Quixote, and the very next month embarking on his final, doomed mission. It is only the wise guru who proposes an alternative: to deliver the cake to the administration, hopefully thus satisfying their insane wishes and finally making them change the material conditions of the entire Hole.
The "leftist" readings of the film have been all the same Zizekian soyfacing over revolutionary suicide to create muh next generation that will bring the change, the way that Snowpiercer, Children of Men and to some extent Vendetta is. However, I argue that it is the exact opposite, a rejection of this take, showing that no, this individual suicide is nothing but a Don-Quixotian self delusion. In the end, it is not clear if the plan succeeded, as the visions before death make it all pretty blurry, but one thing stands true - in the end, if any change happens, it is not because Goering managed to "break the system" by killing some prisoners and feeding the bottom levels for one day, but because the administration might have been forced to change their mind about the entire situation, thus changing its conditions.
As far as the anti-capitalist motives, they are there, but can't be held as a centerpiece imo. The class system is far different than the ones in real life. People are motivated by their own survival, not by need. I fully agree with the first cellmate who says that it is not he who is cannibalizing Goering, but the administration. He is correct. His actions are just rational response to the conditions given, not some sort of personal "greedy" flaw. Also, if it was supposed to be like capitalism, then there is no way that the top floor people wouldn't just stay in their place while shuffling over only the bottom ones. However the one parallel to capitalism that I found really strong was the fear that one must experience knowing that their life could always get destroyed by simple freak accidents, with no one there to help you. The scene where they first wake up in the really low floor, hear the wailing of those who were transported there as well and finally commit suicide felt a lot like hearing the horror stories of American healthcare where people would kill themselves to not leave any loans for their family after getting sick.
In the end, I liked the film, however, it very much reminded me of a certain book called Forrest of the Gods, a memoir of an ex-concentration camp inmate, that basically shows the same situation and leads to quite similar conclusions once you think about it. And this book managed to do it all while also managing to be morbidly funny and enjoyable, while this film was quite hard to watch. However that is no fault of the directors, and it still stays an amazing film for me.
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 No.8727

>>8715
>“Para mí, el último nivel no existe. Goreng muere antes de llegar, y lo que vemos es su interpretación de lo que habría hecho”, según el cineasta bilbaíno en la entrevista de The Digital Spy. “Quería que el final estuviera abierto a interpretaciones, como si el plan realmente funciona o si la gente de arriba siquiera se preocupa por los del hoyo”.
if you're too lazy to google translate basically the director thinks the protag went crazy but he wants you to you make your own interpretation
I also found the director was libpilled as fuck
>realmente, creemos que puede haber una mejor distribución de la riqueza, pero la cinta no trata estrictamente del capitalismo", dijo, agregando que "Puede haber una crítica al capitalismo desde el inicio, pero mostramos que tan pronto Goreng y Baharat prueban el socialismo, intentando convencer a los otros prisioneros de compartir voluntariamente su comida, acaban matando a la mitad de esas personas, a las que se supone que deben ayudar
He thinks that socialism is always violent andbad because when the protag tried to equally distribute the food, he ended killing up people,
>>8719
Very good effort post, comrade
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 No.9576

File: 1608526472185-0.jpg (167.49 KB, 1800x1012, The Cube.jpg)

File: 1608526472185-1.jpg (442.93 KB, 1080x1600, The Platform.jpg)

2 films similar to Snow Piercer (in terms of the whole class heirarchy theme) are The Cube and the recent Spanish film called The Platform.

Pyrocynical ironically did 2 very good reviews on both films (even if it's somewhat meme heavy).
The Cube (& Hypercube) review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FjmELC_6mU
A good part of The Hypercube that Pyro misses is one detail: "When Simon shows up older after getting his eye stabbed, Pyro asked how he survived this long. Check out all those watches on his arm again. He's been killing and cannibalizing duplicates of Jerry over and over again for years."
DeusDaecon does a review of the third film (and the first two): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k5vcWQYwIM
The Platform review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXTnsnqvEgE
An interesting comment by Linzzy Tiger to the review and film, "the girl WASNT REAL, the ending is in the MIDDLE of the film, they never sent back the girl, she never ate the panacotta, because she wasnt there. we see the guys at the top take the panacotta, the scene were his judging it is because they think the reason no one ate it is beacuse of a HAIR, they take it as a rejection, not a form of solidarity, they think everyone in the hole has more than enough food, and are even picky about it. the system remains unchanged, the message failed."
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 No.9596

>>9576
No the Cube is a vastly different film. It is all about being putting in a bizarre situation and slowly unraveling the internal logic of the world. There isn't any avenue for any class critique in it. At most you can make the point about how pointless the bureaucracy and dynamics of the world and how it is similar to the Cube, with the engineer's arc accepting the nonsense of the world/people and escaping it, just like the group slowly understands the Cube and escapes it. Imo the police officer going crazy is the dumbest twist ever, most pointless villain

That is why Hypercube is so dumb, it suddenly abandons all internal rules and also adds a backstory. I can't seem to find it now, but I did come across the planned sequel that the director wrote but somehow gave up on it. It follows very similar plot but now the cube is 4d, ie the entrance and exit of the cube moves after every iteration.

I think that script is much more superior than the original since the protagonist does go through the arc of not knowing shit, to having the cube explained to him, and finally obtaining the ability to solve the cube himself. Also the villain who is a nurse who thinks she is dreaming and spots a correlation in their progression through the cube and assumes it is causation actually makes sense instead of a stereotypical psychopath.
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 No.9598

>>9596
>dumbest twist ever
I disagree, Pyro actually explains that his good-guy act is a mask that slowly wears off as they progress through the cube, and his true colors emerge.
>the planned sequel that the director wrote but somehow gave up on
Huh, sounds quite interesting.
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 No.9616

>>9598
>Pyro actually explains that his good-guy act is a mask that slowly wears off as they progress through the cube, and his true colors emerge.
But the point is that his inclusion is needless and distracts from the real villain, the Cube and its makers. It became way too melodramatic since his motivation is him being an asshole. His sudden appearance at the end was wayyyyyyyy over the top.

>Huh, sounds quite interesting.

Yea it looks way better than the first but has a lot more effects and more complicated. The cop equivalent in it is more sympathetic as she at least attempts to solve the Cube in her own way.
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 No.9618

>>9616
>The Cube is the villain
No, the Cube is an antagonist, but a neutral one, the focus was different people and their different changes under the duress of the Cube's rooms and traps. The Doctor was vapid, materialistic and angrily hysterial, but as things progressed grew more level-headed, Mr.Cynical slowly opened up and was the only one to oppose the cop, and the cop, pretends to be a leader but as time passes shows his true nature.
>The cop equivalent in it is more sympathetic as she at least attempts to solve the Cube in her own way
Well that's sort of the point with the original Cop though, not really sympathetic, but logically sound (initially) until you se him begin to behave off kilter.
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 No.9619

>>9596
McNeil's insistence that the world must have sense, must have meaning, and must be about him causes him to slide further and further into madness. It isn't some "twist" that comes out of nowhere.
It's also typical copshit. Cops always have to dictate the reality around them and they go mad when the world and everyone in it doesn't bend over backwards to make their statements true.
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 No.9628

>>4450
It really is, and everyone in this thread trying to make some "the train is capitalism" allegory is missing the point. The opening premise of the movie is that human civilization has collapsed; the world is a frozen iceball and the only people left are on a train that functions as a closed ecosystem that is slowly breaking down and cannot be replaced. This is both a post-communist AND post-capitalist world; they're not producing and exchanging commodities aboard the train, but at the same time the material abundance necessary for egalitarian communism is impossible on one closed, aging train. The class conflict between the lumpen stowaways and the regular crew and passengers is interesting, but at the end of the day the choice is between "eco-stalinism" of maintaining the train-society or nihilistically blowing it up.

You can't really make the case for a liberatory alternative to what's presented in the film when it's premised on such bleak material conditions. Maybe they could have gotten out peacefully and lived like inuits for a few generations, I dunno. Apparently the graphic novel has multiple trains and settlements of survivors, so maybe that'd be more fruitful for speculation.
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 No.9631

>>9628
>everyone in this thread trying to make some "the train is capitalism" allegory is missing the point
A whole line of progression representing capitalist classes is somehow not part of the point… ok
>You can't really make the case for a liberatory alternative to what's presented in the film when it's premised on such bleak material conditions.
That's the point. Functionally its a dead-end. There is only a slow death or a fast one, and so the story itself is relatively pointless; no-one can ever really win. Which is why everyone is focusing on the important aspect - the class conflict.
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 No.9830

I finally found the original sequel.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180502093136/http://www.horrorsnotdead.com/Hypercube%28Final%20Draft%29.pdf

>>9618
>the focus was different people and their different changes under the duress of the Cube's rooms and traps
Honestly it was the most boring aspect of the film and why I don't enjoy horror movies in general where it seems like putting people under pressure automatically makes someone a psychopath or crazy.

>but logically sound (initially) until you se him begin to behave off kilter

He made terrible decisions after terrible decisions, even from a selfish point of views. He didn't listen to the girl at the start and even afterwards when she claimed the idiot savant is the only one that can bring them out, he still force her to discern the cubes.

>>9619
>It isn't some "twist" that comes out of nowhere.
I meant the twist of him killing the doctor and suddenly showing up at the end.
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 No.9895

>>9830
>automatically makes someone a psychopath or crazy.
It doesn't. The cop was a psycho from the beginning, but it wasn't visible in normal life because social norms caused him to repress it.
>He made terrible decisions after terrible decisions
I disagree. The girl was wrong initially and the claim of the idiot savant was a later reveal and rather unbelievable.
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 No.10440

File: 1608526566456.jpg (221.56 KB, 1204x690, Snowpiercer 2.jpg)

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 No.10441

File: 1608526566681.png (24.28 KB, 188x338, medal.png)

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 No.13020

File: 1608526903358.png (421.05 KB, 2835x1348, 55b1da1a3414f7f581047e3ce5….png)

To be fair, there are things that can be analyzed regarding the RamDon, such as actual the contents of the dish, the order in which it is given to the younger male first, and the cultural aspect.

But, certainly, the AA diaspora often can be cringeworthy.
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 No.13630

>>4441
lmao yeah dude i just watched this movie and then looked up scenes on youtube and some guy was saying that kindergarten scene actually was about north korea

but it did get me thinking about bong joon ho's politics

communism is banned in south korea and the most popular film he made this year was kinda about class warfare

so… how does that work in sk?
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 No.13644

>>4441
>evreyone on the internet I dislike is a burger
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 No.13645

>>13630
communist political parties are banned, but not the ideology in and of itself
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 No.13656

>>13644
>movie and it's primary audience were Westerners and Burgers
don't be obtuse about the OP's point.
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 No.13699

>>4447
> the train is just the final stage of capital's response to climate change through fascism and attempting to engineer a solution to a problem created by engineering.
The problems of capitalism are created by engineering ? Marx thought it possible it could liberate us from drudgery. Do you have an excuse for negating him ?
>>4448
>When it’s destroyed the survivors are given a new, wider world filled with possibilities.
Snowpiercer ends with everybody dying, the Director Bong Joon-Ho confirmed it. The little boy and girl that get out of the train wreck don't make it.
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 No.13734

File: 1610379542905.gif (431.67 KB, 348x512, 9c80c0450477330cc18819f537….gif)

>>13699
>The little boy and girl that get out of the train wreck don't make it.
Then what was the fucking point of everything?
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 No.14085

>>4446
that filename kek
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 No.14999

>>9631
>>9628
I got Brave New World vibes from the front end of the train, there isn't ANY work to be done, not even white collar
when the conductor filled Chris's head with bullshit about the ecosystem and maintaining order it's hard to see what order there is TO BE maintained
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 No.15000

>>5723
I think this explains when the Party Car all rallied to fight the Korean unabomber

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