/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>1584143
Is there any climate activism we can do that isn't completely spectacle and worthless?

>>1584144
I'm of the opinion that yes, we can. There is a big airport that didn't get built in France because leftists fought and won against this project. pipelines in the US. mines in India etc. Everything counts and its always a good place to get some organization skills under your belt and educate people on socialism. Dengoid scum will whine about muh forces of production but personally won't let a giant corporation transform a forest near me into a parking.

We have to build a wall around Florida to prevent any of the residents escaping when it sink beneath the ocean.

All the Emperor Penguins are dying as ice sheets start to melt before the little penguins evolve in to the bigger ones with the waterproof outside so when they fall in the water in their unevolved form they just die. :(

>>1584143
… "All global modeled pathways that limit warming to 1.5°C (>50%) with no or limited overshoot,
and those that limit warming to 2°C (>67%), involve rapid and deep and, in most cases,
immediate greenhouse gas emissions reductions in all sectors this 𝒅𝒆𝒄𝒂𝒅𝒆" . - pg 20
https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/syr/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6_SYR_SPM.pdf

just skimmed through the report and it looks like we are fucked if we don't reduce emissions immediately, hope I'm blind. chart is from pg 22

>>1584144
Yes, if you tie climate issues back to material concerns and class struggle.

All the infrastructure is based around fossil fuels and it will take decades to phase it out, it was already over

>>1584236
If we had socialism we could do a war economy and replace 90% of it within 5 years

>>1584144
If there was, we wouldn't discuss it here.

>>1584240
I have a feeling that's where we're headed. You don't have a war economy when there's no war. At a certain point it will be undeniable to everyone, even the most hardened climate denialists, that we're facing an existential threat as a species and something must be done about it.

>>1584289
bro, it's already undeniable to everyone, but everyone in power isn't going to give up any of their own money/influence to do anything about it. there's no solution coming under capitalism

>>1584292
It's undeniable, but people aren't dying in sufficient numbers. Food systems have not yet been critically disrupted. When it gets so severe that people start starving in large numbers because of climate change, then the powers will be forced to act. Right now the wealthy countries have the luxury of burying their heads in the sand. Change will happen quite fast once the food system is threatened with collapse. Maybe that day will be too late, but it will also bring everything to a point.

>>1584292
Put another way, for a war economy to arise you need to be threatened with immanent death if you do not take action. In war death is not a mere hypothetical prospect. It's act now or die. For many people, especially those who enjoy great power and wealth, these are the best of times. We're not wired to prioritize the distant future over and above the present and immediate future. We will take the most action when we have the least amount of time to safely act.

>>1584240
>>1584289
I don't want to be that guy saying "the free market will solve it" because it won't, but the growth of renewables is currently exponential because their cost is so low (and their cost is low because states like China and Germany pushed ahead with planning) and respected institutions still have the habit of completely underestimating the rate of growth of clean generation installation which translates into alarming projections. Note that most car makers are already all shifting to EV production because they know any player who doesn't will be left in the dirt very soon.

>>1584300
A collapse of the food system is a fantasy at the current juncture. We can shift production from luxury crops, ethanol production and animal feed (more than 50% of current cultivated land) to actual human food before things get dire. Land used to feed animals and raise cattle will progressively be reduced in the 30s when synthetic animal products will have become cheaper than the real thing.

>>1584292
Right, thats why conservatives are blaming space lasers for everything why anything to do with climate activism online is filled with raging psychos airing their murder fantasies about climate activists.

You underestimate how ignorant the typical person is, we are incredibly fucking detached from nature. I had two friends that didn't know baobab trees or giant sequoias even existed. Fuck, i had one guy who orbits my friend group who didn't even seem to know what an acorn is.

>>1584328
>thats why conservatives are blaming space lasers for everything
Can you please go to USA General instead of making this thread about your people too.

>>1584320
I'd argue by emphasizing cost you're looking at the wrong thing. The important part about renewables is what I'd call the "substitution point" at which renewable energy generation can output the same amount of power as fossil fuels at a manageable cost. What is the amount of energy generated on renewables compared to fossil fuels? What are we prepared to sacrifice if we can't completely substitute them without breaking even?

Another factor to consider is how climate degradation will throw off current projections based on existing conditions. Loss of arable land due to wildfires, drought, and desertification will make farmers lives much more difficult. The drying up of reservoirs will hurt hydroelectric power. Species loss–specifically the die off of pollinating insects–will damage crop yields.

The complexities of the dynamical systems involved in climate change and its economic impacts are almost humanly unfathomable. I suspect we'll be in for a lot of nasty surprises.

I do have some trust in human ingenuity to dig us out, but certainly not under the capitalism that is burying us.

It's over

a global cybernetic planned economy is the only solution to the climate crisis

>>1587142
Really hopeful about those feedback loops huh

>>1587142
We will overshoot 1.5 but it doesn't mean it's over doomer

https://archive.is/XsmGq
>Burning Man 2023: With no estimate of reopening time, Burners party in the rain and mud
https://archive.is/0CNBk#selection-2078.0-2097.92
As Hurricane Idalia caused flooding, some electric vehicles exposed to saltwater caught fire

Eco reactionaries -
>"We shouldnt build dams to hold water upstream in california because it messes with the brackish water of san francisco bay and kills off the fish there that arent even native to the area"
>"We should save the environment by restoring every desert back to being a lifeless sandy shithole and killing off billions of brown people instead"
>"Erm… what do you mean cacti and desert species can still survive decently in grasslands and savannahs???? What da heck i thought it has to look like death valley in order for the cactuses to survive!!!!"

normal weather

It's nice to see beavers resurging around the world. Everybody should buy a couple beavers that are capable of breeding and release them into the wild. It's probably the easiest way to help the environment via the shay daniels method without having to do much effort personally. Don't call yourself an environmentalist if you dont help maintain the water supply. Seriously if you dont care about freshwater supplies then youre not really an environmentalist at all.

Actually fuck you if you dont care about providing moisture for the plants and animals man. If you think environmentalism is about preventing things being built rather than building nature itself then youre practically useless for the cause

The world has already ended. I just want some time to mourn it tho.

Reminder that 100% of the electricity will be generated by renewables around 2035
>b-b-but the S curve
Sorry it's going too fast now

>>1598770
>Thinks electricity use and energy use is the same
If you knew how bad things are…

>>1598774
It must be tiring to fight strawmen all day in order to keep dooming, maybe you should take a nap. Most of the oil usage will be displaced onto clean and cheap electricity because EVs will progressively replace ICE cars. Because of the abundance of cheap and clean electricity it will make no sense to use fossil powered industrial processes, when you can do it in a clean way for less capital/resources with electricity or green hydrogen. Down the line even cargo ships and then planes will run on electricity once the battery costs and energy density pass the necessary thresholds.

Honestly bros, I’m worried about the future…will it ever get better?

>>1598938
No human society has collapsed controlaby to stop killing their local enviroment. Now, at a global scale… I only hope for pocket communism in some continents.

>>1584143
>Here's the latest report from the IPCC
Lmao this IPCC
>In sum IPCC scientists admit to fraudulent activity, not by outright falsehoods but by distortion, omission and selective attention. Moreover they admit that plenty of money is available for the "easy job" of doing so.
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Climategate

>Vincent Richard Gray, who was an "Expert Reviewer" for the IPCC,[1] called for the agency to be abolished; claiming it was “fundamentally corrupt” and that significant parts of the work of the IPCC (data collection, scientific methods employed) were unsound[2][3] and that the IPCC resisted all efforts to try to discuss or rectify these problems.[4]
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/IPCC

>>1598938
You were born just in time to see humanity punch trough its worse crisis yet, one thing is for sure though, things will get interesting before they get better.

>>1599238
The IPCC should be criticized indeed, not because they fabricate claims about climate change like your glowing website claims though, but because they voluntary underestimate it since they represent oil companies and states/parties interested in guarding the status quo.

>>1599245
>represent oil companies and states/parties interested in guarding the status quo.
The Rockefeller's, the OG oilbarons with trillions in wealth, are funding Just Stop Oil because they want to roll back the very concept of economic development

They want the proles to eat bugs, live in pods, freeze in their homes and accept a steep decline in living standards

>>1599248
Nobody care about you living caricature idealist oil guzzlers, go shill for Exxon somewhere else on the internet.

>>1599248
Meds

>>1598777
>the world can run entirely off intermittent power. dunkelflauten? never heard of it
>capitalist governments choosing saving the world over "muh eCoNoMy muh jOOOooooOOObSsSsSs" retardation and oil lobby campaign money
>nimbys being fine with any of this and capitalist governments not sucking their cock like they always do
>green hydrogen is cheap
>battery powered aircraft
>battery powered cargo ship
>massive battery that isn't an inefficient, energy leaking and fire prone mess
>science "predictions" not being a gigantic fucking lie based on magic 8-ball shaking and hopes + dreams
this is why greens are not taken seriously, at least fucking try to do your research before spouting nonsense

>>1598770
>>1598777
that you actually believe this is sad.

>>1599444
>the world can run entirely off intermittent power
Yes, with things called "grid" and "storage"
>capitalist governments choosing saving the world
They will choose the cheapest options, which is wind and solar, which prices will keep going down overall
>nimbys
Are mostly irrelevant
>battery powered aircraft
Already exist, we'll get to 2kWh/kg at some point which will enable electric airliners
>battery powered cargo ship
Already exist, we'll get battery swapping infrastructure and cheap battery at some point which will enable electric Panamax cargoships
>massive battery that isn't an inefficient, energy leaking and fire prone mess
Yeah my 3kg smartphone keeps catching on fire it sucks so much so I post from my lightweight internal combustion laptop
>science "predictions" not being a gigantic fucking lie based on
Economic data and market analysis? Technology progresses, kinda crazy to see malthusian luddites on a communist forum

Why has climate change, despite being more present and obvious than ever, fallen out of the public consciousness as an urgent and critical issue?

Because China is a world leader in EV and renewable energy systems. We gotta fuck them over a little bit first to keep the West on top. One more decade won't really make a difference.

>>1600307
>Yes, with things called "grid" and "storage"
>They will choose the cheapest options, which is wind and solar, which prices will keep going down overall
"Grid" has an issue with energy loss over distance, "storage" has an issue with energy loss over time. Wind and solar are both intermittent and cannot sustain a base load throughout the day. They literally *cannot* replace consistent sources of energy completely, and if governments push for complete replacement with intermittent power sources, they will find out that in most cases (non ocean facing country that is not on the equator) the cost will keep going up exponentially if they want to approximate consistent base load on intermittent power sources.

>nimbys are mostly irrelevant
You say that, and yet in the UK wind power developments keep getting shut down by these fucks constantly through an appeal to "tHeY aRe UuuuUUUglllYYYYYYyyy" https://www.ft.com/content/1b772b97-30f4-483f-b4b6-4d6ae487a68f
nimbys will be a problem until they are fucking gulaged, and they will deserve it just like the kulaks did

>we'll get to 2kWh/kg at some point
>we'll get battery swapping infrastructure and cheap battery at some point
ok lol. Electric "aircraft" are glorified handgliders, and electric cargo ships suffer from the exact same problem, and it's all related to the battery issue. There is no future in electric transportation without a better battery, and a better battery is not anywhere near the horizon.

>Yeah my 3kg smartphone keeps catching on fire it sucks so much so I post from my lightweight internal combustion laptop
You don't understand do you? It's one thing storing a few watts in a small, low voltage battery, it's another thing altogether when you need to store gigawatts of energy in a high voltage application. The heat losses are an exponential function. The weight of the battery scales faster than the power it can output. There are actually hard physical limits on this shit, and within our current understanding of it all it is *impossible* to make a big and usable battery. I mean shit, a fucking home UPS is a shitbrick and that outputs less than a kW. How many watts does your phone battery output?
<just hook up 1 million phone batteries in series and use that to power a jet lol

>Economic data and market analysis? Technology progresses, kinda crazy to see malthusian luddites on a communist forum
Too many video games syndrome. Research is not a progress bar, it is a dice roll and the dice are loaded to snake eyes. Especially on the battery question. It's something else when you see "i fucking love science" liberals on a communist forum.

Here's the thing about your dumb optimism: it doesn't save the world, now does it? It only tells us to "wait and see" and we can't fucking do that. Currently the best option for clean power is nuclear, and this is despite its operating costs, its dangers, and its complexity. Nuclear for base load augmented with solar and wind for load following and peaking is what will save the world. EV won't save the world, cutting down on private transport and embracing public transport will. Cutting down on flights will. Cutting down on goods transport will. This isn't """""malthusianism""""" it is common sense. I'm sick of green bullshit pretending like if we just believe hard enough everything will be all right in the capitalist framework. We either have a world revolution that will take down capital and their psychopathic growth incentives or the world will end, it is that simple.

>>1599444
Add on
>Make steel in furnaces from windmills and solar panels, lol
>Dig the foundation pits and concrete from windmills and solar panels

Green energy is completely retarded. None of it makes sense and it only starts to make sense when you realise the green movement was literally started by the eugenics movement
So the dismantling of energy infrastructure is for purposes of harming workers (who will die due to lack of energy) rather than any noble goal of protecting mother earth
https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2015/04/520190.html?c=on

>>1600764
You operate under outdated assumptions, technology progressed since the 1970. Hdvc power lines are a thing, storage is a thing, baseload is becoming not a thing.
https://jeromeaparis.substack.com/p/the-duck-in-the-room-the-end-of-baseload
Nuclear doesn't have a place in how the grid is changing, because (besides being potentially very dangerous, too long to build, extremely expensive and not accessible to most countries in the world) baseload is becoming an outdated concept since wind and solar need flexible plants (gas for example) until storage is becoming widespread enough. I guess you would agree with Bruno Lemaire who said nuclear power being extremely expensive is ackshually a good thing because it'll stop people from consuming too much power.
Btw, we already have 80 meters 3200t electric cargo ships, aircraft will come later but it's just a matter of time, all serious players are now researching those.
>b-b-b-but we must do degrowth and do this and that to save the world
Very cool but I'm not interested in empty words, internet militantism and how ideas could save the world just now, but in understanding the current trends. Fact is capitalism probably has many, many decades ahead of itself, emissions will soon plunge and even if we keep fucking with the biosphere the hard limit is still the rate of profit, not an implausible doomer scenario of negative feedback loops.
>>1600882
Green energy is literally the best way we have to power our space stations and the only way we'll get power to the poorest parts of the world. It's less retarded than you for sure.

>>1601244
>baseload is becoming not a thing.
The entire premise of that blog post is based on personal demand, i.e. air conditioning, tv watching, whatever the fuck people do at home. It's missing the point that increasingly larger amounts of power are required by around the clock/low demand time use things like: server farms, EV recharge (takes fucking ages, usually left on overnight), refrigeration (heatwaves will increase the need), 24 hr services support (hospitals and the like take a lot of power to run), etc. And then there are also seasonal changes to take into account such as higher amounts of power consumed in the winter when solar produces less power due to thicker cloud coverage.

The blog also admits itself that despite its own claims gas fired base load will STILL be needed to deal with the duck demand, even when he's only taking into account personal power use. It's all wishful thinking. Intermittent power is intermittent power, it cannot run base load and base load will always exist because power usage isn't limited to people watching love island when they come back from work.

The only way base load will become "not a thing" is if intermittent power has so much redundancy built into the system that massive amounts of GW of power go to waste every day, which means that the power cost for renewables will start rising again. Then governments will be tempted to just build hydro power everywhere which will fuck over rivers and the ecosystem.

>we already have 80 meters 3200t electric cargo ships
You mean this thing? https://www.ship-technology.com/features/crewless-cargo-the-worlds-first-autonomous-electric-cargo-ship/
This is a tugboat my dude, not a container ship. Full electric container ships are not coming any time soon, you do not appreciate the amount of horsepower that is needed to propel those things against water resistance. This isn't a tesla neither in terms of weight nor in terms of power requirements.

>aircraft will come later but it's just a matter of time
Again, I am trying to impress upon you how this "matter of time" actually quite likely means "not in this century". It doesn't matter how many "big players" are researching this, the kind of battery that we would require to store the kinds of power needed for electric air and water cargo requires a paradigm shift, not tinkering around with engineering. I am up to date on the science of it, it is not even close, we are literally just throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks because we do not know how to solve this problem in our current physical framework, and in the mean time it keeps getting hyped up with no results. Waiting for technology won't give results, only meaningful changes with what we have now will.

>emissions will soon plunge
pls look at image and stop trolling

btw see that small dip in 2021? if I were a malthusian I'd be saying we need another lockdown lmao

>>1601314
>intermittent power has so much redundancy built into the system
Yes, which will happen in a dozen years
>This is a tugboat my dude
This is an actually existing electric cargo ship. At some point these will become the norm, the infrastructure for battery swapping needs to be built in ports but at that point electric shipping will be even cheaper than burning heavy fuel.
>the kind of battery that we would require to store the kinds of power needed for electric air
Would have a density of 2kWh/kg, we're already mass producing 500Wh/Kg for cars, and the business which is doing that, CATL, is working on bringing it to planes.
>pls look at image
Yeah I looked at it, please look at how much renewable power was installed in China last year.

>>1601482
>Yes, which will happen in a dozen years
No it won't because:
<the power cost for renewables will start rising again. Then governments will be tempted to just build hydro power everywhere which will fuck over rivers and the ecosystem.
The nuclear phobia will strike again and ruin the environment in other ways by halting flows of fresh water just to service the base load, which - regardless of what some blogger writes - is not going away.

>This is an actually existing electric cargo ship.
This is not a container ship, it's a tugboat. It is slower than a contemporary cargo ship while carrying literally 1/200th of its cargo capacity. You say you are against degrowth and yet using these things means degrowth. No amount of cope about infrastructure will fix this.

>Would have a density of 2kWh/kg, we're already mass producing 500Wh/Kg for cars, and the business which is doing that, CATL, is working on bringing it to planes.
Yes its so easy to just literally quadruple the energy density lmao, dude I don't know how else to tell you that you need to lay off the "i fucking love science" website and maybe fucking read some papers about developments to see how silly this copium is? A single airliner needs about 500,000kWh for a transatlantic flight, so a 2kWh/kg battery would weigh 250 TONS and we are not even close to this rating. A 747 freighter model has a capacity of less than half that lmao

It is degrowth or bust with full EV, unironically. There will be no such thing as EV airliners this century, and no amount of hopium will change this.

>please look at how much renewable power was installed in China last year.
please look at the increase in coal power usage in China last year
spoiler: its 100 new coal power plants approved last year alone

>>1600471
>Why has climate change…fallen out of the public consciousness
It hasn't

>>1600307
>They will choose the cheapest options, which is wind and solar, which prices will keep going down overall
Every single country that implements the fascist degrowth agenda (Windmills and solar panels) that is the green agenda has energy prices skyrocket
That's because you need a baseload to pay for solar and wind when it's not blowing or sunny. So you need a full baseload of either coal or gas to backup retarded windmills and solar panels

When people claim Windmills and solar panels are "cheaper" they are a million times more expensive - yo're just paying the government who gift them a subsidy. That subsidy is based off the wind blowing 100 percent of the time (which it doesn't).

If you support windmills you literally support austerity, fuel poverty and people freezing to death in their homes so you can try to "reduce the co2" which makes up only 0.4percent of our atmosphere

>>1602107
0.04 percent I meant

>>1601529
>>1602107
Don't care I believe in CATL and NASA not wikispook and seething nuclear shills. You will take ze electric plane and you will like it.
I just wish I lived in Spain instead of France so I could use cheap solar electricity instead of dying of cold during winters.

>>1602162
>Don't care I believe in CATL and NASA not wikispook and seething nuclear shills.
You are nothing but a footsoldier of the Rockefeller foundation and will meet the same fate all reactionaries will get when the Red Flag flies over your country

>>1602192
Sorry I don't hear you over the sound of the terawatt of solar power being generated. Have you thought to seek a job at the IEA? They want more galaxy brained retards who don't understand exponential curves.

>>1602192
The red flag with the special black Buddhist symbol on it atop a little white circle that most of leftist/pol/ seemingly aspires but perfomatively denounces?

They were also massive oil shills you know

>>1602199
>Sorry I don't hear you over the sound of the terawatt of solar power being generated. Have you thought to seek a job at the IEA? They want more galaxy brained retards who don't understand exponential curves.
When they calculate solar power price they pretend the sun is always shining when in reality solar needs to be backed by another power 1 for 1
They also don't remove the subsidies given to the solar industry. Which is why anywhere that implements Solar and wind means the citizens pay out the arse for energy prices
So in other words if there is a low amount of solar power there needs to be a power station that can be flicked on immediately to accommodate that load.

Take Germany. Even with a 130,000 megawatt capacity of solar energy they can only reach 5000 megawatts at different times in the day

Also given the limited shelf life of solar panels they end up in landfills and are highly toxic.

>>1602231
Ah yes Germany, the country that will generate more than 50% of its power by renewables this year. (Also again storage exists).
>Also given the limited shelf life of solar panels they end up in landfills and are highly toxic.
lol, yes sure glass is very toxic, this i why you only drink from styrofoam cups full of microplastics I guess

crosslinking veganism for reducing climate change thread: >>1602241