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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Did Posadas have anything of value written or was it all just corny pseudoscientific claims and conspiracy theories along with doomer prepper anti-civ thought?
It just seems like a complete joke with the only thing legitimizing it being its brief involvement with the Cuban revolutionaries before being disowned.
The way it presents itself is like a Bordigist art project which somehow was schizophrenic enough to take itself seriously - also reminiscent of Nick Land after drugs.
Outside the obvious - we wouldn't survive a full on nuclear war. So is there anything worth reading about it or is it just a dead meme living on aesthetic and sci-fi?
I got to admit though, these covers look cool enough that I'm questioning if I should buy the books just for the swag.


Its just a meme


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Posadas actually made the case for catastrophe Marxism. While he fixated on nuclear war as the way of breaking capitalist hegemony, one can easily substitute climate change as a more likely but equally devastating outcome.

At the core of Posadism, is the belief that capitalism has become far too entrenched to be challenged anymore. Requiring a devastating blow to uproot the current power structures and pave the way for revolutionary change.

There is some truth to this. World War 1 did just that in creating the conditions for the Russian Revolution. World war 2 for China. It stands to reason without a major disruption in the West, there will be no revolution. Covid was the first nail in a metaphorical coffin.

Mao himself had a posadist moment when he pushed to start a nuclear war with America. So might as well disavow his schizo ass if you think Posadas is obsolete.

Posadists even played a role in the Cuban government post revolution. They still advocate for reclaiming Guantanamo bay.

As for the Aliens. Why do you think the glowies are scared of the space comrades? They are here to help. The secrets to revolutionary solidarity are in near your prostate.


The lunatic and his followers did take themselves seriously though didn't they?
Were they just bored out of their minds or did he really discover something worth noting?
They still have a party that's been existing since 1944:
how have they managed to exist for so long if its just a joke?


>Mao himself had a posadist moment when he pushed to start a nuclear war with America
Castro was teasing it too with the cuban missle crisis


From what i know about them is that they were just communists who also took a special interest in ufology. Its not like a full-fledged doctrine or anything.


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It feels like they acted with a false appearance.

It seems too niche to be worth buying into unless he did have some hidden wisdom nuggets.


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<Its just a meme
Glowing fins typed this post.


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This thread is still just memes. Where are the serious Posadist texts or teachings?

The question is what has Posadas done to even get recognition at all? I refuse to believe that all he got his name remembered for is generic UFO sightings chit-chat and wanting nuclear first strike. Everything else he wrote was just generic Trot literature.
There must be more to it than that.


Have you read his works though is the real question? Because if not there is a lovely site here: https://en.quatrieme-internationale-posadiste.org/scientific-cultural-and-political-editions/

This is for all of the current works that have been known to have been published by Posadas. The reason why he was so popular was when the 4th international was ignoring the plight of the 3rd World it was Posadas who fought back against them and broke off. Hence the Posadist Fourth International.

The Alien and UFO stuff was Posadas answering a question one of his fellow Comrades in the Party who had Taken interest in UFOs after learning about Roswell incident and other UFO stuff that was going on at the time hence the Flying Saucers essay was Posadas response to it. Then his political rivals of the 4th international began to mock the Posadists as UFO loonies.


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I have read what is available and translated. What I wrote is that it feels lacking - as if there was more to the story than just the materials presented.

I refuse to believe he was just another Trot with an interest in UFOs. I feel as if he might've had his own strain of thought rather than making synthesis with already preexisting ones and preexisting concepts. Or even hard evidence for his beliefs rather than hyperstition.

The way he's presented right now is just as a Trotskyist proto-Alex Jones.
I really doubt he wagered all on that post-nuclear war salvation.
I think that was a smokescreen for something else he might've known that we don't.


>I really doubt he wagered all on that post-nuclear war salvation.
I write that precisely because that is the very notion of religious promises for the afterlife.

Ufology and its contents that combined for religious mysticism and doomsday cults (a la Heaven's Gate) cannot possibly appeal to Marxists who know they are full of shit. Posadas either knew that this sort of salvation is bullshit and had fun with it or had some sort of analytic approach to prove it.


Global thermonuclear war would absolutely rek Western hegemony, with no serious targets in Africa or South America. The question then become the ideological composition of the people who survive the resulting nuclear winter. Doomsday prepping, while a hopeless LARP in the imperial core, actually has some value in Africa and South America. Whoever already has stockpiles of food will be far more likely to survive the decade or so of famine.


Matt Christman posited that North Korea might be the most likely society to survive an apocalypse, due to relative self-sufficiency and well defensible geography.


the DPRK is on the US' shit list, so I don't think they would survive a hot nuclear war, but I could be wrong


think how there will be more class conscious chicoms after nuclear winter than neolib bootlickers


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I find Posadism has gained more relevance in the 21st century. Let’s consider what Ufology is. It was and still is, the wish of many proletarians to be saved by a force outside of our species.

An expression of hope in alienated hopelessness. Posadism allows Marxists in the wake of 1991 to reach for a similar hopeless hope. While I am schizo enough to believe space comrades are real and we are held hostage by our capitalist overlords. It’s not about salvation but rejecting doomerism.

Climate change is an opportunity for socialism. Nuclear war is an opportunity for socialism. No matter what the Capitalists do, there is an opportunity for socialism within it.

Absolute devastation is the penultimate negation in the Hegelian sense of the word. Posadism has evolved beyond Posadas himself and even the period in which it developed. Today we see glowops like the AATIP. The Nimitz videos. Gofast. All of which prime us to view an unknown potentially alien race with hostility. Why? What is it the capitalists are so afraid of?


I'd say it's an aesthetic postion, and perhaps our only way out; doomsday may be our best tool


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it's not a meme you chvd


Well there's the coastal and capital cities of said african/South American countries


>Western hegemony, with no serious targets in Africa or South America
Northern hemisphere would get 100% decimated but the mass starvation and diseases it would lead to would affect entire planet.


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Seems rational enough to work.


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had to upload this pic too


Actual Posadas, the guy you see in the pictures, wrote almost exclusively about the political situation in Argentina at the time, he had some notable takes like questioning the existence the PRT-ERP or suggesting that there was a left-wing in the Argentine army in 1974 that could be persuaded into accepting the leadership of the proletariat in a revolutionary war against Peron.

All the good stuff comes from other writers that took his pseudonym, which was a common practice at the time. Don't try to find a coherent line between them because there isn't one.


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You're saying that he was just a generic Trotskyite and everything about the nukes, aliens and the dolphin experiments has been forged and falsified?


>All the good stuff comes from other writers that took his pseudonym, which was a common practice at the time. Don't try to find a coherent line between them because there isn't one.
Source on this? I haven't read all of the "I want to believe" book but from what I've read from it this smells like bullshit. J. Posadas's leadership of his party / 4th International was unchallenged, and if anyone wrote under his name it would at very least be edited by him.

Also, while it is true that Posadas mostly wrote articles that wouldn't look out of place in any other Trot paper, and while it is true that the UFO stuff has been blown way out of proportion by the memes (just a handful of speculative articles were actually written by Posadas), he definitely had some wild positions on nuclear war. Posadas and the papers he guided constantly called for the Soviet Union to launch a "preventive" all-out nuclear war on NATO, reasoning that if WW3 is inevitable their preferred winner (the USSR) should take the initiative and strike first, hopefully keeping Soviet casualties at a manageable couple dozen megadeaths.


The normie articles have some merit on their own, I don't think I made myself clear, up until 1975 Posadas implied in his pamphlets that the ERP (the biggest Marxist guerrilla in Argentina) didn't actually exist, and that it was a media operation run by the CIA to give credibility to the bourgeois sectors in the Peronist movement.


The Alien and Dolphin stuff (it’s hard to say if Posadas really believed this or if it was libelous slander from Anti-Communists) is obviously schizo (Scientific evidence confirms that their is no intelligent life outside of Planet Earth, with their only being Bacteria at best on other “habitable” planets, and all of the popular depictions of “aliens” are pure Hollywood bullshit with all “UFO”s being either schizo hallucinations and/or top secret U$ Military projects like the Stealth Bomber), but Posadas was 100% correct about Nuclear War being Historically Progressive, as if the USSR would have listened to Mao (he had the same views as Posadas on the Historically Progressive nature of Nuclear Warfare) and launched a Nuclear First Strike on the U$, we would be enjoying World Communism right now, and in the material conditions of the 21st Century, Nuclear War is the only way to have successful Maoist PPWs in the Imperial Core (Maoist PPWs are still viable in the Periphery/Semi-Periphery without Nuclear War, with the 4th Industrial Revolution automating and restoring manufacturing back to the Imperial Core making Maoist PPW even more viable in these regions), and if Trump wins the election and turns the U$ into a Fascist Theocracy then Nuclear War creating a World Maoist PPW will be the ONLY Shining Path to Communism (the UBI/4th Industrial Revolution Shining Path to Communism will be permanently Foreclosed), 😂🤣🤢🤮✊😜!


wtf based


Communist Aliens Lmao



>Were they just bored out of their minds
What does 'bored' even mean anymore? It's clearly used in a very different way compared to 20 years ago.


>launched a Nuclear First Strike on the U$
how do you propose they do that?


would you be angry if the alien sent here to make first contact had been procrastinating for the last 50 years?


not being in a state of constant overstimulation


Are there even any other left wing factions that are as enthusiastic about Nuclear War as Posadists (Trots)?


Although mao thought nukes were just a paper tiger, so could be seen as embracing them as part of class struggle.
Too its said that the cuban missle crisis was a real deal and castro wanted to launch nukes at america


Nukes don't destroy civilizations or capitalism. Just look at Japan.

>More nukes will do the trick

It may force us to go back to an agrarian live, but still we will have lords in the manors and wars to know which senile aristocrat should own shitmote castle.


Is that supposed to mean that humanity itself is invulnerable or that it hasn't developed the right tools to collapse civilization and go into a post-stage of rebuilding and restructuring?


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I am. I know I am not a faction.


Huh, you might be right.


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I find it funny how the only current active Posadist party (in Uruguay) which advocates for nuclear war has been just casually engaging in liberal politics and elections with the Broad Front coalition. With cheesy slogans like 'Party for everyone' and upbeat tunes on their political ads.


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Translated from their facebook page:
<Es HOY! Vos decidís el futuro con tu voto. Somos la lista 871, la que siempre te acompañó! Acercate a tu comité de base más cercano y votá. No sabés donde vota? visitá nuestra web www.por.uy para ver qué lugar te queda mejor!
>Is today! You decide the future with your vote. We are list 871, the one that always accompanied you! Go to your closest grassroots committee and vote. You don't know where to vote? Visit our website www.por.uy to see which place suits you best!

And its not like they've abandoned Posadas either. They frequently post about him.
<León Cristalli: 20 DE ENERO 1912 NACE HOMERO R. CRISTALLI. Lo recuerdo infinitamente con el amor de hijo y camarada. Su abnegada lucha social, sindical, política siempre revolucionaria desde el campo del marxismo, leninismo, trotskismo se forjaron en el materialismo dialectico de la existencia y el porvenir socialista de la humanidad. Su vida la dedico íntegramente a la lucha por el progreso social de la humanidad, la defensa de la naturaleza y la relación de esta con el cosmos. Que como expresara Carl Sagan que :" es de donde venimos y del cual somos partículas de polvo cósmico".
J.Posadas (Homero Cristalli) asi interpretó su vida y objetivo “dándole sentido” en la lucha por el socialismo. L@s revolucionarios como J.Posadas, no mueren nunca por ellos mismos son “una necesidad la vida”
>León Cristalli: JANUARY 20, 1912 HOMERO R. CRISTALLI IS BORN. I remember him infinitely with the love of a son and comrade. His selfless social, union, and always revolutionary political struggle from the field of Marxism, Leninism, and Trotskyism were forged in the dialectical materialism of the socialist existence and future of humanity. He dedicated his entire life to the fight for the social progress of humanity, the defense of nature and its relationship with the cosmos. As Carl Sagan expressed that: "it is where we come from and of which we are particles of cosmic dust."
J.Posadas (Homero Cristalli) is how he interpreted his life and objective “giving it meaning” in the fight for socialism. Revolutionaries like J. Posadas never die for themselves, they are “a necessity of life”


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In addition to all this they have active appearances on the Radio Felicidad de Paysandú with an actively updated archive on their website:

This is also an interesting article on them:

Apparently I was also wrong about them being the only still existing Posadist party as another comment points out the site of POR-MASAS
<The POR-MASAS still exists, produces a regular newletter and has sections in Argentina and Chile– although it’s hard to judge what their influence is from this distance. http://www.masas.nu/

Very crusty website, yet somehow charming in its all its trotskyist schizophrenia.


I think the level of stress people are under now is a lot greater than it was 20 years ago. The amount of stimulation needed to distract from it is far greater. So "boredom" has evolved from a state of relatively mild understimulation to a much more aggravated state.


>Nukes don't destroy civilizations or capitalism. Just look at Japan.

"Emissions don't cause global warming. Just look at the model A."


If only leftypol had a paranormal board like 4chan it would be a breeding ground for Posadists so we could have an active discussion on unexplained phenomena and speculations.
Not even limited to UFO sightings.
Would've been cool tbh.


>It may force us to go back to an agrarian live


>Just look at Japan

anon they had two incredibly low powered nukes dropped on them (not even on major cities), modern nukes are 100x more powerful and there's 1000x more of them


Wouldin't be an issue if masses had easy access to weed.


I dunno, weed is more accessible and potent than ever. Even the dopamine factory phone isn't enough to do the trick. I think everything is just so fucked now, the only thing close to relaxation most people can achieve is just drowning out stressors with as much distraction as possible.


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>weed is more accessible and potent than ever
Still illegal in most of Europe.


You only have yourselves to blame for embracing freedom hating socialism instead of glorious American democratic capitalism smh


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>anon they had two incredibly low powered nukes dropped on them (not even on major cities), modern nukes are 100x more powerful and there's 1000x more of them
Not only that, but not even the mutt urban preppers could save themselves unless they decided to outright move to the North or as South as humanly possible.


This video is interesting even though its from the perspective of the US-NATO shills.


>Not only that, but not even the mutt urban preppers could save themselves unless they decided to outright move to the North or as South as humanly possible.

That would really only do so much anyway. A modern nuke going off over a modern city is going to put so much shit into the atmosphere that a new ice age is an optimistic scenario.


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You think self sustaining underground bunkers are impossible?
Westerners have already been experimenting with artificially created enclosed ecosystems and alternative forms of producing energy.
Why would billionaires be investing into it if its pointless?


I think it's safe to assume that some humans might survive a total nuclear war but it certainly won't be poorfags like us.


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Simple solution - just squat the bunkers of the rich and kick them out.
What if we developed our own survival programs to rival their bunkers?


>What if we developed our own survival programs to rival their bunkers?
We have bunkers in every apartment building but in poorer nations community owned bunkers could be viable option. Problem is most proletarians are not nuke pilled.


We experimented with it for a while and /X/ died. So no not everyone isn't that stuff here.


>You think self sustaining underground bunkers are impossible?

Not impossible per se but I really can't imagine them being successfully built under capitalism.

>Why would billionaires be investing into it if its pointless?

People with more money than sense have always thrown their money away on stupid bullshit. When you're that rich it doesn't matter if it's a bust because you're still filthy stinking rich.


That's unfortunate :(

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