No.1835193
ZOGbot thread
No.1835194
All troops are servants of Israel so no.
No.1835195
>>1835193>>1835194Deeply unserious people btw.
No.1835196
>>1835190No, in the modern era military tech has advanced too far and the only way to have a revolution is for part of a military to defect and join the revolutionaries while keeping their tanks and rifles and planes and such.
Even part of the military of russia defected and helped with the russian revolution.
No.1835204
>>1835190>online leftist discourse is overly hostile to military personnelComplete bullshit. All of the main tendencies in USonian political thought are friendly to remorseful vets. PSL infamously has Mike Prysner crying to George Bush that he shed precious American blood in a war that had a false premise, CPUSA and DSA etc are all friendly to vets. Podcasts, Twitter/Facebook/Youtube etc are all overrun with leftoid vets complaining. Anarchists were friendly to Beau of the Fifth Column, who was promoted by Google as part of their brief Zionist anti-hate speech search redirect-to-zogbot-approved-material service.
Anyways, I find it pretty suspicious you don't make any distinction between militaries in imperial core countries and the periphery. Like a volunteer soldier in the imperialist military has the same form or function as a fighter of the new Burkina Faso government stamping out Zogbot jihadists. We can't have a conversation on that basis, it's pointless.
No.1835210
>>1835204Yupp. I agree 100%.
No.1835249
>>1835204This lmao
Radlibs BTFO'd
No.1835298
>>1835204>Zogbot jihadistsJewish backed Muslim Extremists?
No.1835305
>>1835190>despite most soldiers coming from rather poor/minority backgroundsAnd? What use is there be for a military if not to defend private property? Their background is irrelevant, what matters is their current position.
No.1835306
>>1835298how new are you, my friend?
No.1835307
>>1835204>All of the main tendencies in USonian political thought are friendly to remorseful vets.Indeed, just look at the reaction to the idiot who set himself on fire, even here.
No.1835316
>>1835311Good job proving his point, retard.
Can't wait for radlibs to whitewash their military industrial complex using that little guy.
No.1835324
>>1835318>all protests are le goodIf he didn't want to be called stupid then he should've organized with proles instead of killing himself in a spectacular (literally) way.
No.1835330
>>1835324yes, everyone who opposes the israeli apartheid regime is good in my book
seethe ziocuck
No.1835342
volunteer armies are full of chvds whereas conscripted armies tend to be a mix. hence why communists should advocate for conscription. then agitate among young people to increase class consciousness in the army
whether this is necessary depends on how willing porky is to use his armies to put down revolution. history tells us the answer is "very"
No.1835375
>>1835342Telling young people that their country is a violent imperial power that oppresses the global south, while at the same time arguing for them to be forced into the military perpetrating the oppression (and potentially dying for it), is a very tough sell. Your analysis is correct, but I don't see how this could ever be advocated for, without alienating the youth.
No.1835376
>>1835190>military recruiting on bunkerchan of all placesNo, they've been informed how bad the military is all their life and they still choose it. They are not allies.
>they're just doing it for the benefitsFirst off, every role is supporting liberal imperialism in some way. The least harmful could be like a cook and that's still like as if you were handing out sandwiches to the IDF. Second, they have been informed how bad their domestic benefits are and they still choose it.
The idea that you would win over the military purely by appealing to their class is just hilarious It's like socdem shit where you think you can achieve communism by voting democrat enough times.
No.1835387
>>1835375it would certainly be better to raise militancy among workers outside the regular army, but porky typically doesn't allow communist freikorps
No.1835415
Japan sees 24/7 leftists protesting outside of military bases. Anywhere else in the world with American military presence that sees similar?
No.1835418
>Is there anyway to recruit them?The military is brainwashed into following orders from the state without asking questions, that's the whole point of military discipline.
The military is mainly made of "soldiers coming from rather poor/minority backgrounds", indeed, who are willing to do potentially deadly grunt work for the state, in exchange of better material conditions than what you can get by being a civilian laborer, that's the whole point.
What can communists offer to the military that the state can't offer to them right now? The state really needs to fuck up badly if it comes to a point where the military will join revolutionary leftists instead of doing a coup d'état to ensure military leaders keep a cushy place within the state apparatus.
>>1835342>go die in Ukraine and Israel prole, if you agitate enough before inevitably getting disciplined and isolated by your superiors, the Revolution™ will finally come trueAnd to avoid feeling unhappiness, you could also throw yourself off a cliff, but I don't advise doing that.
No.1835471
>>1835298You new here or something lmao?
>>1835307I blame the Dalai Lama for self-immolations in his organization, and I blame the US military for pushing that man to suicide. But I wouldn't mistake it for a liberating act.
No.1835478
>>1835190>picShe's not even hot like Azov-chan
No.1835479
>>1835478have you got a Ukraine SSR version yet?
No.1835480
>>1835479Some anon made an edit, but its really low res and SFW
https://leftypol.org/draw/res/4336.html#q4394 No.1835621
>>1835190>Nguyenoh of course shes a Vietnamese-American chinlet
>>1835415People have been protesting outside US Military bases since they were established, turns out sitting outside them with signs doesn't really do much.
No.1835631
>>1835621I dunno man I'd patrol her strategic hamlet if you copy
No.1835639
>>1835376>No, they've been informed how bad the military is all their life and they still choose it. They are not allies.This is a very privileged take. Sure, it's a mixed bag, but the vast majority of those who enlist come from places of little opportunity. They don't give a shit about politics, they want free college.
>Second, they have been informed how bad their domestic benefits are and they still choose it...What? What are you talking about here?
>The idea that you would win over the military purely by appealing to their class is just hilarious Yes you can appeal to them. They're not brainwashed, if conditions deteriorate, there will be agitation and disagreement. What even is your solution to this problem then if to not appeal to them? Kill them all?
No.1835669
>>1835639Some of them just want an income. They might be reachable, with the right program.
Others want the predatory masculinity that classical society taught them to want: adventure, conquest, dominance, and so on. They may help you win the battle but their price is a piece of the peace. The best one can hope for is that they don't mind or recognize their world being destroyed, and will sit this one out.
>What even is your solutionTeach them the word "frag". The revolution needs fewer submissives.
No.1835850
Nope. You can’t have a revolution without a split in the army. Every single successful Leftist Revolution was facilitated by the army splitting and military officers crossing sides. Or alternatively another military backed by a state training would-be revolutionaries. Which is among the reasons Revolution likely won’t happen in the West. The left can’t speak to or win over sections of the military.
No.1835858
People who categorically denounce employees of the military, and even in some cases the police, as unsalvageable clearly haven't learned the very basics of socialist theory. Their employment shapes their actions, and defecting threatens their economic stability. But, it keeps happening! Why?
This is the same reason why we attack weapons factories themselves and not the proletarians working there. Why we work with the wharfies and their unions instead of calling them baby killers for loading trade bound for Israel. We understand why people have shit jobs and why they need support if they're going to sabotage or leave them.
As for military defectors, highly rec Eyes Left episodes interviewing people who left and became socialists. You'll quickly understand how horrible it is in the military and the potential for radicalization it creates. It's clear that even among a "" volunteer"" military, most people are there due to paying debts as a homeless kid or out of a misguided sense of honor quickly broken down.
No.1835874
>>1835861>not posting sup_bootlickers.webmPoor form, comrade!
No.1835943
>>1835298Welcome :) enjoy your time!
No.1835971
>>1835874Not that guy but that sounds interesting, where can I find it?
No.1835973
>>1835894lmao i was hoping your vid was about that
No.1835980
>>1835977
Define 'willingly', wrt the socioeconomic system we live within.
No.1835982
>>1835977>>1835980'consent' is irrelevant
No.1835983
>>1835375Directly tie your advocacy for conscription with a government job training and education program that ends offensive wars and brings the troops home and teaches them to fix potholes and rusty bridges and maybe even install high speed rail. Say that maintaining infrastructure is critical for national security and appeal to peoples sense of democracy and their right to self determination then force the state to lash out and deny it.
No.1835993
>>1835190military is for faggots srs
No.1836009
>>1835342>hence why communists should advocate for conscription.incredibly fucking retarded
No.1836016
>>1835977
>anyone who willingly signs up to murder people overseas
Stopped reading. This is a meme response.
No.1836018
>>1835342>"communists" should (dumbfuck idea)<immediately point out why this is a dumbfuck idea but still leave it up in the airAre you serious?
No.1836023
>>1836009American (i.e. IDF) police training induces that "thin blue line" bunker mentality that convinces cops that they are a class apart from the people they police. The philosophy of force protection also dominates military relations with "host" countries. Conscription for either force helps negate that sense of distinction and expands that comradeship and sense of participation (and knowledge of doctrine) to the whole people. The state must leave itself somewhat vulnerable to withering away, even as it defends against outside wreckers. No?
No.1836026
>>1836023>that they are a class apart from the people they policeuh, but they are. even from a marxist point of view LOL
No.1836027
inb4 "class is about what mentality you have mannnnnnnn"
No.1836029
>>1836026Which Marxist class do the police belong to, and why?
No.1836060
>>1836026It used to be common for police to live in the neighborhoods they patrolled and interact with the same people off the beat as on it. That custom changed for various reasons, enabling ever more intense enforcement of ever more intrusive laws.
>>1836029The two-class destination was only a tendency; like the rate of profit, capital staves off the inevitable by inventing new sources of surplus to exploit, until that is no longer possible, i.e. until its metabolism is broken. In the late 19th century USA, capital and the old middle class co-produced managerialism, which moved through Leninism and through Progressivism, and later through Nazism. The managerial stratum more or less replaces the church bureaucracy in its social function of holding economic relations together softly and negotiating between the master and the slave.
>>1836042You're absolutely right. I meant to denigrate the sense of risk-chasing and chicken-playing, not the sense of discovery or exploration or active playful leisure.
No.1836508
>>1835330You're exactly the kind of leftoid who goes gaga over some well-off uni kids lounging and dancing on campus "for Palestine" at a time when proletarians around the world have taken practical steps to block arms shipments to Israel.
No.1836518
>>1836060>It used to be common for police to live in the neighborhoods they patrolled and interact with the same people off the beat as on it.A landlord can also do that. The petit-bourgeois in general can also fit the definition of "poor", doesn't make them less petit-bourgeois.
>The two-class destinationWhich was never a thing. Even in Marx's analysis there were more than two classes, including the petit-bourgeois and aristocrats.
No.1836521
>>1836508Qassam brigades and Sarya al Quads both put out statements in favor of the students, why disparage them if you're not a wrecker?
No.1836541
>>1836521Do you have an actual counter-argument that isn't "group desperate for any kind of support because they're getting genocided said so"? Intentions alone don't matter.
>le wreckerSame buzzword the retards who like "left unity" love to use. Is it so hard to have actual analysis in this place?
No.1836542
>>1836535
The students are putting PR pressure on the genocidal states, media narratives do matter
No.1836550
>>1836508>well-off uni kids lounging and dancing on campus "for Palestine" at a time when proletarians around the world have taken practical steps to block arms shipments to Israel.these are not mutually exclusive, shlomo
No.1837486
>>1835204The question basically comes down to what side the soldiers stand on in the partisan struggle; the veterans in the PSL who oppose the American empire's militarism are good, while the ones that do the ZOG and NATO bot patrols and similar warmongerism are counterrevolutionary, but in any case make the distinction of politics very obvious so that there isn't confusion. This isn't even just about government people. The purported conservativist rightist that supports reduction of American military operation internationally is more productive than the democratic socialist that declares that the PoC people of the world must have Western LGBTQ ideology forced at gunpoint by the Americans' military.
No.1837508
>>1837486>the democratic socialist that declares that the PoC people of the world must have Western LGBTQ ideology forced at gunpoint by the Americans' militarylmao in what world does these people exist? DSA is against American Imperialism
No.1837510
>>1837508>lmao in what world does these people exist? DSA is against American ImperialismSame way the SPD was against the NSDAP.
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