>>1850555None of the above.
Set a fire in the voting station.
>>1850556I mean sure I feel you, but I dont see how this will help me or us.
>>1850555KKE or Diem25 would be fine. Diem25 is doing good work abroad in eg Germany. If they weren't, I'd say KKE, but mera25 for example receives support from diem25.
Which party is supportive of Russia’s SMO? That’s your answer
>>1850559Yeah, I feel like DIEM is at least doing something in Europe which is totally mentally dead…
>>1850560Why? Expand.
>>1850561None, but KKE had a more cringy imperialism take.
>>1850562>Why? Expand.because it is LITERALLY an abbreviation of KEK and full of boomers
>>1850562Really? There are no major Greek parties that take a stand against Russophobia? If this is true then the Greek Orthodox Church has truly fallen off hard
>>1850555KKE. Much more solid theory of many parties in the old continent. Cringe take on gay marriage though
>>1850567>Cringe take on gay marriage thoughso the only "bad" thing about it is that her idpol is not liberal?
>>1850559 (me)
I also low key dislike KKE because they fund retarded parties abroad, eg PCM in Mexico. Their bothsideism regarding Ukraine revealed their network of influence, left a lot to be desired.
The failure of western communist parties, in a variety of ways, makes me think that communists should stop pushing for communism, but instead push for a change in how political representation exists. Namely, from the fundamentally antidemocratic liberal democratic systems of representation, to the Cuban system of representation.
1. No need to invoke scary Stalin or Lenin
2. No need to convince people to read Marx
3. Can single focus on this issue rather than care about other issues that could split the party. Even fascists are welcome as long as they hyperfocus on this one goal.
4. Can easily convince unionists, progressive liberals, urbanists, etc.
At the beginning, there might be some chaos with some places voting ridiculous right wing policies, but would eventually be replaced by pro-worker policies.
There's no point in trying to win in liberal democracies in the west on a communist platform. Communist parties can't help but LARP, split, purge, sexually harass everyone. It's near impossible to have a communist party that isn't filled with liberal drooling morons who are somehow more destructive than literal undercover cops.
By subverting the electoral system, then we would actually have a chance to use it to further our goals.
>Where the fuck are they on the internet?a simple google search would lead you to their twitter
https://twitter.com/gt_kke
>>1850557>I mean sure I feel you, but I dont see how this will help me or us.Yea. But it will be a spectacle representing the decay of this rotten system…
and it will make you feel better. Free pHerapy!>Really? There are no major Greek parties that take a stand against Russophobia? If this is true then the Greek Orthodox Church has truly fallen off hardGreece Has truly fallen off very hard.
>>1850567> Cringe take on gay marriage thoughYeah I forgot about this and the gay adoption thing.
>>1850572I dont think KKE is filled with liberal drolling morons. Your post sounds too much american btw. Show power outlet.
>>1850574Oh they have a twitter? wow. Is it there where I can discuss serious discussions?
>>1850577At least both parties dont go Russophobic. The Greek Orthodox Church has fallen indeed. Many things point towards this..
>>1850667I think you are right to have a concern about lack of seriously online presence btw. To me it speaks to lack of any real youth engagement or power, as in a thriving party it is something younger members would be doing.
We will see a final collapse of some very old Communist parties in the next decades if they do not get in serious new people as anything more than low-retention casual membership.
as youre selling them, diem25 sounds better. i know nothing about greece
you can always just not vote or annul your vote, and organize within those parties to debate and discuss the things you like and dislike about them
Dont vote
>Probably controlled opposition or will sell off when time comes
Maybe but there are clear signes of the opposite being the case. They lost a lot of supporters when they failed to conform after the Ukraine war broke out. Pure opportunists (like Zizek) would have acted differently.
>>1850570Breathing is American cultural imperialism, make sure to tighten your collar to be a good anti imperialist
>>1850572What's wrong with the pcm-ml?
>>1850923whoa, aggressive, aren't we?
inb4 OP just votes and then does nothing for the next few years
>>1850925There's one anon recently who is very touchy. Probably abused by their boss or smth.
KKE is the best party in all of Europe. They have correct position on imperialism (oppose all capitalist govts but focus on opposing Greek and NATO-EU). They build movement for revolution and are not trying to find some quick "political" solution for problems of capitalism. Read their party congress documents.
Diem25 and other "left" parties are just socdems looking for fast cringe bandaid solutions, not building a movement for future.
>>1850555Does anyone else always read their logo as the n-word for jews?
>>1851427russian saboteur?
>>1851437wow seriously? It filters it k|ke into THAT? Are the jannies redditors now? Being russophobic like that
>>1851387>Read their party congress documents.Here is the problem with KKE. They may do all that shit but they have zero relevance only and we are in the 21st century. And not, I do not want to go out and talk to a random person on their booths to tell me the same shit they say.
Back in 2012 at least, they were still being against their members using facebook. This ended up with them being retards with online stuff and people leaving instead of learning to use it as a weapon.
Where they fuck do I find these documents? Which of all out of the trillion pages they write?
>>1851129>inb4 OP just votes and then does nothing for the next few yearsI will do exactly that because of materialism. I have nothing to gain by acting right now. I will enter the party when they do the revolution for me.
R8 plan.
>>1850562Kke has the correct line, you fucking kautskite
>>1850570Retard strasserite
>>1851510I just don't see how Moscow falling to the Burgers and NATO expanding to Vladivostok will serve the needs of the revolution. Beyond that, the intercapitalist fighting is bringing instabilities therefore opportunity. It is helping China to get more time, Africa and Palestine to revolt further and the whole world to unite against the number on communist extinguisher of the past century.
I mean, I havent read theory past the manifesto, but…
>>1851499>because materialism Don't use words you don't understand.
>>1850911Which is PCM-ML? I only know PCM, which is allegedly funded by KKE. They're rapist "stalin"/Politburo larpers that do fuck all. I've heard there's some growing trotskyist orgs that are apparently doing good work. The larping needs to fucking stop Jesus Christ.
>>1850556True. That would exalt the revolution in the imperialist countries
>>1851525Help me understand
>>1851527yeah you are confused party of mexican comunists PMC is the rapey one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Mexico_(1994)Communist Party of Mexico (Marxist–Leninist) is the one thats in the same international than KKE and they aren't rapists afaik though they do ally themselves with the pmc and looooovee stalin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Mexico_(Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist)also for some reason someone deleted their wiki pages in spanish
KKE
VAROUFAKIS IS A FUCKING TRAITOR
>>1850555I don't think it's really worth voting, but do what you want.
I do think it's good to support a party that wears an explicitly communist banner though.
>>1850555I really like workers actually fucking owning the means of production so I would vote DieM.
>>1851748 (me)
Nevermind, I don't know what I was on earlier, there's no reason to support political parties.
>>1850557It wouldn't help us in any way but it would be pretty funny
>>1850555>>1852140Communists must not hide their positions to appear acceptable to the bourgeoisie, but rather the revolutionary position of the proletarian class must take power as the dominant class, abolishing class society so that the population can become politicized.
Furthermore, the European Union is not a reformable institution, but rather an institution that prevents the process of nationalization for the public monopoly in the economy. Every communist must prioritize economic and food sovereignty which is a term that many so-called "communists" do not remember.
Here is an example from Marx and Engels of how to vote in a bourgeois election:
<Complete abstention from political action is impossible. The abstentionist press participates in politics every day. It is only a question of how one does it, and of what politics one engages in. For the rest, to us abstention is impossible. The working-class party functions as a political party in most countries by now, and it is not for us to ruin it by preaching abstention. Living experience, the political oppression of the existing governments compels the workers to occupy themselves with politics whether they like it or not, be it for political or for social goals. To preach abstention to them is to throw them into the embrace of bourgeois politics. The morning after the Paris Commune, which has made proletarian political action an order of the day, abstention is entirely out of the question.
<We want the abolition of classes. What is the means of achieving it? The only means is political domination of the proletariat. For all this, now that it is acknowledged by one and all, we are told not to meddle with politics. The abstentionists say they are revolutionaries, even revolutionaries par excellence. Yet revolution is a supreme political act and those who want revolution must also want the means of achieving it, that is, political action, which prepares the ground for revolution and provides the workers with the revolutionary training without which they are sure to become the dupes of the Favres and Pyats the morning after the battle. However, our politics must be working-class politics. The workers' party must never be the tagtail of any bourgeois party; it must be independent and have its goal and its own policy.
<The political freedoms, the right of assembly and association, and the freedom of the press — those are our weapons. Are we to sit back and abstain while somebody tries to rob us of them? It is said that a political act on our part implies that we accept the exiting state of affairs. On the contrary, so long as this state of affairs offers us the means of protesting against it, our use of these means does not signify that we recognise the prevailing order.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, "Apropos Of Working-Class Political Action".https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/09/21.htm
<Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels , "Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League"https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htmTherefore, the party called KKE fits into what Marx considers acceptable to demonstrate the counting of forces.
>>1852175well if marx said so then it must be true!
>>1852175Right, you just reminded me what I was on about.
I went back 3 times, Jesus Christ.
>>1850555><They care mostly for small business. If you dont have a bussiness or you are unemployed they give two shits about you.Wow KKE actually sounds a lot like unionists in the US. The More Perfect Union org that gets posted a lot by service industry organizers now (used to just be UAW type people) led me to investigate its beliefs with some quirky statements, and not just that, they want veterans specifically as organizers. Screams controlled op.
Of course could be unrelated but reaching specifically for the petit boug while also trashing global southerners for not living in the year 3000 seems similar
>>1852207Lol, it bothers me how people here are satisfied with unanalytical historical parallels. Stalin transparent overlaid on the screen, weeping
>>1851512The KKE are Strasserites?
>>1852291MPU are reformism enforcers. They're instrumental in deradicalizing anticapitalist online spaces and herding people into business unions. I have no pity for any ill that befalls them.
>>1851516>I mean, I havent read theory past the manifesto, but…No need to say it we can tell
>>1863693Just mocking makes you nor clever neither helpful to the cause
>>1851690>in the same international than KKE>check to see what burgers are in it>APL<Ummmmmm China is capitalist and imperialist sweaty<Handwringing about "gun violence" two clicks away from calling for revolutionCritical support for LARPer-Glowist thought.
>>1852292>Lol, it bothers me how people here are satisfied with unanalytical historical parallels.They listen to the Apostle Paul and St. Cyril who chop up the words of their mythical object for worldly (social, not material!) convenience. Casting it in that way at least reveals the nature of the Christian Marxism farce.
>>1863725>China is capitalist and imperialist sweatyit literally is though
how the fuck is it not capitalist anon, do you know the definition of capitalism?
>>1864431There is literally a communist party in charge.
>>1864439Finally, some real theory in here
>>1864446westerners_telling_the_rest_of_the_world_how_to_do_communism.jpg meme
>>1864454If only you weren't trying to create a world religion, every critique wouldn't seem like an attack on god.
>>1863678Man, you guys have like 5-6 socialist/communist parties while we here don't have any whatsoever
share some, even trots are accepted at this point
>>1864439True, however as an euroid I will still probably voot in two weeks for whatever leftist party or coalition is most likely to pass because the predicted far right takeover makes me real uneasy.
>>1864439>Communist Party of China>dead generationsThis meme brought to you by CIAnarchist gang.
>>1864446>Collectivized Agriculture>Workers Councils have representation in every Company's board of directors>commanding heights of economy all SOEMaybe if you developed the productive forces to get out of your armchair you could see what's going on today.
>>1864583The more, the less effective unless they actually form a united front. Even the dumbest electoralist should understand this just splits the voooot.
KKE, Diem aren't communists.
>>1851498>Back in 2012 at least, they were still being against their members using facebook.What's wrong with that? Social media is antisocial.
>>1865010>SOEs aren't bourgeois relationsThe retarded movement for changing the names of things
>>1865028>Bandwagon fallacyRetarded, kys for piety
>>1865070>REEEEEEE MARKET SOCIALISM ISNT SOCIALISM EVEN IF ITS A LITTLE IN SEZSOkay ultra.
>>1865070The united states military is socialism ultra
>>1865123Except US military spending goes largely to private enterprise and is full of surplus value extraction. The USA can bail Boeing out all they want, but they're not in a position to tell them to stop being retarded.
>>1865232Is a communist party in charge?
>>1865496Roman empire was also socialist
Face facts, liberal
>>1865500don't forget about the Ottoman Empire
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