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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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In a tangentially related /siberia/ thread, a few anons argued about the flaws of the current school model. It's said that contemporary methods of education are garbage, but no one puts forward an alternative. Of course, that would depend on future material conditions, but I find it important—if only to instigate contemplation—that we discuss together what shapes this future system of education could take.
To kickstart the discussion, here's what I've brainstormed so far:
1. Society has to agree on a body of knowledge, i.e. a basic curriculum, required for every citizen (excluding cognitive disabilities), as it will be expected of them to know it as to partake in the community (labor/higher education/politics/culture/social integration).
2. This body of knowledge has to be taught. Whether by one or multiple professional tutors, or a representative of the community, or a relative of the pupil, or educative media (textbooks/video courses/what have you).
3. There needs to be an artifice to ensure this body of knowledge is being properly taught and learned. We see this today in the form of grading exams, but there must be better alternatives, even if only for pre pubescent children.
4. This body of knowledge has to be studied in formative ages as to develop cultured, independent, cognitively-abled adults.
5. "Play" in formative years is understood today as important to a person's cognitive and psychological development. This body of knowledge must both be taught ludically, and it may not be a hindrance to moments of non-educative diversion.
6. Similarly, moments of social integration must be either part of the time destined to the study of this body of knowledge, or not be a hindrance to it, as it is of utmost importance to the development healthy individual.
Please let me know what is missing, and propose the specifics to these points based on your knowledge.

 

>>1858827
Anon, the topic is relevant and important. Yet, please don't fall for boomer pop culture references. Take that 1970s decadent cock rock opus off and your words will be taken with the attention they surely deserve.

 

>>1859007
But I enjoy prog rock and thought it was a funny little nod…

 

>>1859007
>Take that 1970s decadent cock rock opus off
the Nostalgia Critic's deranged "parody" of The Wall has made it impossible to criticize that album for being pretentious blowhards.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/nostalgia-critics-the-wall

 

I would say this "body of knowledge" is what we used to call "culture", and i would personally like to see a return to what i would personally describe as the "canon" of this corpus, against postmodern creations like subculture.

 

From another thread:
>the real question for socialists is why children should be kept from their parents for a good chunk of the day in an environment with demonstrably marginal efficiency in educating and socialising people, which is (historically) very abnormal. the answer under capitalism is trivial: lock up the kids so the parents can work with peace of mind, with a bonus of defining their relationship to institutional rule - to separate the future admins from the future lumpen. (does it come as any surprise that the church was closely linked to early education in feudal and capitalist states?) the answer under socialism, that is more searching. i would venture that they should not, that education under socialism would be unrecognizable.
>in some things - think trains, for example - we default to imagining that they'll be basically the same, but better: you'll get on the train, but it'll be on time, clean, not overcrowded, fast, operated by well paid workers with decision making power, etc, but the basic fundamentals of riding a train remain constant, even if you can't begin to imagine the specific details - for education i think it's important to say that this is a bleak vision. any vision of socialist education that still involves children trapped in a classroom and being dictated to by some petty 30 year old is a wasted opportunity, even if the class size is now 10 rather than 52, even if the teacher is more than 2 lessons ahead of the pupils on the subject in question, even if the uniforms are stylish or abolished (as fits your taste), there has to be a better way, a fundamental change of character, something more like the transformation from being lead on a death march to riding a train of any sort.

>>1859866
>i would personally like to see a return to what i would personally describe as the "canon" of this corpus, against postmodern creations like subculture.
Can you elaborate on that? I'm not sure I get it.

 

>>1858827
The best education system is entirely dependent on the average intelligence of the people in it. If you let a bunch of potheads sit in a system that says "NO HOMEWORK, NO GRADES, ATTENDANCE OPTIONAL" then they will just play video games. Meanwhile, the more intelligent people would benefit more from a more critical approach and open discussion in subjects they are interested in. Dumb people need an authoritative system to reign them in, kind of like how fuck-ups sometimes improve when they get out of the military.

 

There was a brazilian guy called Paulo Freire. He wrote some very interesting and important things about pedagogy, i recommend checking it out.

 

>>1861423
My basic point is that the internet and markets have destroyed society (a la thatcher) and so we need to create a society again through the instruction of culture against subculturation.
This would mean not just a public education but a national and local education.

 

>>1862028
Spoken like the usual enlightened technocrat neolib

 

>>1858827
>but no one puts forward an alternative
Because schooling is morally evil. And as with most evil things, the best "alternative" is just doing as little of it as possible.
Fact is nobody has ever learned anything from schooling before. Education may coincidentally overlap with a student's prior interest in a topic and teachers love to claim responsibility for this, but in the absence of real mentorship people tend to learn whatever they're interested in on their own.
Education is good for eliminating languages and cultures, disseminating propaganda, legitimizing past present and future wars, and making sure parents are more economically productive by keeping their families in cages where they can be raped with alarming frequency by cruel wardens.

 

>>1858827
you've managed to lay out the current understanding of education. hooray! To solve a problem is to investigate it.

The main issue here is that there's no agreement on what knowledge is necessary, and there's really no objective basis beyond teaching skills that everyone uses like language. But also even that model is close to the civic education model, which makes a similar claim that education's purpose is to create a person who can integrate into society and function within its structures, etc. But even that basic idea is contested!

Anyways, yes alternatives are put forward, and each alternative is generally it's own school of educational theory.

My fav idea about how education should look is that the student chooses what they are interested in, and then engages with that through practice as well as study. This obviously requires some background skills like literacy, but it doesn't proscribe any wider set of knowledge that has to be collectively known. But in general everything connects (education isn't a skill tree) so that's not a huge problem. Becoming educated in any area is a decent 'foundation' for education in another, since at the end of the day we're referencing the same world from different points of interest. But the core of the idea is that to assimilate knowledge is an active thing, and engaging in knowledge production helps this. What I've read also kind of encourages specifically pro-social community oriented study/projects. I think this is important. A good teacher of this kind of education should be able to point a student in the right direction, corral them a little to keep them away from pitfalls, help them with navigating material aspects, and stay curious in order to stimulate the learner's curiosity and not snuff out the flame that is their love of independent experimentation/learning. I believe in adult education also though, there's no reason why education can't continue as we get older. Studies showing decreased neurogenesis and neuroplasty as we age don't take into account that we also generally stop learning over time… use it or lose it. This model requires a baseline level of literacy, physical ability, social understanding, and some understanding of the world and what's out there to engage with. I guess that's part of why authors I've read push that kids should be aiding their communities somehow - it doesn't require any extra knowledge of the world, just the lived experience of the child and the issues they've faced and witnessed. I think this is basically the model we should use when educating ourselves and each other as communists. Theory and practice. Produce knowledge in order to assimilate it. Focus on real issues, which serves as the motivation and grounding for higher intellectual pursuits insofar as that's necessary to solving the problem. Currently we do the exact opposite of this, pushing a canon of generic high-theoretical texts divorced from real (contemporaneous) struggles on people who are trying to understand the world around them.

 

>>1859866
This so much, but I don't think we can turn back the clock. And the critiques of canon have truth to them. I think it's easier to communicate when we have a shared cultural lexicon, and it's easier to fight against authoritatively posed regressive cultural norms, but it's also literally indoctrination (which tends to work to some extent), and we can't get back an unshattered culture with social media around. We're in a permissive, sub-cultural era where the ruling class doesn't enculturate its subjects. We'll deal.

>>1861423
i love this

 

>>1861423
But what is the alternative? It is useless to say having kids taught in a classroom is bad without offering an alternative.
Especially when it comes to suggesting the kids should be with their parents instead. For many jobs the parents may work, that is just fundamentally not practical. Nevermind whether or not the parent will actually be good at teaching in the first place.

 

School almost made me kill myself, I mean not rally but it was a large contributing factor and no help at all, not the institution nor the teachers in that institution.

Drugs saved my teenage ass, otherwise i would have killed myself no joke

 

>>1867881
It's very, very, childish still to blame just the school. I'm sure your home and community life was not ideal either.
Reforming the education system is a huge dead end without reforming society.

 

>>1867907
You know what's even more childish than blaming the school? Reproducing Protestant relations and culture rather than bending them to destroy class itself.

 

File: 1716819748394.png (2.94 MB, 1080x1350, nofreetillall.png)

>>1867907
>It's very, very, childish still to blame just the school

Note how i added "not really", I'm not soley blaming school, but it was a large contributing factor overal, if you think our current educational systems are even remotely good I don't know what to tell you.

>Reforming the education system is a huge dead end without reforming society.


I mean, I agree 100%, but any meaningful change within the education system is welcome too, I'd even argue that changing the education system is one of the best steps to take towards changing society.

 

>>1859864
>>1859007
I thought leftypol thought that Roger Waters and by extension PF was based due to him having the same political opinions as the average Zigga.

 

They should start with the Greeks

 

>>1867955
>but it was a large contributing factor overal
Were you bullied at school

 

>>1869134
Ehh, Waters is cool but Gilmour's a huge liberal. I fucking hate hippies.


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