I've been thinking about this for years: what if we gave homeless people money / food / clothing / etc and political literature with the deal that if they study it, don't sell off the books (at least until they're done with them) and answer correctly when tested on the material that they should receive more money and goods than they would get by simply selling off the books. Could we get homeless people to read the likes of Hegel, Marx, Kant, Kropotkin, Gramsci, Lenin, Rosa Luxemburg, Emma Goldman, Mao among other authors in their spare time by simply rewarding them for it? Has anyone tried it here?
We've seen that it works with christian reactionaries, why not try it ourselves? Are there any organizations that do? As far as I'm aware I've only heard of the anarchists from Food Not Bombs doing it (1st picrel) as well as general assemblies of squatters.
Why not try the same with migrants and refugees? They're in a desperate situation too. The migrants from the middle east mostly speak arabic, so the language barrier is a bit problematic, yet there exist many translated works. Even Stirner has been translated into arabic (2nd picrel). Rightoids hate refugees and refuse to work with them, this seems like a great situation for us to work with them instead and help them.
>>1863282Inb4
>What if they're illiterate and can't read??? Easy, buy them a device with audiobooks recorded. Like an MP3 player.
>>1863282Stop copying the Jesus freaks you retard. Either hire them as proper mercs or leave them alone. Sage
>>1863293>Either hire them as proper mercsLol as if they'd accept it right away. "Hey wanna join my political organization?" They must learn the material themselves before they can be initiated.
>>1863298Get lost religoid.
>>1863300"Religioid"
I hate all religions, I am the fucking Leninhat who wants all religious people murdered. I am the guy who wants all Churches, Mosques and Synagogues burned with their worshipers inside. All Pagans, all Satanists and liberal vermin who feel spiritual be tortured and dismembered. This is an attempt to at least salvage what is salvageable. If they still thank Jesus or the Lord or their God after being helped and being given the opportunity to become revolutionary leftists then they must be spat on and left to rot where they shit. This is not a thread about just "being kind". This is do or die.
(5edgy6me)
You'd be better off organizing actual workers. Give the lumpens basic necessities, not theory.
>Why not try the same with migrants and refugees
These are the most exploited people who actually produce value in factories and on farms
>>1863303To rekindle the thread >>1858428 with the initiave of a modern peasant rebellion through homeless people, who instead of resorting to revolutionary violence resort to a lame and pointless existence clinging onto ideas of "God" it is a necessity to either reeducate or exterminate them. Never fucking thank God for being given a sandwich you fucking skank. You thank the person in front of you, not your imaginary friend. Get in the mass line or get left behind.
>with the deal that if they study it, they should receive more money and goods
just give them the literature lol
this happened in my country
it can be coopted by the bourgeois much like in trade unions and the degradation of their material conditions means their consciousness is quite regressive. besides, a lot of lumpenproletariat can "sift through" the organization
still, organizing the reserve army of labour is important
>>1863309They can fucking sell it without bothering to read it. Who's to say the next person will?
>>1863312>homeless dude sells communist literatureMISSION
FUCKING
ACCOMPLISHED
>>1863312Paranoia and lack of trust?
>>1863312how much do you expect a homeless guy to be able to sell some communist book for lol
>>1863317The next person to buy it will be in a less desperate situation. They might simply buy it for the swag instead of bothering to read into it. Or it can be bought by a reactionary in order for it to be destroyed. I know it happens, because gypsies in my country sold off communist memorabilia and most of it has ended up in the hands of ardent anticommunists.
>>1863318They do. They will. They sell books and any junk they can find. They sell tin cans, why wouldn't they sell a book like Capital, volume I?
>>1863282sure, worth a shot
>>1863320tin cans are worth something to scrap dealers unlike books
>>1863349Ok heres how:
>Get the book>See how much time it takes to finish>Add some additional time>Find hobo>Give hobo large sum of money / clothing / necessities (sleeping bags, tents etc) but not too much<Aw thank da lord, gob ble->Hand over book>Tell him if he reads the book by (time required to read + additional time) and studies it (additional time if needed) then he shall receive more and that he must have the book by the the next time (set up a day to meet again on location)>If he doesn't have book ask>If he hasn't read book (insert A clockwork orange bridge scene)IF
<But I can't reed man, my eyez all fucked UP>MP3 player<Nah man I can't hear good either, my ears…>Say: Give me back the shit you fucking slob>Take it backIf successful, repeat process with different books and have talks and tests on the material. By the end of the year, when done with enough hobos, you have a town of communists. Bring them all together and continue from there.
>>1863362Forgot one IF, if he can listen to the MP3 player then you don't even need to buy more books, just have a ready set of audiobooks on it and schedule meetings for each one.
>>1863351Street book sellers are real.
>>1863320>why wouldn't they sell a book like Capital, volume I?>>1863366Peace sells, but who's buying?
>>1863367If selling communist literature was enough, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. We need to get desperate good for nothings to actually read it as their life depends on it. By stimulating them with additional rewards they will either do it or they lose.
>>1863362fucking cringe
get to actual organizing, analyze and report your findings and build success by past mistakes, dont make up imaginary scenarios in your head
>>1863378Who would win?
Your org of 20 disgruntled college dropouts or
my army of 150 angry, hungry homeless guerillas?
>>1863380Look anon, why don't you try this out with one homeless guy, and see if it works out and report back?
>>1863380what does your logical fallacy has to do with what i said?
go organize the homeless, its an excellent idea. few reserve armies of labour are actually organized, its a novel thing. we call them "picketeers". but tbf you need a party to help you with that. thats where the disgruntled college dropouts you mentioned come. gotta unify the struggles and give them a direction
its not easy. if you want to i can share some readings about how the phenomenon expressed itself in my country. theyre in spanish though
>>1863380This is material analysis
>>1863385This is Christian proselytism
>>1863387>made up scenarios are material analysis>trying to share testimonies and evidence about a class struggle phenomenon that actually happened irl is christian proselytismprofound mental retardation
>>1863389Yeah, it's time for me to log off for now
>>1863392nice ad hominems
so you are part of the governing body of an existing socialist regime? didnt know, which one?
the argentine working class has shown its enormous strength many times over in history. the organized reserve army of labour has been the protagonist of the 2001 riots
no one is without sin. im sharing material so we can learn about each other. if you read and analyze what i shared critically youll preemptively avoid whatever mistakes we made
in any case, most socialists in the developed west ive seen are useless dogmatist morons preaching to dead people. are you organized under a vanguard party? what have they been doing these past decades?
>>1863396>nice ad hominemsWhat ad hominems? I was being serious.
>are you organized under a vanguard party?A what? Who the fuck do you think you are tyrant? I'm not endorsing modernized liberal Leninist commodity production. I am the vanguard.
OP is reinventing the wheel of predatory conversion practices and doesn't even realize it rofl
>>1863303>he doesn't know
>>1863396Buena suerte to your carne Mileida project
Economic power is political power.
Economic power is won by having the proletariat grind the wheels of industry to a halt and then when the bourgoies state cannot support itself anymore, taking power through armed means.
Homeless people are not economic actors, they are lumpen. They have no economic power, they have no class conciousness nor can they get it because their condition is one of self preservation at all expense, as opposed to the proletariat who is forced on a daily basis to work together to actually operate the means of economic power, but are antagonised by and against each other by their employer, and their cooperation and shared antagonising against their bosses allows them to build common ideas of class interest.
You don't win revolution by using your limited means (a few bucks from a few workers) to try and convince people whose daily means of subsistance of scavanging begging and stealing of marx. Workers rights against bosses is not part of their daily experience.
The goal of christians is to convince people that jesus is real so that those people go to heaven and they get good boy points. Their religion of eternal happyness after death makes that fairly easy. Our goal is not to convince as many people as possible of marx, our goal is to convince enough critical workers and soldiers of the need for communism to be able to take state power from the bourgoiesie so we can then use that state power to suppress them and then implement socialist goals.
>>1863282Churches and charities have that on lock. This is also why FnB doesn't go far in many places.
Honestly if you have a job you're better of organising or agitating your workmates and your related industry.
Can we talk about the practical applications of organizing the homeless? It's something my org plans on doing when we have more members.
Our idea is thus: create a squat which can act as both our base of operations and as a shelter. Homeless people are allowed to stay there as long as they read theory. Meals are free or very very cheap, and there is a space for the safe consumption of substances and clean needles. This can all be overseen by party members who make sure nobody is stealing anything or hurting anyone else, and if they see something that person is beaten up and thrown out as an example. Denizens will be encouraged to help out around the squat and to come on marches etc., and hopefully eventually indoctrinated to join the party, but all they are required to do is some reading.
I understand this is rather idealistic and not actually like how it would actually go but we have no experience. If someone could relay their own knowledge of the subject, especially direct experience, that would be very helpful. We're going to try asking advice from churches and homeless shelters on what best to do before we enact the plan.
>>1863610Why do you fucking idiots keep role-playing Christianity with a new book every time you see a lumpen? "Ex-" Christoid managerial narodniks and the law of the instrument I swear.
>>1863282Just give them weapons and they can find their own food.
>>1863303Jannies being retarded once again.
Having them read books is too much, just hand them sheets with bullet points that tl;dr the whole ideology and call it a day.
>>1863547>they are lumpenno theyre fucking not stupid petite bourgeois cunt
also even if theyre unemployed they can affect the productive process by organizing picket lines in main transport links
see
>>1863393
already tried already failed
>>1863719High qaulity material analysis
>>1863610well, youre on the right track. its not idealistic at all. i wouldnt suggest learning from churches though. also take this in mind
>>1863724 these people can be dangerous and self-centered. i would scratch the whole "space for safe consumption of substances and clean needles" and im not sure if its a good idea to manage a "squat". free meals is good, academic support is good, teaching trades is good, handling shelter is too much and too complicated
the thing is, the homeless need theory beyond the classics and the fundamentals. a socialist government needs to find a purpose for them, and thats where the party program comes into play
you want to organize them, but for what? what exactly are you planning to do? without a concrete line of action, without a "what is to be done?", the bourgeois state can easily co-opt this movement taking advantage of their desperate situation, survival instincts and lack of class consciousness. i defer to my previous post where i shared reading material on how the reserve army of labour organized in my country and i would suggest reading on what the black panthers did and what were their mistakes to avoid repeating them
>>1863726np homeless people dont care about revolution because they have more inmediate problems like actually getting back into a society the revolutionaries want to destroy
you are asking people with nothing to sacrifice themselves for a revolution that might never happen in the first place they'd fare much better ratting on you for money than spending their time doing le activism or whatever
>>1863727> im not sure if its a good idea to manage a "squat". What are you talking about, we literally already do this.
>>1863746its all good. i simply considered it to be a difficult task for a budding organization
>>1863735>because they have more inmediate problems like actually getting back into a societyMarx already anticipated and warned against eternalizing the relations of production (and, by implication, of society), and here you've made some kind of cosmic myth out of it.
>actually getting back into a societyYou actually need to believe that your shitty bourgeois order is attractive for any reason other than you stole all the food? Nah, that's cope, of the kind said by the office rats in the salvation industrial complex.
>you are asking people with nothing to sacrifice themselves<kamikaze is just a Japanese word for farting"Freedom's just a word for nothing left to lose."
>>1863757>its all good. i simply considered it to be a difficult task for a budding organizationOh, yes, difficult certainly, but what worth doing isn't?
It kind of comes out of necessity to materially aid others anyway (migrant squats and homeless squats), although there are usually at least a few of us in the radical spaces and milieu who have experience squatting at least.
inb4 seething about anarchists
>>1863760poiting out the general attitude of a portion of the working class is not eternalizing anything
>believe that your shitty bourgeois order is attractivecertainly better than starving and sleeping in the cold
>muh kamikazesstop trying to groom homeless people into killing themselves you fucking creep you literally sound like a cultist
>>1863832>poiting out the general attitude of a portion of the working class is not eternalizing anythingWRONG. There are multiple working classes. You're forming the aristocracy of them by projecting your perspective onto the actions of others in an act of self-recognition. It's the sort of thing to do in your diary, not on an imageboard.
>>1863832>certainly better than starving and sleeping in the coldFallacy of relative privation, 5yds
>stop trying to groom homeless people into killing themselves you fucking creep you literally sound like a cultistSave your crying for Lenin
>>1863852gonzalo died in prison for our sins, rest in power.
>>1863841Lenin knew the professional revolutionaries couldnt be a bunch of homeless people
\>>1863844
Have sex not sects
>>1863868>nooo we can only do one thing at a timeGood thing professional revolutionaries don't believe that, otherwise they would never have had any revolutionary success because porky's generals are developing that skill every day of their service. Why not prefer people with no chains to lose (cancer etc.), unless you are merely planning to hold them and pass them on to the next owner?
Anyway, the homeless with nothing to lose (not even their chains) would be a lot more reliable than petit-bourgeois people who polish those chains and hope to someday hold the free end of them, no?
>nothing to lose
thats probably the dumbest phrase in the whole manifesto
the working class has everything to lose, like for example, their lives
those who claim that are, much like marx, engels and other socialist theorists, people who can, after a failed revolution, just comfortably and safely move to another country and "reorganize" from there
>lumpen "politics"
End of story.
Fuck anarchists!
>poor people i find icky are lumpen
another banger from petite boogies
>>1864181>>1864184>>1864187>>1864190Decided to repost from the /leftybritpol/ thread because it seemed more fitting here. Only wanted to give it as an example of how liberals are blatantly legitimizing neonazis and how they're trying to appeal to common people now in an attempt to legitimize themselves.
Bulgaria might become a 2nd Ukraine, I'm calling it.
>>1864194You're being melodramatic. The far-right did this stuff all over post-2008 too. It alone does not mean anything.
>>1864198In this video titled "9th of May, we lost the war, but didn't capitulate" he talks in front of the now demolished memorial of the red army where he influenced people to protest to have it demolished and popularize anticommunism. The entirety of the capital of Sofia and even the whole of Bulgaria has nazi symbols as graffiti and stickers on walls in every public place. In Sofia - Vitoshka street it is filled with "DECOMMUNIZATION" stickers from the Bulgarian National Alliance's website.
>>1864198*Small correction, it would be BNA not BNU, its translated as Alliance not Union.
>>1864204Anticommunism, homophobia, anti-Romani sentiment, Russophobia, liberalism and hate of refugees among other positions are more common than ever before in Bulgaria now. It is true that it also applies to other countries like Poland and most of the liberal world, but in the West with the liberal-progressive narrative a lot of this goes neglected and they pretend that it does not exist or happen. This is normalized here, if an American were to come and see the amount of swastikas on every street corner in Bulgaria they would think they are in Nazi Germany. The education system also blatantly promotes nationalist propaganda and historical revisionism.
>>1864220So make whatever you want of this info, but I think that it is extremely important to appeal to the poorest people in the system.
>>1863282CHAZ kind of did that but they just gave them needles and had them sit in the park so nobody could take it, which is exploitative.
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