bourgeois propaganda
>>1879819Whats scary there?
>>1879820It just comes across as weird. They're pretty nice people when you meet them though.
>>1879823
Leninism is based
Bourgeois propaganda
>>1879813different reasons, we're "extremists" so we look often very unreasonable compared to the status quo. communism no longer really exist as an experiment or as a method countries are using, and if it is it's in incredibly remote areas, so it's almost impossible to take inspiration from, we only really have examples of socialism from the past so whenever we bring them up as a possibility we look anachronistic. the whole "orthodox" thing is also scary, the idea that there is a set of thought which is true and that's it is scary to a lot of people and i kind of agree on them with this we should stop being so orthodox about things and think more outside of schemes. we tend to have few real connections to real life class struggle, very few communists these days actually help striking workers so it's difficult to see how we are actually the ones supposed to help the working class when we do have a chance but we just dont take it.
there's more but that's imo the important stuff
People think class is tied to salary brackets, no matter how poor you are there is always someone poorer and the "perfect equality" bourgeois propaganda claims Marxism seeks works by making everyone as poor as the poorest.
>>1879813The real answer is the crisis of proletarian class consciousness. Communists blow most chances they get because parties are largely unprepared and full of revisionism. And even the one party in Europe that succeeded on its own succumbed to bourgeois consciousness, as you can clearly see after Khrushchev became general secretary: the liberal secret speech, corn cargo cultism, unscientific new lands campaign, no direction in the economy at all, vulgar pre-marxist ideas of culture and architecture, the list can go on forever. People aren't dumb, they see that communists aren't doing amazing and make decisions accordingly. These decisions are often dumb and very destructive, but it is what it is.
That's not even mentioning the "communist" subculture retards.
I'm going to say bourgeois propaganda
Propaganda and like half of the people calling themsevels communists are edgy liberals or freaks. Also communists have very few things to show as their successes in any modern western society, but that also goes to the propaganda department
>lazy answer
The long answer would be pretty much that but elaborated upon tho.
>inb4 [liberal] propaganda
Lazy, but the quickest way to summarize.
Ask Joe McJover about communism, and they'll tell you things which… aren't even socialism. Most people only know the propaganda points, like dictator man cult no voting no freedom then starve to death because you can't pay everyone equal wages.
They're not scared of communism. They're scared of some imaginary non-movement, non-ideology based on propaganda and miscontextualized events.
>>1879818>using shit almost no-one says as examplesComrade…
>>1879818Agreed, we need to work together. I am an ex internet neo-Nazi, I truly believe like me, most "chinlets", "incels" et cetera can change with enough love and attention. I was changed by some maoist fag, who convinced me not to kill myself over Dark Souls 2 summoning. (Love you S, if you can see this <3)
Because the images building communism concocts in their minds. To many the shittiness of capitalism now is preferable to the possibility of a better system later.
>>1879941>I was changed by some maoist fag, who convinced me not to kill myself over Dark Souls 2 summoningThat guy really was a fag.
You should still kill yourself.
>>1879943You first, fucker.
But for real, I think we need to work together to see fruitful leftisim, I truly believe it can be done and done in our lifetimes.
>>1879943^ people like this guy are why
>>1879813If it's so beneficial, why has there never been mass immigration to communist countries from capitalist countries? Chinese are illegally immigrating across the Southern border to the US now. Why do none of you people have any interest in even visiting a communist country?
>>1879818It's hilarious how all ou rightcom faggots dispense transpersonal exclusion as if that were your only move, as if you were fit to judge a real world you've never actually lived in.
>muh imagionary friendDon't care, religion is dying at 1% per year and all rightcoms should kts.
>>1879945No such thing as a ex-nazi retard, if they fell for it once they'll do it again most likely, and anyway you do not want these people in your party.
If they *really* have changed their ways let them join an anti-fascicst organization and make reparations to their community with their time instead of breinging disrepute to any org they'll join.
>>1879973You know I'm part of a socialist org in my town in Scotland?
Nobody wants another world religion or another priesthood. Simple as.
>>1879979>You know I'm part of a socialist org in my town in Scotland?Which one? And they know of your history as an out and out fascist?
>>1879941>I am an ex internet neo-NaziYou mean you were and probably still are underage.
>>1879983>>1879973people can be deceived into believing awful shit it's not that difficult
>>1879982Not giving too much info I am in inverness, and yes, like I said I was saved by a maoist friend who invited me to the group, that was 8 months ago, they know who I use to be.
>>1879983Anon, I am 28
>>1879984>people can be deceived into believing awful shit it's not that difficultIf they are 'decieved' by loosers on an imageboard *as a fully grown adult* what the fuck do you think they're going to do as soon as they have contact with actual IRL fascism, which is growing?
>>1879992>>1879992nta but I was a rightoid when living with my parents because they were both abusive religious fundamentalists, I went commie nearly as soon as I got out. Lots of folks are only rightoids because of brainwashing and trauma. For me going leftie was akin to taking the matrix redpill, discovering my whole life was a lie and never being able to come back to it.
>>1879992Not be fooled again?
>>1879994Anon WTF are you talking about, that guy is scotish, he is integrated into normal society, he has to go to normal schools and the normal workplace and so on, he does not live in fucking fundie land flyover America. lol.
I don't want to talk on your very particular experience but come on he knew very well how deeply he was going. Let's be real he was probably posting about londanistan and sending letters to David Copeland or some insane people shit.
You're goiong to regret taking these people in
>transflagAnd don't spend any time with these types alone, plesae. Nobody wants you to be raped and/or murdered due to the multitudes of extreme sexual repressions these freaks always have.
(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST)
>>1879963I'm atheist you retard but thanks for proving my point.
>>1880005you are deffo trolling are we being raided by pol
>>1880007<implying /pol/acks would ever admit to their multitude of sexual repressions in-front of leftists<implying /pol/ would be considerate enough to sage your dogshit threadsyou are very dumb and very new.
>>1880007If not /pol/ then the Westoid disinformation racketeers, what's left of the West Asian hasbara groups, or some other public-private shitters
>>1880009you posted this twice you haf to be fucking with me lol
>>1879963Religion is probably dying in your western country, but its not going anywhere in the third world, and you can be sure i will not wait until my people leaves Christianity (they wont) to promote a revolution and cutting ALL economic ties with the West
>>1880013That only realized a new separate capitalist world. Until you reject Platonism and its social principles entirely, you will always be slaves to a bourgeoisie.
>>1880019<wenice try /pol/ack.
You have to go back, flagfag.
>>1880020Least handsy Maoist
For most people, say: Communism will kill you.
For a few people, say: I will kill you, communist.
I think this can scare the majority of people.
对大部分人说：共产主义会杀死你
对少部分人说：我会杀死你，共产主义者
我想这可以恐吓绝大部分人
Nationalists like hiding behind the red banner and alienate everybody for not being a spicy flavoured chinlet.
Thats it.
And almost two centuries of Bourgeois propaganda.
>>1880037>neolib disinfo racketeers like Alexander Reid Ross RossThat guy was a full on spook.
>>1880056
The hazoids have come back from brunch
>>1879813Bourgeois revolution was beneficial to everybody 300 years ago, and yet there was a genocidal war and propaganda about rolling heads of kings and guillotines chopping up random people off the streets. We are doing everything right, there's just inertia in the old regimes
>>1879815This
>>1879989>ask question with false premise>you're not allowed to reject the premiseWhy do you bother discussing anything?
The fact that no one here dared to mention the USSR is a good indication why lmao
>>1880131Wdym?
The USSR was a perfect workers paradise where nothing bad ever happened.
>>1879813The biggest examples of socialist states are or were countries under siege, which suffered under great civil wars. All of this caused poverty, RELATIVE to capitalist states. And, life wasn't all that different in this states, with work hours and bosses and shit. So it's hard for people to be passionate and dream about a socialist future when it looks the same. That's why you have people saying "we need something new" who then describe communism without knowing.
>gommunism is about le 99%
mao flag is very fitting lmao
There are so many people who are insistent on dancing around the word "communism" because it isn't (and never will be!) PC, but at the same time also insist on referring to one another with an absolutely fucking wince-inducing anachronism like "comrade" in public spaces. Cringe shit.
Most at least in south america do not know the most basic definitions of capitalism or socialism or communism or anything.
Just look at all the argies that voted Milei because they "didn't want more socialist governments". People legit think "capitalism is when money and freedom and communism when poor and 99 trillion dead"
>>1880131Yea, the demonization of the USSR in every level is a load berrier of the fear of communism.
>>1880274maybe if opportunists stopped obfuscating what communism is we wouldnt have idiots bringing up the ussr or cuba or venezuela or their local "left leaning" government as example of why communism is le bad methinks
>>1880284Being spineless in reclaiming them is one of the reasons the demonization happens methinks.
>>1880291theres nothing to fucking reclaim. outside of the ussr they didnt even have marxist programs for their revolutions. venezuela didnt even fucking have one, unless you believe europe or chile under allende was le gommunism too
>>1880291>the failure of the proletarian movement is not turning communism into a completely meaningless and arbitrary thingBravo leftoidpol!
>>1880274Nobody cares about the USSR except for boomers in the US, lol. The current petit-bourgeois idea of ""communism"" is just Argentina before Macri or Lula or China.
>>1880270>People legit think "capitalism is when money and freedom Unlike the brilliant minds here who think communism is when money (welfare) and ""freedom"".
Propaganda from a young age
Majority of voters still being braindead boomers
Successful cultural revisionism where all the communist leaders were totally peace and love liberals, like what they did with MLK
Pointing at Stalin and not enough people fighting back at the bullshit, Nazi-sourced propaganda against him
Anarchists larping as Marxists means most people think communism is burning cars, looting stores, no money utopianism and everyone lives in communal, thatched huts because we destroyed all the power stations "for the environment." They think it's an infantile phase you go through in college.
Most people feel generally comfortable because the oppression is mostly done through debt, meaning it's not as much of a punch in the face as a famine or whatever
The current fad that everyone must be a theorist in order to be a communist is exclusionary and actively rejects people from movements. Theory is important, but it doesn't build a movement from the masses, though I've seen many communists claim that the "masses" is reactionary and thus I guess communism is just their disscord server.
>>1880297>Nobody cares about the USSR except for boomers in the USThe specter of the USSR still occupies a central place in right wing ideology. It's constantly evoked and used as negative example to justify capitalism (the "end of history", economic planning doesn't work, "There is no alternative", etc). I'd say the USSR lives in the heads of right wingers even more than on leftists. It's very fresh in memory of the ruling class.
>>1880297>The current petit-bourgeois idea of ""communism"" is just Argentina before Macri or Lula or China.The current PB idea of communism is literally libs doing lib shit lmfao. they think stalinism is when joe biden farts
>>1880369<It's ANARCHISTS pretending to be marxists thsts ruining Marxism. Marxists would never!!!Shut the fuck up you extremely autistic child.
Anticommunism, degradation of the working class, telling workers they're thick, nationalism, individualism, and lies about the history of the USSR are drummed into us from birth.
>>1880605>telling workers they're thickThis literally gave me a complex for years.
They are not, most people (in the world) are already socialist. However in the imperial core socialism is not yet a popular enough idea because 1. The benefits of the imperial core have not yet run out 2. Lack of organization among those victimized by it.
>>1880697>The benefits of the imperial core have not yet run outThirdworldoid lie
>>1880607>Right wingers calling people retarded<Haha based show those cringe feminists who's boss ever heard of facts and logic?? Leftists destroyed!!1111
>Left wingers calling people retarded<OMG how could you do this???? Stop being mean this is why no one likes you!!! Show more respect and straighten up111!! Kill yourself
>>1880711<angry reeeee-'ingdamn. miss nap time, bobo?
Benefict
>>1880704It has not entirely run out but its going.
Because in 2024 communism simply means giving transhumanists and feminists carte Blanche to kill anybody they don’t like
>>1880803It was never to begin with. Do you think everyone on Europe is a small capitalist?
>>1879861>That's not even mentioning the "communist" subculture retards.what do you even mean by this? subculture? i don't get it
>>1879813It's a mixture of propaganda against us calling us either totalitarian despots or undisciplined discordians, apologia within our ranks- homophobia within socialist states such as the USSR/PRC, and a problem with our rhetoric.
>>1880863It's true, and by anybody we don't like, we mean people like you.
>>1881269the plan is to get enough followers to be able to force capitalism to end, what more do you want?
burgeois propaganda
>>1881270> force capitalism to end,How specifically?
>>1881273Just like they did before, limao?
>>1881273Mass general strike and/or armed uprising and/or electoralism
>>1881273abolish private property
>>1879955It's probably to do with how the us "illegal immigrant" economy functions + exchange rate differences. I largely blame the seemingly illogical mass immigration to the US (you WILL have a worse life, especially as an illegal immigrant, but that doesn't seem to deter people) on the consequences of the dollar being the world reserve currency still. People make the decision to illegally immigrate largely based on the strength and stability of the currency of the country they are going to, as they often expect to send money back to their home country, which is the main reason why they are willing to tolerate the extremely shit conditions they will be working and living in.
The other part of it is the stability of the imperial core: might not be an issue for China, but for many other people who have to contend with cartels/dictators/american bombing – they would rather go somewhere where the risk of that is low.
>>1880697>However in the imperial core socialism is not yet a popular enough idea becauseThe reason why it is not a popular idea is largely because of a constant strangulation of nascent movements in their cradle by the nature of the state.
Communists have no answer in the present day about how to successfully build a party in the face of rationalisation of politics. Communist politics were always a project of "agitate for worker rights to show them in practice why these rights will never be given under capitalism", but you can't build class consciousness if the entire political system is almost designed to stop the agitation itself from happening in the first place. The managed democracies of the modern age prevent authentic movements from gaining any ground within their millieu, relegating communists squarely to the political wilderness which the.y have largely no idea how to navigate
The moment communist parties will become successful again is when a strategy to organise outside of mainstream politics while still having an impact on mainstream politics is devised.
It's because of middlemen.
The more and more I study capitalism the more I come around to the idea that the ruling class wants to defend itself by defining what it means to be ruling class through including non economic and more widespread forms of privilege.
The reason "social conservatism" goes with capitalism is because a ruling class usually can't rule on its own. It needs a middle strata of people who have some amount of power, not enough to rule, but enough to be invested in the system continuing. Absolute monarchs had the aristocracy/nobles. And in capitalist society you have the petit bourgeoisie, labor aristocrats i.e. high level tradesmen, high paid white collar workers and managers, etc.
Similarly you can define the ruling class as simply all white men (jacksonian populism, us southern ideology), or the nation, religion, or certain ethnic supremacy, etc. The whole point of conservatism is to sublet some of the privileges of the ruling class to middlemen who, on account of their position often being more precarious, will fight to defend the system even more ferociously as they fear their status slipping from the middle to the low. An example of this in the US would be small business owners/petit bourgeois being right wing populist as they fear being re-proletarianized and slipping back into the class status of being a wage worker.
There are two ways people can react to domination, either by rejecting hierarchies, or by desperately looking for some way to not be on the bottom of the hierarchy, usually by trying to puff oneself up by putting other people/groups down and trying to drag them down on the social ladder. Liberals usually explain this as reproducing trauma or something but it is true.
For the same reason a kid who's being beaten at home by his dad doesn't stand up to his dad (often because he really can't) ends up taking it out by becoming a bully at school i.e."i'm gonna hit you harder than my dad hits me".
For example males who's cultures have been victims of enslavement, colonialism etc. often react to these humiliations by adopting ultra masculine or macho chauvinist attitudes over women and LGBT of their same race/group.
The fact is the easiest form of false consciousness is to simply deny the possibility of a truly classless society and therefore society is just a competition for status, clout, power, and of course, money. If you increase the status of a group you belong to indirectly increases your status, and conversely an attack on the group is an attack on your status.
Because if they are legitimated in punching up at the ruling class, then that means that the people lower than them are also justified in punching up at THEM which directly threatens their wealth status and power. A defense of the power of the ruling class, for these middle-men then becomes a defense of their own power by PROXY.
>>1879813Probably because they get into power and immediately start butchering and or starving the people on a mass scale. What are you even doing anymore? The map has been laid out for a while now, and the world is under capitalist forces. Even the “communist” countries partake. Up next is accelerating capitalism.
>>1879813Why would they think it would benefit them? No-one moves to communist countries. Neither Cuba, Best Korea, China, nor Vietnam had mass immigration of people to those countries, everyone moves to the most capitalist countries on the planet. We have illrgal immigration from those countries to ours, because they suck.
>>1879813Its mostly that all that the masses know about communism is liberal propaganda. But as we can see misery continues under capitalism and new communist pop up everywhere where there is access to information. It never ends even if you kill 500 000 communists in Germany there still will be more communists in the next generation.
>>1879818You’ve got it backwards, communism isn’t unpopular because most commies are weirdos, most commies are weirdos because communism is unpopular
>>1879941Getting more ex-natsees and incels won’t help things, we need less freaks proportionally, not more
I'm white. I'd be executed.
>>1896210Why, to win a bourgeois election?
Communism would materially benefit everyone, but there are lots of people that a) don't care about helping anyone but themselves and/or b) people that benefit from the status quo in other ways.
Like you've got the Chicago coal strike that failed in part because you had anti-black racism on the part of the unions, but then you had black ministers actively working against it because strong anti-racist social institutions like unions would actively undermine their social positions and community power.
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