/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2219821
>The US is not an official occupied state of Israel, our politicians are just Zionists willingly!
Wow! This is like if all politicians switched voluntarily to being Nazis and weren't kicked out instead until only Nazis were left! It makes me feel so much better! Thank you Biden webm poster.

>>2219330
>I hope all of you who voted for Trump (or didn’t vote at all) on the basis that “Harris is worse” or “there are no differences between them” can go to sleep easy now. Trump was never a “peace guy” and was always in-bed with the Zionist entity’s far-right.

So is Harris or Biden. What happened under Trump would happen under Harris. It is the will of urling class and they all are subordinate to it.

>>2220031
and you support it

Can’t wait for /pol/aks to be sent to the Bukeke Supermax for casually discussing the JQ.

>>2220069
>Tankoids continuing to justify voting for Trump months later
Just say you want nighurs, spics, jews, muslims, and muhgrants in a death camp and move the fuck on already, nobody cares about your cope anymore

>>2220100
where did he justify voting for trump

>>2220031
You clearly don’t know your history. This is all starts and ends with you. The antisemites, the keepers of capital, the useful bigots and their masters are the banes that created Israel, and are the ones who put us on current path to total ruination.

>>2219821
>it's not occupation
ok so the american people are responsible for this and should be punished for their actions?
>n-no the government doesn't act on o-our behalf…
so it's occupation? zog IS real after all?

the servants of capital to distract from the real movements active in the world. What is real is the class war, and the pro capital actors who seek to divide and destroy the proletariat.

>>2220137
and?

>>2220125
>>2220137
It isn’t real. Zog is nothing more than a foolish, ill thought out concept that was implanted into the rotted minds of pro capital minions. The same forces that genocided natives, enslaved and destroyed Africans, raped the world in name of capital, and commissioned death squads for oppressive fruit companies are the same forces that directly created Israel.

Israel is a creation made by the forces of capital first and foremost. Any actual Jewish hands in the project is merely just another case of the empire loving to wear stolen faces.

And it does not matter if it predates nazism. They are compatible because they come from the same cloth.

Israel is an extension of American imperialism, although one that is far more blatantly fascistic. America doesn't kneel to Israel, rather, America needs Israel to keep its firm control over the Middle East and indeed most of Africa.

nope still not gonna vote

>>2220146
>ascribing the shitty elements of liberalism to """fascism"""
netanyahu is a liberal

>>2220149
KSA, Israel. Same thing. America defends these states purely for money and material gain, and in exchange looks the other way when the Saudis defend Wahabism and the Israelis fight their war of conquest against the Palestinians. These ideologies, Wahabism and Zionism, are completely opposed to one another. Yet here they are.
>>2220150
Yes that’s what I said.

The correct take is that both Nazism and Zionism are fascist, nationalist ideologies which extensively collaborated with each other both before and during the war.

Zionism is nothing more than Ashkenazi fascism. Many of it's most influential figures (including a former Zionist PM) openly took up arms in support of Hitler and viewed him as an ally due to his fight against the British.

For one, Hitler didn't really start mass murdering Jews until later in the war, but also Hitler was mass murdering the Jews that the Herzlites hated and viewed as subhuman "mauschel" that all deserved to die.

>>2220137
Nah

>>2219985
Not disconnected at all.
Israeli grifters yes, train US police, but that is because they are grifters who have massive marketing push behind Krav Maga, which was designed to crush Palestinians, and is useful for a jackboot police force to know.
Israel is not close to the US military establishment at all. It doesn't host US troops, it doesn't host US supplies. It has a long history of selling top US secrets and equipment to the Russians and Chinese (2022 at latest caught), it is only considered a Tier-2 partner in the CHIPs act putting it on the level of Russian and Chinese allies. Mossad is despised by US intelligence officials and actively has a borderline hostile relationship with US intelligence if you believe various ex-CIA and US intelligence and US-Israel Embassy officials who have spoken openly (and shittalked) about Mossad. I mean, Mossad literally went into the US embassy during the US Ambassadors party, clogged up the toilets, shit in all of them, then flushed them so they overflowed just as a "haha fuck you".
Either way the "DUUUR ITS JUST A US OUTPOST" makes NO FUCKING SENSE.
If that was the case, then AIPAC and all the influence operations would be the other way around. It would be the US constantly trying to keep Israel and Israelis in line, not Israel trying to keep US and the West in line. The US doesn't give a single iota of a flying fuck when people shit on the CIA and FBI, but suddenly care so much about Mossad and Israel? What? How does that make any sense.
The right were correct on this one, It's ZOG. All the evidence points to a Zionist occupied Government, a legitimate fifth column through the entire Western Establishment aimed at keeping THE WEST in line with Israeli interests.
I mean, the fact you can be deported for criticizing Israel in now numerous Western countries (some with barely any relations with Israel at all) yet you wouldn't get deported for even criticising that Government, is evidence enough.
What reason does fucking New Zealand have to literally rip and tear through their own citizens rights on behalf of Israel? Is Israel a New Zealand military outpost as well? No, it's because the Government is stacked with bought off Politicians with millions in Israeli and elite business Jewish cash and Jews using their considerable media influence to dictate politicial discourse on the subject.
The sheer copium Leftists go to not call out the reality that yes, the Jewish community are pathologically pro-Israel and use their insane wealth and influence to benefit Israel, is honestly wild. No actually, we are fucking over our own citizens, rights, foreign policy position, because Israel is somehow a US outpost, despite not actually working with the US military on fucking anything while Arab countries are packed full of US military bases and Qatar being literally where FUCKING CENTCOM IS BASED.
"Nah Israel is still an US outpost because ??? reasons"

>>2220819
I don't want to get into conspiracy theories, but it seem that nobody is allowed to exist in the public administration or Hollywood without giving a blind support to Israel.

>>2220819
>>2220832
>"Nah because reasons"
No, it's because people read books. Two countries can symbiotically be tied to each other, and necessitate both involving themselves in the affairs of each other to ensure things stay the way they are and don't deviate from that. The US absolutely involves itself in Israel, with sides in the government revolving around how "conservative" of an establishment to support. If it was just support with no attempt at influencing Israel's political system, Israel would have done a lot more a log time ago. With the exception of the "Palestinian question", there is very little Israel does without consultation with and permission from the US. Even the presidency of Netanyahu is a controversial issue, with democrats in the US under Biden having a conniption about Israel effectively "pushing for genocide too fast", and supporting protests and influencing media pieces against him. I don't like Biden in the slightest, but if you payed attention, the administration was constantly trying to keep Israel "in line" with regional goals, and not deviate into what eventually happened. They are still pro-israel, but there is a "kind" of Israel they want to see. And aipac isn't even the top 200 of lobbying dollars, support is given irregardless, which points to a strategic weighing of it. The only reason Israel also has the influence it does globally is western US backing and soft power.

>>2219330
I'm here because 4chan is down

>>2219821
It would mean that the vassal state controls the media and parliament in the hegemon country therefore it doesn't make sense. You can get deported for criticizing the vassal but the vassal can shit on the hegemon. Imagine if during British occupation of India all the British cultural outlets were owned by Indians, the parliament was fully controlled by BIPAC, the British covered up India's attack on HMS Freedom and so on. And India is like 20x larger than the UK. You make no sense denying ZOG.(Rule 12 - low-quality reactionary content)

>>2224030
read Marx

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/

Why? Explains exploitation in simple terms: "Why do workers stay poor while bosses get rich?"

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/

Why? Debunks the myth "If workers demand higher wages, prices will rise!" in plain language.

>>2219821
They are actually both run by capitalists that keep both countries close in case their interests need to be protected

>>2224038
NTA but I don't need to worship that fatass in order to know both of those facts. I won't engage with anything that requires accelerating or a "revolution". I've seen many get happy that people's lives are getting worse because it promotes their ideology. That's ideology for the sake of ideology, it's perverse. It is the leading theme on this website. I'd rather engage with what I have in front of me and around me, everything else is futile and even harmful.

>>2224116
>everything else is futile and even harmful.
you decided at random because it makes you feel good (realistic or mature even! lmao). come back when you are ready to actually use your brain

>>2224037
which is a conspiracy theory. the media in the us is privately owned, and I don't know if you have noticed but media conglomerates are very expensive, which means they are owned exclusively by people with large amounts of capital that can afford to buy them. in the us the vast majority of these people are wasp, with some minorities here and there. they support israel because it benefits their material interests regardless of any religious pretext, it is the cornerstone of the western world order that has made them their fortunes. the cornerstone is imperialist violence in general but israel is the most clear example

>>2224124

lol go to hell russian saboteur apologist

>>2224124
lol go to hell k-eye-k apologist

>>2224118
you are a cultist and you don't know it. Your vision is very narrow, nobody can fully take off the glasses of ideology, but you're denying the glasses are even there. Ideologies are the spoils that are reaped after people deal with social, cultural, political circumstances. We try to rationalize and generalize so much that we forget what came first. Every day on this website there are people constantly bickering about what exact characteristic their ideology's God gave to various aspects of their religion, mostly things that aren't relevant to their current reality at all. Ideology for the sake of ideology. Anyway, we are detailing this thread let's agree to disagree.

>>2224037
>(Rule 12 - low-quality reactionary content)
The true sign of a unimpeachably correct and based post.

>>2224040
Pathetic post

>>2219337
>>2219344
Thanks to legal political donations the US is for sale and Israel brought it, it was only a matter of time but for Trump he's all about helping a corrupt war criminal so Bibi being in charge helped Israel's case.

>>2219417
revisionism and unfunny

>>2220146
> America doesn't kneel to Israel
No it gives Bibi 45 minute standing ovations and $40 billion annually. Retard

>>2219985
> Israel actively trains US police officers.
For tremendous amounts of money, because every cop and soldier in America is brainwashed into thinking Israelis are the best at war and oppression. Meanwhile, every fbi agent gets antisemitism training from the ADL.

>>2219907
We can share zog and acab komerad.

True.

>>2219330
>reactionaries get their guy in office
>immediately becomes even more of a stooge for israel
How long until we start seeing some suicides?

>>2243933
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-resolution/1449/all-actions
But anti-zionism was criminalized under biden
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-resolution/894/text
Whereas, on November 15, 2023, anti-Israel protesters illegally blocked and violently attacked the Democratic National Committee headquarters, endangering the lives of individuals inside, including Members of Congress, and injuring 6 Capitol Police Officers; Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That the House of Representatives—

(1) strongly condemns and denounces all instances of antisemitism occurring in the United States and globally;

(2) reaffirms and reiterates its strong support for the Jewish community at home and abroad;

(3) calls on elected officials and world leaders to condemn and fight all forms of domestic and global antisemitism;

(4) clearly and firmly states that anti-Zionism is antisemitism; and

(5) rejects all forms of terror, hate, discrimination, and harassment of members of the Jewish community.

>>2243941
How does this disprove what that anon said? Are you denying that Trump gave even more go ahead to Israel upon coming into office? Also, that isn't a law, that's a resolution that was passed by the Republican controlled House. I know a lot of anons here aren't good with US politics, but resolutions like that are basically symbolic gestures, they aren't laws or passing laws. They are bad precedent through, because they can create the rhetoric that can later be used to support the passing of a later law.

>>2219330
I'm not a clap but I'm forced to pay attention to clap politics because we are downstream of it.
In 2016 I would have voted Trump because Clinton status quo isn't going to fix anything, by 2018 I realized Trump was worse than Clinton could ever be and sure as shit wouldn't have voted for him in 2024.
At the end of the day Bernie would have won but the Dems would rather lose than let someone that will tax their donors win.

>>2219984
"Stalinism" is a meme concept invented by Trotsky

>>2277306
It's simply more accurate than "marxist leninist"

>>2277313
The real reason so much anti-socialist political discourse focuses on "muh Stalin, muh six million Ukrainian aryan babies dead" is because the USSR under Stalin is one of the most successful socialist periods in history, which terrifies porkies

>>2219330
>I hope all of you who voted for Trump (or didn’t vote at all) on the basis that “Harris is worse” or “there are no differences between them” can go to sleep easy now.

I'm not an american, but let's not act as if Harris- an extension of the Biden administration was going to be respectable of the right to criticise Israel.

The USA has historically clamped, censored, co-opted and slandered any movement that may challenge its hegemony, particularly on its own citizens. Come on OP, surely you're aware of COINTELPRO, MK Ultra, McCarthyism, the red scare etc.
These were all overseen by democrat and republican alike. Regardless of the president, both democrats and republicans will support Israel's right to exist.

Hell, even Bernie Sanders, arguably the more progressive of the democrats, has towed the liberal zionist line. If he's anything to go off of, Harris would have likely followed suit should she have gotten to power- but instead when she was confronted on her complacency with genocide Joe's policies, she pulled a "uhm I have the mic, im talking" move.

>>2219330
I despise you Social Democrats.
The Dems would have done the exact same. No, saying "oooh I'm gonna voooote!" wouldn't change the outcome at all. Everything would be materially identical, in Palestine, in the economy, to a greater degree.
Nobody on the "left" is required to vote for your genocidal neoliberal party, in fact if they did I'd seriously doubt if they're leftist at all.

The fact that it was Trump who did this is even better.
Thank you Trump, the evil fascist psychopath, who increases the hatred for the capital class via his demonic actions!
What he and Musk and others do raises class based opposition to the system, increases awareness of how the state serves capital, it increases the hostility towards the Fascist regime.
The more repressive and evil Trump is, the more likely Amerifats are to actually get up and organise and eventually foment revolutionary action. If only it could happen sooner, and with less harm in the process of reaching that endpoint!

Furthermore there seems to be a secondary arguement in this thread about "state capitalism" and whether China or other such nations are socialist.
Please read Bordiga and also the Communization Theory works (I recommend Endnotes and early Dauvé) that elaborate on this.
There has never been a socialist society. None of your Marxist-Leninist states has ever, to this day, even made the very first most step towards establishing Socialism, by replacing a capitalist labour and economic model with a socialist one.
They only ever produce state capitalism with a degree of welfare.
This is because you all still maintain wage labour, the commodity form, and markets, and so on. How can you call yourself socialist while maintaining the core of capitalism?
Socialism requires the replacement of the capitalist economic systems with a new mode of economics. You need to destroy the market system, destroy money, perhaps not instantaneously, but you need to undertake this transition at the start of the socialist project, not at the end.
No ML state has ever even considered abolishing the capitalism economic system and creating a new socialist model for labour and exchange of services and goods.
The day Marxist-Leninists stop being childish and realise none of their projects will work until they immediately adopt socialist economies, rather than pushing such concepts off into the far distant future, with 1000 hypothetical steps of state capitalism to pass through before they are willing to contemplate such policies, the sooner they can rectify their mistakes.

>>2277330
>Thank you Trump, the evil fascist psychopath, who increases the hatred for the capital class via his demonic actions!
Trvke