why arent you just voting for communist parties every chance you get?
voter turn out is super low for local elections.
You want hollywood? just vote communist. for mayor, city council, governor, etc..
>>2240912I'm British
Not a single communist party stands in any election at level where I live
There is no communist party, there isn't even a democratic socialist (ewww) party here
The most left wing candidate ever to stand here was the Greens and they get like 8% of the vote at best
What communists do exists are either Trotskyist uni kid newspaper pushers who get burnt out and leave politics entirely after gradution, or are elderly boomers who still refuse to allow any LGBT people into their orgs
>>2243428The CPB sometimes stands, but (hilariously) they're worse than the Labour party. (and that's categorically
not an endorsement of Labour) They got a JK Rowling endorsement last election because one of their 10 point manifesto bullet points was a weasel-worded commitment to attack transgender people, an endorsement which they then lost because they made another weasel-worded statement saying it didn't mean that, but also that it did mean that.
In the end, they averaged 180-ish votes across the 14 seats they stood in, which puts them amongst the worst performing parties in the entire election. (Every party that got less votes also stood less candidates, and I believe only the Scottish Libertarians got less votes per candidate. The Scottish Libertarians are a total nonentity. They are one of those things you only discover exists when you try to answer a question like "did anyone underperform the CPB?") Maybe spineless bigotry's a vote loser, or maybe they're just as bad at campaigning as they are at drafting policy. Who's to say?
It's not that people are totally averse to helping lefty-LARPers keep their deposits by wasting their votes either: The Socialist Labour Party and TUSC, both perpetual "why did they bother?" machines, did much better.
>>2243506>transphobic Most workers are
>Israel has a right to "defend itself" from PalestiniansAll nations do
>>2243550poor bait
a large section of the proletariat holding objectively wrong views and hating minorities, in large part due to propaganda by bourgeois media outlets who scapegoat said minorities, does not make hating minorities the correct position
nations dont have the right to defend themselves from those they oppress, or in this case straight up colonise and genocide
go back to /liberalzionismpol/
>>22435501. Most trans people are working class
2. Israel, even by standards of international law, doesn't have a right to defend itself. It is an occupying force that is actively genociding an indigenous population.
>>2243605>>2243573Those committed to building the labor movement can't support the ideology that detaches social being from material reality. "Trans ideology" treats identity as an individual, subjective feeling, ignoring the material, biological basis of human existence and the historical development of gender roles tied to class society.
Liberation is grounded not in subjective idealism, but in the material transformation of social relations. Liberation of the working class comes through collective struggle, not through the denial of material reality.
>>2243605Israel is an occupying power in the West Bank and Gaza (Gaza technically governed by Hamas, but still under siege/blockade).
Israel is not committing a "genocide", there is no systematic extermination of the Palestinian people. The Palestinian population has grown steadily.
October 7th (Hamas-led attack) was an act led by a bourgeois clerical force (Hamas) with reactionary methods and aims. The Israeli state responded with overwhelming force against Gaza, but this war is driven by both bourgeois leaderships (Israeli and Hamas) against their own working classes. The Israeli working class does have the right to defend themselves from indiscriminate attacks (massacres of civilians, children, etc.), even if their government is reactionary.Both the Israeli capitalist rulers and Hamas’s bourgeois leadership trap the working class in endless war.
>>2243611>Those committed to building the labor movement can't support the ideology that detaches social being from material reality.The Material reality is that trans people have existed since the times of ancient history, we're not some "ideology"
https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1790/lgbtq-in-the-ancient-world/
<These same paradigms existed in virtually every other culture in the ancient world. In Thailand, a third gender, known as the Kathoey ("lady boys") have been recognized since the 14th century CE, although they almost certainly existed previously. In India the law code Manusmriti (c. 1250 BCE) treats same-sex and opposite-sex relationships equally, and both this work and the famous Kama Sutra (c. 400 BCE) reference a third gender known as the Kinnar (also known as Hijra). Both of these groups are marginalized in the present day, but there is nothing in the ancient texts that stigmatizes them and, unlike other cultures, no loss in status attached to a third gender playing a passive role.
<Native American tribes recognized a third gender known in the present day as a Two-Spirit who was both male and female. The ancient term for this gender has been lost, as many aspects of Native American language and culture were through the European colonization of the Americas, and so this is a modern designation. The Two-Spirit was greatly valued by the community and, as with the adherents of Inanna and Cybele, were thought to have been transformed from male to female by the gods. A boy who embarked on the vision quest rite of passage to manhood would be visited by a deity and shown who he truly was and, if chosen as a Two-Spirit, would return to his community and begin dressing as a woman and performing work associated with the female members of the tribe.
<Throughout Africa, there are a number of different designations for people identified and self-identifying as a third gender. Among these are the Ashtime who, like the Two-Spirit of the Americas, are men who identify as women and perform women’s traditional tasks. Many of these are married to men and, although marginalized today, just like the Kinnar and Kathoey, were recognized as divinely transformed beings in the ancient past.
>"Trans ideology" treats identity as an individual, subjective feeling, ignoring the material, biological basis of human existence and the historical development of gender roles tied to class society.Except your analysis of gender roles is routed in not only a-historic nonsense, but also on individual subjective feeling which ignores the material, biological basis of human existence and the historical development of gender roles tied to class society, ironically enough in a tradition stemmed from religious dominance of life and the enforcement of partriarchal norms.
https://marxismexplained.com/2022/03/13/marx-marxism-transgender-rights/That's not even getting into the idea of intersex people.
https://interaction.org.au/18106/what-is-intersex/ You are spouting outdated euro-centric pseudo-science and revisionist history to justify your transphobia- which is wild considering that most transphobic studies aren't even taken seriously by most reputable academics- particularly those in the west.
Spare me the bullshit.
It's also doubly embarassing that Cuba has better takes, positions and policies regarding trans people than you do, lol
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6293354/ >>2243630shalom, it's good to finally see the correct perspective is finally being spread here on leftypol.org
i'll be drinking some real sugar yellow cap coca cola to celebrate another victory for g-d's chosen, thank you zankaria and all the other mods for making this possible
>>2243630Twitter Left-KKKom or Hazoid.
Call it.
>>2243611You're throwing around buzzwords without considering what they mean. Since when is material reality consider
fixed? What is taking hormones if not changing the
material reality of the body?
You're abandoning the hard work of doing any kind of serious analysis (is it possible that changes in the nature of production and reproduction have lead to different attitudes towards LGBT people? No! It's all just spooky liberalism!! Make the bad-idea people go away and their bad social categories will disappear too! I am not an idealist!!) because you want to play contrarian. It doesn't impress anybody.
>>2243550Thats what intersectionality has brought you westoid morons, trans discourse polluting and splitting every remotely left movement.
You will be a LGBTQ flag, BLM fist raiser, corporate HRmanager liberal AND YOU WILL LIKE IT, KKKOMRADE
>>2243506Oh so TIL that CPB and CPGB of harpal and jyoti brar are not the same lol
They both dont like trans and are both against eurocommunism revisionism, why the fuck dont they just merge
>>2244245oh that's nice
but I also see CPG releasing statements about solidarity with Palestine and the need to step up the BDS movement
Im confused?!
>>2244230being pro-trans only alienates the kind of people you don't want on your side anyway. this is true even for non-leftist or marginally-lefty causes. look at scottish nationalism: basically unified until boomers caught the anti-trans brainworms of the british press. Now people who used to be diehard nationalists talk about how they'll vote for the far right (or in one seat, the unionist, zionist ""Communist"" party, following the endorsement of JK Rowling, a Blairite who bankrolled the anti-independence movement) to fight transgenderism.
It's not that the SNP grabbed some radical piece of Tumblr social liberalism either: in 2017, all major parties endorsed reforming the GRA, the reform that ultimately split the SNP and lead to the first ever recorded veto of a Scottish Parliament law. (Naturally, transphobic "nationalists" endorsed this. England telling Scotland what to do and the Supreme court declaring Scotland's not a real country is all fine, so long as it's in service of anti-transgender policymaking.)
full-time transphobes are fundamentally liabilities to any cause. they will put hurting transgender people above your cause. will individual trans people abandon your cause if you're anti-trans? yeah, sure they will, they'll flake off and leave, just like you would leave my org if i said a fundamental part of communism was kicking you, specifically, in the dick. it makes sense that people care about you attacking them directly: it makes much less sense that people should get worked up that you're opposed to attacking an irrelevant minority. if people will throw away their careers as famous writers or members of parliament just to attack a minority, you can be damn sure they'll throw away a minor communist org's credibility too.
>>2244284wokism is the greatest glowop ever
the trans apostles entered every space and took a big steamy shit
to think so much about transgenders is truly a sign that one's life is very comfortable and all socio-economic issues can wait until the complete approval of the Trans Overlords has not been obtained (which is never because they live for the drama)
>>2244308lack of concern for socioeconomic issues is correlated with transphobia, not with pro-trans attitudes or with being trans.
(if you want to be clever, this is mostly because of age. young people are poor and pro-trans, old people are richer and anti-trans.)
e-stalk a transgender person who isn't an e-celeb for 15 minutes and you'll invariably find them whining they can't make rent.
this even ties neatly in to my specific, historical, UK-electoral example: you can track in real time as the Labour party went from a pro-trans, socdem/demsoc (argue amongst yourselves, children) party under Corbyn to an anti-trans "neoliberalism would be better than this" party under Starmer.
(isn't it odd that i
have a specific historical example i can point to and work through, while all you can say is that trans people ruined "spaces", as though "spaces" isn't a corporate non-word signifying nothing? sure, transphobes may govern the leading powers of NATO, but have no fear, le transhumanists have conquered
spaces!)
>>2285191Yeah this is something one also needs to consider.
You have countries like Germany and the US that have effectively outlawed communist organizing in public.
For the former, it's against the law to be a party that's openly communist because they have an extremist law that indulges in a both-sides fallacy which falsely equates nazism and communism as the same side of the extremist coin.
And for the latter, there's the Communist Control Act of 1954 which banned the CPUSA at a time where it still had teeth and wasn't a front for dems that's chock full of feds and also criminalizes being a member of a communist party or supporting one on top of that.
>>2285199 (me)
anti-extremist*
This is why I should probably wait until I'm fully awake to post anything on here lol.
>>2240912>>2285196I always vote for communists in my country even though they have no chance of winning because it is a duty to destabilize the bourgeois state with propaganda for nationalizations and everything that irritates the boot-licking middle class co-opted by financial capital. Marx, Engels and Lenin all say that the revolutionary party of the proletariat must be independent of the bourgeoisie and even with mistakes you must act to count your forces in the future to maintain the independence of the working class instead of being co-opted by the bourgeoisie or falling into abstentionist apathy in the bourgeois election, hence the need to vote for communists until the conditions for a revolutionary situation appear.
Now let's start with the quotes:
<Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels , "Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League"https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm
<The first great step of importance for every country newly entering into the movement is always the organization of the workers as an independent political party, no matter how, so long as it is a distinct workers' party. And this step has been taken, far more quickly than we had a right to hope, and that is the main thing. That the first program of this party is still confused and highly deficient, that it has set up the banner of Henry George, these are inevitable evils but also only transient ones. The masses must have time and opportunity to develop and they can only have the opportunity when they have their own movement–no matter in what form so long as it is only their own movement–in which they are driven further by their own mistakes and learn wisdom by hurting themselves.
<Frederick Engels, “Letters: Marx-Engels Correspondence 1886,” Marxists Internet Archive, Engels to Friedrich Adolph Sorge In Hoboken.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1886/letters/86_11_29.htm
<Complete abstention from political action is impossible. The abstentionist press participates in politics every day. It is only a question of how one does it, and of what politics one engages in. For the rest, to us abstention is impossible. The working-class party functions as a political party in most countries by now, and it is not for us to ruin it by preaching abstention. Living experience, the political oppression of the existing governments compels the workers to occupy themselves with politics whether they like it or not, be it for political or for social goals. To preach abstention to them is to throw them into the embrace of bourgeois politics. The morning after the Paris Commune, which has made proletarian political action an order of the day, abstention is entirely out of the question.
<We want the abolition of classes. What is the means of achieving it? The only means is political domination of the proletariat. For all this, now that it is acknowledged by one and all, we are told not to meddle with politics. The abstentionists say they are revolutionaries, even revolutionaries par excellence. Yet revolution is a supreme political act and those who want revolution must also want the means of achieving it, that is, political action, which prepares the ground for revolution and provides the workers with the revolutionary training without which they are sure to become the dupes of the Favres and Pyats the morning after the battle. However, our politics must be working-class politics. The workers' party must never be the tagtail of any bourgeois party; it must be independent and have its goal and its own policy.
<The political freedoms, the right of assembly and association, and the freedom of the press — those are our weapons. Are we to sit back and abstain while somebody tries to rob us of them? It is said that a political act on our part implies that we accept the exiting state of affairs. On the contrary, so long as this state of affairs offers us the means of protesting against it, our use of these means does not signify that we recognise the prevailing order.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, "Apropos Of Working-Class Political Action".https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/09/21.htmI suggest reading Lenin's text called "Left-Wing" Communism: an Infantile Disorder and go to the part written "Should We Participate in Bourgeois Parliaments?" to see that the Bolsheviks also have the same opinion as I said. Here is the link to the text:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch07.htm >>2285591Revolutionary propaganda with slogans of nationalization, collectivization, occupations and socialization exists as effective propaganda to destabilize the bourgeois state in order to abolish private property in the dictatorship of the proletariat. Another useful slogan is the guarantee of public employment, equalization of wages to avoid betrayals in unions and to unite workers from other sectors.
Let's look at four quotes that prove my point:
<The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.
<Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production.
<These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.
<Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
<Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
<A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
<Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
<Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
<Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
<Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
<Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
<Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
<Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
<Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c.
<When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organised power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organise itself as a class, if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class.
<In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, Manifesto of the Communist Party (1848)https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm
<Democracy would be wholly valueless to the proletariat if it were not immediately used as a means for putting through measures directed against private property and ensuring the livelihood of the proletariat. The main measures, emerging as the necessary result of existing relations, are the following:
<(i) Limitation of private property through progressive taxation, heavy inheritance taxes, abolition of inheritance through collateral lines (brothers, nephews, etc.) forced loans, etc.
<(ii) Gradual expropriation of landowners, industrialists, railroad magnates and shipowners, partly through competition by state industry, partly directly through compensation in the form of bonds.
<(iii) Confiscation of the possessions of all emigrants and rebels against the majority of the people.
<(iv) Organization of labor or employment of proletarians on publicly owned land, in factories and workshops, with competition among the workers being abolished and with the factory owners, in so far as they still exist, being obliged to pay the same high wages as those paid by the state.
<(v) An equal obligation on all members of society to work until such time as private property has been completely abolished. Formation of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
<(vi) Centralization of money and credit in the hands of the state through a national bank with state capital, and the suppression of all private banks and bankers.
<(vii) Increase in the number of national factories, workshops, railroads, ships; bringing new lands into cultivation and improvement of land already under cultivation – all in proportion to the growth of the capital and labor force at the disposal of the nation.
<(viii) Education of all children, from the moment they can leave their mother’s care, in national establishments at national cost. Education and production together.
<(ix) Construction, on public lands, of great palaces as communal dwellings for associated groups of citizens engaged in both industry and agriculture and combining in their way of life the advantages of urban and rural conditions while avoiding the one-sidedness and drawbacks of each.
<(x) Destruction of all unhealthy and jerry-built dwellings in urban districts.
<(xi) Equal inheritance rights for children born in and out of wedlock.
<(xii) Concentration of all means of transportation in the hands of the nation.
<It is impossible, of course, to carry out all these measures at once. But one will always bring others in its wake. Once the first radical attack on private property has been launched, the proletariat will find itself forced to go ever further, to concentrate increasingly in the hands of the state all capital, all agriculture, all transport, all trade. All the foregoing measures are directed to this end; and they will become practicable and feasible, capable of producing their centralizing effects to precisely the degree that the proletariat, through its labor, multiplies the country’s productive forces.
<Finally, when all capital, all production, all exchange have been brought together in the hands of the nation, private property will disappear of its own accord, money will become superfluous, and production will so expand and man so change that society will be able to slough off whatever of its old economic habits may remain.
<Frederick Engels, 1847, The Principles of Communismhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm
<1. The whole of Germany shall be declared a united, indivisible republic.
<2. Every German who is 21 years old shall be a voter and be eligible for election, assuming he has not been sentenced for a criminal offence.
<3. Representatives of the people shall be paid so that workers may also sit in the parliament of the German people.
<4. Universal arming of the people. In future armies shall at the same time be workers’ armies so that the armed forces will not only consume, as in the past, but produce even more than it costs to maintain them.
<In addition, these shall be a means of organising work
<5. Maintenance of justice shall be free of charge.
<6. All feudal burdens, all fees, labour services, tithes etc. which have previously oppressed the peasantry shall be abolished without any compensation.
<7. All baronial and other feudal estates, all mines, pits etc. shall be converted into state property. On these estates agriculture shall be practised on a large scale and with the most modern scientific tools for the benefit of all.
<8. The mortgages on peasant farms shall be declared state property. The interest for these mortgages shall be paid by the peasants to the state.
<9. In the areas where leasing has developed the ground rent or lease payment shall be paid to the state as a tax.
<All these measures specified under 6, 7, 8 and 9 will be composed in order to minimise public and other burdens of the peasants and small leaseholders without reducing the means necessary to cover public expenses and without endangering production itself.
<10. All private banks will be replaced by a state bank whose bonds will have the character of legal tender.
<This measure will make it possible to regulate credit in the interests of the whole people and will thus undermine the dominance of the large financiers. By gradually replacing gold and silver by paper money, it will cheapen the indispensable instrument of bourgeois trade, the universal means of exchange, and will allow the gold and silver to have an outward effect. Ultimately, this measure is necessary to link the interests of the conservative bourgeoisie to the revolution.
<11. All means of transport: railways, canals, steamships, roads, posts etc. shall be taken in hand by the state. They shall be converted into state property and made available free of charge to the class without financial resources.
<12. In the remuneration of all civil servants there shall be no difference except that those with a family, i.e. with greater needs, shall also receive a larger salary than the others.
<13. Complete separation of church and state. The clergy of all denominations shall only be paid by their own voluntary congregations.
<14. Limitation of inheritance.
<15. Introduction of strongly progressive taxes and abolition of taxes on consumption.
<16. Establishment of national workshops. The state shall guarantee the livelihood of all workers and provide for those unable to work.
<17. Universal free education of the people.
<It is in the interests of the German proletariat, the petty bourgeoisie and the peasantry to work with all their might to implement the above measures. Because it is only through the realisation of these that the millions who have until now been exploited by a small number in Germany and whose exploiters will attempt keep them in subjection will attain their rights and that power owed to them as the creators of all wealth.
<Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, March 1848, Demands of the Communist Party in Germanyhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/03/24.htm
<Considering,
<That this collective appropriation can arise only from the revolutionary action of the productive class – or proletariat - organized in a distinct political party;
<That a such an organization must be pursued by all the means the proletariat has at its disposal including universal suffrage which will thus be transformed from the instrument of deception that it has been until now into an instrument of emancipation;
<The French socialist workers, in adopting as the aim of their efforts the political and economic expropriation of the capitalist class and the return to community of all the means of production, have decided, as a means of organization and struggle, to enter the elections with the following immediate demands:
<A. Political Section[NB2]
<1. Abolition of all laws over the press, meetings and associations and above all the law against the International Working Men's Association. Removal of the livret, [6] that administrative control over the working class, and of all the articles of the Code [7] establishing the inferiority of the worker in relation to the boss, and of woman in relation to man;
<2. Removal of the budget of the religious orders and the return to the nation of the 'goods said to be mortmain, movable and immovable' (decree by the Commune of 2 April 1871), including all the industrial and commercial annexes of these corporations;
<3. Suppression of the public debt;
<4. Abolition of standing armies and the general arming of the people;
<5. The Commune to be master of its administration and its police.
<B. Economic Section
<1. One rest day each week or legal ban on employers imposing work more than six days out of seven. - Legal reduction of the working day to eight hours for adults. - A ban on children under fourteen years working in private workshops; and, between fourteen and sixteen years, reduction of the working day from eight to six hours;
<2. Protective supervision of apprentices by the workers' organizations;
<3. Legal minimum wage, determined each year according to the local price of food, by a workers' statistical commission;
<4. Legal prohibition of bosses employing foreign workers at a wage less than that of French workers;
<5. Equal pay for equal work, for workers of both sexes;
<6. Scientific and professional instruction of all children, with their maintenance the responsibility of society, represented by the state and the Commune;
<7. Responsibility of society for the old and the disabled;
<8. Prohibition of all interference by employers in the administration of workers' friendly societies, provident societies, etc., which are returned to the exclusive control of the workers;
<9. Responsibility of the bosses in the matter of accidents, guaranteed by a security paid by the employer into the workers' funds, and in proportion to the number of workers employed and the danger that the industry presents;
<10. Intervention by the workers in the special regulations of the various workshops; an end to the right usurped by the bosses to impose any penalty on their workers in the form of fines or withholding of wages (decree by the Commune of 27 April 1871);
<11. Annulment of all the contracts that have alienated public property (banks, railways, mines, etc.), and the exploitation of all state-owned workshops to be entrusted to the workers who work there;
<12. Abolition of all indirect taxes and transformation of all direct taxes into a progressive tax on incomes over 3,000 francs. Suppression of all inheritance on a collateral line [8] and of all direct inheritance over 20,000 francs.
< Karl Marx and Jules Guesde, 1880, The Programme of the Parti Ouvrierhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/05/parti-ouvrier.htm >>2240912>why arent you just voting for communist parties every chance you get?voooooting doen't matter:
-parties win through media consensus
-media are controlled by billionaires
-parties need to be bankrolled by capitalists for ad space etc
also
-fishing for votes will transform revolutionary parties into demsoc reformists
no thanks
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