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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


 

Is there any leftist thinker\progressive, left-liberal etc today who, at face value and unironically; defends the IMPOSSIBLE to defend such as: the Kinsey report, margaret sanger, Dr John Money\ Trans ideology, surgeries included, Frankfurt school Gramsci, Weimar Republic, etc?
do common people shy away from this, to appeal to real-human working class people? does anyone REALLY take a serious clinical\academic\professional and real, interest in critical race theory, third of fourth wave feminism, Queer Theory or mixes of all this; mishmashes? (eco-feminism, Critical Animal Studies, Prison Abolishment movement, etc)?

There is a poster here who defends sayyid qutb with screeds of essays a radical islamist who inspired many modern terrorist. He uses the name glownonymous

the frankfurt school and gramsci have nothing to do with the rest of that. in fact, many conservatives would even appreciate many points made in "one-dimensional man" and "the dialectic of enlightenment".

>>2241129
I don't have to justify myself but I was giving a blanket list of examples.

File: 1745589365403.jpg (134.39 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault.jpg)

>>2241130
you are inherently comparing them though
this is like when people blame freud for the sexual revolution even though freud was a conservative who saw repression as necessary for civilisation - this is why left-wing critics of freud see his libidinal economy tied to capitalist structures, rather than possessing revolutionary transgression. of course, in the dialectic of enlightenment, horkheimer and adorno already saw in the figure of marquis de sade the seeds of the third reich, where transgression becomes conformity to a tyrannical master. this was also lacan's conservative critique of the new left; that they are only in search of a new master. think of it like how st. paul says that we are either slaves to God or slaves to sin. you gotta serve something - thats the error of revolutionary enthusiasm.

>defends the IMPOSSIBLE to defend such as
<Kinsey Reports
This just seems like an early attempt at trying to collect data by self-report, during a time where it was really hard to get people to self-report.
<Dr John Money\ Trans ideology
These aren't really synonymous
<Frankfurt school Gramsci
I don't understand, this isn't some extreme figure. When someone say "Impossible to defend", I would expect them to mention someone like Pol Pot, not the most basic of Marxist philosophers (whether you agree with him or not). Why mention the Frankfurt school here as well? Did you mean the Frankfurt schools interpretation of Gramsci, or Gramsci himself?
>to appeal
Never do this if you have even a single principle in your body; you'll always end up watering down your positions to the point you are practically adopting a new one.
>critical race theory, third of fourth wave feminism, Queer Theory or mixes of all this; mishmashes? (eco-feminism, Critical Animal Studies,
This sounds like a mess of things to mention, what are you trying to communicate with this?
>Prison Abolishment movement
You're on a largely communist board, and you're presenting being against capitalist prisons as being an impossible to defend thing?

>>2241168
Which communist country did not have prisons?

>>2241168
hmm? are you taking issues with my post, EH?
I don't owe you a justification.
>inb4 bad behaviour
yes, FUCK RULES, HAIL FREE WILL..I do as I please, and I post as I PLEASE

>>2241170
Gulags are dumb. Just shoot them.

>>2241177
It's just not very conducive to discussion if you post some bullshit with no explanation and then your only replies are "I don't have to explain myself." You seem like a chud.

>>2241179
>>2241170
>not celebrating Lumpen Criminality, Gang culture, Street life\homeless drug addict life\ decay and chaos
i HATE fashion m*dels, and no m*del would live in a shanty town built on top of a sewer..which do exist. so I SUPPORT celebrating, and maintaining and enforcing, making the whole country live in the most horrible material conditions.
I would sacrifice humanity's well-being to make rich pretty girls suffer
>>2241184
yeah, what gives? what you gonna DO? I did something…you wanna stop me? use force, otherwise you're weak. might makes right. or left.

>>2241170
I don't believe prison abolitionists are in favor of getting rid of "prisons" (or more specifically, places to hold prisoners) in of themselves, just getting rid of the modern prison system. It's the same thing as a abolishing the police; they aren't saying that there should be no means or methods of enforcing rules or laws, just that the police as a modern capitalist institution shouldn't exist.

>>2241191
I AM in favour of abolishing methods of enforcing rules or laws.

>>2241191
its not called prison reform, it called prison abolition
wake up

nutjob thread

>>2241124
Glownonymous is the name given to anyone who posts via the leftypol onion domain. It's not just one person.

>>2241220
COPE, this is the absolute avant garde type of thread, you're too low I.Q to fully understand.

>>2241168

"This just seems like an early attempt at trying to collect data by self-report, during a time where it was really hard to get people to self-report"

Anon, when you have free time and are in a solid psychological state, brace yourself and look up table 34.

Kino thread

File: 1745619726570.jpg (112.25 KB, 567x709, oTd2VYSqzh0.jpg)

>>2241122
christian moralist faggot

>guy who hasn't read any of the shit he's crying about makes a thread to complain about it
You're one step away from saying "cultural marxism" go back to your safe space, it's up again.

>>2241122
>Frankfurt school Gramsci
You're using these words like a right-wing shibboleth intended to communicate something spooky, obscure but definitely nefarious and communist to uneducated people.


>>2241974
comic is good parenting tbh

>>2241976

And the great thing about capitalism is Hugh Hefner read Kinsey after his betrothed left him and decided to found playboy and accelerated the development of the modern porn industry.

A hortor like Kinsey surely could have existed in the USSR and, especially in its revisionist decline phase,ay have even survived in academia. MAYBE.

But a whole industry accelerating on the basis of his "research". Structurally mpossible even under kosygin-liberman degenerated socialism.

>>2241986
well a whole industry certainly could decelerate based on a man's "research", see. Lysenko

actually Lysenko is a good example of "the undefendable" on the left, and I think I recall someone defending him and his research on fullchan /leftypol/ way back
others of the type I recall seeing (trying to avoid obvious shitposts/baits):
pol pot
beria (and other stalin-era horrors)
great leap
north korea's "hereditary republicanism" (the /dprk/ anon was actually quite knowledgeable and I learned a lot even though it was clearly apologetia rather than a scientific approach)
sendero luminoso

>>2241692
>>2241976
it honestly looks like a right wing myth constructed in the 1990s, since i can find no independent source that is alleging he sexually assaulted young children for his research

File: 1745632881469.png (48.76 KB, 948x155, thinkingemoji.png)

>>2242030
good catch; the supposed source of "table 34" >>2241976 here is a text on the homosexual - heterosexual scale and doesn't have anything to do with "multiple orgasm in pre-adolescent males"
also the uploader's username really makes me think

>>2241168
>putting violent psychopath, rapist and unhinged predator pedophiles away from society is LE BAD!

You can't defend this type of thinking with a straight face, is either a bad faithed troll or just plain mentally ill.

>>2242224
Just shoot them. Why waste resources giving them three square meals a day?

>>2242219
about what you'd expect, i found this https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/42894/did-alfred-kinsey-sexually-abuse-children-for-his-studies
which went a bit into it and the claim first appeared in the 90s under right wing christian publications, and has only the slimmest basis in fact, in fact i went to the book and i did not find the table used on wikimedia, what actually was in the book was a table sourced from interviews with adult men on the subject

>>2242030
>>2242219

I actually bought the book "Sexual behaviour in the human male" a first edition copy precisely to verify this claim, because is so horrific I couldn't believe it when I first heard it.

Here are pictures I just took from it, with me signing & dating.

>>2242284

Cont. Pictures

>>2242286

Quote: "[…] together with records supplied BY SOME OLDER SUBJECTS WHO HAVE HAD SEXUAL CONTACT WITH YOUNGER BOYS [..]"

a revolutionary theory divorced from revolution makes people schizo who eoukd of thought

>>2242289

Pages 160-161 & 178-180

>>2242289

Just to be clear: Kinsey himself does not claim he did these experiments, but that someone else was molesting children and supplied him this data.

Judith Reisman if memory he got the dats from a Nazi who was doing molesting during WWII, but I have not myself investigated enough to confirm this claim.

>>2242299

*if memory serves claims Kinsey got the data from a Nazi

Now I have take a break because this stuff makes me really sick. I haven't even been able to read Kinsey's book in full despite having it for several years, because it is in fact, that horrific.




>>2241995
>>2242011

I am even going to give an extensive on this Yugoslav anon. Ots not the thread for it.

Suffice to say Stalin was nowhere near the totalitarian mass killer he needed to be and we pay a heavy price for it every day, including putting up with the absolute sickness that is kinsey and his disciples.

>>2242306
there were way worse researchers than alfred kinsey, there's that one in west germany who gave pedophiles foster children, or countless others, in comparison kinsey is not that bad for sex researches from that era

>>2242310

Fair enough if there are worse. But see what I posted. Its horrific on its own. And just going over some of the pages before and after it goes on and on. See the pdf.

I would ask you to link the west german stuff here (though to be honest I will probably just bookmark the thread and look at it way way later)

If it is true that such sickness took place in west germany, it does lend some tiny credence that kinsey may have indeed gotten some data from a Nazi. Its just too hard for me to consistently dig into this stuff.

Political economy is quite taxing intellectually, but at least its not quite so emotionally harsh.

File: 1745643751948.jpg (61.42 KB, 524x609, LYSENKO.jpg)


>>2242313
his name was helmut kentler, but in comparison to him protecting 1 pedophile for the sake of research is hardly the worst thing of the time period, though i do think the modern kinsey institute does valuable research in part because they are actually held to account by research institutions

>>2242324

Once again. Read the PDF, at least the section with table 34. Besides whatever molestation took place, the actual section IS CLEARLY TRYING TO JUSTIFY SEXUAL MOLESTATION OF CHILDREN.

Kinsey is part of the birth of modern sexology, and sexology as field is highly influenced by the porn industry (Not unlike psychiatry being under the thumb of pharmaceuticals).

NO QUARTER FOR THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM'S FILTH & SICKNESS AND ITS BOURGEOIS AND PETTY BOURGEOIS DEFENDERS.

>>2242324

I'm sorry I really should stop. Just post a link to the helmut kentler research (or an expose on it) and that's all.

I am feeling dizzy.

>>2242224
I responded to this point here >>2241191, prison abolishisment does not mean what you think it means.
>>2241198
Prison reform has the same issue all reform measures have, which is that is doesn't actually change the capitalist prison structure itself. You can still have individual "prisons" in a society which has abolished the institution of prisons, it's just prisons won't be the primary way of dealing with people who have committed any given crime, with instead a focus on at least attempting rehabilitation by other means.

>>2242313
>>2242328
I took the time to try and read it, but whatever Kinsey position on pedeophilia was (which seems inconclusive, though leaning in the negative with statements in the second book), the page mentioned does not seem to condone pedophilia at all. Saying that the pre-adolecent are capable of something, does not condone adults making the pre-adolecent do said that thing. We can talk about the abhorrentness of how said data was collected (journals of and interviews with pedophiles), and the flaws of the methodology in regards to quality of the sample and data, but I'm really searching for any explicit condoning of pedophila that can be corroborated.
>and sexology as field is highly influenced by the porn industry
This doesn't sound right, porn and sexology generally seem to be at odds with each other, good example being the female orgasm.

>>2242387

The pdf was provided. Read the whole section (159-192). Its a clearly an apologia couched in dry scientific terminology. Quote: "The males in the present group become
similarly hypersensitive before the arrival of actual orgasm, will fight away
from the partner and may make violent attempts to avoid climax, although
they derive definite pleasure from the situation. Such individuals quickly
return to complete the experience, or to have a second experience if the
first was complete. About 8 per cent of the younger boys are involved here,
but it is a smaller percentage of older boys and adults which continues
these reactions throughout life."

If you still cannot see it after reading either there is an unbridgeable epistemic gap between us, or else you might just be trying to engage in pedophilia apologia yourself (I am not going make this accusation though, and will choose the former option if only for my own sanity)

>>2242439

*157-182

>>2242439
I'm genuinely sorry, but I don't see it, maybe I'm just autistic in this. Again, I am not condoning the interviews to collect such data, but I can't see how saying that 8% of X group gets hypersensitive before climax, to the point it may be painful and so retract from sex for a while, is a condoning of pedophilia. Your paragraph even states that this continues in life for some people, so its clearly about hypersensitivity then it is about what "should" be done to any person. But to reiterate, I am not condoning any possible support for pedophilia, I'm just not able to see it from what you posted and linked. I am open to being wrong though.

>>2242341
Abolishing the prisions sound not that smart

>>2243360

"ALTHOUGH THEY DERIVE DEFINITE PLEASURE FROM THE SITUATION"

Context: These are pre-adolescent males and he is claiming they are climaxing and enjoying the situation despite violently resisting their adult "partner".

I am a disgnosed autist and even I fucking see it, so let me spell it out: The whole chapter (WHICH I AGAIN AM SHOUTING YOU SHOULD DL THE PDF BIVE IN THE THREAD AND READ) is about sexual activity in pre-adolescence. Children do not have sexual urges.

Think about it: Why do a whole chapter on this topic in such a way and then describe it with the words used (like above) without any mention of condemnation, even a lousy disclaimer.

>>2243383
>Children do not have sexual urges.

bro, kids play with their genitals all the time lol

>>2241122
anti-leninist western 'marxism' is always a cover for weird sex shit
SHAME ON YOU ALL

>>2243391

A lot of sexual degeneracy (child molestation, bestiality, etc.) was not even defended by many famous marxist theorists in the west; A lot of it came from enemies like Foucault.

Kinsey was not any kind of marxist or communist for instance.

It boggles the mind that any people in the western left defend any of this pure sickness or at least try to downplay it in weasly manner.

Μελιγαλάς for all of them.

>>2243383
>Think about it: Why do a whole chapter on this topic in such a way and then describe it with the words used (like above) without any mention of condemnation, even a lousy disclaimer.

<reporting without condemnation is endorsement


You're retarded.

>>2243383
>"ALTHOUGH THEY DERIVE DEFINITE PLEASURE FROM THE SITUATION"
Yeah, I'm not too sure on the reporting on this one.
>Context: These are pre-adolescent males and he is claiming they are climaxing and enjoying the situation despite violently resisting their adult "partner".
No, that's not what it said. It said that some boys, as well as men, feel extreme discomfort upon approaching climax and will push away their partner when nearing one. The whole prior paragraph makes it clear the context of what is being talked about.
>The whole chapter (WHICH I AGAIN AM SHOUTING YOU SHOULD DL THE PDF BIVE IN THE THREAD AND READ) is about sexual activity in pre-adolescence. Children do not have sexual urges.
Dude, I'm sorry, but that's not true. Its uncomfortable to admit and talk about, but children absolutely have sexual urges and can have sexual responses. If you did an anonymous survey of men, they'd likely report having their first erection somewhere before puberty. All of the "equipment" and "chemistry" biologically in our bodies is there before puberty, it just becomes more pronounced as we fully sexually develop during puberty. I mean, hell man, are you seriously telling me that before you were 10, you didn't have a situation where something suddenly did it for you? There is a reason the "attractive lifeguard" is a trope is school movies.
>Think about it: Why do a whole chapter on this topic in such a way and then describe it with the words used (like above) without any mention of condemnation, even a lousy disclaimer.
Because it's a sexology book, once you veer into condemnation, it's no longer a strictly clinical or scientific study. There's is, and then there's ought. Any proper sociological or medical study focuses on what they observe is, they rarely state as part of the study what ought to be done with it and if X thing is morally wrong or not. To be blunt, saying that the pre-adolecent can get erections, isn't saying people should be able to have sex with kids. I shouldn't even have to say that.

>>2243397
>It boggles the mind that any people in the western left defend any of this pure sickness or at least try to downplay it in weasly manner.
<Implying any single person in this thread is defending any of those things
If I perform a study based on survey that concludes that 8% of men interviewed have engaged in sexual contact with an animal, is that saying that it's ok to have sex with animals, you dishonest horse fucker?

>>2243367
I think it's difficult in a capitalist context, only because prisons (as an institution) is so entangled with the system as a whole. But I personally don't think prison (as an institution) is the most effective way of dealing with the majority of people who have committed crimes in a post-capialist society.

>>2243417

Its clear you didn't even open the fucking pdf or even look at the pictures I posted. And you also confirmed you are a degenerate pedo apologist to me.

Full two pages, copy pasted:

Our several thousand histories have included considerable detail on the
nature of orga!>m; ~nd the!>e data, together with the records supplied by
some older subjects who have had sexual contacts with younger boys.
provide material for describing the different sorts of reactions which may
occur. In the pre-adolescent, orga~tm is, of course, w,ithout ejaculation of
semen. ln the de&cription!> wh1ch follow, the data &upplicd by adult
observers for 196 ·pre-adolescent boys are the sources of the percentage
figures indicating the frequency of each type of orgasm among such young
males. While six types are llsted, 1t should be understood that all gradations
occur between the situations which are herewith described.
1. Reactions primarily genital: Little or no evidence of body tension;
orgasm reached suddenly with little or no build-up; penis becomes more
rigid and may be involved in mild throbs, or throbs may be limited to
urethra alone; semen (in the adult) seeps from urethra without forcible
ejaculation; climax passes with minor after-effects. A fifth (22%) of the
pre-adole&eent cases on which there are sufficient data belong here, and
probably an even higher proportion of older males.
2. Some body ten!tion: Usually involving a tension or twitching of one
or both legs, of the mouth, of the arms, or of other particular parts of the
body. A gradual build-up to a climax which invo1ves rigidity of the whole
body and some throbbing of the penis; orgasm with a few spasms but little
after-effect. This is the most common type of orgasm, involving nearly half (45%) of the pre-adolescent males, and perhaps a corresponding
number of adult males.
3. Extreme tension with violent convulsion: Often involving the sud-
den heaving and jerking of the whole body. Descriptions supplied by
several subjects indicate that the legs often become rigid, with muscles
knotted and toes pointed, muscles of abdomen contracted and hard,
!>boulders and neck stiff and often bent forward, breath held or gasping.
eyes staring or tightly closed, hands grasping, mouth distorted, sometimes
with tongue protruding; whole body or parts of it spasmodically twitching,
sometimes synchronously with throbs or violent jerking of the penis. The
individual may have some, but little, control of these involuntary reactions.
A gradual, and sometimes prolonged, build-up to orgasm. which involves
still more violent convulsion!. of the whole body; heavy breathing, groan-
ing, sobbing, or more violent cries, sometimes with an abundance of tears
(especially among younger children), the orgasm or ejaculation often
extended, in some individuals involving several minutes (in one case up to
five minutes) of recurrent spasm. After-effects not necessarily more marked
than with other types of orgasm, and the individual is often capable of
participating in a second or further experience. About one sixth (17%) of
the prc-adole11cent boy1., a smaller percentage of adult males.
4. A!. in either type I or 2; but with hysterical laughing, talking,
!>adi!>tic or ma!>ochistic reactions, rapid motions (whether in masturbation
or in intercourse), culminating in more or less frenzied movements which
arc continued through the orgasm. A small percentage (5/~) of either pre-
adolescent or adult males.
5. As in any of the above; but culminating in extreme trembling,
collapse, loss of color, and sometimes fainting of subject. Sometimes
happens only in the boy's first experience, occasionally occurs throughout
the Life of an individual. Regular in only a few (3/:,) of the pre-adolescent
or adult males. Such complete collap!>e is more common and better known
among females.
6. Pained or frightened at approach of orgasm. The genitalia of many
adult males become hypersensitive immediately at and after orgasm, and
!tome males suffer excruciating pain and may scream if movement is con-
tinued or the penis even touched. The males in the present group become
similarly hypersensitive before the arrival of actual orgasm, will fight away
from the partner and may make violent attempts to avoid climax, although
they derive definite pleasure from the situation. Such individuals quickly
return to complete the experience, or to have a second experience if the
first was complete. About 8 per cent of the younger boys are involved here,
but it is a smaller percentage of older boys and adults which continues
these reactions throughout life.



For comments on children you confirm to me you are unsalvageable garbage. Death to you and all like you.

>>2243458
pure wokescold moralcope.

>>2243465

Call me whatever. You need to be erased. That is all.

>>2243458
>Its clear you didn't even open the fucking pdf or even look at the pictures I posted. And you also confirmed you are a degenerate pedo apologist to me.
If you want to discuss the fact that they collected the data from the anonymous journals of men recounting adolescence, prisoners, and a pedophile, and how that data can be extremely faulty, then that's fine. But nothing you just posted is in any way inherently a condoning of pedophilia. You would have to show me a part which states that sexual contact between an adult and child is proper, should be supported, and/or should be pursued. I have seen none of that, and if I can see no condoning, I cannot say that the study itself is in support of pedophila.
>For comments on children you confirm to me you are unsalvageable garbage. Death to you and all like you.
Wtf did I do? Me stating a medical fact, that pre-adolecent males can feel seuxal urges and have erections, is not condoning pedophila you hysterical fag. We have lots of modern non-Kinsey studies to support this, and it's something lots of parents have to uncomfortably deal with, including having to talk with their children so they don't do inappropriate things. Even if you don't trust those studies, we have men today who will openly self-report this if anonymous:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/gf2zkf/at_what_age_did_you_have_your_first_sexual/
I don't like having this discussion with you, but I'm also not going to shy away from ruthless critique. If there is genuine support for pedophila in this study, I will condemn it. But nothing you posted, even the various ways pre-adolecent, adolescent, and adult men have orgasms, is proof of support for pedophila.

>>2243504
i think that guy is genuinely mentally ill, and that guy should take his meds to avoid being hysterical over scientific inquiry

>>2243458
What exactly is triggering you so hard about these passages

>>2241122
Everyone one in this photo not named Marx is actually garbage.

>>2243533
>Marx knew everything and was correct everytime

What a idiot.

>>2243544
*an idiot

>>2243544
That's not what I said, he's the only one worth reading and studying from that picture.

>>2277233

Unsurprisingly a thread filled with pedo apologist degenerates who are incapable of opening a pdf and reading a few pages is bumped by a troll.

No rehabilitation. No reform. No prison. Execution along with close family. This is the way.

>>2241122
>Dr John Money\ Trans ideology, surgeries included, Weimar republic
Why is this nazi dogwhistle thread still up? John Money's little "experiment" just proved that gender identity is innate btw
Mods please

>>2277244
>Unsurprisingly a thread filled with pedo apologist degenerates who are incapable of opening a pdf and reading a few pages is bumped by a troll.
We literally did open the PDF you fag. Absolutely nobody here was a pedo apologist, all we did was demand proof that the study explicitly condoned pedophilia. We stated clearly that if there was, then it would be dismissed as such, but none could be found. Then you made the hysterical reaction to call people pedophiles for not even supporting pedophila, but for asking for proof for the study supporting pedophila.
>No rehabilitation. No reform. No prison. Execution along with close family. This is the way.
What are you talking about?


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