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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


 

Why does it feel like so much “anti-imperialism” has very little — if anything — to do with anti-imperialism and is simply Muslim identity politics?

For instance, why would anyone compare Pakistan to Palestine, when the former is a sovereign nation that was a close US ally during the Cold War and the latter a stateless nation that’s been fighting a 77+ year guerrilla war against one of the most brutal armies in the world and is now facing an all-out genocide? Pakistan and India are both bourgeois states with close ties to the US that both frequently imprison communists. To compare Pakistan to Palestine, in that western activists have a moral duty to hold mass protests waving Pakistani flags and boycott anything Indian is fucking stupid.

Yeah, I’m not shilling for India. But this shit is theoretically weak af.

Also, why does it seem like in every political conflict involving Muslims (except for China vs the Uyghurs) leftists always insist on taking the “Muslim side”? Look at Ethiopia vs Somalia or Christians vs Muslims in Nigeria, for instance. During the Cold War this would have made perfect sense, because the side fighting against the side backed by the West could be allied with the USSR and utilized to fight western capitalists. Today, not so much.

I’d love to understand the logic here.

because people are uneducated libs.

Campism in general is pointless. Football teams.

There is like at least 2 anti-Muslim threads per day at this point.

Lmao. The CIA apparantly thinks that latent islamophobie apparently a good wegde point to attack Western leftist movements. Reminds me of the embassy cables exposing the 'Women in Afghanistan' is the main talking point to justify imperialism in Afghanistan.

>>2258756
Probably because of Al-Jazeera having a huge influence on the American left post-9/11.

>>2258869
Nothing OP said was Islamophobic.

I haven't really seen any anti-imperialists supporting Pakistan. The article below is from a site that is explicitly anti-zionist and against aid to Ukraine, yet it avoids taking a side on the India-Pakistan conflict.
https://marxist.com/india-pakistan-war-only-serves-the-rich-workers-must-unite.htm

>>2258756
>in that western activists have a moral duty to hold mass protests waving Pakistani flags and boycott anything Indian is fucking stupid.
you saw some person on xitter say this and act as if it's some mass movement
most likely no one has even heard of what happened ffs

>>2258756
>anti-imperialism
Its just nationalism or in muslim case religion in a communist disguise. These people dont care about socialism but see us as useful idiots to advance the interests of their shitty nations or religions.

>>2258880
OP wasn't explicitly islamophobic, but he does seem like a concern troll.

>>2258894
>like a concern troll.
I hate this shitty meme like you wouldnt believe.

>>2258869
This is 100% what I think these anti-Muslim threads are. It's always

>Waa why don't leftist criticize Islam enough??


As if there would ever be enough criticism that would accept. What they want is to just muddy the waters and make it seem like it's not so bad the U.S is constantly obliterating these countries in the name of democracy, or gay/woman's rights.

>>2258869
>>2258918
Shutting down political criticism by amalgamating it with a xenophobic sentiment sure sounds like it's out of some zionist playbook. Kind reminder that religion will wither away with socialism and that no serious socialist can be religious btw

>>2258756
>Why does it feel like so much “anti-imperialism” has very little — if anything — to do with anti-imperialism and is simply Muslim identity politics?
die mad, mossad

>Trots are islamophobic neocons

Fitting like a bucket fits an ass.

>>2258756
you will defend Islam no matter what and you will like it

>>2258880
>>2258894
do not question Islam. Defend Islam.

>>2258756
>Look at Ethiopia vs Somalia or Christians vs Muslims in Nigeria, for instance.
Huh? Where's the mass of leftists talking about those countries?

>>2258894
OP is 100% a concern troll, he's just digging through a handful random social media posts and using them to generalize the entire left.
Probably a tourist.

Theres 3 Islam threads on the catalogue that have the exact same OP?

Show me a single fucking leftist supporting Pakistan or comparing Pakistan to Palestine.

Because anti-imperialism isn't a real thing.

Pisslamists are the CIA's worst product

Read The Jakarta Method. The CIA used Muslims to mass-murder millions of Indonesian communists in the 1960s.

>How can you protest against children being bombed in Gaza when the CIA worked with muslims in an entirely different country 60 years before those children were born?
What a profound and convincing argument.

I support Pakistan purely because it has been attacked by an aggressor for a reason that has no evidence attached to it.

>>2258756
>Why does it feel like so much “anti-imperialism” has very little — if anything — to do with anti-imperialism and is simply Muslim identity politics?
what the fuck are you even talking about? my first reflex seeing this is to tell you "go kill yourself"

>why would anyone compare Pakistan to Palestine

who beyond a few random retards on social media do that?

>leftists always insist on taking the “Muslim side”?

they dont

>I’d love to understand the logic here.

the logic is that you should stop caring about and propagating the stupid shit of irrelevant morons

>>2259165
OP clearly stated what’s happening in Palestine is a genocide.

>>2258756
>For instance, why would anyone compare Pakistan to Palestine
You've the first one I've seen, troll.
To everyone else: It's about Kashmir an ethnically diverse region that has historically been independent and is an imperialist objective for both India and Pakistan.

I love how the backing of ethnonationalism is treated like a valid stance all by itself. Retards here never even bother to explain how that’s supposed to help class struggle or fight capitalism. How they seriously think a new nation is the answer to the inherent problems of capitalism is just beyond me.

>>2259224
Imagine actually thinking that Pakistan is an ethno-state. Holy fuck, lmao.

>>2259229
How could anyone seriously believe that bourgeois nationalists would pave the way for socialism when it’s directly against their interests?

>>2259224
>>2259230
a prerequisite for a classless society is for muslims in south asia to stick together duh

>Anti-Muslim thread (5th one in the catalog rn)
>Anti-anti-imperialism thread
>swarmed by random flag and tor posters suddenly

Yeah, I am going to skip this one.

>>2259224
>>2259229
I ❤️ bourgeois nation states

Ethnostates doe? I don't fuck with em

>>2259229
It’s bourgeois. That’s enough.

>>2259231
How? Muslims in South Asia aren’t a monolith.

>>2259242
I kinda of want this slogan on a T-shirt

>>2259454
>le T-Shirt slogsn
Just fuck off back to reddit already.

>>2258875
Most likely this

>>2259208
Pakistan isn’t imperialist. India is.

>>2258875
This is EXACTLY what it is.

There's a phenomenon on the American left (and possibly the global left too) known as the "al-Jazeera left". These people (usually Trots or SocDems but not always) tend to be anti-American and very, very, very anti-Israel, and anti-India, but are simultaneously anti-Iran, anti-China, and anti-Russia. They have a bit of sympathy with the Kurds but will never come out as anti-Turkey. They cheered when Gaddafi was overthrown and they cheered a few months ago when Assad was overthrown. They dislike Shia jihadis like Hizballah (because they see them as Iranian proxies, which they are in all fairness) yet they have a soft spot for Sunni jihadis like Muslim Brotherhood-affiliated groups.

The common denominator in all this is, if you look at their foreign policy positions they happen to be identical to those of Qatar. Look at Democracy Now and Haymarket Books if you want examples of what these people believe and who they are. But yes, it's VERY obvious to me that al-Jazeera has heavily influenced a large chunk of the contemporary left's position on sectarian issues involving Muslim countries and populations.

if the US invaded iraq claiming to be fighting arab imperialism half this website wouldve unironically supported it

>>2260219
That was literally 1991 with Kuwait, and you did have people making that argument in 2003, the most prominent being Christopher Hitchens


>>2260219
I mean, isn’t Ukraine technically fighting Russian imperialism?

>>2260125
Yeah. I think a way to understand the Middle East is that there are four blocs. Now it's a bit more complicated and this is an oversimplification and there are exceptions, but lemme lay out these blocs:

>The Sunni kings

Qatar is the exception here but it's a bloc that roughly consists of Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Jordan. That said if I were Abdullah II, I wouldn't trust MBS or the emirs of the UAE whatsoever, but generally they're part of this conservative, Sunni king bloc.

>The Axis of Resistance

You know who this is: Iran, the Houthis, Hezbollah and formerly Assad 💀

>Qatar-Turkey and the Muslim Brotherhood

This bloc won big in Syria. Hamas also emerged as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood and – it's worth remembering – initially supported the uprising against Assad. I've seen anecdotal polling of Palestinians that rank Erdogan pretty highly but not Assad (back when he was in power). Remember there was bloody fighting between Palestinian militants and Assad's forces in Yarmouk.

The Axis of Resistance fights Iran but they were fighting Turkey-Qatar in Syria. It's complicated.

>The Everybody-Else Bloc

This is pretty loose but includes Israel and various minorities such as the Druze and Kurds. Israeli warplanes in recent days have been bombing Sunni jihadi fighters in southern Syria attacking Druze in southern Syria. Now, realistically, the Druze in southern Syria are probably divided on this, with some supporting that, and others not wanting to be used as Israeli puppets. Also the Druze in Lebanon don't support Israel. I'm not up to speed on what Lebanese Christians think of Israel now, I'm aware there is some bad blood because Israel betrayed them, but they used to be allies in the 1980s. Also I'm generalizing about the Kurds, but apparently there are informal links between Israel and Barzani's KDP in northern Iraq.

BTW, since you mentioned the "Al-Jazeera left" (usually Trots or Socdems like you mentioned) I think you might also say there's a "Press.TV left" who usually like to present themselves (anyways) as hardcore Stalinists or whatever, but they're really pro-Axis. They were very pro-Assad and are very anti-Israel. And while prosecuting a sort of online pro-Assad war would describe the Sunni militants in Syria as jihadi terrorists, but there's a contradiction because ideologically HTS has much more in common with Hamas than it does Iran because both are Sunni militant organizations.

>>2261060
if ukraine didn't join nato there wouldn't be a war. nato expansion makes moscow an easy target and russia warned europe not to expand nato

>>2261132
I mean, Assad slaughtered a lot of Palestinians, so.

No one like Indians or Zionists, because they are insufferable on the internet
simple as

>>2261159
Not an excuse to throw out Marxism.

>>2260219
The only reason most MLs don't worship Saddam is because Iran (their current campist pet project) has a bad blood with him so its inconvenient to their ongoing larp. If Iran was the one invaded in 2003 MLs would be dickriding Saddam probably more so than Assad.

>>2261177
>you need to be more open to having the same stance on an international issue or conflict as the US State Dept or you're throwing out Marxism!!!!

moron

>>2261234
Saddam killed communists though.

>>2261159
when it comes to Indians, leftypol = 4chan.
At least you had the decency to say 'zionists' and not simply 'jews'. But for Indians, you find no need to differentiate. The whole race can go fuck itself.
In last year's national elections, BJP's alliance had 44% of the vote share, versus 37% for the main opposition coalition, led by Congress. There are literally hundreds of millions of Indians who are against Modi.

>>2261281
everyone killed communists, including communists. That does not mean anything.

>>2260125
>>2261132
Very good and accurate explanation.

File: 1746831538945.jpeg (59.04 KB, 720x814, GTOOf_UaEAAqlOd.jpeg)


>>2261452
they deserved it

>>2261481
only communists are allowed to kill other communists, if you defend ideologies that should be killed by communists killing communists you deserve to be killed by an communist with a rock.

>>2261488
do you have comprehension issues? see what my post was replying to

The left were literally sayin the hijab is feminist and SJWs were screaming Islamic phrases and waving the Palestine flag next to the Pride flag. Fucking hilarious

>>2261565
read the entire line from the made up scenario about how the site would react to the invasion of iraq to your post, how does it justify saddam or any other rightwing parasite killing communists because we kill ourselves like it's the same thing ?.

>>2261613
Unpopular opinion, but I find it cringe when non-Arabic speakers use the term “al-Quds”. They always pronounce it wrong anyway.

>>2261281
So did cuckmenei

>>2261234
>The only reason most MLs don't worship Saddam is because Iran (their current campist pet project) has a bad blood with him
There was one guy in Caleb Maupin's bowling team who was a big Saddam stan. Like that was this whole thing. Flame of Liberation? I feel embarrassed knowing this. My impression is that Saddam has a good rep among Palestinians because he supported them.

>>2261613
>SJWs were screaming Islamic phrases and waving the Palestine flag next to the Pride flag
Needs some T-72s and Republican Guard battalions to escort the parade and then we're cooking.

>>2261643
I say Kudus as a turk

>>2261132
Turkey just announced it's going to support Pakistan in the Pakistan-India war.

So I guess the al-Jazeera Left will go hard for Pak.

>>2261613
>the left
Bullshit. Those were liberals.

>>2261234
>If Iran was the one invaded in 2003 MLs would be dickriding Saddam
that doesnt even make any fucking sense, the "anticampist" are really incoherent retards in addition to being objectively pro imperialists

>>2259224
>backing of ethnonationalism is treated like a valid stance
<pure strawman : the post

>>2259001
If India became ruled by Muslims again, how would that advance socialism in any way?

>>2262664
it would not. If anything, it would obliterate the already flawed democracy, and we would end up with another reactionary state which would make hindutva look like altar boys. But at least leftypol would be happy, because reactionary extremism under the banner of Islam is revolutionary, apparently.

>>2262385
Campist brainlets must uphold the narrative of the current imperialist power they root for uncritically. They can't exist vicariously through Ba'athist Iraq since it no longer exists so they no longer have interest in supporting it, instead they turn to Islamist Iran condemning the now obsolete Ba'athists in the process.

If it was the other way around we would be hearing leftists complain about how Israel and the US armed Islamists in Iran and put them in power aktuahly

>>2262667
Are these islamist leftypolers in the room with us right now

>Pakistan is a sovereign nation that was a close US ally during the Cold War
riiiight, just like Ukraine is somehow a sovereign nation despite the CIA overthrowing their pro-Russian president?
<Smoking gun: US-backed coup toppled Pakistan PM Imran Khan over Ukraine neutrality, non-alignment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBc5YLW8h74&ab_channel=GeopoliticalEconomyReport

>"From the start, Khan advocated that the conflict in Ukraine should be settled at the negotiating table rather than on the battlefield. The U.S. and E.U. arm-twisted foreign leaders including Khan to fall into line against Putin and to support Western sanctions against Russia, yet Khan resisted."

https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/a8dt7m63khdptc8hw6c8xej2yxwaz5

>Secret Pakistan Cable Documents U.S. Pressure to Remove Imran Khan: “All will be forgiven,” said a U.S. diplomat, if the no-confidence vote against Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan succeeds.

https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/imran-khan-pakistan-cypher-ukraine-russia/


>>2259707
If India is imperialist so is Mexico and Thailand(its not)
>>2261060
Russia isn't imperialist

>There are people in year that still defend the invasion of Iraq which resulted in 2-3 million dead people cumulated

Anti-Campists are straight up genocidal.

>>2258756
So true!!
Reject the Hamas Islamists!

reminder "islamist" critique is pure idealism. Marx already criticized religion definitively centuries ago. Read theory before saying dumb CIA shit.

>>2258756
>Also, why does it seem like in every political conflict involving Muslims (except for China vs the Uyghurs) leftists always insist on taking the “Muslim side”?
Only retards look at the world through these lens. There is no truth to this.

Leftists in the West support the Uyghurs, just as they supported other CIA and Saudi backed MUSLIM terrorists, anyways. The reason to critically support a specific group is for geopolitical economic analysis in line with the global socialist project. Not religion, you fucking dumbass.

>>2263668
I'm Iraqi you retarded faggot

What part of calling out your critical support for US-backed reactionaries is pro-US exactly? You're a liberal so I sadly have to bring myself to your level in order to deconstruct your thought process

>>2263691
>you cant criticize religion or youre an idealist
the absolute state of leftoids

why are trots like this seriously

>>2263776
lad, he's just a ragebaiting concern troll, not an actual trot

>>2263774
>I'm a gusano
Kys traitor.

Cause ater the USSR fell the only opposition to the US was islamists. And communists went to "US bad" to cope with the cold war ending. You see "communists" now defending the same forces that killed socialist movements in the global south.

>>2263668
Assad-bro, let it go

>>2263785
so was Trotsky

>>2263794
>muuhh islamism
What 0 reading does to a mf
>>2263775
Literally yes, you fucking retard. Read Marx's critique of Feuerbach and Bauer. Like hownew.ru?

>The purely national character of these questions and solutions is moreover shown by the fact that these theorists believe in all seriousness that chimeras like “the God-Man,” “Man,” etc., have presided over individual epochs of history (Saint Bruno even goes so far as to assert that only “criticism and critics have made history,” [Bruno Bauer, Charakteristik Ludwig Feuerbachs] and when they themselves construct historical systems, they skip over all earlier periods in the greatest haste and pass immediately from “Mongolism” [Max Stirner, Der Einzige und sein Eigenthum] to history “with meaningful content,” that is to say, to the history, of the Hallische and Deutsche Jahrbücher and the dissolution of the Hegelian school into a general squabble. They forget all other nations, all real events, and the theatrum mundi is confined to the Leipzig book fair and the mutual quarrels of “criticism,” [Bruno Bauer] “man,” [Ludwig Feuerbach] and “the unique”. [Max Stirner] If for once these theorists treat really historical subjects, as for instance the eighteenth century, they merely give a history of ideas, separated from the facts and the practical development underlying them;
The Mossad agent needs to fucking read to be more convincing.

Mossad poster BTFOd 2 centuries ago.

The entire body of German philosophical criticism from Strauss to Stirner is confined to criticism of religious conceptions. [The following passage is crossed out in the manuscript:] claiming to be the absolute redeemer of the world from all evil. Religion was continually regarded and treated as the arch-enemy, as the ultimate cause of all relations repugnant to these philosophers. The critics started from real religion and actual theology. What religious consciousness and a religious conception really meant was determined variously as they went along. Their advance consisted in subsuming the allegedly dominant metaphysical, political, juridical, moral and other conceptions under the class of religious or theological conceptions; and similarly in pronouncing political, juridical, moral consciousness as religious or theological, and the political, juridical, moral man – “man” in the last resort – as religious. The dominance of religion was taken for granted. Gradually every dominant relationship was pronounced a religious relationship and transformed into a cult, a cult of law, a cult of the State, etc. On all sides it was only a question of dogmas and belief in dogmas. The world was sanctified to an ever-increasing extent till at last our venerable Saint Max was able to canonise it en bloc and thus dispose of it once for all.

The Old Hegelians had comprehended everything as soon as it was reduced to an Hegelian logical category. The Young Hegelians criticised everything by attributing to it religious conceptions or by pronouncing it a theological matter. The Young Hegelians are in agreement with the Old Hegelians in their belief in the rule of religion, of concepts, of a universal principle in the existing world. Only, the one party attacks this dominion as usurpation, while the other extols it as legitimate.

Since the Young Hegelians consider conceptions, thoughts, ideas, in fact all the products of consciousness, to which they attribute an independent existence, as the real chains of men (just as the Old Hegelians declared them the true bonds of human society) it is evident that the Young Hegelians have to fight only against these illusions of consciousness. Since, according to their fantasy, the relationships of men, all their doings, their chains and their limitations are products of their consciousness, the Young Hegelians logically put to men the moral postulate of exchanging their present consciousness for human, critical or egoistic consciousness, and thus of removing their limitations. This demand to change consciousness amounts to a demand to interpret reality in another way, i.e. to recognise it by means of another interpretation. The Young-Hegelian ideologists, in spite of their allegedly “world-shattering" statements, are the staunchest conservatives. The most recent of them have found the correct expression for their activity when they declare they are only fighting against “phrases.” They forget, however, that to these phrases they themselves are only opposing other phrases, and that they are in no way combating the real existing world when they are merely combating the phrases of this world. The only results which this philosophic criticism could achieve were a few (and at that thoroughly one-sided) elucidations of Christianity from the point of view of religious history; all the rest of their assertions are only further embellishments of their claim to have furnished, in these unimportant elucidations, discoveries of universal importance.

It has not occurred to any one of these philosophers to inquire into the connection of German philosophy with German reality, the relation of their criticism to their own material surroundings.

>>2263824
to read too many books is harmful
you are a good example of that

Anti-imperialism is banning chess, don't you see?

>>2263788
I live in Iraq, retard. and if that term means I hate the abstract idea of a nation state then yeah I'm a Marxist lmao

>>2258756
stick to your gay little books you path dork

>>2262330
Always this cop-out lol

>>2264569
Are you the anti-islamist anon? Your post doesn't follow.

>>2264569
ackchually al-nusra is revolutionary and if you don't agree you are a gusano

>>2265489
there is more than one anti-islamist anon, thank fuck

>>2265526
Obsessed jewish living rent free on your mind, kek.

>>2265541
Again: obsessed jew people living rent free on your mind.

>>2265541
MODS DID IT AGAIN!!

cant say HAMAS RAPING Jewish niggerS LIVES RENT FREE IN YOUR MIND on leftypol dot org!! so much for freedom of speech!!

WILL the mod who did this provide an ACTUAL ARGUEMENT for WHY this thread is worth keeping while my slur ridden spam is removed, when one is actuallly bad faith essentialist reaction, and the other classic image board culture? WILL this mod be accountable to their actions? IS this mod the OP of the thread?

>>2265553
btw, I *don't* support hamas, and I *don't* condone rape, it just makes it more fun to cum!

>>2265553
>>2265558
Retarded troll jew obsessed imbecile, did a jew cucked you or something?

>>2265564
Learn English if you're going to post here, patrón.

>>2265575
I'm a proud ESL, you jew obsessed cuck.

>>2265579
You're an islamic essentialist.

>>2258756
Ethiopia vs. Somalia? Please. I've never heard leftists say a single negative thing about Ethiopia.

OP, you seem to misunderstand Islam. I recommend you to check out YouTube channels such as Mohammad Hijab, Ali Dawah, Smile2Jannah etc to understand who we are and inshallah you join our ummat soon.

>>2270873
>Mohammad Hijab, Ali Dawah, Smile2Jannah
Salam akhi, I listened to videos and podcasts of these guys and they all say that the free market was ordiened by allah himself
So I recommend you either read Marx and leave the opium aside like I did or admit that you're a liberal Islamist

>>2270892
Marxism is islamophobic
Follow the Holy scriptures or follow your jewish prophet Marx. You cannot have both

>>2270894
>Hitlerpol has made reactionary Islamists feel welcome
lol lmao hahah xdddddd

My holy scripture is capital and my prophet is Marx

>>2270896
that is your right. You will be answerable on the Day of Judgement

>>2270873
everything ive seen by hijab makes him seem like an edgelord, i don't really get my views from internet debate guys

>>2275541
you are islamophobic


File: 1747772364366.png (1.49 MB, 1919x1073, image.png)

>>2263863
to have read none is even worse
this thread reeks of mossad hasbarist nonsense.
<have you ever considered that le israel is le progressive force in the middle east and that supporting palestine is literally doing a hecking unwholesome muslamic shareeya law? don't you care about womens rights and stuff bro?


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