/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

OP here, so I was hanging out with some communists and it made me regain hope in communism so I should probably ask the fringe questions here

>>2263075
Racism isn’t necessarily a set of prejudiced beliefs but rather a systematic issue.
Let me put it to you this way:
If a system that was designed by white people to benefit white people, to elevate white people and to discriminate against non white people and uphold white supremacy, can it really be “racist” against white people?

When some leftists say racism against whites doesn't exist, what they are doing is applying a different definition of the word racism.
They aren't disagreeing with the concept that whites can be hated based on their race. Usually if they say whites can't be racist-ed against they are saying racism implies socio-economic oppression based on race, not just hatred. Realize that this is a semantic question, no one disagrees that whites can be hated based on their whiteness, so 99% of these arguments is just people talking past each other.

racism agaisnt whites doesnt exist because white people are bad. also we like to eat babies and do sacrifices to satan

Racism can refer to systems but overlaps into interpersonal relationships to. I’d argue the systemic aspect is the most important while interpersonal relationships help buffer it (honestly not dissimilar to the base-superstructure relationship) and so in terms of systemic racism I don’t think it can be said to exist against white people as a whole. Say what you will but broadly speaking it’s whites occupying most of the institutions of power—though that doesn’t necessitate any “white solidarity” or nonsense, your local country club white doesn’t give a fuck about white trash. So addressing systemic racism isn’t really applicable to whites unless someone can prove there are structural disadvantages white people face in things like hiring or getting homes.

Now as for interpersonal relationships I think there can be said to be some level of interpersonal racism or prejudice or what you want to call it against white people. Of course this is localized to specific contexts—you go to some podunk town in the rural Midwest you’ll likely hear the whole “I’m just saying all lives matter” stuff, but you stand on the periphery of cosmopolitan and liberal places and you’ll be indirectly regarded with some contempt. However I think culture is heavily atomized now such that there can’t be said to be a “mainstream” culture, let alone one that’s specifically hateful towards white people.

>>2263085
>can it really be “racist” against white people?
nope
>>2263091
so hatred does exist but it isn't systemic/socio-economic
>>2263106
so if black people were the ones in power and were the ones who did the enslaving, then systemic racism against whites would be a thing?

or if people that hated whites specifically were in power it would be a thing

>>2263075
Racism yes
Chauvinism no
It's just that the two terms get conflated into some weird racial hierarchy by idpolitics

op again, so my conclusion is that hatred exists but it isn't systemic at all

>>2263119
interesting, thought both were the same

>>2263117
I think systems can extend beyond just the faces of the people in power. They burrow deep, which is why it’s so difficult to remove them. I’d imagine it would be entirely possible to have a system that is itself racist whereas the people within it aren’t particularly racist themselves, they may even imagine they’re just “doing their jobs”. It’s deeply paradoxical. I think a couple good examples would be back in highschool I remember we read this letter from a slave master (white) to an overseer (white) who explained that while he was away one of his house slaves (black) was in charge, to treat the man with respect and listen to him, but don’t be overt about taking orders from a black man cause it would upset the whole system. Like the system itself is horrific and racist but it would remain that way even though you’ve got one white guy telling another that the black guy was gonna run things.

Now if the roles of colonizers were reversed and Africans enslaved whites, forced them into ghettos, and created a system that ensured their longterm impoverishment, then I think it can be argued you’ve got a systemic form of racism against whites.

>>2263140
>systemic form of racism against whites.
this is literally what the right fears 24/7, even though I'm very sure it won't ever happen

though sometimes I feel like it's a real possibility. emphasis on the word "feel"

>>2263165
>>2263140
They hate globalism because it gives capitalists from the periphery the chance to profit off the imperial core instead of the other way around like the historical norm. It's more or less white privilege eroding than white disadvantage.
>>2263123
Nobody looks at westerners and say look at their backwards culture and society. That's what chauvinism is but racism exists in the form of stereotypes.

welp, hatred will never stop existing so better to just avoid certain people, based on their appearance iykwim. honestly…

but if hatred doesn't exist at least in 1 society, then it would be a different story of course

>>2263177
>It's more or less white privilege eroding than white disadvantage.
isn't that technically a disadvantage in some way? though of course imo people should be equal, I will never see that ever happening in my lifespan though

Racism against white people doesn't exist but it should.

>>2263229
is picrel real?

>>2263215
It's not a disadvantage relative to other races.
> I will never see that ever happening in my lifespan though
Unironically it already has just for the bourgeoisie. Do you think when WASP makes a deal with an Arab prince or Asian CEO there is any animosity between them? They think of themselves as the cream of the crop of their respective race and respect each other as beneficiaries.

>>2263238
>>2263238
so I should live in a gated society with only billionaire bourgeois people where the working class doesn't exist? got it.

>>2263075
Racism exists because majority of people are racist, even if they're not vulgar racists they're ethnocentric, I've experienced this myself when trying to be friends with other races, they always had a level of understanding between their ethnic group that I could never overcome.

white people don't exist

>>2263255
>Racism exists because majority of people are racist
I'm pretty sure everyone is at least subconsciously, or will be consciously one day. there is no human that isn't racist except maybe a north korean living in north korea since literally there's only one race there so the north koreans probably never had to deal with subconscious or conscious form of racism or even the concept of racism or races.

>>2263258
no way you read all of that

how do leftists actually see this? do they think races aren't real, that it's all a social construct and/or colonizer propaganda? I can at least try to believe this

actually you know what? I'll just believe every single contradicting opinion/view/fact at the same time. if everything I believe I also believe in its opposite then I won't really believe in nothing

>>2263333
*then I won't really believe in anything

>>2263161
Pretty much yeah, it’s really unlikely—although something I’ll say is the right had a long memory for grudges and the rhetoric used in progressive circles sometimes seems more designed to antagonize than to illuminate; carefully cloaked in some “well *technically* I’m correct” excuse.

I mean just an anecdote from my own memory: in the Obama years you did have this weirdly racialized rhetoric, the Democrats coined the phrase “demographics are destiny” and convinced themselves that they would have a permanent majority in government. You had news articles ringing in America’s minority-majority status in a tone that sounded almost triumphalist. You had news articles like “scientists have predicted what the future American will look like, and they’re beautiful” and it’s all mixed race people. Shit, when the alt right was breaking into the scene as a “thing” you’d sometimes see counter-protesters carrying signs like “your kids are gonna be brown”. It was a bizarre, near fetishistic reaction to shifting demos; and then Trump won and suddenly the same people who were saying “white people are gonna be a minority, dems will have permanent control of the country, that’s a good thing!” We’re guffawing that the alt right believed in some “great replacement” conspiracy. It’s like: you were literally saying “we can’t wait to replace you” weeks ago and now it’s “no one is trying to replace you.”

Fuck, I saw this headline a couple weeks back that said something like “New Study: white people get upset if you say they’re going to be outnumbered.” And I mean… yeah? Has the phrase “we outnumber you” ever been used in a positive context? Sounds pretty confrontational. Shit, I had a professor in uni that ended the semester with “I don’t know if the whites will give up their power peacefully.” It’s making it sound like there’s gonna be a race war.

So while I doubt there’ll be real systemic racism against whites, it certainly seems like certain socially liberal groups went out of their way to make it seem like “punishing the whites” was the goal.

>>2263177
I mean, when it comes to “white privilege” it’s always been a complicated thing to me. Like my family struggled, but still sent me to a private school, but the school’s majority minority so I’d be a white kid with grocery workers for parents while the Latino or black kids would have lawyers or doctors or small business owners. They’d be going on vacations and buying the latest games consoles, I’d be going to the goodwill for clothes with my mom. When “white privilege” discourse hit the mainstream, it appeared to me in the form of people saying “Oh I loved my vacation in Cabo but there were so many white people there. Gross.”

I think in sociological terms it’s called the great divergence? Basically a growing gap between middle and upper class whites and the rest of us. So you don’t really have much prospects and things seem to be getting worse than what your parents had, but you’re told you’ve had it too good for too long and now it’s time to lose some power or wealth you’ve never really felt in the name of others getting it. I imagine that breeds resentment.

>>2263335
based but not the racism against whites part, only the liberation part

I think anti-white racism can exist, but it only really does on the level of a couple of individuals. Many leftists argue that anti-white racism can't exist because racism is prejudice + power, but if that's the case, then there is no difference between racism and systemic racism (the distinction exists for a reason after all), and given that many relatively impoverished white people are also racist, the "power" part doesn't really make much sense when we're talking about individuals being racist towards other groups of people in every day life and what have you.
Basically, there can be "anti-white racism" on the level of a few individuals but white people will never be discriminated against in the same why black people are in society on the basis of their race. It's as shrimple as that :^)

>>2263355
Death to all slave owners. And if they happen to be all white, tough shit.

I wanna fuck wh*te women and make sure my brown genes overwhelm the indo-e*ropean genes. /s

>>2263352
>Fuck, I saw this headline a couple weeks back that said something like “New Study: white people get upset if you say they’re going to be outnumbered.” And I mean… yeah? Has the phrase “we outnumber you” ever been used in a positive context?
Absolutely. Our favorite craKKKer trembles at the masses of proletariat.
>Shit, I had a professor in uni that ended the semester with “I don’t know if the whites will give up their power peacefully.” It’s making it sound like there’s gonna be a race war
Your professor is correct. AmeriKKKan class war is intrinsically race war because the craKKKer is footsoldier of settler colonial monopolist imperialist capitalist system. CracKKK minority has ruled amerikkka 500 years too long.
>>2263366
The bourgeois problem is the cracKKKer problem. bourgeois relations are craKKKer machination. The craKKKers must be smashed.

>>2263335
I WONDER WHY HAITI HAD A SLAVE REVOLUTION LMAO

>>2263352
this explains so much, never knew the perspective of someone in the US about this, and whatever happens in the US happens here like a mirror
>>2263358
pretty much this

Go live in a “minority majority” neighborhood as a white person and get back to me if you still think white can’t be the victims of racism.

>>2263394
Where you from if you don’t mind me asking? LatAm? Europe?

>>2263411
I have lol it's not that bad, anyone who's seriously upset by minorities making fun of you for being white or something is so lol-worthy.
White people, when subjected to the same standards of living that minorities (in their class) live in, see it as a uniquely targeted experience towards them.

>>2263411
I mean, I do. And generally speaking is the white ladies that shop in my store that are bigger cunts than the Latinos that see me walking my dog.

>>2263422
brazil, gotta say this country dodged a cannon ball bullet with lula
>>2263411
I had, the neighbour(black) looked like he was always angry at something or slightly angry but serious expression. just avoid them(or if not possible be polite) and you should be fine.

>>2263411
well, whites can be victims of racism. but we can avoid being victims of racism if we're smart enough to not fall in a situation where that would actually happen.

>>2263411
thank god I don't, fuck that

>>2263075
I think about racism in terms of imperialism because racism is largely just a cover for imperialism.

Imperialism is complicated economic stuff and especially since about the 1970s when it was more financialized but basically there are no powerful capitalists today who are funding racist propaganda against white people in order to justify imperialist aggression against white people. However, Ireland is still colonized and also many powerful capitalists fund propaganda against white people in order to justify imperialism against third parties.

So for example, anti-white racism in India is technically a thing I guess in the context of wealthy Indians trying to cover for Brahmin Supremacy and Indian imperialism.

There's also hegemonic whiteness and anti-white racism against white trash in the context of rural America.

>>2263494
I suppose anti-white racism existed for a brief time in imperial Japan. Also the Ottoman Empire before it collapsed.

But yeah racism is largely something that happens because the wealthy capitalists fund propaganda to divide the working class and have them slaughter each other. Also some kinds of religious bigotry. I suppose technically the CIA funds anti-white racism and anti-Christian bigotry but that's because they're funding whacky fascist as a psyop. It's not really the same context. Wealthy capitalists don't really have a motive to fund anti-white propaganda right now. I would say some capitalists fund actual nutty Black Supremacists as a way to keep power over Blsck people but it's not the same thing.

>>2263500
>>2263500
>>2263500
>the CIA funds anti-white racism
holy evil

>>2263075
>racism against white people
<"It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but on the contrary their social existence determines their consciousness." - Karl Marx
What sort of historical materialist conditions would provoke such forms of consciousness? Why would the mode of production cause such an attitude to need to be created to justify the status quo?
>>2263411
>a “minority majority” neighborhood as a white person
the real victims of settler apartheid are Jews, right fellow Zionists? Its so scary to go to the periphery around our imperial core!
>>2263494
>I think about racism in terms of imperialism because racism is largely just a cover for imperialism.
"the highest stage of capitalism" - Lenin
>there are no powerful capitalists today who are funding racist propaganda against white people in order to justify imperialist aggression against white people
Vivek Ramaswamy, maybe lol
https://thegrio.com/2025/01/02/elon-musk-and-vivek-ramaswamys-beef-with-white-mediocrity-explained/

>>2263477
Tbh, and I’m a bit biased here, I think Catholicism kind of eased some of the racial tensions in Brazil and other South American countries. It didn’t eliminate it totally, not at all, but I think the Church had outspoken voices that struggled against racism early on. By contrast you’d have far more push and pull in America, and more than a few puritans believed the extermination of the natives was God’s will. Beyond that, “divide and conquer” has broadly been the American Bourgeoisie’s tactics for centuries, there’s an old quote from one of the capitalists of the gilded age out here that goes: “I could pay one half of the working class to kill the other.” I’m not sure if there’s any other nation in which the ruling class has so successfully turned the working class against itself. Not for extermination like Nazi Germany (at least I hope not) but rather to keep a constant tension between all groups high so they don’t get any bright ideas.

In fact, if I can tell you one thing about the U.S., the ruling class is so fucking good at playing up tensions that even when people recognize them for what they are, they still contribute to the problem. I’ve had plenty of conversations with white guys on the right who’ll say “what they (usually the left or black people) don’t understand is it’s not about race, it’s about money. You’ve got more in common with a black guy earning the same check as you than some rich white guy.” And then you talk to black people and you’ll hear basically the same thing mirrored. It’s insane. Everyone recognizes race as a problem, yet no one feels capable of overcoming it. And it’s almost always used to attack the left. In fact you’ve got these bizarre moments in American history where white reactionaries and black reactionaries can both agree to work together because they both despise the others race and want to segregate themselves, and then you have moments where steel strikes fell apart because of racism. Think about that for a moment. You’d have George Lincoln Rockwell, who was an open Nazi who compared Black people to monkeys and inspired followers to write about exterminating every non-white person on earth, and then you’d get the Nation of Islam that thought White people were soulless monsters created by an evil scientist, and they both sat in the same room and said “we both hate each other; let’s work together!”

In America they can convince the poor white guy that the Left will give everything he has to black people, and then tell the poor black guy that the left will give everything they’ve got to white people. Like if you want the best example of how poisonous the ideology of race is in America, research the Bernie Sanders campaign—both his first and second attempts in 2016 and 2020. He’s about as close to Lula as we got here at the moment and he’s basically a social democrat. So what did the democrats do? They smeared him as a sexist and racist. Hillary Clinton called young black men “super predators” and Biden opposed bussing black kids to school because he “didnt want his kids growing up in a racial jungle”, yet despite all that it was Bernie that was hit night after night with the racist and sexist allegations. They’d have BLM activists storm the stage to interrupt his speech. They’d have young black women sneer that he’s too afraid to talk about black issues. They’d have black scholars say he’s bad on race. And all this from a man who fought segregation! White people who might’ve voted for him saw images of him bowing his head in shame as activists stole the podium from him. Black people were given a barrage of “oh he’s a racist.”

In the end, thanks to the democratic political machine and the network of black activists they brought into their establishment, Bernie’s campaign completely fell apart.

>>2263411
>Go live in a “minority majority” neighborhood as a white person and get back to me if you still think white can’t be the victims of racism.
I do right now and it's pretty boring. I talk to a Thai guy about his garden while walking my dog and help an old black lady with her things sometimes. Actually the thing about it is that no ethnic group on the block has anything close to a majority and the immigrants from vaguely defined "races" are also from different countries.

>>2263494
>I think about racism in terms of imperialism because racism is largely just a cover for imperialism … There's also hegemonic whiteness and anti-white racism against white trash in the context of rural America.
Yeah. I think that plays a part, and also what "being white" means is really about being bourgeois, so it acts as a kind of ideological mapping in class society. Like, an anon mentioned Vivek Ramaswamy, and while he might not be fully considered white because he's from India, he's pointing to how Indian immigrants and their descendents get assimilated into whiteness (becoming bourgeois, which he is), although maybe whiteness is getting fuzzy or losing its meaning in some sense too, that might be possible.

>>2263520
>You’d have George Lincoln Rockwell, who was an open Nazi who compared Black people to monkeys and inspired followers to write about exterminating every non-white person on earth, and then you’d get the Nation of Islam that thought White people were soulless monsters created by an evil scientist, and they both sat in the same room and said “we both hate each other; let’s work together!”
I think those guys have something in common that's like "reactionary anti-capitalism." It seems rebellious but what they don't like about capitalism/modernization/etc. is the progressive parts of it which break up traditional structures that enslaved people to race / clan / tribe and so on. You can also see this in "white Sharia" stuff and Nazis who find an affinity with really reactionary Islamist groups like ISIS.

>>2263519
>the real victims of settler apartheid are Jews, right fellow Zionists? Its so scary to go to the periphery around our imperial core!
Well it's funny you mention this because apparently the idea of Jews being white is also relatively recent, in the U.S. it's a post-WWII phenomenon, or so I've read. Maybe some considered them white before then and others didn't, but it fits with my theory as Jews rose up in the American capitalist society, they underwent embourgeoisement, which is really what it meant to become "white."

Might have been a different story in British Mandate Palestine as well where Jewish communist farm kids were carrying out terrorist attacks on British forces late in the game (now a TeenNick show). They might look white to us, but British forces might not have thought of them that way at the time. Now it's 70+ years later and there's a lot more money in Israel, and it's a different kind of place with middle-class settlements that look like American suburbs spreading like weeds across the occupied West Bank.

racism is when you believe races are an objective measure of differing intelligence, etc, not when some arbitrary shit about power of oppression, so yes, there can be racism against any race

>>2263358
>Many leftists argue that anti-white racism can't exist because racism is prejudice + power
who? first of all, it would be weird for a marxist to talk about "power" in abstract at all, let alone when describing something systemic. the prejudices are a tool for the consolidation of existing systems, but are not indispensable. for example, expensive schools can be racially segregated even when there are no segregation laws (see most of latin america)

>>2263554
this is not the perspective of the left at all (what OP was asking)

>>2264192
>who? first of all, it would be weird for a marxist to talk about "power" in abstract at all, let alone when describing something systemic. the prejudices are a tool for the consolidation of existing systems, but are not indispensable. for example, expensive schools can be racially segregated even when there are no segregation laws (see most of latin america)

To be fair, "Racism = Power + Prejudice" was more in vogue in 2015 or so. Like the general gist of it kind of remains with the whole "woke" stuff, but the actual phrasing fell out of fashion.

When it was in fashion, it was a real pain in the ass. You'd see some stuff online that's just kind of explicitly racist or what have you, "I wish white people would just up and die already, we don't want to see you" kind of stuff, and if any white guy tried to respond with "Wow, that's racist" they'd be met with that annoying formula. I remember one person in particular boasted to me that they can't be racist, but they're proudly prejudiced against whites. It was bizarre to me, felt like a bunch of people just changed the definition of the word racism and then claimed theirs is the only objective interpretation of it.

>>2263352
+1 to all the obungler era "what if they do it to us", ressentemnt and steroertypes about white people exist but the real systematic racism has never been applied in the same way hegemonic white supremacy and its culture has exerted over the planet

>>2263335
more important than the french revolution tbh

>>2264272
Exactly, it's the difference between systems and interpersonal relations, which of course isn't to say they're totally applicable. One moment that stands out to me was when some autistic white kids was tortured by a few black kids who videotaped it. They were doing it, supposedly, 'cause of some BLM stuff going on IIRC. It was some "racial revenge" kind of deal. I think it can be argued that kid dealt with a particularly vicious kind of anti-white racism, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

>>2264192
>the perspective of the left
Who cares about the "perspective" of mouthbreathing inbreds? I'm here to discuss communism, not vibes.

>>2263075
WHAT COUNTRY
THE USA IS NOT THE DEFAULT COUNTRY
GOD DAMN IT

>>2263075
It shows how effective the cointelpro campaign against the panther party was by the conversion of the bpp from a group that saw the economic foundations of racism and the centrality of class struggle into their opposite in the common consciousness. People are complaining that you can't equate black racism with white racism, even though that's exactly what the panthers did. They said you don't fight fires with fires, and specifically critiqued "cultural nationalists".

>>2263075
There's different kinds of racism.
There's individual racism which involves slurs, hate crimes, dissociation, stereotypes, essentialism, etc.
Then there's systemic racism where power structures discriminate against certain racial/ethnic groups and lead to a power imbalance. For example redlining (denying loans based on place of residence, which was highly correlated with race) against the American black community leading to a massive wealth disparity (most white Americans' wealth comes from their home).
White people in the west can suffer from the former but do not suffer from the latter.
Keep in mind DEI, affirmative action, whatever you want to call it, is/was an attempt to counteract nepotism.

>>2264806
>People are complaining that you can't equate black racism with white racism, even though that's exactly what the panthers did. They said you don't fight fires with fires, and specifically critiqued "cultural nationalists".
Huh? I don't think the Black Panthers ever equated the kind of institutional racism blacks faced with individual racism a white person could face. If whites faced the same kind of institutional racism, there would be no point to black panthers having to take up defense for black communities. Of course that didn't entail crass individual racism against other groups, or becoming nationalists, but it also didn't mean blinding oneself to the differences that blacks faced versus whites. Solidarity was critical because it attacked the very structure upon which institutional racism itself was built upon and propagated. Cultural nationalism was critiqued because it obfuscated the revolutionary struggle by trying to "resolve" the struggles of blacks by means of "rewriting" or "reorienting" black history, such in a way as to impress colonial and captialist sensibilities, and thus incorporate it into the global capitalist system, rather then fully recognizing the dire straits that black people find themselves in and prescribing revolutionary solutions. And I don't understand the use of Malcolm X for the meme, because he was explicitly clear that the racism blacks faced was much a different monster then that whites faced.

>>2264905
>racism is when bad things happen to black people
audible groan

>>2263075
white doesn't exist independently its a shifting category that really means colorless where colored means underclass for capitalist exploitation. white is more like 'default' in opposition to a nebulous 'other'. its not really a thing to systemically discriminate against the default, by definition. flat oppression against all sure but racism towards whites is like saying indiscriminate discrimination

race itself is really a psuedoscientific justification for capitalism in the first place and was initially conceived post-enlightenment as an ad hoc way to describe the way things are without investigating the historical forces that led us to the current state of things essentially putting the cart before the horse and working backwards from conclusions to explain why europe is the bestest and smartest

>>2263117
>so if black people were the ones in power
yeah but that would be a change in all of history. im not sure it really counts if you were to go to africa and people are mean to you for having white skin its just a sort of racialist prejudice. also historic discrimination on the basis of skin color wouldn't be racism related to the above its not raciism unless its a (psuedo)scientific justification for capitalism. you cant have race without science so you cant have racism pre-enlightenment making it a category specific to capitalism mode

>>2263321
social constructs have real consequences tho, like money

>>2263494
>So for example, anti-white racism in India is technically a thing I guess
idk about that but i agree about imperialism

>>2263519
>Vivek Ramaswamy, maybe lol
Yeah i could see a future anti-white racism where indians colonize america and do a great replacement lmao but the fundamental thing wouldn't take away should not be racial panic but of course anti-capitalism. lots of brahmins in positions of power but i would just do a find and replace in "on the jewish question" because the problem is that capitalism makes untouchables of us all not the color of the capitalists.

>>2264251
>"Racism = Power + Prejudice"
I think it has the effect of making it relative and interpersonal instead of highlighting that power is ownership of the means of production on not just being the most popular in your discord group or whatever. Doesn't make sense to me to say that a colonized people is racist against their colonizers either even if some of the colonized might be well off or the majority in a particular situation, like beating up a colonial cop in a market, or muslims outnumbering israelis being reported as "racism" because they have the power of the majority locally or regionally while discounting power internationally.

I'm trying to wrestle how to express myself as a "white" person from a place that never engaged in slavery of the global south.
A German is as prejudiced against Turks and Arabs as he is prejudiced against Slavs and Romanians. Which is to say, the German is prejudiced towards virtually all immigrants irrespective of their skin color. The difficulties of dealing with bureaucracy in Germany, already a headache for Germans, is turbocharged for immigrants and again irrespective of skin color.

This makes sense. Germany was never much of a colonial power. The peak of German colonial power was Hitler's regime colonizing Europe itself.

Which is to say, there is no such thing as white supremacy in Germany. There is arguably German supremacy, though.

The way white supremacy is talked about is as if it's a universal phenomenon. As if every country had a Black underclass, oppressed by Yankee rednecks.

How do I conclude this. "Chauvinism doesn't only exist in America, and America is not the world?" Thank you Sherlock Holmes, louder for the people in the back.

>>2265461
uygha there's literal white supremacist Nazis in Germany. Wtf are you talking about. Does Namibia ring a bell?
I don't even know what the purpose of your mental gymnastics is, but it sounds mega German, so congrats on being integrated.

The liberal German figured out a way to feel sorry for its sin, then feel (morally) superior to the unwashed global south because of their superiority, to then proceed to lecture them and fund genocide of them. Not only that, they also managed to make their own crimes an opportunity to jack themselves off, by creating a shit ton of refugees and then putting them in a horrible state of precarious limbo, unable to work, unable to integrate.

You managed to white wash the German genocides and colonial slaver shit, and then somehow placed yourself in a "humble" position inside of it all. Real christian shit right there.

Racism in the likes of how black had? No. Hate? Yes, from time to time you see replies or thread of people outright saying to kill white people, kill "crackka" or plain hate against white in general, usually the poster is black or muslim that post those hate against white people.

>>2265500
>Nazis
Planned and partially executed the genocide of Eastern Europeans. Calling Nazis white supremacists is peak burger brain. Maybe your homegrown KKK Nazis are white supremacists, America is not the world.
>Namibia
What do you think "not much of a colonial power" means?

>>2265545
very true
the "aryan" identity was not "white". whiteness is an anglo concept. its like when people reference the greeks and romans as "western" rather than mediteranean. people also forget that the roman "barbarians" were germans.

>>2265560
Just like how in Japan we cannot speak of "Asian supremacy", but we can speak of Japanese supremacy
And like Germany, the historical development is almost mirrored barring Japan starting earlier. Japan colonized Asia. Germany colonized Europe.

>>2263411
>Go live in a “minority majority” neighborhood as a white person and get back to me if you still think white can’t be the victims of racism.
Bigotry =/=racism

Anyone who says there is no such thing as racism against White people is probably a racist themselves.

>>2265687
I don't think there is racism against white in the way that blacks has(d), what I do see mostly online is hate against white people, people that say that "white should be killed" or "kill crackkka" or "white people should be beating", those mostly come from black, muslim, and I see those type of hate here on LeftyPol too.

>>2263140
>I think systems can extend beyond just the faces of the people in power.


Conversely, this is why I think anti white racism can exist.

You'll see pockets of anti white racism in places. Let's say a white dude got targeted and killed because they were white. That's clearly racism backing power to cause a heinous act.

The response to this will be "but that's not systemic". But then this sort of thinking implies that systemic or cultural norms can only ever be all or nothing, as if racism is just one big light switch you can turn off.

Social structures are not all or nothing. White supremacy existing as the dominant racially charged ideology of our time does not preclude other forms existing too.



the fact that it's isolated into small pockets of society doesn't change the fact that f

>>2265670
whats the difference between racial bigotry and racism?

>>2263075
> does racism against white people exist or is it just hatred or does it not exist at all like many leftists say?
Honestly that’s a good question, because I’m not sure if hatred of white people is really systematic or widespread like hatred of black people or any other racialized group of people is. And by this I don’t mean state backed violence I actually mean the fact that there’s not a meaningful culture of hatred for white people when there actually is, say, a global culture of hatred for African peoples, with even countries that barely have black people and didn’t participate in the slave trade like Japan, China, and South Korea having racist caricatures of black people being depicted. There are a lot of individual people that hate white people, but I wouldn’t even say it raises to the level of a culture of hatred, and there isn’t really an ideology of hatred against whiteness other than something like Nation of Islam, and even then, those people hate black queer people and women more than they hate white people.

>>2268198
I’d say racism is deeply ideological while racial bigotry is more inchoate

>>2268207
so when does anti-white bigotry become racism?

>>2268202
Yes, they're all or nothing in practice, retard
Because the white supremacist american state has a monopoly on violence in the us, and no amount of random violent outbursts changes that

>>2268233
>no amount of random violent outbursts changes that

Such thinking is nihilistic and pessimistic and downright dangerous, when you imply that white supremacy is total and blanketing and that nothing else in terms of racially charged violence can exist, you give it an ideological power beyond its proponents wildest dreams

>>2268218
When it’s an actual system of bigoted beliefs and articulated theories about white people

>>2268405
and hypothetically, what would that look like?

>>2268405
>material reality changes when ideals and theory
jfc lmao

Reminder that class struggle is a prerequisite to overcoming racism.

>does racism against white people exist
Yes but racism is not when edgy jokes on the internet, and this goes for all sides.

>>>/leftypol/2268420
poor reading comprehension

>>2268420
Ideas and theories are a part of material reality

>>2268648
thats not what idealism means

>>2268722
I know
You tried to state my point about racism vs racial bigotry was implicitly idealist
Explaining the difference between racist ideology and inchoate racial bigotry isn’t idealist, I don’t think you know what idealism is