/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

There’s literally no point to being a communist if you live in the imperial core, I’ll happily serve as a Capo when the army of the JDPON comes but any materialist reading of conditions within the metropole tell you that class struggle within said metropole only creates reactionary outcomes.

brb preparing to loudly tell my family that they're all bourgeois lickspittles for eating pizza (bourgeois decadence)

>>2281416
you, personally, are the reactionary outcomes

>>2281419
I am a product of my environment like anything else, the soil here is poisoned at its core, it can only be destroyed from without, not from within. Trying to apply Mao’s words in a non semi colonial semi feudal context is the real liberalism.

>>2281422
Then pick something else than dumb-ass Maoism.

>>2281430
NOTHING WORKS DUMBASSS, if any tendency had the ability to succeed in the imperial core they would have by now, they haven’t so they can’t

>>2281435
wowzers nothing more revolutionary than doomerism amarite fellow non-fbi agents

>>2281435
NTA but I think that's just self defeating and counterproductive. The real reason "nothing works" is because westerners are addicted to viewing ideological tendencies as sports teams in perpetual conflict with other competing leftist tendencies and wont budge on anything, even small issues of semantics. A revolution in America will be shaped by its material conditions and it will adapt and change itself as the revolution progresses, as is the nature of putting ideas into practice. No one tendency is going to "work", what we need is a unique synthesis that accounts for our position rather than pretending this is Russia in 1905 and we're all competing to be the next Lenin

>>2281412
>To be among the masses and fail to conduct propaganda and agitation or speak at meetings or conduct investigations and inquiries among them, and instead to be indifferent to them and show no concern for their well-being, forgetting that one is a Communist and behaving as if one were an ordinary non-Communist.
You can do that without being an explicit communist, most people agree on stuff you say (the 1%, workplace democracy, national industry) until you say the big scary word "socialism" and the prejudices that comes with it. So hiding the hammers and sickles is a good strategy actually, at the time of that quote communism was a quirky new thing but now it carries a lot of baggage and defamation
>>2281416
<i'll sit on my ass while i let those thirdies do the work for me
>>2281435
Socialist sympathies are steadily growing in the west what are you on

>>2281435
>if any tendency had the ability to succeed in the imperial core they would have by now
Do I even have to explain why "if it didnt happen in the past it can never happen" is an incredibly stupid though process?

>>2281449
We had the biggest riots in our history in 2020 along with multiple breakdowns in capitalism, all that struggle only strengthened the system and played into culture war

>>2281447
I’d move out if I had the money

>>2281412
The people are liberal because the material conditions render them impotent, only when capitalism is weaken will their consciousness rise

>>2281449
When a plant fails to grow, do you blame the plant or investigate the soil?

>>2281416
>here’s literally no point to being a communist if you live in the imperial core
yes there is
>I’ll happily serve as a Capo when the army of the JDPON comes
you're such a treatlerite liberal that you will OUTSOURCE the job of building up a party and IMPORT the revolution… good thing it doesn't work that way! No, you can't get peripheral proles to do this one for you. They'll mine the quartz in your computer but they aren't going to sublate the mode of production for you.

>>2281455
Then they struggle for higher wages and to have the costs of living shifted onto others, in the process making themselves petit bourgeois

>>2281457
> No, you can't get peripheral proles to do this one for you. They'll mine the quartz in your computer but they aren't going to sublate the mode of production for you.
Then communism simply isn’t getting done, period

>>2281453
Investigate. I wouldnt conclude horticulture is fake.

>>2281457
Dis Nazi germany get overthrown by communist germans or did a DOTP from outside overthrow that government?

>>2281463
When the soil is poisoned, there’s no work to do

I am so glad nihilist posting is being exposed for the reactionary nonsense it is recently. That recent failed bombing really put a dent into their rep. And with conditions ripening, their popularity and influence wanes evermore.

>>2281467
How did it get poisoned? What poison? How do we unpoison it? I am not getting much of an investigative mindset from you.

>>2281471
That anon has a childish outlook of life. When children have problems, they throw a tantrum and wait for an adult to fix it for them.

Adults on the other hand see problems and look for ways to solve them, and for ways to adapt.

>>2281466
start building the resistance then. You're just looking to feel good about not doing jackshit for the movement

>>2281471
In the case of the US it’s settler colonialism combined with the spoils of imperialism, an ever expanding frontier to export social conflict and an infinite ability to kick the can down the road, all political activity funneling itself back into the party duopoly.

>>2281473
Imperial core proles fundamentally do not have the same interests as those in the periphery

>>2281483
"First world evil, third world good" - Lenin probably

>>2281481
You are still to investigate anything, you just repeat words and phrases you heard somewhere else, some of them with no relation to what we discuss.

>>2281486
You are not going to convince American workers to cut off their access to commodities made through slave labor, that’s what communism would result in

>>2281489
Which commodities would americans lose access to under communism?

>>2281412
Nobody trained me on that

>>2281491
Anything not manufactured in the US, which is the vast majority of consumer goods, only 18% of working Americans are employed in manufacturing. These are not jobs that the average American has the mental or physical fortitude to take on.

>>2281478
German resistance did not make any dent in the nazi regime or war machine

>>2281494
Political candidates in US run on "bring back manufacturing" agenda. Lying through their teeth of course, but it shows manufacturing jobs are desired by public.

>meetings
>agitation
>propaganda
> conduct investigations
Implies we all have access or means to do any of these

>>2281505
Anyone that has internet has access to 3/4 out of those

>>2281509
The internet is shouting into a void that also mirrors your own ego, you aren’t communicating with actual people 3/4 of the time. It’s a pure skinner box, nothing can come out of it except for schizophrenia.

>>2281509
Alas I have only 500 followers so using my platform to rail against people for not being communists (and if they are communists, not being the right kind) will not reach the masses

>>2281517
Even reaching one single person is one single person that isn't reactionary deadweight. I'll never forget that I was spouting reactionary bullshit in the MapleStory marketplace several years ago when a random girl talked me into becoming a communist. I will never forget it, It taught me right away that taking the time can make a difference and changed my life for the better by perma unchudding me.

>So what's your excuse anon? why are you a liberal?
Because I am so completely alienated from other people including ones who used to be my friends that I fucking hate other people and wish harm upon them, anon. That is why I do not care to act. That is why I don't act. I am selfish, I don't think much of the rest of you who have done nothing for me except with a punishment on the side with the scraps I'm tossed.

The working class are docile, timid and satisfied with very little. They are weak-willed and feeble-minded. They do not have sympathy for the bottom of the barrel below them, especially if employed. Employment of any sort for any job at this time over here makes one a labor aristocrat and a likely collaborator with the right wing govt by default. They are also too merciful for me and gladly accept their subjugation.

Not to mention the collective autism score of half the anons responding to a leftypol thread like this one barely reaches 80. It's not like you yourselves take leftism or revolution seriously or really anything else for that matter. Since capitalism doesn't really seem that serious, more like a joke, doesn't seem worth it to really fight it. I mean, if all this is is a hobby to you then you are worse than my convictionless ass by pretending to care.

Speaking of docile and timid, union bosses here are sweating due to possible rising militancy within the main trade union federation, because people are leaving the unions. That said, the 'militancy' they talk about is misleading and has nothing to do with violence. Our workers are not violent and will choose status quo rather than killing their owners and masters.

Before you call out excuses, you are ears deep in the same individualistic atomization that you will diagnose in me and likely even more than me, because I do not live in the Anglosphere. This can all be solved with blades and bullets, but without mettle is just adventurism and cheering on more workers getting killed.

>>2281496
What German resistance? There was NO GERMAN RESISTANCE UNDER THE THIRD REICH, just like there is no internal resistance to the State of Israel among its Israeli population. They do not resist it, because THEY SUPPORT IT.

>So what's your excuse anon? why are you a liberal?
I don't know how to talk to people, much less talk to people about politics.
I'd like to learn how, though. Any advice is appreciated.

>>2282115
Sorry that your friends turned out to be lumpenproles.

The lesson here is to stop treating everyone as if they have agency by default. Just keep smiling and choosing the right dialogue options until they prove they're not NPCs.

>>2282124
What are you smuggling, uyghur?

>>2281416
And once again, here we have proof that so many western (American) "leftists" still have a spooked protestant christian mindset. Treating "JDPON" as their own version of "The Rapture". Not to mention Blaming all "white people" for the actions of a tiny sliver of Monarchs, Plutocrats and the Bourgeoisie.

Like what >>2281441 said. A Revolution in America will be shaped by it's material conditions. America will need it's own unique synthesis that accounts for America as it is now instead of LARPing the October Revolution like it's still 1905.

>So what's your excuse anon?
Well to that, I raise this question: How do you attempt to organize & agitate in a small, well-knit town where everyone has known each other for years and you're an outsider who settled there recently after a lifetime of moving from place to place growing up? Not to mention without having the proper skill set to explain & execute IRL everything that I know and have learned and while having life experiences & skills completely different to that of everyone living in my part of the country.

I know the people here at least somewhat decently yes, but I don't know anyone well enough and they don't know me well enough for me to do any sort of local organizing without making folks raise eyebrows and question my credibility and motives if I actually try to delve into Marxist theory and the history of socialism and socialist organizing with them. Especially given that I live in an area where it's ridiculously easy to find a TV tuned to FOX News.

Plus there's a whole slew of personal stuff on my end that I'd rather not further elaborate on since this is a chan website on the internet ffs and I'm not that retarded.

I don't think a lot of you faggots realize that about half of the United States is basically incapable of acting in its own material interests even when they are very directly feeling the pain from reaction in the US. Republican constituents are largely in the rural parts of the US that have been hurt the most by capitalism and reactionary ideology, and they still vote for Republicans because most of them are being propagandized by Fox News and don't watch anything else. I forget the exact number but a large portion of the US reads at a sixth grade level; many Americans are taught literal creationism in schools to this day. it's not that leftists are just not trying hard enough, it's that the US has been slowly and (until recently) quietly preparing for the eventual decay of the US empire by destroying the organized left, making everyone stupider and less able to think beyond instant gratification which until very recently was the main thing keeping Americans at best largely center-left: give them (increasingly smaller) spoils of imperialism to keep them too complacent to feel any immediate need to be engaged with politics beyond the most superficial team sports bullshit. as this has fallen apart and Americans have become more broadly immiserated, the shift has been towards propaganda, making everyone even stupider and angrier over culture war bullshit, which has only gotten worse thanks to the algorithmic social media platforms that have become Fox News reactionary propaganda on steroids with even more addictive feedback loops.

all of this is the direct consequence of a global imperialism hegemon founded on settler-colonialism acting in the interests of its capitalist ruling class in a fairly unique way of giving its subjects historically unprecented consumption power, labor aristocratic super wages, and the ability to own property. that's been the long con for destroying the left in the US and also grooming Americans into being either totally demoralized and immiserated when they have the most material reason to rebel, particularly black Americans who routinely get executed by cops, or otherwise into voting in increasingly far right Republicans despite it being directly against their class interests and harming them.

now the thing is none of you faggots ever present a real critique of any of this shit or knowledge of how we got here, certainly not how the left is supposed to work within the material conditions of what are essentially Nazi Germany if it was vastly more successful and powerful. the best we can hope for is that the far right makes things bad enough that the propaganda starts to not be enough to trick people into thinking transgender mice experiments are the reason why there are no hospitals less than an hour's driving distance or why they can't put food on the table or get jobs or rent/buy a home because everything has become a totalized zero sum condition of imperialism being turned inwards and killing everyone en masse besides billionaires. but considering how deeply hitlerite the AmeriKKKan unconscious is, I wouldn't bet on that either; many AmeriKKKans have the mentality of a toddler and would rather see their neighbors suffer more than them than realize they should desire to live and be happy and not die from preventable illnesses or go into debt for the rest of their lives. you reap what you sow when the soil is reddened with the blood of literally millions of genocided native peoples.

>>2282149
>now the thing is none of you faggots ever present a real critique of any of this shit or knowledge of how we got here, certainly not how the left is supposed to work within the material conditions of what are essentially Nazi Germany if it was vastly more successful and powerful.
Correct. Yours is a cesspit and your American anons bathe in the raw sewage they themselves spew forth on here.

>>2281416
>There’s literally no point to being a communist if you live in the imperial core.
Outside of sabotaging the imperialist project, aiding workers who still suffer under capitalism, and spread propaganda for imperial core proles to put pressure on their own institutions.

Loser.

>>2282149
>. Republican constituents are largely in the rural parts of the US that have been hurt the most by capitalism and reactionary ideology, and they still vote for Republicans
rural proletarians (undocumented people working on farms) don't vote. the rural republican constituency is small business owners, rural home owners who commute to the city for work, remote work software people, agribusiness owners, etc.

Anyway your analysis is silly because it's not just muh republicans. voting for either bourgeois party is self harm

>>2282180
oh yeah I forgot that illiterate peasants in Russia and China were also glued 24/7 (and increasingly from birth) to algorithmic fascist propaganda devices that are literally designed to be addictive and completely distort people's perceptions of reality in a way that effectively functions as creating mass clinical psychosis

>>2282184
it doesn't follow from anything I'm saying that vooting for Democrats would be anything other than hitting the brakes on the descent towards an openly fascist state instead of an imperialist one with various internal colonies but I know if you retards don't have some radlib pseudo-leftist controlled opposition to attack that is extremely easy to critique then your illiterate armchair circlejerk falls apart because none of you do anything other than argue about the same inane bullshit that people on this shithole have been arguing about for a decade. I don't expect an anonymous Chinese shadow puppetry forum to be a vanguard or anything but holy shit literally read like anything you claim to believe in

>>2282149
Believe me, I understand the reactionary nature of many Americans. I can't say I know what to do about it though.

>>2282220
I don't think any of us have the answers to this because it's a fairly historically unprecedented problem where a global empire is not just an existential threat to the various oppressed nations it exploits but to all life on earth, but the sooner we do away with this "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" vibes-based naive optimism and engage in honest critique, the better off we will be to figure out what the fuck to do. unless you happen to be a petit bourg middle class person, it literally is necessary for all of us to not die or be imprisoned that we take this extremely dire situation seriously and analyze the particular material conditions of the US and our time in world history in general (which has mutated beyond mere capitalism to a nascent techno-feudalist nightmare), the better equipped we'll be to survive it. this requires that we figure out ways of organizing effectively, but all this nonsense about how we just really need to figure out how to mobilize the temporarily embarrassed descendants of white settlers who are committed to the fascist suicidal death spiral the US is locked in is not just naive but literally doesn't even follow any kind of organizational tactic.

I'm not a Leninist but even anarchists should recognize the need for building the subjective forces and establishing a serious vanguard sort of organization. the left in the US is so completely far off from having any idea what the fuck it's doing, we're not even fucking close to being able to organize the workers but the increased immiseration of first world workers could as I mentioned above be a potential wedge to push on. but we need to get beyond a more serious level of organization than bickering on imageboards or soying out on social media about how bad things are bad. there's such a ridiculous amount of cleaning our own house that needs to happen to make the left a relevant political force again in the US and not just a broad but completely unfocused and demoralized sentiment in roughly half of the population.

>>2281483
Moralism

>>2282318
Having vastly more wages, purchasing power, and ability to invest whether it’s in petty stocks, crypto rugpulls, or small time drug dealing isn’t moralism, it’s reading reality

>>2281416

75$ USD is more than a full time worker's monthly income in much of Africa. At the very least you can donate a few bucks to your third world comrades.

I call this phenomena Maoist First Wordism

>random person from 1st world starts reading and applying socialist theory to there day to day life
>expect said random person is a member of the more priviliged sections of their country(i.e. petty bourgeois/labor aristocrat/intelligentsia in marxist jargon and/or upper middle class white picket surburbanite honkeys in colloquial jargon)
>as a result of there social milieu being comprised of the most reactionary,entitled and annoying segments of there home country and there lack of experience outside this bubble they think every person in the 1st world must be as awful as there peer group.

There's a reason the stereotypical third worldist is a radlibbed up college student and not a member of the NPA and a reason why these threads essentially devolve into one sheltered anon vs. everyone else explaining to them that not every single 1st worlder is 4 car mcmansion dweller that owns a skeedoo dealership

>>2282184
non-voters are the majority of the US population and also our only hope imho.

>>2282970

>every single 1st worlder is 4 car mcmansion dweller that owns a skeedoo dealership

This is a strawman though.

In fact, it makes sense if you are a first world worker that you would make such a strawman.

Let me explain: It takes a certain threshold of wealth to be able to afford a trip to a third world country.

Anyone who has actually been to a third world country and stepped out of the tourist zones knows that the poverty is incomparably worse.

One can acknowledge that the bottom fifth or quarter of the first world population has to live scrapping by huddled with roommates in a single bedroom apartment, dependent on gov welfare for any health emergency. This is however not at all the same (at best) as living in a slum, stealing electricity and boiling your water if you can get any, with at best a severely understaffed, underequipped completely pay out of pocket clinic a few kms away.

Its a kind of wealth privilege irony: One requires a certain amount of wealth to have the possibility of witnessing radical deprivation in order actually look into (and question) the data on living stds worldwide.

>>2282987

*in order to have the life experience & emotional motivation to look into and take seriously

>>2281412
I'm an intern at a small buisness. They can kick me out quite easily and I need to pay for groceries. I don't exactly have state support behind my back.

>>2282987
>Its a kind of wealth privilege irony: One requires a certain amount of wealth to have the possibility of witnessing radical deprivation in order actually look into (and question) the data on living stds worldwide.


I mean your not wrong it was me making up a strawman of your stereotypical 1st worlder in the eyes of third-worldist types. Your explanation is interesting cuz ur right that I have never traveled outside the US to global south areas with kind of slums and favelas your speaking on and will most likely never have the time and money to do so. Maybe internet access will alleviate the problem somewhat(like how its basically impossible to completely censor war crimes happening in Gaza of the internet) but thats just wishful thinking.

>>2281416
Was Baldy right all along?

>>2283269
He also plotted a coup against Mao and crashed a plane while drunk

>>2282258
I should preface this by stating I am a white guy, but I agree that chasing after reactionaries and trying to win them over is a losing game. Of course, I live in an area populated mostly by reactionaries so that leaves me in a tight spot.
Personally, I think at the very least we need to appeal to people's self-interest in a constructive way. So much of the left in the USA seems to simply view things as abstractions. There's really no material goals presented. In many ways, I think that's what made Sanders so popular. He appealed to people's material needs. That's what we need to do.

>>2283398
Mao led a succesful revolution and -unlike the soviet union- socialist china is still standing. Admit it, you're just a lazy ass looking for excuses to permasit on your ass while in reality you just have a hobby larping as a communist for having an autistic special interest in reading books. The liberal understanding of communism is that its a dogma that you learn rather than something in any way related to acting and doing.

Doing as little as what Mao states in combat liberalism is the bare minimum. There's no valid excuse for doing not even that.

Honestly? I'm a coward. That's really what it boils down to.

>>2283412
Then make an effort in being less cowardly, or towards being more courageous (which is not the abscence of fear, but acting in spite of it). I was also super fucking cowardly at some point but one day I said "you know what? enough of taking a liberal attitude towards myself and just letting my mistakes be even though I'm aware of them".

And this was because taking such an attitude towards myself only made me a self hating person. I hated myself because I was not the person I wanted to be and I wasn't acting towards the life or society that I wanted. Feeling like aimless deadweight is ass, and in the long run thats the way anyone who takes a liberal attitude towards anything will feel. Just look at all the nihilism everywhere.

Later -as I developed- my reasons became less individualistic and personal and more collective. This is growing into a real person and what liberalism takes away from everyone. Take it back!

You can do better, you can be better. It's within your grasp even if now it feels impossible.

I havent finished getting my life together enough to be a worthy ally to anyone yet. But im well on the path

>>2283416
Okay anon I'll work on it.
>>2283418
Yeah my life is a mess too. Trying to work on that as well.

>>2283269
the whole revolution starting from the country districts theory that third worldism originally started from is a worthwhile hypothesis in my eyes, my copypasta is moreso aimed at a particular type of armchairism I've noticed.

>>2281458
Those this bitch even know how basic capitalism functions? Why would a capitalist employ a worker to pay him.more than the value the worker produces for him?

>>2282115
> Having a job makes you a labour aristocrat


> Not to mention the collective autism score of half the anons responding to a leftypol thread like this one barely reaches 80
Yeah because you just score in the negative

>>2283599
With the supply of reserve laborers having vastly exceeded the demand thereof, yes. Yes it does over here.

>>2283595
Bribing a minority of workers to prevent them from revolting. It's why police unions still exist in countries where unionization rates have fallen into the abyss.

>>2283269
Eastern Asia has pretty much joined the level of city of the world by now. That text is 20-30 years out of date by now

>>2283600
1. Jesse, if the reserve army of labour is larger than what porky needs, then why would they pay the worker more?
2. That's a fleeing situation that will last a few years in a sector at best, for the very simple reason that porky hates that and will find a way to tilt the market again in it's favour either by automation or by inflating the labor pool.

>>2283601
A minority which peaked in size a 50 years ago and has shrinked ever since

>>2283604
1. Paying anything at all as opposed to nothing because your ass ain't employed already is paying them more in practice, you div
2. The situation getting worse doesn't change the nature of the situation itself, whether or not said aristocrats will be in rags, because those below them will be in less than.

>>2283603
ok change it to south asia africa and latin america

>>2283609
n>0

>>2282970
>lack of experience outside this bubble
Palestinians just need to make friends with their satanic settler oppressors, its actually privileged for them to not want to walk up to the ghetto fence. Universal healthcare is possible if we convince enough Jews that their nonwhite slaves deserve it!

>>2284021
have fun making up more people to argue against lmk when you ready to talk to an actual real life person lmao

how will I free Palestine if I am not a liberal?

>'the masses' rhetoric
yet more proof mao was a shitlib

>>2285653
It's a privilege afforded to the few. You also have people who aren't paid working and just people out of a job. I don't understand why you feel the need to drum up some outrage out of that simple fact. Employed workers are at a privileged position relative to the aforementioned jobless as well as students and unpaid laborers, including chronically unemployed people put into rehabilitation programs, disabled people, immigrants and I would even argue soldiers especially in the United States military.

>>2286361
students are the bourgeois of the future, shut the fuck up idiot. just imagine comparing this group to the disabled and other people who are unable to work holy shit

>>2281412
>>2286385
you arent supposed to attach a political catechism to every single thing you say lol

in the case of the proletariat, its not about preaching to them its about necessity. their material conditions drive them to act

now im not saying the labor movement doesnt need education it absolutely does. but that education has to go hand in hand with active participation in the struggle. the proletariat learn the most through their direct experiences, and as they come to understand their real interests, they tend to align with communist more organically

that kind of connection simply doesnt usually happen with other classes. other classes are in a position where theyre not driven to participate in the same way

>>2286377
5 to 7 years of free labor vs. a wage every month. Go choke on a gourd, you fucking anencephalic infant, and go outside and talk to people. Trash like you makes the sewer I live in a perfumes store at the mall.

>>2281412
>So what's your excuse anon? why are you a liberal?
Sperging out to family and friends or even worse random people about communism is not only harmful but also waste of time. Good propaganda is viral memes etc. mass marketing methods.