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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Not reporting is bourgeois


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Title says it all. Martov's hysteria and swampification of the menshevik wing pushed it into an opportunistic alliance with the counterrevolutionary forces. But this does not invalidate menshevik tactics. These are informed by the pre-2nd Int'l German SPD. The kernel of menshevik policy really is in the membership rules. Leninism/bolshevism opts out for professional revolutionaries, financial and organizational support while menshevism opts for financial or organizational support. But bolshevik tactics were suited for a, say, Russian autocracy or Yugoslavian monarchofascism, or Mongolia even; not in 'democratic' western European states. The Brussels/London congress demarcated the tactics for the 'west' (democracies) and 'east' (autocracies).

Which brings me to the main point. Menshevik tactics seem to be historically good when there is actual political and organizational freedom and when they are used with genuine anti-imperialist sentiment.
>the PKI (Indonesian communist party) did not consider itself subordinate to any foreign party.⁷ By then, it was the third-largest communist party in the world—after those of China and the Soviet Union—and the largest outside them. Its strategy of nonviolent, grassroots engagement had yielded considerable success. The party counted over three million official members. Organizations affiliated with the PKI—including SOBSI (Central All-Indonesian Workers Association), LEKRA (People’s Cultural Institute), BTI (Barisan Tani Indonesia), Pemuda Rakyat (People’s Youth), and Gerwani (Women’s Movement)—had an estimated combined membership of at least twenty million.
>Altogether, nearly a quarter of Indonesia’s population of one hundred million was connected to the PKI, and nearly a third of adult registered voters were affiliated with the party.⁸ The PKI operated openly and extensively throughout the country. However, at the national level, its influence over policy was almost entirely dependent on President Sukarno.
Okay, there's the immediate critique also. But I think that we should reevaluate menshevik contribution to the communist movement. Maybe instead of underground tactics we actually start building a genuine popular communist lead anti-imperialist movement. After all, Martov and Arkadieev were two organizers that shifted the RSDLP from circle organizing to factory agitation.

I've had similar thoughts before but don't bring them up here because you get screeched at

>>2285102
it's understandable. i'm not dismissive of lenin or stalin and their contributions, which are massive and in part universally applicable, but i think that we tend to forget that historically, communist organization and tactics are not linearly progressive and are informed by actual history 'on the ground'. it makes little sense today to continue some historical process that is already over (in particular, i'm critical of the people gravitating towards 'sovietism' as an one-size-fits-all solution to socialist construction and organization - even contemporary attempts to 'force' sovietism like in bavaria and hungary were doomed to fail because there never was a bavarian/hungarian 1905. to test out soviet organization; serbian students are organizing in soviet fashion for half a year already, and that was only possible because they had some 10+ years of testing these ideas).

organizationally and theoretically, i find myself repeating this, we are in the 1880s. there is spontaneous labor organizing and spontaneous antiimperialist struggle going on. these are interlinked, but instead of being 'asymptotically close' they are each going their own way, sometimes intersecting. there are outbursts of left terrorism and direct action is becoming more common. while we can operate legally, we have to get everyone involved in the struggle and once the communist movement is inevitably made illegal, we will have thousands of contacts and people on the ground for mobilization. does this make sense? i have no organization and must theorize.

>>2285112
>we are in the 1880s
Who do you mean by "we?"
You are wrong. Proletarian is better off than ever. Proletarian was fucked in 1880.

>>2285113
we, dumb dumb, those who think about the movement.

1880s = disorganization, lack of clarity, sponaneous action, transition from circle organizing to party building, many competing organizations, lack of coordination, class struggle transitioning from the sphere of ideas and intellectuals to practical worker organization

>we should reevaluate menshevik contribution to the communist movement.
Please. By all means. Elaborate on the great contributions of the mensheviks

>>2285115
please. read the op.
>After all, Martov and Arkadieev were two organizers that shifted the RSDLP from circle organizing to factory agitation.
if you do not know why this was important for the entire movement then you need to read the first few chapters of the history of the all-union party again.

>Maybe instead of underground tactics we actually start building a genuine popular communist lead anti-imperialist movement

But this is what Marxist-Leninists are already (trying) to do, at the same time as underground work is done. You are falling for 'movementism', where you are fetishising this nebulous movement that doesn't actually mean anything and might not have a proletarian leadership.

>>2285122
>fetishising this nebulous movement
what do you mean? i'm not advocating spontaneity.

>>2285100
Its funny that people are still simping for Marxism-Leninism when there is no CPSU to simp for.

>>2285116
>history of the all-union party again
Wrong. The relevant chapters are basically shitting on menshevik and explaining how everything they did, even before split, was wrong. When any menshevik is named, it is to explain why they were a dumbass—why menshevik wrong and why boleshevik was correct.
>shifted the RSDLP from circle organizing to factory agitation.
wow they passed out pamphlets. big deal. the mensheviks were libtards. "factory agitation" was not menshevik, but bolshevik innovation. The St. Petersburg League of Struggle for the Emancipation of the Working Class, which Lenin formed in i895 and which started mass agitation among the workers and led mass strikes, marked a new stage — the transition to mass agitation among the workers and the union of Marxism with the working-class movement. The St. Petersburg League of Struggle for the Emancipation of the Working Class was the rudiment of a revolutionary proletarian party in Russia. The formation of the St. Petersburg League of Struggle was followed by the formation of Marxist organizations in all the principal industrial centres as well as in the border regions.

Fascism doesn’t get a bad enough rep actually

Still no eagleposting

Carl Marks says that history is materialism and there four that means that whoever wins was right. This is why I became a neocon after the fall of the soviet union.

Every modern "Marxist-Leninist" is a menshevist

Post-1956 ussr was a menshevik regime

If you want to make a defense of Menshevik style tactics then the PKI is probably the worst possible example you could use. They stuck doggedly to this approach even as the early warning signs of the impending military crackdown started to show themselves. Mao repeatedly urged them to form armed cadres and establish an underground presence but they refused. As a result they were easily massacred and crushed despite their widespread popularity and robust organization. If the PKI had also pursued Bolshevik style organization at least in part then they could have survived underground and waged armed struggle against the Suharto regime.

>>2285301
>bolsheviks purge themselves for not being bolshevik enough
<the country menshevizes as a result
pottery like

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Don't talk to me about the PKI, it makes me sad

>another thread about the USSR

>>2285480
it was important mkay. imagine being born in 1918 and dying in 1990. you wouldn't have to worry about a world without it.

>>2285100
>ideas

>>2285480
If you want your country to get so many threads make it communist.

>>2285480
this is preussr history

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>>2285100
The problem with the mensheviks was fundamental: they weren't a working class party, but a party of petit bourgeois and labor aristocracy. This is reflected in their policies but more importantly, the results of their activity.
You can see this very clearly in today's western "leftism" since they never properly made the distinction: these people will push for liberalism time after time, failure after failure, and swallow all CIA propaganda ever made to be approachable to their idea of the "average person" (petit bourgeois lickspittle) - in reality they agree with it themselves, though, that's just their excuse when called out. Labor aristocracy has a very distinct "leftist" bias in the west and a very distinct liberal bias in eastern europe. It shows very clearly in areas where they are allowed to speak, such as media and science. That's because the working class in western countries never even came close enough to power for its enemies to realize that they are its enemies.
You are not even Marxist if you deny the historical role of the working class, and that's what every menshevik and "leftist" organization always does in practice.

too busy to read the rest right now:
>Maybe instead of underground tactics
Most of us live under liberalism. My party is legal and usually employs legal tactics (with exceptions). What possible benefit would underground tactics have in this situation?

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>>2286459
at some point, you're going to be a real pain in the ass to the capitalist class. at that point, they'll employ CIA-like measures like in brazil or indonesia to curb revolutionary communist sentiment. you'll be forced into illegality, even if for a small while, and if you don't know how to operate in those conditions - you're fucked

Modern communist are Marxist-Leninists but they have forgot why people supported this particular strand of communism.


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