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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1748766149476.jpg (698.63 KB, 1280x959, 1747087964342.jpg)

 

I spent 4 hours last night laughing with my organized Iraqi comrade about MLs, their infantile belief in the state, support for the most batshit reactionary groups in the region and their Lassallen tendency. We also had a laugh about Hakim's blatant chauvinism, inaction and grift.

Good times. Thanks for making my week bros. The real movement will crush all, promise.
333 posts and 60 image replies omitted.

>>2296607
>simping for capitalist states
Which capitalist states do they simp? I cant think of any

>>2296655
USSR, China, etc

>>2296618
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_camp
>Over time, Shachtman's aggressive calls for the defeat of official communist nations' expansionism (the second camp) drifted rightward into support for the capitalist nations (the first camp). That position has led orthodox Trotskyist groups to declare it reactionary.

>In 1961 Hal Draper criticized Shachtman's refusal to condemn the Bay of Pigs Invasion


Imagine holding positions 60+ years bunk and being owned by fucking Wikipedia.

>>2296677
the ussr doesn't exist, and china is a dotp so its not capitalist. like marx said dotp is the first phase of communist society, so china is communist.

>>2296684
>china is a dotp
we just sayin things now

>>2296684
>china is a dotp
>china is communist
do you know what the words dotp and communist even mean?

>>2296686
The New Democracy period in China ended with the GCPR, it’s been a DOTP ever since

>>2296686
do you?

>>2296683
Never ask a ML who invented the term campism

>>2296693
Even China doesn't consider itself Communist.
This is according to Professor Cheng Enfu, President of the Academy of Marxism at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (CASS) and Director of the Academic Division of Marxist Studies of CASS.
China divides their transitory timeline into 5 stages. These are:
>Modern Capitalism
>Primary Stage of Socialism
>Intermediate Stage of Socialism
>Advanced Stage of Socialism
>Communism
China considers itself to be in it's "Third Era" since the end of New Democracy, but also they still classify this Era to be within in the aforementioned Modern Capitalism stage.
They plan to enter the Primary Stage of Socialism by 2035, and the Intermediate Stage by 2049.
They have no timeline for the Advanced Stage, or for achieving Communism.
Note that China doesn't plan to begin transitioning awat from commodity production and wage labour and into a socialist mode of production (as according to Marx) until the Advanced Stage, which they have no timeline for.
So no, China is not "Communist". It is ruled by a party that labels itself as a "Communist Party". According to China.
Anyone who is in the first bit serious about studying Chinese politics and economics should at least know this much.

As for being a DotP, we can argue over the criteria and I'll doubt we will convince each other. To me the DotP is as Marx called it - worker control of the means of production, worker control of the State.
China has a Vanguard Party which has formed itself into the new ruling elite. The economy is still run by the bourgeois capital owners. To me that doesn't meet the criteria of DoTP.

File: 1748993672320.jpg (892.67 KB, 1128x1080, 1637431470435.jpg)

If you find yourself parroting terms like multipolarity, civilizational bloc, or Eurasian sovereignty, pause. Ask where those ideas come from. Because the answer is not Marx. It's Dugin, Evola, and the fascist occult right.

>>2296703
What the fuck does it matter who dropped the first turd, when the ass that shit the most was Schachtman's?

>A year into the debate, a special convention was held in April 1940. After the April 1940 convention of the SWP, when Shachtman and his supporters on the new Political Committee refused to a vote on a motion pledging each member to abide by the convention decisions, they were expelled from the party.

Especially since he was expelled from the Trots, but is, somehow, responsible for every single Trotskyist stereotype.

You don’t love revolution, you love martyrdom and failure, you love death, you are a Christian wrapping yourself in Marx

>>2296724
>Even China doesn't consider itself Communist.
of course, reasonable people understand the difference in conventional language between preliminary primary and end stage socialism/communism. but anon dogmatically clings to semantic marx and refuses to distinguish them, therefore from that definition of the terminology is that all socialist/communist movements are communism.

>>2296724
>The economy is still run by the bourgeois capital owners.
but thats wrong. the commanding heights of the economy are controlled by the party and bourgeois capital owners are dependent on raw resource inputs from state owned enterprises. this means that small commodity producers and light industry can be privately owned, but what they make is determined by democratic consensus and enforced by the party. capitalists can't make whatever they want because they have to use the inputs provided by the state which are determined by what is needed to develop towards communism. the dotp controls the means of production and distribution in undeveloped and nonstrategic industries is left to market competition, where developed and strategic industries that develop into monopoly either by natural law such as land and water, or by social necessity are nationalized by the state and democratically administrated

iraq needs bbc influx

isg thread

>>2296724
>Even China doesn't consider itself Communist.
Wrong. Read the Communist Constitution of China. China is fully Communist. In Communist China, the system of exploitation of man by man is abolished. The socialist system has been built in its place. The exploiting class has been eliminated.

>>2296813
Communist China is in the primary stage of socialism. The Communist Party of China resolved https://www.idcpc.org.cn/english2023/tjzl/cpcjj/PartyCongresses/202307/t20230727_157825.html that the primary stage of socialism is a phase of Communism therefore China is fully Communist.

>>2296814
Wrong. There is no bourgeoisie in Communist China.

>>2296834
>What the fuck does it matter who dropped the first turd
Yes because you're swallowing it.

File: 1749001000671.png (650.02 KB, 596x900, perestroika.png)

>>2296852
>the system of exploitation of man by man is abolished BECAUSE IT SAYS SO!
>The socialist system has been built in its place. BECAUSE IT SAYS SO!
>The exploiting class has been eliminated. BECAUSE IT SAYS SO!
Now I don't think for the slightest it is, wage labor remains and the worker depends on selling his own labour to the employer. BUT I am extremely curious and even giddy at what China's scientific outlook on development will do, despite it being under the capitalist mode of production. I really like how atheist Chinese society is and the fetishism they have towards development and technology. I wonder if they can get rid of the conservative attitudes in their society with time.
>>2296860
>Wrong. There is no bourgeoisie in Communist China. BECAUSE IT SAYS SO!

>>2296860
false flag same fag

>>2296862
>capitalism is when wage
Wrong. Wages in socialist economy are by their very nature quite different from wages under capitalism. Since labour-power has ceased to be a commodity in socialist society, wages are no longer the price of labour-power. They express, not the relation between the exploiter and the exploited, but the relation between society as a whole, in the shape of the Socialist State, and the individual worker who is working for himself and for his society. Since under capitalism wages are the price of labour-power, they usually fluctuate, unlike the price of other commodities, below value. They do not always enable the workers to satisfy even the minimum of their requirements. With the abolition of the capitalist system of hired labour, the capitalistic law of value of labour-power has completely lost its validity as the regulator of wages. The basic economic law of socialism necessitates the maximum satisfaction of the constantly growing material and cultural requirements of the whole of society. The emancipation of wages from the limitations of capitalism enables them to be extended "to that volume of consumption, which is permitted on the one hand, by the existing productivity of society … and on the other hand, required by the full development of his (the worker's) individuality". (Marx, Capital, Vol. III, Kerr edition, p. 1,021.) Real wages constantly rise in accord with the growth and perfecting of socialist production. The requirements of the basic economic law of socialism with regard to stimulating production and raising the well-being of the working people are given effect through the law of distribution according to work. In accordance with this law, each worker's share in the social product is determined by the quantity and quality of his work. The Socialist State holds all the levers affecting the material welfare of the working people and applies a policy of systematically raising real wages.
>>2296868
Wrong we are different people. I answer with Marxist line to the liberal who denies Communism.

>>2296872
>Wrong we are different people.
nope you are china has abolished exploitation anon. you are a troll muddying the waters and directly contradict the chinese communist party

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>>2296866
And if picrel is true (even though I believe its the other way around) if the CPC and the NPC will eventually begin a process of exporting their cultural views worldwide like the US does. I think all they need to do really is to just keep the people rallied and chauvinist for China like they are right now (I don't mind it btw, its refreshing, just wish they were a little less conservative) and then remove the Golden Shield Project (also assuming that most of the population learns English by that time), imagine the cultural impact. Imagine for every anti-communist video there being 3X more videos attacking anti-communism in essence. The internet could really become wonderful if Chinese atheist society floods it, because as of right now its only a few who get by with VPNs.

>>2296873
It's like those people obssessed with ccp vs cpc while the party said they didn't care

>>2296873
I am not contradicting the Communist Party. Thr Communist Party of China resolved that China is fully Communist.
https://www.idcpc.org.cn/english2023/tjzl/cpcjj/PartyCongresses/202307/t20230727_157825.html

>>2296872
You're quoting https://www.marxists.org/subject/economy/authors/pe/pe-ch33.htm which is from 1954, Khrushchev era.


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>>2296881
Wrong. You are anti-Communist.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/deng-xiaoping/1987/60.htm
The Thirteenth National Party Congress will explain what stage China is in: the primary stage of socialism. Socialism itself is the first stage of communism, therefore China is Communist.

>>2296886
>Source: myself.
Ok buddy, have a fun communism.

>>2296886
At which stage socialism-communism does China (the NPC) realize that the war on drugs is a reactionary foreign policy built on conservative fearmongering lies and legalize weed for recreational use?

>>2296881
Wrong that text is proletarian canon on par with kapital. Stalin had great involvement in its production. You are filthy lying liberal.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1951/economic-problems/ch11.htm

>>2296890
Can the NPC explain their decisions and resources used as well as reveal who was behind The Anti-drug Law of the People’s Republic of China, adopted at the 31st Meeting of the Standing Committee of the Tenth National People’s Congress of the People’s Republic of China on December 29, 2007 and how it came to be ratified? Who were the experts, what was their reasoning and what were the resources used to justify the decisions and analysis made?

>>2296896
The bureaucratic elite wants to keep all the drugs for themselves while the proles toil in the coca fields

>>2296894
>You are liberal because my favorite social democratic butcherer of Bolsheviks canonized his works to be worshipped dogmatically without question

>>2296894
Wrong this text is proletarian canon on par with kapital. Bordiga had great involvement in its production. You are filthy lying liberal.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1952/stalin.htm

>>2296894
>proletarian canon

File: 1749003308744.mp4 (52.67 MB, 1280x720, bayareau-bayarea415.mp4)

Hardcore Dengist-Xiist-HuJintaoist (SOD) Sinophiles are my favorite MLoids

Hu Jintao is very cool, I hope he can find a cure to religious psychosis

>>2296886
>the primary stage of socialism
but you said exploitation was abolished

>>2296902
based bordiganon doing what that vermin does but good

>>2296911
Its both at the primary stage of socialism and fully communist because the NPC has declared it so. You are a filthy lying liberal or something.

Money doesn't exist in China, people talk to each other for what they need through WeChat and they get it directly from the producers after a symbolic value is removed from the app's interface. This is evidence that China is already fully communist as it has reached moneylessness and yet richness. Eat your Kung Pao Chicken and stop being anti-communist guys.

>>2296914
but the state appropriates surplus value from workers under the primary stage dotp. according to marx a portion of proceeds of labor are appropriated for the replacement and expansion of productive forces, public services, for insurance, etc. so even if china is fully communist, in the sense that it is fully controlled by the workers party, the system of exploitation of man by man is not yet completely abolished even if it is reduced

>>2296920
I should've put /s at >>2296914 because I'm not the anon you were replying to lol.

>>2296896
The war on drugs is People's War.
>>2296916
Money fundamentally changes its nature in being applied to the needs of the development of socialist economy. Under capitalism, money is turned into capital and is a means of appropriating the unpaid labour of other people. In socialist economy, on the other hand, money is a weapon of economic construction in the interests of the mass of the people in accordance with the requirements of the basic economic law of socialism. It is an expression of the socialist relations of production.

>>2292054
Mods IP range?

>>2296920
>but the state appropriates surplus value from workers under the primary stage dotp
Wrong. Expanded socialist reproduction and expanded capitalist reproduction are opposites. Extended socialist reproduction requires the constant renewal and increase of the production of both means of production and articles of consumption, in the definite proportions laid down by the national economic plan.

In its value the social product is divided into: (1) the value of used-up means of production, which has been transferred to the product; (2) the new value which labour has created for itself; (3) the new value which labour has created for society. The social and economic nature of each of these parts of the value of the social product is essentially different from its nature under capitalism. In the process of socialist reproduction, national economic funds function in place of constant and variable capital, and the net income of society takes the place of surplus-value.


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