/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2305515
these are some good ass reading material.
unfortunately, radlibs won't touch it.

>>2305666
>Why is the CIA so fucking good at their jobs?
Honestly man I think it has more to do with the fact that nobody gives a fuck about anything, and if they do, they're too atomized to know how to begin changing it. I think this is a product of the internet taking so much socialization out of the real world and literally turning people into awkward autists who struggle to relate to people in their communities even if they can be arsed to care about them.

>>2306171
How do we feel about underground cell networks?
Doesn't necessarily need to be for violent adventurist purposes.

>>2306322
I keep pitching Leftypol partisans but none of y'all want to put in the work

>>2306317
The most talented human capital for the revolution have to resist the temptation of chasing careers as bankruptcy lawyers and software developers. With elite overproduction that of course does become unsustainable but also like your average proletarian back in the 1890s might have actually extensively read theory and hung out IRL with others who did.

>>2306322
>>2306328
Stop larping

>>2306351
Everything is a LARP

Actually I don't see nothing wrong with the PSL strategy and the fact you guys obviously cant come up with nothing better (not even as a hypothetical plan) kinda shows how correct they are

>>2306328
Idk what your pitch is you'll have to repost it

>>2306359
It really seems like the kind of shit they're doing is really all that could conceivably be done apart from adventurist violence which would be equally if not more impotent.

>>2306355
>>2306355
No, there's obviously people who go outside and do shit besides jerking each other off with fantasies about clandestine cells

>>2305467
>>2305492
I'm not sure I fully agree. While I don't doubt that proles here live better than proles in the third world, you have to remember that

1. Conditions are worsening here as our WW2 momentum wears off
2. Wealth distribution is insanely uneven here in a way that I'm not even sure I can put into words.

People will post photos of the "third world", and they don't really look that different than a lot of the places here do. Go to a city like LA or Detroit and be prepared to see homeless people, decaying infrastructure, and crime around every corner.

Beyond that, even if we were all super privilaged I think it's pretty idealist to say "the US could never become proletarianized".

>>2305528
I think you have an overly narrow, definition-based view of class. By your logic, communism isn't possible in Russia either.

Rhe important thing isn't that someone is completely immiserated, let alone that they fit into an exact definition of class written about 200 years ago, it's that they're miserable enough that they feel the need to overthrow the current state of things. I know multiple people who work three jobs in order to get by; why couldn't they be driven to action?

>>2305549
You might have missed it, but >>2305528 outright said
>The only way you’ll ever get a proletariat in the imperial core is through prolonged occupation and restructuring over a period of decades, possibly centuries

>>2305593
Internationalism isn't a Trot concept, it's a Marxist concept generally. The MLs like to downplay it, what with "socialism in one country", but in this specific regard, Trotsky was indeed closer to Marx and Engels than Stalin.

>>2305664
Which Americans?

>>2305666
The CIA knows to attack on multiple fronts. It's not trying to convince people of any specific ideology, it's trying to create as many divisions as possible so that its enemies keep fighting eachother rather than themselves.

>>2305758
I'm not reading your articles because, quite frankly, I value my time too much to read someone random internet person's blog without being sold on why I should be reading it. I'm not denying that there could be very valuable information there, but I'm probably going to get the same information by reading works by more accomplished authors.

>>2306178
I can't tell if this is a joke or not, but China has been pretty explicit that it does not work this way. Even the Chinese nationalists I've seen generally say things like "your country, your problem".

>>2306189
I don't see why. Nobody here likes the way things are right now, Biden and Trump's based retardation made it ever worse, and people left and right are getting wise to electoral politics. Something big is brewing, and we're just seeing the start of it.

>>2306364
One of the most vicious and probably most widespread distortions of Marxism resorted to by the dominant "socialist" parties is the opportunist lie that preparation for insurrection, and generally the treatment of insurrection as an art, is "Blanquism".

>>2306391
I'm not against such preparations, especially since it's legal to form militias in the US. However those preparations don't themselves create the conditions where insurrection can succeed, and those conditions are absent.

>>2306322
>How do we feel about underground cell networks?
excellent, part of the work. but also cumbersome, burdensome. not for the work or how they are related to the surface parties, but for the potential infiltration that could get people arrested.
If they were to contribute to a potential revolution, the parties need to conciliate with the leaders of these networks.
I think these networks should be integral part of serious parties, but only managed by the most loyal members, those who understand what socialism and communism is, that sectarianism isn't a key virtue, and they only will respond when the material conditions have amassed a critical mass.
code names, encryption, and decentralization should be key points for these groups.
>Doesn't necessarily need to be for violent adventurist purposes.
if they are underground is because they are aiming that, violent and adventurism, but not anarchist non-sense. only wait to particular situations where they can hurt the state effectively, like when these protests in LA happen, the infiltrated underground organizations reveal the names of undercover pinkertons that try to arrest people from the marches. the less they are a threat to the state, the more open they are.
leave the meaningless breaking of a door of a petite bourgeoisie to the anarchists, rather disarticulate the gangs of snitchers where is needed.
that's just an example.

>>2306397
"Adventurism" (however we define this nebulous word that extends to any act of political violence it seems) can accomplish multiple things, including attracting attention at a large scale (what random person has even heard of the PSL, many only know it as "that commie org the embassy shooter was in"), contributing to a strategy of tension, giving participants first hand experience in the tasks of insurrection, lending certain kinds of credibility to the movement as a military actor, and so on. Obviously as a strategy in isolation at the wrong moment you'll just reproduce the experience of the Red Army Faction and get everyone killed. But like organizing along lines of economism (which seems to not only get a pass but be embraced uncritically as the road to salvation by many in leftist orgs) it can have political usefulness in the build up of conditions. Many successful movements have used forms of foco, low level insurgency, you name it as successful political tools and these could no doubt be classified as adventurist in their germinal phases by nonviolent critics.

>>2306440
>but also cumbersome, burdensome. not for the work or how they are related to the surface parties, but for the potential infiltration that could get people arrested.
The traditional cell model is risky because it's vulnerable to link analysis, if intelligence agencies can slowly work their way up from compromised cells. It might be potentially more useful for some purposes to use an unlinked affinity group model, albeit carefully and retaining some vestiges of central organization. There are other problems you immediately encounter with this but the security benefits might be worth it.

>>2306478
Building on this, unlinked independent small cells or affinity groups could maybe communicate with each other on something like a quality enforced glownonymous-only leftypol equivalent on a hidden service but for discussing only generalized tactics, ideology, and propaganda while avoiding sensitive specifics. But given how leftypol turned out that might be a really terrible idea.

I think all communist parties should be destroyed, same for unions or any working class advocacy groups. We need to start over from scratch. Marxism has forever been destroyed so we need to start with new theories with no basis in either Marxism or historical communism. We need a new clean slate.

>>2305492
>The paralysis and resulting lack of revolutionary potential is a direct consequences of the material conditions of the imperial core.
Pretty much. A country can only make revolution when it’s the only way out for the country's predicament.

>They know that communism would drastically reduce if not eliminate these things altogether and are well aware their standard of living is built off the enslaved of African children, yet they have done nothing about it. Decade after decade of neocolonial atrocities and not one American has risen up in meaningful revolt because they are fundamentally too addicted to their treats to ever have an interest in it
If communism will drastically reduce the standard of living in Western countries, then it has zero chance of success, because the people of these countries will not willingly give up the more developed material conditions that make their living conditions possible. It'd be no more possible than to expect people in poor countries to have gone on living under colonial governors.

It's a dogmatic oversimplification to think this is because of enslaving African children too. An important factor in the West is the high level of technological development, efficiency, and coordination of economic production. It's done under a capitalist ownership model rather than a socialist state ownership model, but the fundamental logic is not much different. There are different political systems in the world but the general tendency is towards the elimination of artificial barriers to production (which also adjust to local, natural, national, and other conditions).

There has also been a general tendency towards the world unification of production. The USSR for its own reasons (likely they had little choice) locked itself behind autarkic barriers and collapsed, while China opened up markets to Western investment. This opening up and trade was not done out of good will on either side but economic necessity, and that made some progress (i.e. gradual progress) towards the elimination of economic inequalities between peoples. It's possible for an isolated socialist country that practices autarky to go on for some time and provide a modest living for its people, but it will lag behind and probably have to maintain a rather despotic political regime like North Korea in order to survive.

>>2306520
>maintain a rather despotic political regime like North Korea in order to survive.
WRONG>you are libtard democrat. North Korea is the most democratic Korea with

>>2306522
Yes

>>2306522
This but unironically.

I think the thing that annoys me the most about third-worldists is that it feels like there's no winning with them. There's this nationalist essentialism underlying the whole thing, where I've committed the unforgivable sin of being born in the wrong nation, and the only means of penance is to let them violent kill me.

It smells a lot of a kid who got bullied turning around and becoming a bully himself; a bunch of unnecessary violence and hatred done to no practical end.

>>2306520
>If communism will drastically reduce the standard of living in Western countries
My question is, will it though? Ask a homeless man living under a bridge what his standard of living is. Or the guy who's been permanently crippled by a preventable injury. Or someone who's working three jobs to make ends meet. And remember, you don't need a majority to start a revolution; just enough people to do what needs to be done. And I, personally, know that these people exist in the US.

>>2306710
>My question is, will it though?
Hell if I know. What I'm getting at it though, is that I think it's the wrong angle to think about it. Like the whole Marxist theory is about superstructures which come to stand in the way of the further development of the forces of production being regularly reformed or junked for new ones to enable that further development. You saw that clearly in colonized and semi-colonized countries at a certain point, and revolutions could take an anti-capitalist form because the capitalists in those countries were not actually doing their "job" of developing the economy. But the idea of a revolution in the U.S. that drives the country backwards to a lower level of economic and material development is not realistic.

>And remember, you don't need a majority to start a revolution
But you need a majority to win. No revolution can be won by a minority or simply made by a party. And in Russia for example, there were many revolutionary parties, not just the Bolsheviks.

>>2306710
>My question is, will it though?
Obviously not. Even if you did the most retarded and vulgar way to undo imperialism and equally distributed wealth globally, most Americans would still be slightly richer. The ironic thing about being the nerve centre and enforcer of world imperialism is that the resources needed to discharge that function mean a lot less leftover for the ordinary population. The vast majority of superprofits are either slurped up by the parasite class or reinvested back into empire in the form of the military or foreign policy complex. If you cut the porkies out of the equation then Congoloese cobalt miners can take in all the profits of their work without increasing the cost of a smartphone, thereby massively improving their conditions with no negative effect on Western proles. In reality undoing imperialism will take the form first of ending the parasitic relationship between the core and periphery and allowing the latter to develop on its own terms. This alone will allow for rapid development that will close the gap in living standards in a few decades provided the third world has competent leadership, and the best example of this is China. It will go even faster if the West provides technical or other assistance.

>>2306760
I don't have much to say about it, but I really, really like this post, and I wanted to let you know.

>>2305409
Are you still in the CPC?

>>2305382
>Anarchists, who lack the political organizing capabilities to accomplish anything of note, usually somehow lap these orgs in actual militant activity
Really funny hearing anarchists in Los Angeles say that PSL are pussies who just shout a lot while being herded by police, PSL stands for Pussy Suckers Losers

>>2305574
>women enslaved by patriarchal capitalism aren't REAL WORKERS
>real workers are when you are a soulless bugman gamerchair socialist who spends his time stroking his beard to attempt to seem human

>>2305506
>regurgitating glorified welfare queen propaganda
The NYC construction worker in The Antifada podcast said "someone I work with said 'I lost a million dollars in my investments because of Trump's tariff chaos'
What's the word for a working class boomer can lose "a million dollars" overnight because of their financial portfolio? We might call that person a fascist. And in fact every teacher with a pension or other worker also has materially invested in the military industrial complex that is turning Palestinian children into dust

>>2305560
>extreme wrecker behavior of bourgeois nationalists
Finance imperialists literally overthrew the president of Russia's neighbor country because they refused to sign a trade deal that let corpos buy the land out from under the feet. You hate nationalism because you're an ultraleft liberal who is aligned with Soros:

https://tlio.org.uk/war-and-theft-the-hostile-takeover-of-ukraines-agricultural-land-private-equitys-21st-century-war-for-global-enclosure-and-slavery/

https://www.oaklandinstitute.org/blog/who-owns-agricultural-land-ukraine

>>2307285
>Pussy Suckers
and whats wrong with pussy sucking anyways

>>2307285
>You hate nationalism
Not him, but nationalism is for faggots. Internationalism or die.

>>2307384
You ever suck a pussy so hard it pops off? You have to get a tech to put those things back, major pain in the ass

>>2306710
>My question is, will it though?
think it this way: with all the wealth they have amassed, the capitalists, the average American would see their life largely improved.
how you know? see the economic data of capital accumulation.
and that applies to everyone else outside the imperial core.

>>2307821
Americans didn’t create all that wealth, the ill gotten gains of American capitalists have to be redistributed to the proles all around the world, American workers appropriating all of it for themselves is piracy

>>2307464
false dichotomy

>>2309405
Wrong. A nationalist sees proletarian nations and bourgeois nations. An internationalist sees a world where bourgeois and proletarians live.

>>2309485
wrong

>>2309574
Please for the love of god read Marx.

>>2309612
Please for the love of God read Engels specifically how he refers to the English proletarist becoming bourgeois.

>>2309612
t. retard who hasn't read the gotha programme

The party is over.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/la-immigrant-advocates-asked-whether-they-funded-recent-anti-ice-protests/3721949/

>>2314571
nah usually forcing comparties underground makes them stronger.

>>2314651
wrong. they will comply with the investigation and continue their zionist anarchist anti-Communist way.

>>2305382
They're pussies in so far that they are afraid of militarism and have tried to peace police the LA riots. But OP is right, such behaviour isn't limited to that of the PSL. Prime example is the DSA who refused a coalition with the SRA, which arguably could have served as their armed wing.
https://x.com/neonarodist/status/1888237458111762716

Meanwhile, orgs like the community self defence coalition have been the ones to at least help organise the masses.
https://x.com/Blacks4Peace/status/1932586549331333267
https://x.com/EnglishSalar/status/1895474014002536640

All the PSL and CPUSA has done is call for "peaceful protest" as if that isn't going to have Trump's fascist government clamp down on them like they already are.

>>2314658
Meds. Now.

>>2314658
This. As someone who was once a member familiar with people on the Central Committee, PSL will almost certainly comply with this investigation, selling out innumerable people and organizations out to the feds. After that they'll continue on their merry way.

>>2305382
>Genuinely, would we have better results in these kinds of conditions if our orgs were fully underground to begin with?
No. There are tons of organisations like that in the same places and they have equally little impact.
The solution to the problems of these orgs aren't the type of orgs that they were born out of which had even less impact