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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1749738980934.png (85.59 KB, 250x354, ClipboardImage.png)

 

Thoughts on "Lenin's Testament"? Most information I can find on it is contradictory. The WiKKKipedia page is unhelpful as expected and I can't find much other discussion about it.

A lot of people will quote Kotkin on this but Kotkin's whole shtick is that the evil totalitarian Stalin was not a rupture of the equally evil totalitarian-wannabe Lenin, so of course he would be motivated to say the Testament was fake.

I never understood the Stalinist-Trotskyist obsession with Lenin's supposed testament.

If Trots want to point to Stalinist Russia being a capitalist shithole they can just quote what Lenin wrote on lower stage socialism.

If Stalinists want to defend their God emperor just quote Lenin on his disagreements with Trotsky.

I cant read the image. What is lenins testament? Is it that idea where lenin was against stalin?


It's real, but contrary to what some people think it wasn't written because of Lenin suddenly having a premonition over Stalin being an evil dictator and whatnot. Rather they had a fallout due to Stalin making disparaging comments about Lenin's wife, and Lenin already being cranky and dying at the time was going to have none of that shit.

>>2315236
This is probably the best answer. If I was that sick and this hot Georgian man was rude to my wife I'd be pissed as fuck too.

>>2315212
He wanted Trotsky to have his funko pop collection.

File: 1749745141809.png (Spoiler Image,513.44 KB, 825x627, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2315438
So that is where the electrification money went

I don't think it's fake but it's been totally blown out of proportion. It amounts to saying "Lenin wanted Stalin out of power" when in reality it only argues about dismissing him as General Secretary. Stalin held several high posts and would have remained key figure of the party nevertheless.

And to top it off, the way Trotsky leaked the testament presumably via Max Eastman ended totally backfiring on him.

Trotsky itself said in 25 that there was no testament

>>2315177
Kotkin's works is also full of some wild cartoonish nonsense as well. He wrote that there was a flock of ravens obstructing the path that Stalin used to take walks on so he ordered them shot. It's Robert Conquest tier slop for the most part.

>>2326703
>He wrote that there was a flock of ravens obstructing the path that Stalin used to take walks on so he ordered them shot.
Prove that this didn't happen. Kotkin uses good sources for his works.

The whole fact there's a "debate" on whether it's real or not, when Stalin himself considered it real (he read it early) shows the latent cognitive dissonance of ideologues that cling to the ML label. It's that or they just pretend it doesn't exist, like that succdem S4A.

Lenin's observations on Stalin and Trotsky correlate with their historical actions. Trotsky was truly a bottom bitch for Lenin, skillfully commanding the red army and even arguing with Lenin when he made strategic errors, and this running theme that they openly hate each other is born from people cherry-picking small letters from Lenin, who writes purely in polemics. It ignores the fact that Lenin always had Trotsky handle the hard stuff. What idiots misunderstand is that having disagreements, doesn't mean they're going to kill each other. That's the best type of partnership, despite crashing out in private letters occasionally. It's practically Nietzche's star friendship. There is no reason to believe Lenin's analysis on Trotsky wasn't authentic when you recognize this.

Meanwhile, Stalin fucked up every military campaign he was a part of. This reached its apex during the Polish war (which Trotsky argued against, but Lenin overruled him). Stalin refused orders to send over troops which led directly a crushing loss, which then lead to him being relieved of his post. What Stalin was good at was kissing ass, which was evident from his centrist position during the left-right opposition or how he handled the testament. This is how he kept close with Lenin and one can assume that with his death nearing, and after the civil and polish wars, that Lenin started to recognize what Stalin was doing, and hence the warning. Someone else said basically the same but tried to undermine it by focusing on a specific insult (which is how they validate their views on Trotsky).

This isn't even an argument that Trotsky is perfect and Lenin critiques Trotsky in the same testament. If he theoretically won the power struggle, the international would have remained and he wouldn't have wasted a decade trying to court both nazi Germany and the allies, like Stalin did. It's about all the bullshit people spout about this writing which belongs with all the other consciously incorrect ideological platforms like the people living in Moscow trials era propaganda (that we know was fake) or stuff that's refuted by Stalin's own actions like the brief period Stalinists shilled the Comintern before promptly destroying it. Them claiming the testament is fake, or Lenin didn't "mean" it is just another symptom of their fixation on supporting Stalin as an edgelord move rather than any critical reasoning. That, and there's a youtube/forum pipeline that leads you to Stalin and to a lesser extent, Mao.

It's just a letter Lenin sent. It's not a testament nor a will. Lenin didn't own the party or the soviet union. Also he didn't even say who should or shouldn't become the new leader in it, when it comes to individuals he just took the change to call them all out for their mistakes.

i think its real but has been misrepresented as a definitive statement on the future of the party that was was kept a secret for obviously perfidious reasons, instead i think it was kept a secret bc people were understandably cautious about upsetting the balance of forces by its widespread publication. i also do not read russian so cannot do independent research

>>2326786
fake news. trotsky said it was fake. communist party leaders dont need wills

>>2329947
ofc trotsky would deny it lol he was an egomaniac and could not handle criticism even long enough to spin it against his rival condemned in the same document

>>2329956
the will was made by mensheviks. you are a;libtard

>>2329961
source?

>>2329962
Trotsky explains testament is faked by menshevik.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1925/07/lenin.htm

trotsky betray proletariat and join menshevik camp and promulgate the lies.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1928/09/eastman.htm

>>2329973
thank you for providing some kind of source, have not read these & cant promise i will. if you want to give a more detailed description of your perspective on this i'd appreciate it, if not ill respond again if i end up reading these

>>2326786
Stalin did a pretty good job guiding the Soviet Union so its irrelevant anyway

>>2315172
Stalinism is just a symptom of Leninism that is a symptom of marxoidism. It may come as a shock to you but marx didnt invent communism but was a coward who didnt partake in Paris commune but instead only criticized it.

>>2330228
>muh real
>muh pure
uygha, they won. you're going to have to get over it one day.

>>2330243
>marxoids won
<ussr collapses
<china is 100% capitalist
All they have left is supporting the latest national liberal 3rd world dictator. Everyone lost especially the working class.

>>2326786
>Stalin fucked up every military campaign he was a part of
stopped reading lol

The reason the USSR was messed up wasn't because of Stalin or Trotsky. Leon would have been worse than Stalin if he ever ruled. Lenin is the one to blame. Trots want us to believe Lenin was the good guy and Stalin was the bad guy, and MLs do the opposite. Wrong. Leninism is why the Soviet Union died.

>>2329990
it also doesn't exist anymore
>>2330283
name one war stalin didn't fuck up when he was in key command of, why would he dissolve the red army? why would he do everything he could to put as much distance between it and himself?

the fact that so many communists hate trotsky nowadays goes to show they dont really read about the history of the revolution in russia. you can have your disagreements but he was a fundamental figure and in this house we respect the red napoleon, period.

>>2330287
Lenin and Stalin did not live long enough.

>>2330362
Lenin didnt live long enough to get purged by this psychopathic opportunist.

>MLs unironically do the “KKK” meme and still don’t realize they’re fucking losers yet
Nerd

>>2330366
>comparing trotsky to hitler
another example of the historical illiteracy many communists here have

>>2330383
>Hitler = criticizing the USSR whether you’re actually Hitler or a communist Jew
<Butchering like 700,000 proles because uhhh they sabotaged production quotas or something = kicking the revolution up to the next stage

>>2330400
>Never forget, the ML’s genocidal hatred for proletarians is so limitless, it will unironically claim some random exiled Jew that criticized the USSR was a greater threat to it than an actual genocidal invasion
<Tfw my regime is so fragile it crumbled in less than a decade when it finally allowed proles to criticize it in public
God tier self-own
Ngl the eternal edginess of MLoids has actually gotten pretty boring, you can only reveal you were hitlerites all along and have the effect still be shocking but so many times

>>2330463
They probably think the ussr collapsed because of a (((kkkonspiracy))) though

>Lenin, the guy who dedicated half of his lifes work to saying that he hated Trotsky, a Menshevik, with every fibre of his being, and only had him in leadership when he bound in his Menshevik views during the revolution, would wait until after he died to "crown Trotsky the new king of the Bolsheviks" via an unverified note (Trotsky reverted back to his old views as soon as Lenin died). As if there was such a thing as the old leader appointing a successor in a democratic political organisation.

>>2315208
they prolly stuck in a great man theory mindset still

Why are you speKKKIng liKKKe that? Are you mentally retarded?

>>2326748
>Prove that this didn't happen. Kotkin uses good sources for his works.
Thats not how it works you moron

>>2330907
>t. ameriKKKan

>>2326786
>Stalin fucked up every military campaign he was a part of.
He actively listened to his commanders and changed strategies when they suggested it. Exactly what a political leader is supposed to do.
>What Stalin was good at was kissing ass
aka political organizing. This is the main reason why Trots always lose, they can't deal with any opposition, split into thousands of ineffective parties, accomplish nothing and cry out to aliens to do shit for them.

>>2330355
>it also doesn't exist anymore
4 decades after his death. He couldn't control USSR's later bad leaders and bad decisions from the grave. Sure he could have done some things better but not everything can be blamed on him.

>>2330389
It was the USSR's cultural revolution and low key civil war getting rid of internal Fascists. Even if they went overboard, it was the first socialist state to ever exist so it's not like could look at other socialist states for guidance.

Who cares bro
Bukharin should have taken over and implemented socialism with soviet characteristics
That would have save the ussr

>>2315236
Nothing you describe has happened in reality. It was Khruschevite forgery, enabled by Krupskaya already being dead. There's zero evidence from before the letters getting published by Khruschevites that a supposed fallout with Krupskaya/Stalin has happened

Furthermore, they've constantly tried to incriminate Krupskaya herself in ties with opposition, like, Zinoviev/Kamenev had a democratization proposition, Krupskaya didn't just throw them out of the door outright, and so they collected her signature on a bill that had wildly different content, one Krupskaya didn't see and had to defend her own name. Since then, she was in a very hostile mood to trots and rightists.

Bet they don't tell you about this incident, don't they? Instead, they at best present it as Stalin terrifying Krupskaya into compliance, heh

>>2330901
I find it totally believable. This doesn't sound crazy. Besides, didn't Trotsky himself say that Lenin was his beloved teacher, and Lenin has viewed Trotsky as his best pupil?


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