[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)

Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1750275124683.jpg (108.95 KB, 896x886, beer.jpg)

 

The entire "everybody acts in a way that is ultimately reducible to their material interests and the ideas they have are just distortions or window dressing" thing is one of the biggest strawmen ever made about communists. It's not that communists think people just follow their interests it's that the system forces people to act within the constraints of material interests. And morality all that good vs. evil shit exists mainly to hide and obscure that fact, that the core reality of capitalism is driven by profit, the competition for money and the harsh truth that without capital, you're left to struggle, that it isn't some natural, self-correcting system, it's man-made, and it runs on the logic of capital, accumulate or collapse.

I disagree

>everybody acts in a way that is ultimately reducible to their material interests and the ideas they have are just distortions or window dressing
Nobody claims this, it was dismissed 100s of years ago as vulgar materialism

>>2338155
you havent seen the way people post here then

>>2338163
No I have, people don't espouse this except as a meme

since the time of plato, virtue has been defined as whatever brings men happiness. it is a rather self-evident axiom. now, happiness is the contentious term, since it can mean different things, namely, pleasure or contentment. plato writes that mediating the passions by reason brings maximum happiness; this in turn is passed on to the stoics and epicureans in principle. its not reductive to see the essence of virtue as that which brings most joy to men.

>>2337969
>the system forces people to act within the constraints of material interests.
Their aggregate social class acting within their class's interests
>And morality all that good vs. evil shit exists mainly to hide and obscure that fact
the history of humanity is the history of class war between bourgeois or proletarian morality

>>2339967
>the history of humanity
<200k years
>is the history of class war between bourgeois or proletarian morality
<500 years

>>2339973
The history of humanity is 12000 years, before that it's prehistory

File: 1750345543905.jpg (41.07 KB, 616x545, retarded.jpg)

>>2339967
>class war is some bullshit about "bourgeois vs proletarian morality"

>>2337975
refuses to elaborate

>>2338155
Some people definitely do. It's honestly the basis for a lot of the thinking about labour aristocracy.

>>2340005
>the history of humanity
<12,000 years
>is the history of class war between bourgeois or proletarian morality
<500 years

>>2340324
bourgeois is just the descendant or evolution of old time land owners with lots of slaves/servants, it's been part of "humanity" since time immemorial

>>2340036
No they dont and no it's not, people's thinking around labour aristocracy or their perspectives on third worldism are not based in vulgar materialism

People like to lie until their self interest in a situation is pointed out

>>2340355
>bourgeois is just the descendant or evolution of old time land owners with lots of slaves/servants, it's been part of "humanity" since time immemorial
that might be your perspective, but its not a marxist perspective. the marxist perspective is that the bourgeoisie steadily gained acendancy by their class war against the aristocrats, in "bourgeois revolutions" such as in the french and american revolutions. in england too, we see the foregrounded battle between bourgeois parliament and the royal aristocracy in the english civil war [1642-1651] lead by oliver cromwell. cromwell succeeded the aristocracy, but suppressed the more radical peasant movements, such as we see in "the diggers" and "the levellers". the USSR and china appeared to have successful peasant revolutions however, which have seemed to have ultimately developed into bourgeois autocracies.

File: 1750358920542.jpg (398.85 KB, 1078x1000, benito-mussolini-duce-web.jpg)

>>2340355
>>2340447
in fascism, we also see the immanent class war between the bourgeoisie and the aristocracy. the "nationalism" of germany and italy mirror the nationalism of the french revolution in this respect. after decolonisation, we have also seen much nationalism as a means to graduate to bourgeois society.

>>2340447
Sure all that and at the same time it's also the same old master-slave dynamic

>>2340457
well, this is an entirely reductive analysis.
in a darwinist world, there is always predator and prey.

>>2340461
Your perspective is a new class came and replace the old, all true, they replaced them and took their place

>>2340447
>bourgeois autocracies
Not what china has developed into tho

>>2337969
>>2338155
You are both in agreement

Every talk of classes is reductive by nature

>>2340475
>t. nationalist who learned about Palestine 2 years ago

>>2340480
No idea what that means

>>2340472
You are correct, I misread OP as stating this is claimed by communists

>>2340467
its not as simple as that. there is a reason why the bourgeoisie still remain to be the most revolutionary class in history, for example.
>>2340471
china appears to be a bourgeois autocracy from what i have seen. how would you describe it?
>>2340475
only when you limit your analysis of what comprises class relations and of how class relates to one's lived reality.

>>2340447
Both the communist revolutions that created the Soviet Union and Maoist China were led and coordinated by focusing on domination by the proletariat class following what Engels said about peasants:

<We, of course, are decidedly on the side of the small peasant; we shall do everything at all permissible to make his lot more bearable, to facilitate his transition to the co-operative should he decide to do so, and even to make it possible for him to remain on his small holding for a protracted length of time to think the matter over, should he still be unable to bring himself to this decision. We do this not only because we consider the small peasant living by his own labor as virtually belonging to us, but also in the direct interest of the Party. The greater the number of peasants whom we can save from being actually hurled down into the proletariat, whom we can win to our side while they are still peasants, the more quickly and easily the social transformation will be accomplished. It will serve us nought to wait with this transformation until capitalist production has developed everywhere to its utmost consequences, until the last small handicraftsman and the last small peasant have fallen victim to capitalist large-scale production.


<Engels, The Peasant Question in France and Germany


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894/peasant-question/ch02.htm

>>2340530
nothing as simples as a string of words of course
>only when you limit your analysis of what comprises class relations and of how class relates to one's lived reality.
no, always

>>2340533
i think the figure of the peasant is still enigmatic but displays an immanently universalist character. daryl davis (a black man) being entered into the KKK unfurls the contradiction at play, for example. there is a solidarity on the bottom of things which transcends any care for presumed antagonism. the peasant has no politics as such for the same reason however, so only represents radicality in the civic sphere.

>>2340556
>there is a solidarity on the bottom of things which transcends any care for presumed antagonism.

i do not think this is true lol

>>2340530
>china appears to be a bourgeois autocracy
In what way does it appear to be bourgeois or autocratic?


Unique IPs: 18

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]