>>2347991>Has there been any evidence of the Iranians downing f35sAs far as I'm aware they haven't shot down anything.
>Also has there been any explanation for how midnight hammer went off without a hitch?They planned out every aspect of it months in advance, including the breakdown of the nuclear talks and moving two aircraft carriers and six B-2s as a distraction. Either Russia and China knew and said nothing, or the US/Israel caught them with their pants down.
>>2347999>Larry Johnson takes a different but somewhat optimistic view, that Trump has a pattern of making showy but deliberately not very damaging attacks. From his post:
<To understand what happened today in Iran, you need to recall the last two times Trump claimed to have carried out massive strikes to derail alleged weapons of mass destruction. I am talking about Syria:
<1. April 6–7, 2017 – Shayrat Airbase Tomahawk Strike
<Date & Time: April 6, 2017 (evening ET); missile impact around April 7, 4:40 a.m. Syria time What happened: Trump directed the launch of 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles from U.S. destroyers targeting the Shayrat airbase—the launch site for the April 4 sarin attack on civilians in Khan Shaykhun. This was Trump’s first military action directly against Assad’s forces, intended to punish chemical weapons use. 2. April 13–14, 2018 – Coalition Precision Strikes
<Date: April 13, 2018 (U.S. time); strikes executed early April 14 Syria time Details: In collaboration with the U.K. and France, Trump ordered precision strikes—chiefly missiles—against three Syrian chemical weapons facilities, responding to the Douma chemical attack on April 7. Strike reached sites near Damascus and Homs, with approximately 105 missiles used.
<Now, here is what actually took place behind the scenes. How do I know? Can’t tell you that. The US alerted the Russians in advance to our intentions and plans. The warning was given with enough advance notice that Russian and Syrian assets were able to vacate those locations. All Trump did was launch an expensive fireworks show that cost millions of dollars and blew up some sand dunes.
<Given that history, I suggest everyone pour themselves a big scotch or vodka and relax. Initial reports almost always are grossly exaggerated. Here is one possibility: Trump may be doing another Houthi spin… you know, declare that Iran has capitulated and then pull US forces out of harms way. Iran has been extremely patient to a lengthy list of US provocations
>Scott Ritter has a new video up which we cannot embed, but it’s only six minutes. The key point is in the subhead: President Trump just sent the most sophisticated weapons in the US arsenal to bomb three empty sites in Iran. Why? He adds that this was not a serious attack and did not advance US security interests. It seems designed to limit Iran’s retaliatory assets because the US used only assets out of theater, as in not (supposedly) implicating US bases in the region. He argues that this was show intended to save Trump’s face.
>However, Iran is not Syria. Indian media has been reporting on the increasing damage that Iran’s daily and sometimes more than once a day bombings are inflicting. Despite Trump’s bluster about the need for Iran to return to the capitulation, um, negotiating, table, this action does not stop Iranian strikes, which look to be reaching the point of serious damage. For instance: [videos of bombing aftermath]
>Israel has put itself in a PR conundrum by seeking regime change in Iran and depicting Iranian strikes as largely unsuccessful. But we know from the Washington Post as of 3 days ago that on then-current trajectories, Israel would run out of air defense missiles in 10 to 12 days. So Israel is already taking serious hits and is not far from being completely exposed to Iranian strikes. What then? The US is going to be under acute pressure to stop Israel’s pummeling.1
>Now perhaps Israel will stand down in the wake of the US attack. Iran’s position has been they would stop shooting when Israel stopped shooting.
>But failing that, despite Trump apparently hoping a showy strike would be sufficient to save his manhood, if Israel does not back down, the US will be forced to go up the escalatory ladder. I have said the probable next play would be to pummel Tehran. Israel brought Hezbollah to heel, not by defeating it militarily, but by inflicting so much punishment on the capital that Hezbollah, which is also a political actor in Lebanon, had to stand down. It may attempt a replay in Iran or alternatively hope that civilian deaths and infrastructure damage will produce its hoped-for public revolt.
>Having said it would retaliate and hit US bases all over the Middle East if the US attacked, what does Iran do now? Iran has tended to be very cautious and under-react, and then a bit late. This war is getting too hot for that to be a great idea since the US cannot be seen to abandon Israel.
>At a minimum, Iran intensifies its pounding of Israel. Perhaps it engages in an out-of-the-box move and hits the British airbase in Cyprus, which has been supporting strikes on Gaza. One YouTuber said the US base in Qatar had been evacuated, so perhaps that is the immediate tit for tat.
>Since it seems vanishingly unlikely that the Trump will be unable to stand up to calls for escalation when Iran keeps pummeling Israel, where will Iran go if the US makes a strike intended to do serious damage? If Iran successfully parries that, perhaps not much. But otherwise, Iran’s best next move would seem to be to block the Strait of Hormuz. They can loudly announce that they’ll reopen it as soon as Israel and the US stop their attacks.
>Finally, as Alexander Mercouris pointed out yesterday, this attack means Donald Trump’s presidency is over, at least in terms of getting much further with his domestic agenda. This war will become his tar baby.
>This is a tragic mistake, but our dogged support of Israel and Netanyahu’s wiliness and personal survival focus got us here. As the movie version of Elizabeth said when rejecting the advice of ministers to attack Spain, “I do not like wars. They have uncertain outcomes.”
>Or to again invoke a Sun Tsu dictum that yours truly has applied regularly to Trump: “All tactics and no strategy is the noise before the defeat.”
<Update 10:30 AM EDT. From PressTV:
>In a decisive response to the US aggression against Iran’s peaceful nuclear facilities, the Iranian parliament has voted to close the strategically vital Strait of Hormuz.
>A senior Iranian lawmaker, Esmaeil Kowsari, said on Sunday that the Majlis (Iranian parliament) has agreed to close the key artery for global energy trade in response to the American aggression and the silence of the international community.
>“The parliament has come to the conclusion that it should close the Hormuz Strait, but the final decision lies with the Supreme National Security Council,” Kowsari stated.
>The Supreme Leader delegated his authority with respect to the conduct of the war to the top general of the IRGC. So it seems unlikely that Khameni would stop this action even if he were inclined to (as in he may limit his influence given his decision to stay out of military decisions).
>So does the IRGC act on this decision? I assume they at least sit on the Supreme National Security Council. Do they have a majority of votes? Or did the Council already like the idea already but wanted the legislature to bless it as a matter of form?
>As Reader Safety First pointed out the last time the Strait was briefly closed in the early 1980s, all it took was dumping a few mines out of the back of a motorboat. So this need not be a complicated or much planned operation, at least in the starting phase. >>2348008No, it doesn't seem like it. They just had the capacity to develope the material for a nuclear weapon.
It's unclear why they did it since at least at this point it's unclear if they even accomplished anything. The theory I think is most likely is that israel is on the losing side of a missile ratio and this gives them an out while allowing Trump and Netanyahu to save face.
It's hard to imagine Iran just going with an open ended cessation of hostilities though considering it's very likely Israel will just try to start shit again.
>>2348027Cuck countries: Iran, Russia and China
Non cucked countries: DPRK and Houthi Yemen.
>>2347982Iran made a massive mistake by not building a Nuclear Weapon in order to secure their Sovereignty (they could threaten to Nuke the Zionist State if the U$ launched a Invasion and/or Air Campaign for Regime Change, which is the same successful strategy the DPRK uses) and thinking the Kabuki theatre with the U$/Zionist State would go on forever, as now Trump and Netanyahu smell blood in the water and are going to completely destroy Iran in a massive Air Campaign and secure official De Jure control of the entire Middle East, so this should be a warning to all Lesser Evil Controlled Opposition Bourgeois factions worldwide (ie. The U$ Democrats and China), about what happens when you play footsie with Fascists, and it is also a stark reminder of the toxic Reactionary Retardation of Islamic Theocracy, which destroyed Baathism and divided the Arab Nation along Sunni-Shia lines, doomed Palestine to the fate of inevitable Genocide by the Zionist State, and prevented the creation of a Socialist State in Iran, and the resultant National Liberation/Self-Determination of the Oppressed Nations of Azerbaijan, Kurdistan, Arabistan, and Balochistan in their own Socialist States, as shown in my Map of the SSRs and SFSRs of the future Global USSR in the Middle East/West Asia, 😂🤣🤢🤮✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️!
>>2348049Black and anti-Zionist?
She's gonna get eaten alive by MIGA.
Thoughts on this guy, professor Jiang? He seems to be a relatively politically unaffiliated chinese-canadian guy making videos about geopolitics and trying to use some model of game theory to predict the next decade.
He says in this video that both Iran, Isntrael, and Trump want to have american land-troops deployed on Iranian soil. (He differentiates between Trump and the American Empire, of which the latter explicitly *doesn't* want boots on the ground)
He comes off as a mild crank, but I mean so is everyone else here. So I was wondering what yall thought about his predictions? (I'll type more of his predictions out if yall are interested and I'm not lazy)
(link if embed doesn't work)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4cs-8mrP_s>>2348068fuck it
maybe we deserve to go extinct at this point
>>2348067The hypothetical is if Israel assassinates Iran's head of state, which is generally considered grounds for MAD.
>>2348068Doomsday cheerleaders will constantly point to Russia/China's unwillingness to get involved in America's foreign conflicts but that's generally out of a sense of letting the Americans overextend themselves and sabotage their own status in the world. A nuclear strike is probably the one red line where other countries are forced to get involved. Dropping 1000+ nukes on Iran to vaporize its population would almost assuredly cause a nuclear winter from the radiation fallout, which would completely decimate every country on earth.
>>2348028It's hard for me to guess at the thought processes of the Israeli and American governments. There are strong contingents in both that for practical and ideological reasons need Iran to be destroyed.
I think I agree that Iran is more than holding its own. It's kind of shocking to think that once again nato has attacked an enemy state on the operational expectation that with the application of direct pressure its government will collapse in on itself and the spoils can be taken at leisure. I think it underscores the debilitating and pervasive ignorance of the people making these decisions.
My gut feeling though is that this show of strength on Iran's part isn't going to temper Israeli bellicosity but enflame it. If a weak Iran was intolerable, a strong Iran absolutely can't be countenanced. From what I can see, Israel is on borrowed time. Its demographics are against it. It's technological edge is waning. Its greatest ally and benefactor is suffering from increasingly sharpening internal antagonisms and external frustrations. The ability of the Israelis to find "security" in Zionist terms is fading by the day, and I'm not sure how they're going to handle that, but simply acquiescing to that fact seems unlikely.
>>2348075>Doomsday cheerleaders will constantly point to Russia/China's unwillingness to get involved in America's foreign conflicts but that's generally out of a sense of letting the Americans overextend themselves and sabotage their own status in the world. In the /ukr/ thread is posted the talks from the Petersburg economic forum a few days ago, and the sense conveyed by Putin is that time is simply not on the side of the "golden billion," both because the material circumstances of the rest of the world are developing not in their favor, but also because all the development that is happening in America and Europe is just going towards making the elites richer while their citizens suffer. It seems like from their perspective, not directly engaging nato in a demonstrative confrontation is the winning move, since they're reforming and developing all the aspects of their societies that would help them win such a conflict if or when it does happen, while in Europe and America they're ossifying and degrading.
And tbh I think that's right. From what I can see, the longer these current processes play out the less able to meaningfully confront Russia or China the US becomes. I think if this current shooting match between Israel and Iran happened 20 years ago, the US would have lit Iran up like a candle. Now though all it seems willing or able to muster is what currently seems to be a largely performative strike on facilities that current reports are saying are both empty and not essential to Iran's nuclear program.
What worries me the most though is that realizing these facts won't cause nato to reflect and reform, but commit to doubling down on trying to overturn the chessboard when they see that they can't win.
>>2348102>overturn the chessboardEven flipping the board would be an impotent move. They thought they'd be fighting China by now, but are set to crash against the gates of Russia and Iran. The energy or volition required for an explicit death cult isn't there
The other big question is whether China will refuse the translatio imperii—whether it will permit the hundred headed hydra of capital to roost there after the place it's been incubated and protected crumbles to dust
>>2348089I hope so lol. We need more than a 2 party system here.
I think the statement "Nothing ever happens" is a bit misleading. I think a better statement would be something like "Good political change almost never happens."
>>2348083The Trump administration doesn’t have the bipartisan support that the Bush admin did.
Trump didnt have a 9/11 style attack during his administration.
There might be dumb shmucks in MAGA hats who may actually start a pogrom, but watch as they’re met with overwhelmingly hostile resistance.
>>2348126>Even flipping the board would be an impotent move. They thought they'd be fighting China by now, but are set to crash against the gates of Russia and Iran. The energy or volition required for an explicit death cult isn't thereIt would be impotent, but I worry if
they know that. There's been talk for years among these people about "winning" or "surviving" a nuclear war, and between this think tank drivel, the increasingly eugenicist and malthusian posture of the west, and the nihilistic individualism of its elites, I think the possibility of them flipping a coin on trying to "win" a nuclear war is not unlikely.
>The other big question is whether China will refuse the translatio imperii—whether it will permit the hundred headed hydra of capital to roost there after the place it's been incubated and protected crumbles to dustThat I can't even begin to speculate on. China's current success seems predicated on the state dominance of the private sector which they've been cultivating over the past 30 years. I would think that depriving America of its hegemony would offer the opportunity to transition to communism, but they've already let the devil into their home, and you can't do that without singing the carpets.
>>2348081>It's hard for me to guess at the thought processes of the Israeli and American governments. There are strong contingents in both that for practical and ideological reasons need Iran to be destroyed. Yeah. Well I think you have the correct instincts to get right to the heart of the matter. Leftists can over-intellectualize or over-analyze too much I think. A lot of the guys who really shape policy are these think-tank types like Walter Russell Mead (the Holden Bloodfeasts basically). Like, Heritage Foundation, Hudson Institute, the Washington Center for Near East Policy and so on. As to how they think, I think they like to create options for themselves which they write about in their white papers. It's like: Option 1, Option 2, Option 3. And what we're seeing with this combined U.S.-Israeli attack (which is the first time that has ever happened, at least on this scale and publicly, and also establishing a precedent) is Option 3, because they think they've been on a lucky streak and have moved to exploit it.
>I think I agree that Iran is more than holding its own. It's kind of shocking to think that once again nato has attacked an enemy state on the operational expectation that with the application of direct pressure its government will collapse in on itself and the spoils can be taken at leisure. I think it underscores the debilitating and pervasive ignorance of the people making these decisions. I haven't figured out if they're really going for regime change, or whether that's just something they're saying. But obviously they'd want that? I'm thinking as I'm writing and trying to figure it out. Or again, maybe it's a stretch goal. Like that's the new Option 3, whereas the first two options include blowing up Iran's nuclear program and enough ballistic missiles, launchers, etc. that Iran still exists but with fewer capabilities. They'll take that.
Then in 10-15 years there will be new capabilities and they'll go at it again.
There were rumors of Israeli commando raids in Iran, but other than small teams of Mossad agents, they don't have the capability. They could – they do have the capability – of dropping paratroopers into Iran but that has a high chance of turning into a disaster, so it's not something I'd expect. (The only time Israel has ever done this in a war was in the 1950s if memory serves and they got bored at the Mitla Pass in the Sinai and went out looking for trouble, ran into it, and got shot up by a bunch of Egyptian troops.) But in the future they will have V-280s for example which are like Black Hawks with the range and speed to get there and back.
One might recall the U.S. also experienced a disaster once flying helicopters into Iran:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw>>2348102>Now though all it seems willing or able to muster is what currently seems to be a largely performative strike on facilities that current reports are saying are both empty and not essential to Iran's nuclear program.What I'm watching for now is whether Israel begins targeting Iran's oil facilities. Kharg island especially. There is some talk in the Israeli papers that they might wrap it up soon, and Netanyahu said today that Israel is very close to reaching its goals in Iran and will avoid a "war of attrition," but obviously I don't trust him whatsoever.
>>2348154jewish nigger (JIDF), proud zegroes dealt with a lion's share of western anti-air munitions stockpiles in ukraine, among many other categories of munitions and weapons systems.
>>2348167she's literally me
>>2348159>I haven't figured out if they're really going for regime change, or whether that's just something they're saying.I'd be more surprised at this point if they let it slip by. They've been wishing for this opportunity and planning to regime change Iran for decades. Trump's admin is the perfect vehicle for it.
And most likely Russia and China won't do shit about it. Public tsk tsk but nothing real. It's no long term 5D chess, either, because having a non Israeli/American puppet Iran around would surely be the better outcome.
>>2348154Especially humiliating after Israel did
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocus_City_Hall_attackthey got nothing but love from Cuckler
What's up with people focusing on Medvedev's and RT's nominally pro-Iran position tho? What's the actual function of this, defusing anti-Zionist sentiment by making it seem like the state is doing something about the situation?
>>2348189According to Gay Nazi
>>2348159, this was actually an FSB false flag, because some guys wore blue shirts
>>2348206And who runs and funds ISIS Khorasan again?
>>2348228Probably an insurance thing, if I know anything about capitalism
>>2348235>Israel is setting Jews up for persecution.ftfy
and btw I'm sure most of us know this is intentional bc Zionism needs antisemitism
>>2348242I'm gonna assume you realise that criticising Cuckler for his commitment to Zionism doesn't make his actions in Ukraine wrong
Nor does supporting a few things he did mean he's ontologically good
>>2348247Maga deepstate and israel, AND Iran want the USA to invade iran (yes I said and iran)
This will fuck the straight of hormuz, which will spike oil. Which means america will also fuck with Venezuela (remember how trump stationed even more troops in Panama).
ICE is arresting and detaining (and eventually using as slave labor) non-citizens PREEMPTIVELY for the coming war, the war they've already decided they would do a long time ago.
They've prepared specifically for the Hormuz to be blockaded.
And also… just vibes dude
>>2348252Putin is as committed to Zionism (diplomacy with the Zionist state) as is Xi and China.
None of it matters though, if we are to believe the CPC and consecutively the NPC have a program if the means justify the end.
>>2348244>>2348249"Special forces" maybe but I think the US needs those troops for the Pacific war it really craves
>>2348254Please don't fall for the bait, please don't fall for the bait
>>2348249<land size>iran: 1,648,195 km>afghanistan: 652,864 km>iraq: 438,317 km<population>iran: 85,961,000>iraq: 24,683,313 (in 2003)>afghanistan: 20,284,307 (in 2001)That said, burger ego has no bounds so they might try anways
>>2348301Some 32px potato video where you can't even tell what's happening is burned in your brain? Obama still deserves it for what he did to Libya
Despite the tryhards on Twitter, there is no major dissident faction or civil war in Iran, so not gonna happen
>>2348314I too, have accidently found a random nuclear bomb.
It's in my pants.
>>23483171. I see your point, funny.
2. Let's be serious for a moment. The attacks weren't within the US. Combine that with how widespread social media is, any credibility the USA had in trying to galvanise the people like the Bush administration did backfired in their face the second they say the footage coming out of gaza and attempting to censor the platform it was being presented on.
Considering the amount of solidarity that has been shown for immigrants as seen in the LA riots, if ICE and the red-hats start pogroming arabs or other middle easterners, they won't have the support of the general populace.
>>2348352Kek Gaddafi was no Islamist
He was a pan Arabist who turned into a pan Africanist
>>2348355Why are you such a freak
You push people away from communism rather than pull them towards it
>>2348342https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/document/mideast/agedict/ch06.htm
>In a speech at a World Jewish Conference at Geneva in 1934, Wise attacked the Labourites who had become the dominant force in Palestinian Zionism:
<One leading Palestinian put it over and over again at Prague: Palestine has primacy. This conference must clearly state, that while Palestine has primacy over all other factors in the equation, its primacy ceases when it comes into conflict with a higher moral law. [28]
>Wise had identified the rot in the WZO: the land of Israel had become far more important than the needs of the people Israel. Labour Zionism had become, in the fullest sense, a utopian cult. They saw a new Jew in the old Jewish land as the only way for a Jewish nation to continue to exist. The real Jewish people, the millions of Jews of the Diaspora, were no more than a reservoir from which they would pick young immigrants to build their state. The Diaspora, as such, was doomed: either the Jews would be driven out, as in Germany, or assimilated as in France. With this strange perspective that Jewish survival stood or fell with them in Israel, the Zionists were driven to seek more from the Nazis to make their vision into a reality. >>2348365i did, which is why i hardly care about his government getting toppled
>>2348372there's more than just that but many will hate on the alternatives
>>2348364The debt and reserves thing is real
The great man made river is real
Free education and housing is real
Literacy rate growth is real
idk abt the other stuff
>>2348375>i did, which is why i hardly care about his government getting toppledof course you don't, radlib.
Gadhafi helped as much as he could the IRA, to the point he has a wall on Ireland.
Let me know when you get your own.
>>2348368>>2348364t. never been in Gadhafi's Libya, and think they know more than Parenti.
radlibs, gtfo back to reddit.
>>2348411he also ignored basic warning signs as far back as the 1980s and was a complete schizo retard
>>2348408it didn't, the reason why he was toppled was because he kept making retarded decisions and did almost nothing to stop them
>>2348412i will i just don't like to see gaddafi revisionism when he was a schizo whose legacy is being raped
>>2348399Qadaffi did more socialism than you will ever do during your life. read his Green Book, it's letter by letter socialism.
>>2348400>le was the fault of the weak.>le islamisthis fucking government was
SECULARfuck off, you braindead redditor.
>>2348445“top end” doesn’t mean “above average”, it’s more than that
maybe it means that in hebrew doe
>>2348454Maybe do some self-crit about what is so triggering about other anon's obvious joke
>>2348462Misrata and Benghazi vs Tripoli and Sirte. Factionalism
>>2348448these are the THREE FUCKING MENTIONS OF RELIGION ON THE Libyan constitution declared in 1969.
https://www.servat.unibe.ch/icl/ly00000_.htmlSECULARwhoever gaslit you, or whoever you are trying to gaslight here, back off, radlib.
>>2348462>ISILoh yeah, his people lol
libya has slavery now btw, not the one where you earn a wage and have an occupation doe i mean the old one where you get whipped and killed like a farm animal
>>2348486deflect. you don't have evidence to substantiate your claims. at least I brought the Libyan constitution where there's no imposition by law of the Islamic faith.
now, go back to reddit.
>>2348492sometimes you take the bait to prevent other bait from getting posted
>>2348493>WAAAAH GO BACK TO WEDDIT WAAAAHi hope you end up like your great islamist leader did
>>2348496islamist because he used islam for how his government is organized, like any other islamist, even the flag you're using is not too different from what he did
>>2348497i'm not baiting, if i was baiting i'd be more sly than this, and >muh constitution only has 3 mentions of islam
isn't really gonna cut it, when it mentions that the state itself is directly INFORMED by the religion of islam
>>2348507as in historical revisionists, but otherwise you're right
>>2348502they must be really underpaying me if i'm going here to call out your blatant historical revisionism and masturbation to a collapsed government, rather than doing anything productive, but i hope your life ends the way his did
>>2348510>gonna cut itnot gonna cut it, because you are fucking fed.
only fed wishes comrades to be sodomized by nato backed "moderate rebels" a.k.a. islamic terror groups with tubes and sticks. you are the level of cpusanon chuckling at hiring cops to find iron felix.
you deserve the wall, no gulag for you, fucking twat.
where we started
>>2348352>gaddafi was ISLAMISTnext bargain
>>2348399>gaddafi was NATLIBnext bargain
>>2348475>gaddafi was NOT SECULAR(you are here)>Third Universal Theory was NOT SOCIALISM ADAPTED TO THE MATERIAL CONDITIONS OF LIBYA>>2348510>muslims are ”islam informed” = ISLAMISTif it was ”informed by christianity” it would be called secular
you’d of course not admit it, you wouldn’t even recognize that it was influenced by christianity because you see le european model as the “default” base
>>2348495Yeah and Western USA has a lot of latino values due to its proximity to Mexico. The values of someone on one side of the border are still distinctly different from those of someone on the other side just by nature of where they see themselves in the geopolitical struggle. A westernized liberal college-educated Turk is still firmly in the camp of wanting their home to become a better place and sharing a strong cultural connection to the developing world. A European right across the border from them, despite sharing probably 90% of their philosophical values, still wants to see the Turk colonized and enslaved for not being European. He may pretend to be friendly with the Third Worldist, he may pretend to respect other cultures, he may even promote multiculturalism and humanist ideals, but you know deep down when it comes down to survival the European will always choose to protect American/European geopolitical interests at everyone else's expense, even when they know it's wrong.
See the current Iran/Israel conflict as a perfect example. Westernized Turks are still firmly against Israel's evil actions while Europeans are still sitting on the fence refusing to take a stance that might jeopardize their current position in the world even when they're aware one side is morally just and the other is a bunch of bloodthirsty zionists.
>>2348525Here's what CIApedia has to say on the matter (is likely more false than true)
>Despite the early close ties, the relation between Sankara and Gaddafi eventually deteriorated. On 15 October 1987, Sankara's former friend and colleague Blaise Compaoré launched another military coup, killing Sankara and making himself President. According to some reports, the coup was at least partially engineered by the Liberian Charles Taylor, at the time a close ally of the Gaddafi regime. Compaoré had previously during the 1980s ensured Taylor's release when he was held in a Ghanaian prison, and introduced Taylor to Gaddafi.
>Libya made an effort to re-establish close cooperation, with a number of state visits following the coup. By 1988, relations were even better than during Sankara's heyday. Despite Libya's status as a pariah state, Compaoré would remain a close Libyan ally, visiting Tripoli a number of times, condemning United States air strikes against Libya, maintaining close military cooperation, and establishing the joint Banque Arab-Libyenne du Burkina. >>2348536lol predicted
so pathetic
>>2348538any country not directly informed by a religion, like some of the european states and some latin american countries like mexico
>>2348543not me retard!
>>2348549>some european states or mexicoso exactly how i described it, thank you
>not mesure, this chauvinusm is the dominant thought so it’s not a surprise that there are two or three and so on of you
>>2348586And Somalia, Qatar, Iraq, and Syria.
No to mention American bases in turkey.
>>2348559hey remember when obama launched a war on Libya without congressional approval, then the house said that he needs to stop bombing libya?
And he kept bombing Libya?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-13908202 >>2348353Gaddafi was an Islamist and explicitly anti-communist
Western lefty incel libs can't help but make hero of actual fascist class collaborationists
>>2348356>>2348359>>2348365كسكم يا ولد الشرموطة
>>234855999 percent Hitler logic right here on leftypol
>>2348578Did you respond to the wrong post?
>>2347982>changing the regime through their behavior>changing their behaviorWhat does Lyndsay Graham mean by this?
>>2348599it is "secular", because the word secular means the default european model for most people
you're not on /mostotherpeoplepol/, though, this explains why you get spanked around by me
>>2348597Thanks Mr Bordiga
>Takes a drag >Blows smokeSo what should we do about the Soviet question my bruddah?
>>2348614>i mean absolute separation of church and stateno bourgeois state has ever or will ever achieved that, mexico and switzerland are not even close
yet they are enough to be "secular" because, again, "secular" means the base european model even though you don't want to admit it
this is because you are lying or, again, as i have already predicted, you are not informed enough to recognized it
>>2348619here, let me make it simple for you
demonkkkraps = porky
re-puke-lickers = porky
kill porky
>>2348628>in an actual sense yesthanks, so you agree that libya was as secular as "model" european states if we go by this "actual sense" (it's called historical materialism btw)
you may take your leave now, it's better to cut your losses short than to further embarass yourself trying to argue before reading more on the topic
>>2348512>85% of Iranian expatriates in the USA did not support any opposition>Of the 15% who did, 20% backed PahlaviWhat an absolute joke. That's 3 percent of ~Iranian-Americans~ who support him
You have the most likely population in the world for royalist gusanos, and 3 percent is the best you could do
This whole thing was fucked from the start. The fall of Syria was obviously huge for Israel, and basically severed the "Shiite Crescent" and helped expand a potential air corridor to Iran. Iraq, while nominally pro-Iranian, is functionally a wild-west state. Furthermore, the pro-Iranian Shias are mostly concentrated in the south while nothern Iraq (where Israel would be flying) is dominated moreso by Sunnis (who generally hate Iran) and Kurds (who hate everyone). Iraq has not moved heavy equipment in the Sunni/Kurd center or north. Kurds for fear the kurds would use it to start a war with Turkey, Central because the Shia government fears the Sunnis would use it against them next time they rise up. Neither Iran or Turkey, (nor Aremenia or Azerbijan) are really serious threats, so Iraq can afford to leave the area largely undefended.
This gave Israel a massive opportunity to open corridor to go to Iran, if they could only get through Syria's dense AAD. So they worked with Turkey on a deal, one I doubt Turkey knew the full extent of (but maybe they did, they hate Iran too): We help take down Assad, you let us destroy Syria's air defense network. Assad falls in November - we're talking 8 months ago - this gives Israel now a full open path to go bomb Iran.
But Iran still has significant AAD infrastructure. So Israel provokes Iran into doing something stupid by bombing one of the IRGC commanders meeting with Hezbollah. Iran launches missiles, Israel responds by sending jets the long way out over the Red Sea to bomb Iranian missiles but most important Air Defense radar. So that now, when they go to destroy Iran's nuclear sites they not only have a direct route to Iran over land, but Iranian AAD is already degraded AND Iranian war planners clearly expected another strike from the South over international waters.
You may not like it, but this what peak 4D chess looks like.
>>2348665It's from 2013 so I would think the royalists support has only gone down
Section 9 / Figure 10 here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20161002041410/http://www.paaia.org/CMS/Data/Sites/1/pdfs/survey-of-iranian-americans-2013.pdfTo be fair, some of that 15 percent would support "any opposition figure", but still embarrassing
>>2348659> The true Jews will be accepted into the global community as well as the Palestinians state, while the Israelites (not Jews) will be relegated to second class citizens.On the one hand, we have people deliberately pretending that the venn diagram of zionism and judaism is a circle, when in fact some zionists are gentile (like joe biden) and some jews are anti-zionist (like Rosa Luxemberg)
on othe other hand we have this weird "no true scotsman" fallacy that pretends true jews are anti zionist and only fake jews are zionist. why not just accept the less complicated truth: zionism is jewish supremacism. it is entirely possible for a majority of jewish people to be jewish zionist (and therefore supremacist) without having to twist yourself into a pretzel pretending there's a "Real Judaism" that is based an anti zionist. Judaism is just an abrahamic religion liek islam, christianity, bahai, mormonism, and rastafarianism. It is anti-materialist and will wither away under socialism like other faiths.
>>2348671As a sucker of retarded islamist schizo cock himself, I just have to chime in here. Uhhh he was cool? And fine? Also he had mad bitches and his country was doing so well it pissed off the West to where they had to kill him. He just wasn't specifically Marxist or whatever the fuck purity bullshit you care about.
He did more than you. He helped more than you. And he fucked way more women than you.
>>2348677>He just wasn't specifically Marxist or whatever the fuck purity bullshit you care about. yeah i care about someone actually being a communist rather than an islamist opportunist
>He did more than you. He helped more than you.so did FDR and clement atlee, but that doesn't mean i need to suck their dicks
>And he fucked way more women than you.ok? i'm gay
>>2348667 (me)
And to finish up my doomer rant, let's talk about Russia. Bringing up Russia is kinda unavoidable given the relationship between Russia and Iran. They worked very closely in the Syrian Civil War and Iran was very supportive of Russia's Ukraine invasion. Both countries had a vested strategic interest in pushing back against American hegemony. All of that careful planning and political maneuvering is a smoking crater right now.
This war Hezbollah started has started to knock over bigger dominoes. Hezbollah is a broken cuckolded mess and when told by Lebanons actual government to sit-down and shut up they actually did. Assad is gone. All the Houthis managed to accomplish was piss everyone off and at the inflection point when Israel called Iran's bluff… turns out they didnt have the hand to back it up after all.
Now they are getting curbstomped and the USA is discovering the Multipolarista BRICS Third Worldist Axis of Resistance against the American Empire was a bunch of bullshit backed up by nothing but copium and propaganda. All it took was Israel to just give it a swift kick and the entire rotting edifice came crashing down.
>>2348235Imo the historical progressivism of the Jewish people was contingent on them being a stateless nation. They have a kind of unique status being highly educated but also subject to the state actors they historically lived within. So I think that gives the Jewish intelligentsia a kind of far-sighted or deeply moral dimension. I’d call it “contextual difference” or something like that. An American Jew has a bit of distance from the colonization of the West, so while he can certainly enjoy the fruits of that colonization he can psychically differentiate himself from it—it wasn’t the Jewish people who were committing indigenous massacres and spreading smallpox, he can criticize it and enjoy a status akin to “innocent” in the ugly actions of nation-states.
Israel however is a novel invention. For the first time in thousands of years there’s an independent Jewish state, run by Jews for Jews. And it’s acting like, well, a state. You saw the same with Liberia—a home for freed enslaved Africans that later engaged in the same European practices of subjugating the indigenous.
Problem is that with modern technology; transit and communication, there’s a more intense contradiction on the part of diaspora Jews. They may have cousins in Israel, or gone on birthright, their temples may have ties to Israeli NGOs, the Israelis use the Star of David on their fucking flag. Whether they like it or not, “Israel” has become the face of the Jewish Nation on the world stage. Had Liberia been founded around the same time, you might’ve seen something similar among African Americans; it’s just in the nature of states, and nation-states are particularly tough to distance yourself from because it’s the supposed representative of a *nation*, a
people. You can say an Empire is subject to the will of supreme ego in the figure of a king or dictator, but the bourgeois nation-state affirms to some: the government wouldn’t be here if it didn’t have support among the people themselves.
And the far right can have a field day with this, because on the one hand you’ve got this progressive tendency among Western Jewish People—on the other, they’re now saddled with a state that they are unfortunately judged by. I’d seen plenty examples of Jewish people in the U.S. talking about how they went to support a BLM rally out here, only to get “nervous” when they see Palestinian flags; you’ve got the Jewish activist for open borders that gets cagey if you ask if Israel should have open borders; you’ve got the Jewish professor who balks at the zealous imperialism of the Spanish but then says that God gave Israel to the Jews.
It’s basically just that old saying playing out: slaves would be masters were the choice theirs. The Jewish people have a state, and with it comes the loss of being able to externalize social critique.
>>2348689First part of your post was legitimately terrifying and unfortunately not implausible but this is veering into unfounded doomerism and misrepresentation. I get Syria and Nasrallah, the suddenness of it all was an absolute shock, and I think the opening move of this war understandably brought back those feelings. But everything we've since that first night should convince us that this is not the same situation.
>>2348689>that careful planning and political maneuvering is a smoking crater right nowI think people were reading too much "political maneuvering" into a place where there was none. Maybe in Qassem Soleimani's time, but the SMO doesn't look like it had much coordination beyond common material interests
>war Hezbollah startedHezbollah did not start any war, and if anything not making the first move was the greater mistake
>Houthis managed to piss everyone offWhom did they piss off again? The westerners and their stooge monarchies? Even that's not correct: the Saudis have been backing off
>>2348711>why are more and more people hating zionists? maybe it's because they are watching them genocide palestine and start world war 3 in real time<no, it's because we didn't get more philos to lie to them about what the bible saysavailable options:
1. read john and revelation then kys retard
2. stop wasting other people's time with made up garbage like religion
>>2348689This is what I've been saying but I've either been called a glow psyops or told that I just gotta wait cuz Russia and China are playing 10D chess and they will win. After all the anti-imperialist proxies have militarily failed and politically failed, all that's left is to economically choke everyone else to bring them back into the western imperialist fold. India will and has been softening up on joining the US and abandoning BRICS. They feel economically and politically strong enough to "join" the table of the western powers. Africa is still sold on China but Africa will be the "battlefield" of the 2030s I promise you. The middle east has been destroyed utterly and Iran stands alone so it's clear they'll be gone after a few years resistance or no the current government will be no more. It is better to admit the reality that the US played this well despite the distaste this is leaving in people's mouths. And what are liberals gonna do? Cry about due process and never change anything or even reform shit. Western imperialism is definitely here to stay. The quicker we can accept this the more prepared we are as communists to resist.
Let me put it another way, imagine you are a communist and Hitler is about 2 years before he takes power. In your mind you are thinking that it'll be alright because the revolution will stop him or the soviets will stop him or that even fucking liberals will stop him. Nope, nobody came to save the German communists, they waited too long and paid the price, they were the first to be massacred. We need to stop pretending that China will save us or that Russia will save us or that BRICS will save us by destroying Western imperialism. No what will destroy western imperialism is from within, from revolution.
>>2348700My solution is to unironically take up the mantle of judeo-bolshevism.
We elevate Iron Lazar to the level of a religious icon and the moscow metro to a holy site.
>>2348832>>2348040Wrong. Everything he says is zionist nonsense. Iran has brought the zionist imperialist to their knees
>jewish ssrYou are the cuck, zionist
>>2348853A different question for those that answer with the dissolution of Israel as a Zionist project.
What do you offer in exchange? You can offer many things to
workers as socialists.
But what can you offer, especially to Jews, that would be more enticing than what Israel or, alternatively NATO offers Zionists?
>>2348858I don't restrict it to just Israel though ,(hence the use of the eords "in general") Human rights, individual rights, etc. are all included.
I just don't believe they exist (as god given, natural, inherent, etc.) The most one can says is that "rights" as a category are a set of social relations, dependent on force for them to be actualized.
So at most one can say that "Israel has a right to exist" only insofar as it has the power to enforce such. We'll see how much it will be tested in the coming weeks.
>>2348867what was offered to the germans? bombs on their heads first, then the DDR
AFTER israel is destroyed you can have a conversation about offering better conditions to jews, no compromise until then
>>2348853Depends on what you mean by "exist."
Preferably, I'd prefer a one state solution, in which Israel is absorbed into Palestine and becomes a secular progressive democratic republic. If a two state solution was what we would have to settle for (1967 borders etc), the ideology of Zionism must be completely eradicated root and stem. Ethno-statist thinking is inherently genocidal and has shown it is a constant threat to the well being of people within the middle east.
>>2348865No it's not.
Not even Hamas wants to kill Jews en masse.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full >>2348873>I would offer them a quick and easy way to die. It's more than what they deserve.Yes, but that won't end Zionism. Even if you can dismantle Israel, which is probably too existential for the USA not to stake everything to the contrary, you'd still end up with unflinching support for Zionism from NATO. You know, Iran is currently making a great case for the troubles of being an Israeli Zionist,a neocolonial cop of a state for NATO. That is, by design, in order to fulfill it's role necessarily at odds with everyone internally and externally.
Meaning that, the mass exodus of Zionists, should this argument sink in, would go where they are offered refuge and privilege for keeping to Zionism.So you are not really solving the problem of Zionism and it's capture of Jewish identity. It'd be just most of them going to NATO and Israel becoming some sort of protectorate like Kosovo with NATO replacing the current state of Israel more explicitly.
>>2348886>Oh no, NATO will still have a colonialist, imperialist ideology!And the vast majority of the global Jewish population, which also support it, and are incentivized to do so.
Flood detected Dost Pisscarded
No wonder why the /pol/yp hates the Greeks as much as the Iranians.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hermaphroditus>>2348917Aw man…
>>2348851It's the eternal mammon/moloch/USA-worshipping prosperity gospel
evangelical, a scourge on the Global South.
>>2348905EU/NATO-occupied government plus geopolitics. Greeks are quite anti-Israel due to a mix of classic boomer anti-American leftism and trad Orthodox medieval anti-semitism (my religion teacher loved to talk about the Jews). Although the latter is eroding in favour of globohomo Trumpist islamophobic or liberal zionist bullshit.
Speaking of Greece:
https://inter.kke.gr/en/articles/THE-KKE-ON-ISRAELS-ATTACK-ON-IRAN/
<“Israel’s planned and targeted air and missile attack on Iran, resulting in the deaths of Iranian officials, nuclear scientists and hundreds of civilians, is fuelling the flames of war in the Middle East and threatening the peoples of the wider region with disaster. The attack was carried out under the pretext of Iran’s nuclear programme, but its real aim is to impose the imperialist plans of Israel and the USA on the wider region.
<The murderous Israeli state is committing genocide against the Palestinian people, killing them en masse and condemning them to starvation. It is bombing Lebanon, Syria and Yemen, and is now escalating its attacks on Iran. The USA and the EU are supporting this state militarily, politically and economically, and are therefore complicit and jointly responsible.
<The New Democracy government bears heavy responsibility, as do the bourgeois parties that cover up the criminal role of the Israeli state in the name of the right to self-defence, while consistently supporting our country’s military cooperation with a terrorist state. Moreover, it is well known that some of the joint military exercises between Greece and Israel involve scenarios and simulations of an attack on Iran.
<Now that the risk of our country becoming embroiled in military adventures is growing, our people must intensify their struggle. They must demand that the Greek government immediately severs its military, political and economic relations with the murderous state of Israel and recognizes the Palestinian state. They should express even greater their solidarity with the Palestinian people as well as the peoples of Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen and the entire region.”
>But what of the anarchi-https://stljewishlight.org/world-news/greek-anarchist-group-claims-it-shot-up-israeli-embassy/>>2348954>Peymanor
>Christin MandlerGo ahead and spot the fake, anon
>>2348979Crushing the occupier in full doesn't mean killing anyone on the basis of their ethnicity. The occupier is the one doing that. (There are different Jewish ethnicities and all must be protected in the multinational Palestine. But no, "Isr*eli" is not an ethnicity and deserves no such protection.)
>>2348991>the basis of their ethnicity Conflating the illegitimate zionist nationality with ethinicity is zionist line. you are a zionist.
>>2349006>jewish nationalityyou are zionist
>>2349007it baffles me that people can't spot the same obvious post pattern over and over thread after thread
i posted
https://files.catbox.moe/3qhbgq.mp4 in a previous thread with the laziest bothsidist ultra impression ever as a joke bait and switch but people replied to it as if it was a real genuine post
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