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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1750902589711.jpeg (9.21 KB, 300x168, download.jpeg)

 

Yes I know worker coops aren't socialism because they still have markets and commodity production but could they at least break the power of the bourgeoisie since there would be no more capitalists at most there would be proletarians and petit bourgeoises

Given this isn't turning 100% of for profit businesses in a country into worker coops a good intermediate goal since it starves the bourgeoisie of their profits which they use to rule with politics?

>>2355512
>Yes I know worker coops aren't socialism because they still have markets and commodity production
By that logic, trve socialism has never existed

File: 1750905487205.jpg (339.46 KB, 1000x999, Engels Marx.jpg)

>To my mind, the so-called “socialist society” is not anything immutable. Like all other social formations, it should be conceived in a state of constant flux and change. Its crucial difference from the present order consists naturally in production organized on the basis of common ownership by the nation of all means of production. To begin this reorganization tomorrow, but performing it gradually, seems to me quite feasible. That our workers are capable of it is borne out by their many producer and consumer cooperatives which, whenever they're not deliberately ruined by the police, are equally well and far more honestly run than the bourgeois stock companies.

<Engels, Letter to Otto Von Boenigk In Breslau, August 21, 1890

>because they still have markets and commodity production
you answered yourself (no)

>break the power of the bourgeois
How is your co op gonna qualify you for a loan

>>2355598
Great post. I don’t hate MLs, but what’s the deal with all the gatekeeping concerning what true socialism is? Coops are a great bridge between Marxism and the general public, but these people won’t be happy unless the president sends all the bourgeoisie to gulags

>>2355640
Now if I remember correctly, China had a lot of cooperatives during the era of the GPCR, but by the 00s a lot of those had returned to private ownership out of a lack of dedication from the members. People stopped showing up except a handful who eventually took private control. So even public ownership can decay into private ownership. As always, eternal vigilance is required. There is no socialism button where socialism becomes permanent. Protection of the revolution is necessary. One thing I think people have trouble appreciating is that when you win you have to wield power. By wielding power you become the "establishment" that you previously hated and sought to present yourself as the opposite of. So you have to distinguish yourself from past establishments while still wielding power enough to keep society socialist from wannabe bourgeois counterrervolutionaries.
>>2355625
There are cooperative versions of banks called credit unions
>Credit unions are not-for-profit financial cooperatives owned by their members. When you join a credit union, you become a member-owner with voting rights and a say in how the organization is run. Credit unions operate under a cooperative structure where profits are returned to members through better rates, lower fees, and improved services. Each member has an equal vote in selecting the board of directors, regardless of how much money they have deposited. Credit unions may have membership restrictions based on geography, employer or association.

>>2355640
it's because you fuckers think abstractly rather than dialectically
>"are cooperatives good, in vaccuum, in themselves, metaphysically? the idea of a cooperative, is it good, in principle?"
instead of doing concrete analysis of a concrete situation and asking whether cooperatives are good as part of a comprehensive revolutionary strategy / socialist construction

the short answer to is [anything] good, is that anything done outside of concrete revolutionary strategy is bad, because everything done in isolation under capitalism is just participating in capitalism

>>2355512
If workers owning means of production in a coop and appropriating surplus they produce is not your end goal then what is?

In my worthless opinion, yes co-ops are obvious a good thing to push for. obviously the end goal isn't an efficient market, but it is also shown that worker stake can improve the operations of a business. disillusionment and disaffection are bad for the operations of an industry or country, or anything really. However, it does not really challenge market dynamics and there is always the risk of capital creeping back in (however I'm not convinced this can't occur just as easily within a broadly centrally planned system). Some co-ops also have issues in certain industries and may not be a best fit. However, I'm willing to take some small broad efficiency cuts since it would improve the fabric of society to have a worker democracy. I do not think the bourgeoisie will accept this of course, to me the real struggle is to implement a system that cannot simply be dismantled and degenerated via the accumulation of capital.

>>2355518
War communism

>>2356006
>however I'm not convinced this can't occur just as easily within a broadly centrally planned system
USSR you mean?

>>2355512

Sure, go ahead and start one up if you like. None of us here will stop you.


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