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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1750956955500.png (2.23 MB, 1600x900, 1750923401077-0.png)

 

Alternative title: Why you shouldn't need to read theory to know what's up under global capitalism. Start doing populism you idiots.

Many here have taken issue with me in the past when I have said that 'in order for investors to get what they spend, the workers must spend what they get', or with my claims that this can explain:
- Capital Accumulation
- Boom & Bust Cycles
- Political repression of workers

I hope to expand upon what I mean by these statements and convince you of their truth, and thus show you that my argument is sound and based on trivial intuition, thus no need for any fancy theory.

First of all, on the simplest case. Whilst I do not generally approve of 'simplifying assumptions', here I think they are valid since I am making a monetary argument: I hope to show the logical necessity of the simple case, and show that the more complicated cases of our real world are simply emergent properties of this base case and do not invalidate it.

We will start with an economy that has fixed capital and four economic 'functions' an actor can take: To 'invest' the money one has available (by spending on productive assets), to 'spend' the money they have available on assets which are non-productive (though perhaps which are vital to subsistence), to work (which brings in income) and to receive income from investment. In the case of the investment function, it is obvious that the productive asset yields surplus, and that this surplus returns to the one investing. From our assumptions we see, this surplus must come from other actors in the economy.

Anyone who is familiar with Kalecki will immediately see where I'm going with this, and I hope it is obvious to you that no one will 'invest' unless they reasonably believe they can get surplus value from their investment, which means that everyone else in the economy must be, in aggregate, spending money into the hands of the one investing. This is in fact, Kalecki's basic two-sector model. Since the total capital flow in the economy must be made up of investment and consumption, then we say

`F_S = S_I + S_C`
Where
F_S = Flow of spending
S_I = Spending on investment
S_C = Spending on consumption

`F_I = I_I + I_W`
I_I = Income from investment
I_W = Income from labour

And since the flows must be equal for the amount of capital to remain fixed in the economy (that is, every debt has its credit)

`F_I = F_S` => `I_I + I_W = S_I + S_C`

Now with some re-arranging we can see that the surplus of investment i
`S = I_I - S_I = S_C - I_W`

That means the surplus of investment comes from total consumption occurring in excess of total wages. I.E., for investors (net investors) to get what they spend, the consumers (net consumers) must spend what they get. For investors to get more than what they spend, the workers must spend more than what they get. That is, in 'normal' economic functioning, the trend is for investors to accumulate capital.
How can this be? How does such a system work and sustain itself? There are two main mechanisms:

*** 1 Credit Expansion
In this case, the amount of capital in the economy is increased via debt, in order to maintain consumption.

Credit expansion involves an expansion of our model from a system of fixed capital to one where it can vary. Now I want to take a moment to discuss how inflation works.
In a re-arranged form of the well-known monetary equation:

`P = MV / Y`
M = Money supply
V = Velocity of money (how often each unit is spent)
P = Price level
Y = Real output (GDP)

It is clear to see that for prices not to rise, any increase in the money supply must be counterbalanced by a reduction in the velocity of money, or an increase in real output. That is why you will often see the fed brazenly try to crash the economy to fix inflation. I also want you to note that if real output is increased proportionally as a result of the increase in the money supply, then prices will not rise.

This means that credit expansion can continue so long as investment remains productive. But suppose that, suddenly, investment becomes unproductive! Perhaps there is no further efficiency gain to be made, or people have over-speculated. Well it's clear that in this case there will be a crash. This gets me onto my next point: boom and bust cycles are a natural product of feedback from this phenomenon. In times where investment is profitable, investors predict the good times will continue, and S_I goes up. However, the moment that consumption dips there will be a reversal in this trend: investors become fearful, and this phenomenon leads to boom and bust cycles. As Kalecki points out, this is exacerbated by the fact that there will be a lot of fixed capital lying around used specifically for investment that cannot be repurposed (machines and such) and this deepens the issue. When investors do not spend, workers cannot make money, meaning they cannot consume.

*** 2 External appropriation
Luxemburg speaks of this mainly Surplus value is realised via exports to non-capitalist markets, fuelling imperialism. I am too lazy to do this one rn and haven't read Luxemburg's works on imperialism in some time. But maybe later if I don't get shidded on for this thread

Finally, on the repression of workers. It's clear that there's an intrinsic animosity under capitalism between workers and investors, so investors will often forgo profits in order to collaborate to spend money to repress workers so they never realise this inherent tension.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk stop pretending I'm stupid just bc I don't cite Stalinist dogma every two sentences thank you.

Here's some sources I used to back up my points while writing dis so I don't sound like a schizo but honestly mostly I just reasoned it out from first principles and remembered where some people spoke about what I already had in my brain long ago.

Ted Harvey lectures on Kalecki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73gWjTXd-ts

Luxemburg's Accumulation of Capital
https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1913/accumulation-capital/ch01.htm

Political Aspects of Full Employment
https://delong.typepad.com/kalecki43.pdf

Theory of Economic Dynamics
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.122597

I don't wanna hear some fuckwit going 'nuhhh its bc the bourgeoisie exploiting the proletariat not bc of this' when you literally have no idea what or I am talking about like what happened last thread. That's literally a fundamental part of the two-sector model you dipshit you know who you are.

Thank you for adding equations. Finally something of substance.
And fuck the Leftcoms who will shit on this with their qualitative vague bullshit.

>>2356551
are you talking to yourself, schizbro ?

>>2356565
you are a united nations agent and you will break into my house telling me to eat the bugs and I'll be in the corner screaming I HATE THE BOURGEOISIE I HATE THE BOURGEOISIE I HATE THE BOURGEOISIE

fuck you.

>>2356564
yeah i mean the point im trying to get at is this is incredibly simple and you shouldn't actually need the equations to explain it to people but some folk here (the mods im including in this criticism since they locked my last thread for not being 'substantive enough') let this theory and 'substantive discussion' shit run their minds. you can explain this stuff to a 10 year old with pretty pictures and it's the same shit.

>write thread saying 'for investors to spend what they get, workers must get what they spend'
>fast replies, but thread locked for being 'low quality' and people are being uncharitable about what I say
>write long effortpost explaining and justifying this point of view w reference to Kalecki and Luxemburg
>2 replies

This is why your estonian snail-racing board is dying.

>>2357670
I will reply once I am able to devote the time to it but now I have to sleep so I can get up for work tomorrow.

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>>2356539
>I hope to expand upon what I mean by these statements and convince you of their truth, and thus show you that my argument is sound and based on trivial intuition, thus no need for any fancy theory.

File: 1751025903296.jpg (174.84 KB, 624x887, Fq4zZtLXgAgFlVn.jpg)

Interesting thread, thanks anon!
It seems intuitive to me that 'in order for investors to get what they spend, the workers must spend what they get'.

Let's take an absurd example: imagine a small society where there is one capitalist with a factory producing trinkets, and a bunch of workers working at the factory.
Now let's imagine no workers spend the wages they get from working on trinkets at all, because they grow potatoes, have clean water, live a simple life, whatever. They save the money for the future and don't spend any of it, while still working (I told you it was absurd).

As a result, the capitalist would sit on a stock of trinkets he can't sell on the domestic market. Therefore he is damned because he doesn't get his money back to continue his investment.
That's why the ECB set an inflation target of 3%, for example. If your money lose its monetary value over time, it's more tempting for spend it into consumption and investment than to save it.

This is also related to Hobson's theory of imperialism (who influenced both Lenin and Luxemburg).
What happened during Hobson's time is that the workers in Western domestic markets were paid very little, just enough to reproduce their existence like Marx described, so capitalists could maximize their profits.
The problem is that they couldn't sell to workers as many commodities as they wanted compared to their productive capacities, they were limited by their own choice of paying low wages in fine.
So what did the Western capitalist states do? They invaded other countries, and once a country became subservient, they forced it to consume the commodities they produced, preferably at very high prices.
A perfect example of this are the Opium Wars.

Now there is a problem with my previous example: let's imagine the workers all spend their money on trinkets, so the capitalist get all his money back.
As someone who read Marx, you know that the goal of the capitalist is to appropriate himself a surplus from the labor of his workers, right?

The problem is that, assuming a fixed/finite amount of money in circulation, the capitalist will sit again on a surplus stock he cannot sell.
One way to make the workers consume everything would be to increase the monetary value of the money, or basically decrease the prices of trinkets.
This is deflation. This is bad for capitalists. In the real economy, when deflation happens, capitalists will want to decrease the wages of their workers, depressing economic activity as a whole.

Hence the role of debt in our current economic system. You introduce a bank and create debt ex-nihilo, so you can get 3% inflation and people either have to work harder or invest more to pay back the debt.

At this point, the limits of my Crusoe-like example have been reached, it was pretty silly and perhaps a bit confusing, but in the context of our present large scale globalized economy, I think it can still illustrate why inflation, imperialism and debt are related to this observation: 'in order for investors to get what they spend, the workers must spend what they get'.

And investors who stop investing and start saving all their money can be just as problematic for capitalism than workers saving too much, and it happens sometimes, hence supply side economics.

Keynesianism was an attempt at solving the problem of workers not spending enough money, but I think I will stop there for now, I eventually need to hit the books at some point.

The ultras are winning, and for good reason

>>2357808
Winning what?

>>2356539
So what was your point?

>>2357670
>'for investors to spend what they get, workers must get what they spend'
What insight am I supposed to get from this stupid simplistic juxtaposition?

>>2357809
Everything

>>2356539
>Alternative title: Why you shouldn't need to read theory to know what's up under global capitalism. Start doing populism you idiots.
I liked your first statement, because that is how I feel about Marxism. All the proletariat are well aware that they are being "exploited" or rather robbed I would say, and you only need some long convoluted analysis to prove this point to you if you are bourgeois which is who Marxism really exists for.

Capitalism, feudalism, whatever only exists by force and systematic bribery and etc., the "superstructure" explanations about why some people deserve to have more than they can ever use and some people can't have enough to live are obvious hoodwinkery on the face of it and require no convoluted debunking.

File: 1751028387040.png (1.27 MB, 1000x1000, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2357817
Like how I view Marxism, like you lived in a slave society, and you needed some convoluted explanation about economics and numbers to come around to the point:
>Hey!
>Those are people too!
>What we're doing to them is quite fucked up!

File: 1751029837843.png (525.9 KB, 680x499, ClipboardImage.png)

This image tells the whole story of class conflict. This is the true relationship between employee and employer.

>>2357841
Kind of ironic too, that unless a society accepts capitalist hierarchy, no communist society is possible by evidence.

I believe communism or whatever is the future, but on the face of it, we got to eliminate all bourgeois individuals. No one should get more than anynone else, especially when some of the people aren't getting enough to live. It's such a simple equation. This human being, is getting awarded with more resources than he could possibly use, this human doesn't have enough to live. It is obvious to kill all these greedy people. What advantage does the mass have by letting them live?

>>2357847
I mean, life is short, we can make it shorter. Every decadent motherfucker needs the guillotine to make it shorter. It's so simple. Either renounce your wealth to the needy or die.

>>2357848
I mean "Sharing is Caring." We ain't fucking around with you. We need no convoluted explanations. You need to give or die. Renounce your wealth and thou may live, thou may continue to draw breath on this Earth in the physical form, or the masses may obliterate that.

>>2357851
I swear to god we'll kill all you fucks sooner or later. Stop being greedy. You are better than no one and in time we'll climate you entirely.

>>2357854
>in time we'll climate you entirely.
I have no idea what word I intended. But I think my intentions are still kill. Booj fuckers will die or submit.

>>2357856
Wet bulb

>>2356539
We need theory so we can figure out how to inflict further economic terrorism on the bourgeoisie.

>>2358278
Like for example illegal immigration helps kill the monopsony rents used to keep the Brown man down. Illegal immigration helps the petty-bourgeoisie and hurts the labor aristocracy but overall helps the proletariat and hurts the bourgeoisie. Helping border jumpers helps fight the man.

>>2358278
have you tried a large rock

>>2358349
have you tried a large cock ;)

>>2357817
>>2357820
well the dialectical and historical materialists argue that socialism is not possible before at least some part of the world passes through capitalist society. stalin even argues in his 1930s work on diaectical materialism that slavery was historically necessary to build up agrarian society. so it's less about debunking the arguments in favor of exploitation and more about explaining how forms of exploitation arises materially and then self-sublates through historical evolution of society

>>2358604
"dialectical materialism" = instant pseud alert

>>2357817
>Marxism is bourgeois
another day another banger


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