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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1751014025445.webp (143.78 KB, 1600x1058, Silk-Road.webp)

 

I am a quite sceptical of the third-worldist position, I wonder if anyone could illuminate the answer to these two questions for me:

1. Many seem to presume that capitalism is already global but I don't think that's the case; there are plenty of areas which capitalism has not de/re territorialised as of yet. I am not even sure that the rate of globalisation is decelerating. Is there clear evidence of this?

2. I understand Marxism to be the study of the *development* of material relations, so I would generally assume that the closer you get to the imperial 'core', and the most developed/mature zone, the closer you get to the place where revolution can happen. Don't most revolutions occur in the capital cities of nations because this is where the core of power resides? Why wouldn't a revolution against imperialism therefore occur in the capital 'country' of capitalism (I.E., the country which holds the reserve currency, has most imperial power and is the controller of foreign surpluses).

I agree that the third-world is where the brunt of exploitation occurs obviously and is thus the largest pressure point, but I would assume that any pressure would have to destabilise the core in some way and precipitate a revolution there as well.

Hello I'm a third worlder please abandon this mental illness and stick to marxism we don't need more retards cheering for our local bourgeoisie thanks

>>2357688
>Many seem to presume that capitalism is already global but I don't think that's the case; there are plenty of areas which capitalism has not de/re territorialised as of yet

Like where? The heart of the Amazon?

>so I would generally assume that the closer you get to the imperial 'core', and the most developed/mature zone, the closer you get to the place where revolution can happen

To rigid an understanding of the world capitalist structure/too compartmentalized. There are many factors that prevent revolution in the first world as opposed to the third. Plus the actual historical fact of successful revolution having only occurred in relatively more underdeveloped places

Not a third worldist btw, just addressing the issues with your questions

>>2357698
>Like where? The heart of the Amazon?
The kingdom of England.

>>2357691
what country if you don't mind me askin

>>2357688
The counter argument to this is that even the least developed countries are more developed than England was when Marx wrote Capital, I think the essence of being a peripheral country is not the absolute level of development of the nation, but its development relative to the core. DPRK has nukes and computers. 1840s England did not. But 1840s England was the imperial core and DPRK is still a peripheral country. Does that make sense?

>>2357691
not an argument

retarded bs main supporters of it a whitoid westerners who use as an excuse to never do anything

>>2357691
eff pi bi pi

>>2357688
>>2357713
Why can't any of these siege-nations make any form of communism? I guess DPRK they are happy enough but they could provide more proof. They should show more of what they have going on there.

>>2358189

A lot of information (especially concrete numbers) are deliberately withheld by the DPRK government from publication so as to keep the enemy as much in the dark as possible.

In fact, I suspect they deliberately exaggerated how bad the arduous march was in order to trick the US into a sense that the DPRK would soon collapse (as well as get some free humanitarian aid).

One indicator of this is that the demographic data we do have shows no sudden birthrate collapse 1996-8 when there was supposed to be a famine (which we would expect of there was starvation); Instead we get a gradual decline over 20 years, and its still higher than most of Eastern Europe. Further the death rate spike up in 95, but at a total increase similar to eastern europe from the early 90s, and the declines to similarly after 2003, relatively stagnating afterwards.

>>2357688
Not even a third worldist but I can answer both of your questions, because neither have anything to do with third worldism.

>1. Many seem to presume that capitalism is already global but I don't think that's the case; there are plenty of areas which capitalism has not de/re territorialised as of yet. I am not even sure that the rate of globalisation is decelerating. Is there clear evidence of this?

Which areas do you see where capitalism doesn't exist? It doesn't sound like you have an issue with "Third Worldism" here as much as you have an issue with the basic thesis of Leninism and imperialism.

>2. I understand Marxism to be the study of the *development* of material relations, so I would generally assume that the closer you get to the imperial 'core', and the most developed/mature zone, the closer you get to the place where revolution can happen. Don't most revolutions occur in the capital cities of nations because this is where the core of power resides? Why wouldn't a revolution against imperialism therefore occur in the capital 'country' of capitalism (I.E., the country which holds the reserve currency, has most imperial power and is the controller of foreign surpluses).

Most revolutions haven't happened in the capital cities. In China, Vietnam, Cuba, Russia, etc. the strongholds of revolution have been far away from the capital of the country. The last time a major revolutionary movement was actually entirely centered in a capital city was the Spartacist Uprising in Berlin. You are thinking of these areas as simply "developed" but you aren't paying attention to how. In all of these countries, and looking at the world relationship between the imperial core and everyone else, the "developed" areas are developed precisely because they have an extractive relationship to the countryside. People living within these "developed" areas benefit in material ways from this extraction (better living conditions, higher wages, resources concentrated in grocery stores and shopping centres, etc.) and are disinclined to accept a decline in these benefits in order to wage revolution. This is why, in every modern revolution, the heart of the revolution is in the countryside and/or among the most exploited and extracted-from members of that society. While we like to mechanically think of that as simply "the workers" this ignores looking at the internal contradictions among workers in the hope of preserving an unprincipled and nonexistent "unity".

>I would assume that any pressure would have to destabilise the core in some way and precipitate a revolution there as well.

This is true!… in the presence of revolutionary leadership of a conscious mass base. This is a major factor in the success of the Russian Revolution, one which subsequent movements have largely failed to repeat. There is a two-way relationship between revolution in empire and revolution in the periphery, each stands to strengthen the other. However, we can see in the absence of revolutionary leadership the workers of the imperial core will instead turn reactionary and cheerlead — or at least not act to stop — the suppression of revolution in the periphery in order to preserve their relative standing. We can see this today in the rhetoric of Americans around the revolutions in Peru, India, and the Philippines — along with largely cheerleading the invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya — and especially in the complete impotence of "pro-Palestinian" action in the US. The need for a revolutionary party and revolution is greater than ever here.

>>2358231
> The need for a revolutionary party and revolution is greater than ever here.
That doesn’t make it possible, anyone in a NATO or adjacent member state will be about as effective as internal German resistance to Nazi rule (ie not at all)


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