/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2371906
You already answered your question
Stalin in exchange for political expediency sold out to nationalism and declared that Soviet Union already achieved socialism which caused immense damage to Marxists globally which lasts to this day

>>2371931
The emergence of the Russian bourgeois state flows naturally from the failure of the Russian revolution, and the subsequent counter-revolution, obviously. It's a break from everything the dotp was supposed to stand for.

I'm just curious what leftists here think about this fact.

>>2371938
Well, anarchists and libsocs have no problem criticising USSR onviously
MLs here are hit or miss

Very curious

From the POV of Ruski nationalists Lenin gave away Ukraine Finland etc. they see Brest Litovsk as a failure because they don't agree with proletarian defeatism.

bvmp

>>2371931
>communists winning the war against european military hegemon and becoming the one instead was a defeat of communism

Yikes. I guess USSR supplying weapons and resources and expertise to half the world as it was decolonizing didn't matter, because only Westoid communists matter :^)

>>2371906
Hard to hate on Stalin as a bourgeois nationalist when Stalin has preventatively purged spies, and bourgeois Russia has people getting blown up by spies 4 years into conflict

>>2373112
>Stalin has preventatively purged spies
Is that what you call killing the original bolsheviks who were critical of him?

>Another you-wont-amount-to-noffin' thread
gg, no re

>>2373108
>communists winning the war against european military hegemon
By allying with said hegemon
>defeat of communism
Communism won? I don't have to wage slave today?
>USSR supplying weapons and resources
Yes to Nazi Germany

>>2373108
I'm middle easterner the Soviet intervention in MENA was the worst thing to happen in the history of our working class second only to the war on terror.

Read Tareq Y. Ismael (after you're done reading Marx) you illiterate westoid retard.

>>2373140
You just don't understand DIALECTICS dude. Stalin HAD to support Israel in order for it to be defeated. You just don't get it dude.

>>2373156
His support for Israel is the tip of the iceberg it's almost insignificant compared to the other shit, but it's funny that that's all what MLs know about Soviets fucking us up.

>>2373129
>Yes to Nazi Germany
Also to Israelis to aid in the nakba

Russophobic thread

>>2373140
You are a moron
No wonder MENA is fucked

These are the people who call you russophobic.

>Interesting how the Russian liberal state is comfortable with honoring its Stalinist history but shy away or actively despises anything to do with Bolshevism or Lenin
It is, but it also makes a lot of sense. People do look back at the soviet days as progressive, it's hard to crit a regime that went from a fukken backwater to putting the first people in space and toppling the Nazi regime, along with other marvels. I suspect it would be tactless to denounce or even ignore that history. Even from a vulgar nationalist perspective, it was an honorable regime. But I suppose they don't want to glorify revolution because of obvious fucking reasons.

>>2373116
Should have killed them before they fucked up Shanghai in the 20s ;)

>>2373288
>that flag
>that post
lol
lmao

>>2373108
Nothing to do with communism tho. Good job on he industrialising and moving people from rural to urban centers.

Lenin and the Old Bolsheviks are irrecuperable to rightoids cause they represent internationalist revolution. They are the people who pushed for ending involvement in the capitalist war against the wishes of everyone other political party. Stalin just gets reduced to the guy that defeated Germany, cause the guy didn't even do anything that revolutionary and out of nation-state status quo.

Stalin was a playa like ᴉuᴉlossnW who saw the opportunity and seized power

>>2373116
why do westies fetishize "the old bolsheviks" so much?
Half of them were revisionists themselves, and got purged for saying and doing retarded shit later on.

>>2373521
they were so revisionist that stalin who himself is a revisionist couldn't point out their revisionism so he just made shit up to murder them.

It's an attempt to try and unify that specific niche that somehow gets Russian socialists and ultranationalists together.

>>2371931
>sold out to nationalism and declared that Soviet Union already achieved socialism
National sovereignty is a threat to finance imperialists, just look at how anarchists and Zionists have been completely aligned in turning countries into their slaves

>>2373874
Hitler speech bubble

>>2373646
>they made shit up that they agreed
<Not a single one of them did like Georgy Dimitrov and sperged out in session so the media and observers, many from liberal regimes that want to shit on the USSR, would pick up like a golden goose propaganda piece against the USSR.
oh no bro.

>>2373647
> those stupid vatniks aren’t t really communists because they don’t want to destroy Russia!
Actually correct

>>2373902
>they did this no probable thing!
>also being quiet would totaly save them, organizing a total protest in the trial exposing these abuses would not damage Stalin's trial and agitate the people against him in front of pretty much the world.
wow!
Also when Nazis had Stalin's son and were asking for a general for his life stalin chose a defender of the Revolution over personal connections.
>Inb4 Thats bad aktually.

Stalin was right to liquidate the top level of military command, most of them were total incompetents

>>2373908
Yes the head of the second most powerful state in the world compromised his son's life unlike the cowardly imprisoned dissidents with their entire lineage on the line

I like how since no historian worth his salt takes the trials """evidence""" seriously MLs have to go off word of mouth obtained torture and threats. Welcome back comrade bush.

>>2373916
Many of whom were outright Nazis in league with Bukharin and Trotsky

>>2373927
Ideology doesn’t matter, ability does

>>2373927
ML conspiracy theories assraped by history

>>2373935
Stalin won, you lost, get over it

>>2373932
It actually does when the ideology in question is “kill most Russians and enslave the rest”

>>2373935
trotskyist wreckers assraped by what actually happened

>>2373941
If a man wants to kill Russians that’s his own personal problem, if a man has the power to kill Russians that’s Russia’s problem

>>2373938
Stalin won because Russia is still liberal

>>2373932
this is probably the stupidest thing you could possibly say about ww2 'oh the soviets should have totally let their nazi top level generals stay in charge of the army fighting the nazis' you fucking retard, please kill yourself for the sake of humanity's gene pool

>>2373946
what is krushchev

also america/the west had nothing at all to do with it, it was all that dastardly stalin who intentionally got his country destroyed for NO RAISIN

>>2373949
when the liberal great man magic particles run out :/ (he is still a great man doe)

>>2373948
You misunderstood me, the “purges” were the right thing to do regardless of the ideology of any of the top brass. They didn’t have the ability to execute a patriotic war of defense against the Germans and were justly executed for it. I wish the US did the same during the civil war, America would be a better place if Burnside and McClellan had been executed for treason regardless if it was true

>>2373949
>what is krushchev
Stalin's close comrade and heir who continued his every policy to the degree that MLs can't tell the material difference between the two eras.

>>2373956
Was it continuing Stalin’s policies when he denounced him as a tyrant and forced people to grow corn in Siberia resulting in a famine that killed millions?

>america/the west had nothing at all to do with it
They had something to do with it. They armed Stalin :)

>>2373957
Trump isn't a neoliberal because he called Biden old or something idk

>In Allied countries, Stalin was increasingly depicted in a positive light over the course of the war.[432] In 1941, the London Philharmonic Orchestra performed a concert to celebrate his birthday,[433] and in 1942, Time magazine named him "Man of the Year".[432] When Stalin learnt that people in Western countries affectionately called him "Uncle Joe" he was initially offended, regarding it as undignified.[434]

Not like this Stalinsisters…

>>2373959
Trying to deflect from Khrushchev’s treachery with irrelevant “orange man bad” shit?

>the ML is also a magacom
its joever

>>2371906
>liberals honor stalin but not lenin
you're almost about to get it.

Stalin can be idolised by rightoids because he defended the USSR, which in their deluded minds was an empire, from a invading force and expanded the sphere of influence of the USSR. Lenin on the other hand stopped wars and was very interested in the self determination of SSRs.

>>2373923
When Bukharin was abroad he openly expressed his knowledge of Stalin's intention to kill him yet still went back to the USSR as life wasn't worth living otherwise for him.

Bukharin avoided criticising Stalin so people would rally around him in the case of a German invasion.

Bukharin had to lie in the trail to spare his family' life yet his wife was still sent to the gulag after his death, even then he refused to take sitting down and smartly manoeuvred his way to expose the charade in the means available to him.

Bukharin was a revisionist yet still an infinitely more respected revolutionary than Stalin ever will be.

If stalin didnt purge people those people would become defeatist and sabotage the war effort or sue for peace or something like that

>>2371931
>sold out to nationalism and declared that Soviet Union already achieved socialism

On the Final Victory of Socialism
in the U.S.S.R. -Stalin, 18 January 1938 - 12 February 1938:

Indeed, it would be ridiculous and stupid to close our eyes to the capitalist encirclement and to think that our external enemies, the fascists, for example, will not, if the opportunity arises, make an attempt at a military attack upon the U.S.S.R. Only blind braggarts or masked enemies who desire to lull the vigilance of our people can think like that.

No less ridiculous would it be to deny that in the event of the slightest success of military intervention, the interventionists would try to destroy the Soviet system in the districts they occupied and restore the bourgeois system.

Did not Denikin and Kolchak restore the bourgeois system in the districts they occupied? Are the fascists any better than Denikin or Kolchak?

Only blockheads or masked enemies who with their boastfulness want to conceal their hostility and are striving to demobilise the people, can deny the danger of military intervention and attempts at restoration as long as the capitalist encirclement exists.

Can the victory of Socialism in one country be regarded as final if this country is encircled by capitalism, and if it is not fully guaranteed against the danger of intervention and restoration?

Clearly, it cannot, This is the position in regard to the question of the victory of Socialism in one country.

It follows that this question contains two different problems :

1. The problem of the internal relations in our country, i.e., the problem of overcoming our own bourgeoisie and building complete Socialism; and

2. The problem of the external relations of our country, i.e., the problem of completely ensuring our country against the dangers of military intervention and restoration.

We have already solved the first problem, for our bourgeoisie has already been liquidated and Socialism has already been built in the main. This is what we call the victory of Socialism, or, to be more exact, the victory of Socialist Construction in one country.

We could say that this victory is final if our country were situated on an island and if it were not surrounded by numerous capitalist countries.

But as we are not living on an island but "in a system of States," a considerable number of which are hostile to the land of Socialism and create the danger of intervention and restoration, we say openly and honestly that the victory of Socialism in our country is not yet final.

But from this it follows that the second problem is not yet solved and that it has yet to be solved.

More than that : the second problem cannot be solved in the way that we solved the first problem, i.e., solely by the efforts of our country.

The second problem can be solved only by combining the serious efforts of the international proletariat with the still more serious efforts of the whole of our Soviet people.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/01/18.htm

>>2373874
>finance imperialists
Too on the nose.

>>2373521
>why do westies fetishize "the old bolsheviks" so much?
Idk it's pretty weird to kill everyone who participated in the revolution

>>2374068
Maybe he shouldn’t have sponsored terrorist attacks that killed Soviet workers

>>2374164
yeah literally everyone
like the whole apparatus
stalin just killed them all
this is how history works
you just kill people and then kill some more

>>2371906
Stalin just means RUSSIA STRONK to the right wingers, a symbol of an era where Russia was a world superpower. With Lenin is totally different because many of them still unironically believe that he was a german spy and foreign agent or whatever.