/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2378908
> Surely producing them would be so difficult you would need some form of top-down planning to create such things, no?
No they claim logistics come through coordination by threat of violence for individual entrepreneurs. Like you're either with us or against us mentality for this kind of planning where they claim they're free but they're forced to engage with each other by threat of violence by the majority.

>>2378920
>by threat of violence for individual entrepreneurs.
That's the realized ones, they are ok with that, others who are not realized are individual entrepreneur minded and are recreating the capitalist mode of production.
Its all like perma DOTP without calling it DOTP without producers exchanging their products its just this really violent society where they coordinate to allocate resources or get killed by the coordinated mob.

>>2378920
>>2378922
It looks all like this one book from NAM, I imagine the masked guy is like a coordinator of violence and the guy he caught was trying to do individual entrepreneurship making deals and trades instead of producers not exchanging their products and instead reporting their produce and having it allocated through conferences for coordination of resources, the total sum produced in a month is calculated so if less comes somebody has to die cause obviously they're hoarding and trying to exchange use values.

>>2378929
>It looks all like this one book from NAM
Minus the nation, its just coordination and conditioning and eventually if they can keep up the cycle of violence they can socialize all so they won't need coordinators they will just put the resources into barracks and keep logs and give demands to the producers which will only restock and not dare hoard or try to exchange because they will literally be lynched.

>>2378930
The producers do not exchange their products, computers make logs, eventually resource allocation is deliberate towards a goal. They all have to gather or send representatives and talk on required use values for project building.

>>2378931
At this point though no one gathers, the logistics are settled and dialogue is ran by computers anyway. Producers make use values, logistics handle, resources are allocated to storage facilities / barracks, logistics handle, assemblers handle, all project participants are planners, projects are determined by societal strives, societal strives are determined by persons with set goals and project proposals, bystanders do not engage, those who don't engage have no say except to be producers or assemblers.

>>2378908
Picrel only works on surplus value on scarce resources, otherwise these use values are made for projects and require planning.

>>2378936
And even then, for that guy to take the surplus value, he should have permission, from everyone, or he's going to get killed and they will take back that 7 nm FinFet-based microprocessor and put it back where it was.
Resource wars will literally not end as long as there is scarcity and a need for allocation, at some point there ought to be a strive for literal materialization but since spontaneous materialization of things cannot happen it will be advanced restructuring - turning literal dirt into microprocessor use values by complex machinery.

>>2378938
A clique of intellectuals ought to come as free planners bundling up to projects and take heed, these planners literally cannot overstep their boundaries if the projects affect others - they have to be included and therefore are forced into dialogue until consensus, that is so fucking tedious at some point these "intellectuals" may as well just be computers.

>>2378920
>>2378922
>>2378929
>>2378930
>>2378931
>>2378933
>>2378936
>>2378938
>>2378939
At this point we're way past "captain of the ship", its already been set there is representative roles, as big forehead Stirner (ENGELS) said: what is freedom? to have responsibility for onself. Its a matter doing the task a person is assigned to, just like being given administrative clearance or punished. There cannot be a negligent captain, the crewmen will mutiny him, that's the logic of anarchism. The captain cannot overstep his boundaries, cannot threaten, cannot give unnecessary demands or commands when given the clearance to handle lives and complete a task, this direct role is practically at an invisible gunpoint.

>>2378942
What hierarchy concerns anarchism? The essence of it is "without rulers". Who truly rules? A captain who threatens to crash a ship if they don't blow him, or the crewmen who will mutiny and kill him for asking that.
Being in a post of "power" means nothing to a fictive "hierarchy", they are on the same playing field so long as they cannot overstep their assignment.

>>2378908
im not even an anarchist but of course advanced production can happen without a state - how could you be a communist and not believe this?

it's another
>why would anyone do anything without a gun to their head
argument I see

Moving on
>>2378908
>would production of advanced goods like aircraft carriers happen in an Anarchist world?
The infrastructure is already there, the first phase on takeover requires a takeover of logistics and assignment of those competent to operate into the correct positions by allocation which can only ever happen through coordination by dialogue - much like any job interview since the inception of specialization / the division of labor.
Where there is a lack of role, on a specialist's need, there must be allocation towards creating a new specialist.
There is this ladder of constant refusal undialectical people want to go through on hypotheticals, in a case of absolute refusal from everywhere to assign a specialist for a much needed task, someone will literally be forced into it and it may as well be the ones calling for a specialist hardest - do it yourself turns to we do it onto you.

A specialist can only be created by having comprehensive knowledge on the matter, they must be given the material and forced to learn it.

Moving on.
Without all the "but what ifs", if there are already fit people in the field they will continue work as usual - the chain of supply will just be taken over. If sectors refuse or strike (FOR WHAT? MONEY IS ABOLISHED, THEY CAN ONLY STRIKE FOR USE VALUES) they will be punished for sabotage just like the kulaks.

>>2378945
It is a point though. I'm saying as long as there is resource scarcity there will always be problems with resource allocation, the same with scarcity in certain professions nobody wants to take up. AT SOME POINT, anarchist and communist and any movement or mode of production will be pointing guns to heads of certain people to keep the drive going. Anything other than that is idealism or luddism in the strains of "antiwork" and such reactionary behavior.
What anarchists and newer communists must be reminded of is that he who does not work neither shall he eat (unless he cannot work of course).

>>2378948
>I'm saying
And I mean responding to the OP. I'm not the OP.

>>2378908
Democratically elected intellectuals subject to recall supervised by other democratically elected intellectuals subject to recall.

>>2379844
No democratic bullshit, organically selected individuals by merit and ability to be delegates. You have never been in an Anarchist Federation before, we don't "democratically elect" our delegates, we hate democracy, all you western "anarchists" are trot and succdem cults.

i find anarchism and anarchists retarded but this thread sucks just like all the utopian world-crafting threads we have every week