<And, besides, those ancestors of ours had to deal with genuine Gauls bred in their own land; these are degenerates, a mongrel race, truly what they are called - Gallograeci. Just as in the case of fruits and cattle, the seed is not so effective in keeping up the strain as the nature of the soil and climate in which they are reared are in changing it.https://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/E-Books/misc/Livy/HOR_38.htmI was under the impression that racism came with European colonialism of the Americas. But this quote from a Roman orator reads unironically like some Hitlerite speech.
>>2379035I feel like eugenics was prominent during slave society democracies but died down during feudal society monarchies. And then eugenics went up again with capitalism and bourgeois democracies.
So I would really place the underlying material motivations as similar. Eugenics is a means to justify inherited privilege in a way which doesn't allow for tyrants/kings. Slave societies were afraid of being obsoleted by feudal societies so they needed eugenics instead of divine right. Capitalists overturned feudal societies for wage slavery so they went back to eugenics.
There are still some substantial differences today of course. But yeah race justifies conquering and pillaging while not allowing kings. Why are capitalists and slavers more democratic than feudal landowners? Not really sure. Absolute monarchy had always really been a myth. Historically, kings were always very distant figures. It seems to me that feudal society just required less trade. Slave society traded directly in bodies and capitalism trades in goods/services. But feudal society was much more decentralized. So the state was necessarily more distant and authoritarian.
>>2380345>AsiansThat's bullshit anon
>>2380561You do not understand historical materialism I'm afraid, the lib here is you. All of history rises immanently.
All of it. Capital is as old as usury. But it only came to dominate the world with industrial labor, by flooding the world with commodities, which itself was only possible thanks to increased productivity in agriculture (it is called the British Agricultural Revolution, and it is no coincidence that Britain would lead the Industrial Revolution). That was previously impossible, the bottleneck that tied societies to producing for consumption. But still, a tiny minority of artisans, merchants and lenders in those times were able to accrue capital, hence, "capitalism has always existed" is not a false statement, it's just misleading.
>>2379401wrong
Race was always a thing
It's just that populations did not mingle with other races far away until a few centuries ago.
Once vastly different peoples had to live on the same land, racism became mainstream
Origins of Xenophobia
1. Evolutionary Psychology
Early human societies lived in small, kin-based groups. These groups competed for limited resources like food, territory, and mates.
Encounters with unfamiliar groups often brought danger—violence, disease, or theft—so being wary of outsiders increased a group's chances of survival.
This “ingroup vs. outgroup” distinction became hardwired in human cognition as a survival heuristic.
2. Cultural Evolution
Over time, cultural norms, languages, rituals, and belief systems became markers of group identity.
Suspicion of those who didn’t share these markers helped preserve group cohesion and trust.
Myths, stories, and religious teachings often framed outsiders as threats, reinforcing xenophobic attitudes.
3. Neuroscience and Cognitive Bias
Studies show that the amygdala, a brain region involved in fear and emotion processing, activates more strongly in response to unfamiliar or “different” faces.
Cognitive biases like the “mere exposure effect” (people prefer things they're familiar with) further explain discomfort with the unfamiliar.
>>2379035>>2381210>racism has always existedLol, this thread is painfully American.
>>2381197A key part of Capital is showing that things that appear transhistorical are not.
>historical materialism99% of people spouting this shit are utter pseuds. At least you didn't bring up the magic dialectics.
>>2383242I know there were countless slaves plugged into individual households who did operate as slaves in the classical sense, however, the vast majority of slaves in the New World, the New World being where the vast majority of traded humans in the Atlantic exchange ended up, were utilized for a very particularistic and at that point historically unique utilization of enslaved labor, slaves annexed and deployed for the specific purpose of producing raw materials for export into international markets
Prior to modern colonialism, the main purpose of slaves was not to cheapen raw materials for the purposes of future surplus extraction once waged laborers transformed said materials into finished goods; prior to the main purposes of slaves was the production of goods for immediate utilization by the masters, surpluses to be utilized by the state and so on
>>2381210>Race was always a thingLmao retard
>Once vastly different peoples had to live on the same land, racism became mainstreamJesus Christ, where do people come up with this shit?
>>2384513it is just the history of the world
If you bother to study the history of peoples beyond europeans that is
>>2394855define "objectively" and what a system's "interests" are?
Is capitalism a desiring thing?
>>2394941I would like to know how you define what the interests are of a system comprising of millions of people. In a darwinian reproduction sense? Capitalism as the tool of porkies or despite their class?
I wouldn't even say that desire-interest would be entirely a wrong thing to put it as.
>>2379035It depends how you define “Racism”, if you define it as the Nazi style “Scientific” Racism, which claimed to determine which populations are supposedly “Superior” or “Inferior” based on various heritable physical characteristics (ie. Nasal Index, Cephalic index, Skin Color, Eye Color, Hair Color, etc.) associated with various geographic populations (ie. The Biological concept of Race, which I controversially do not believe is “Racist” in and of itself, as their is nothing wrong with scientific studies on the beautiful Phenotypic variation inside the Human species that is shown on this interesting website
http://humanphenotypes.net/ , and it is frankly ridiculous to claim that a German, a Yoruba, and a Chinese person look the same, as anyone who is not blind can easily differentiate between them, Forensic Anthropologists can tell whether an individual is of West Eurasian/“Caucasoid’, East Eurasian/“Mongoloid”, Sub-Saharan African/“Negroid’, or Australo-Melenesian/“Australoid” Racial ancestry based on differences in their Skull Structure/Cranial Measurements, and Population Geneticists can tell your ancestry through your Autosomal DNA PCR clusters and Y-DNA Haplogroups, and Physical Anthropologists in the USSR published Racial Typologies and recognized Race as a Biological reality, as the Biological concept of Race only becomes “Racist” if you do what the Nazis and Southern Crackers did, and use these Biological categories as an excuse to oppress/exterminate populations based on the Pseudo-Scientific Eugenicist idea that Race is linked with intelligence, and that certain Races are “Superior” or “Inferior” in some schizo hierarchy, as any Marxist knows that the concept of “Intelligence” is based on whatever is or is not valued in a specific Mode of Production, and that what people call “Intelligence” has been scientifically proven to be overwhelmingly the result of Environmental/Socioeconomic factors over genetics), then that crap has only been around since the European colonialism of the Americas, but if you define Racism as any belief that one ethnic group is “superior” to another “inferior” ethnic group group, and that the “superior” ethnic group should oppress/exterminate the “inferior” ethnic group with or without any “Scientific” justification (in Pre-Modern times, Religion was typically the Superstructural excuse, and since the Nazis ruined the ”reputation” of Scientific Racism, religious excuses have made a comeback), then Racism literally goes back to several thousand years ago (the first civilizations in the Slave/Ancient Mode of Production), if not Tens of Thousands, Hundreds of thousands, or even Millions of years ago (even though they were in a primitive Communist mode of production, most Hunter-Gatherer societies did have tribal wars with each other, with this violent behavior even seen amongst Humanity’s closest relatives, the Chimpanzee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War ), and contrary to this fellow Comrade
>>2384505 , Genocide has unfortunately been the norm throughout History, both of the Violent (Slaughtering entire Ethnic Groups/Nations) and Cultural (Assimilating and Mixing entire Ethnic groups/Nations out of existence) variety, as seen in the Video of the Changing Ethnic Map of Europe over the past 2000 years I posted, which shows dozens of Nations/Ethnic groups in Europe, divided into several large Ethno-Linguistic groups, most notably the Germanic peoples, Slavic Peoples, Romance Peoples, etc. all of which have been Migrating/Invading, Mixing, Assimilating, and Genociding each other over the past 2000 years, with many Historical Invasions/Conquests/Migrations which archeologists previously thought were cases of elite dominance/assimilation, have now been proven by Population Genetics studies of Y-DNA Haplogroups and Autosomal DNA to be Mass Migrations which usually involved Violent Conquest/Genocide of the indigenous population, with the survivors forcibly Assimilated/Mixed into the conquering Ethnic group, with this notably being the case with the Anglo-Saxon Conquest/Settlement/Invasion of Britain
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05247-2 , the Slavic Migration to the Balkans
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10752003/ , the Indo-European Migrations to Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia, and the Indian Subcontinent
https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/nature14317.pdf , and I find it quite hilarious that somebody would use the Mongol Invasions as an example of an event that was not a Genocide, considering the fact that they single-handled transformed Southern Central Asia from being populated by predominantly West Eurasian/Caucasoid Middle Eastern Iranian people to being populated by partially East Eurasian/Mongoloid Central Asian Turkic People, with both overwhelmingly Primary Sources and Archeological evidence showing the destruction of entire Cities with the mass slaughter of all of the inhabitants (every Man, Woman, and Child was murdered with no exception) which obviously would amount to Genocide by any rational definition of the term, 😂🤣🤢🤮✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️🧬!
>>2381197Blue = dumber
Red = smarter
>>2396586The very conception of "humanity" as a universal that communists can speak of is new. It follows from that premise that people dehumanized out-groups.
I raid your village. I kill you and capture your women and rape them. Nobody from my village sheds a single tear for either you or the women from your village. The women from my village might have even encouraged it, perhaps it was revenge.
My village does not view the people of your village as equals.Question: how is what I just described not racism just without color-coding?
>>2414472Well the obvious answer is because premodern societies usually did not care about whether you are a rapespawn or an offspring of two full members of the society
Even in Sparta, Mothakes who were half breed between Spartan citizens and slaves could rise to high position of power
Islamic societies had many slaves of Slavic and Turkic descent who they frequently raided ending up in the upper echelons of Islamicate bureuacracy
In India there were slaves of Ethiopian descent who ended up as sultans
And in Tsarist Russia a black boy from Mali could be a nobleman and gave descent to one of Russia's most celebrated writer (Pushkin)
The fundamental divide between in group and out group is not genetic, but religion.
>>2414499What if I told you "religion" is firstly a concept invented by Christians during the colonial era and secondly that "religion" was how reality was structured in the minds of premodern people, in
the same way that capitalism and science are the "reality" today. People performed rituals because not only did they "believe" in them,
they thought that the rituals actually worked.
Hence, "religion" for premodernity was, in part, those people's equivalent of "race science". To spell it out: your people are inferior to mine, because they are fools, because they do not know how the world really works, and my people are special, because we know how the world works. Again, does this not sound eerily similar to racism's obsession with intellectual inferiority/superiority?
>>2414800Yeah this too
Pygmies diverged literally 60.000 years ago
Wtf is this anon saying "1.2 million years"
>>2396422 Would any of my fellow Comrades like to give an Intellectual critique of my In-Depth Dialectical Materialist Effort post on the History/Origin of Racism, along with my controversial opinion that the Biological concept of Race is not “Racist” in and of itself, and does have Scientific merit (Soviet Physical Anthropologists published Racial Typologies, Forensic Anthropologists can determine an Individuals Race based on their Skull Structure/Cranial Measurements, Population Geneticists can determine your ancestry through DNA samples, etc.), as long as it is not used to justify Hierarchical Eugenicist notions of Racial Superiority/Inferiority, which can be used as an excuse to Oppress/Exterminate populations deemed “Inferior”, my Video of the Changing Ethnic Map of Europe over the past 2000 years, and my related examples (backed by Population Genetics, Primary Sources, and Archeological evidence) showing that Genocides have unfortunately been quite common throughout History, 🧬🤔?
>>2379247The transition from slave societies to feudal ones were too gradual for the former to really have a reaction from it, beyond that, racism in the ancient world is much older, Hipocrates divided the world in three "races" based on climate, the barbarian brutish but brave northerners, the cowardly but civilised southerners and obviously the the greeks as the mix of the two, being the brave civilised ones.
The Romans also originally believed in similar ways, but with their massive expansion, those ideas died out, their last bout was the wars of the allies, where non roman italians rebelled against Rome, nearly destroying the state, and while they lost millitary, the romans elites realised that they couldn't both keep the proletariat (They actually were called like that back then, Marx just took the name again) class down and keep the non romans down, as such, racism gradually fell down in favor of a supremacy of romans as a civilisation and not as a people, leading eventually to the granting of all inhabitants of the empire, including people formelly called barbarians, this was kept until the end of the Roman empire.
The new barbarians kings had no matter for racism, as they already barely had any power and desired to integrate in the new roman system as to preserve the control of their new ruling class in their new kingdoms.
However centuries later, in France (I don't know about other countries) when feudalism actually devellopped and needed to justify itself in the face of multiple crises of the Hundred Years war, (Etienne Marcel, the Jacquerie and the contestation of French royal power) the French nobility started to claim their right of rule came from their stenght as the descendents of Frankish conquerors, and that by blood, they were superior to the the french peasentry, descended from the ancient gauls. So, I don't think it's fair to say that those societies weren't racists, they just had a clearly somewhat developped system of racial hierarchy in order to justify the current social order. However the origin of the modern form of racism, is indeed more to be seen in the transatlantic slave and colonialism.
>>2379035>Reports of dog-headed races can also be traced back to Greek antiquity. In the fifth century BC, the Greek physician Ctesias, in his Indica, wrote a detailed report on the existence of cynocephali in India.[9] Similarly, the Greek traveler Megasthenes claimed to know about dog-headed people in India who lived in the mountains, communicated through barking, wore the skins of wild animals and lived by hunting.[10] Claudius Aelianus also mentioned the dog-headed tribes in India, and he, too, wrote that they are of human shape and clothed in the skins of beasts. He also added that although they have no speech and howled to communicate, they were capable of understanding the Indian language.[11] Herodotus reports claims by ancient Libyans that such creatures inhabit the east of their lands, as well as headless men and various other anomalies.[12]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynocephaly#Ancient_Greece_and_Egypt Unique IPs: 71