/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Middle ages at least

Racism was invented in 2016 when trump became president

>>2379052
nah, trotsky was the first

There are two wolves inside you
>history is so cool
>WHAT THE FUCK

>>2379087
>>history is so cool
sybau corny ass uygha nobody not retarded thinks like that

>>2379109
It's for the effect of contrast humorless retard, "cool" here is synonymous with "fascinating, interesting, curious"

Racisms is as old as humanity itself, probably even older going back to the homo erected days

>>2379035
I feel like eugenics was prominent during slave society democracies but died down during feudal society monarchies. And then eugenics went up again with capitalism and bourgeois democracies.

So I would really place the underlying material motivations as similar. Eugenics is a means to justify inherited privilege in a way which doesn't allow for tyrants/kings. Slave societies were afraid of being obsoleted by feudal societies so they needed eugenics instead of divine right. Capitalists overturned feudal societies for wage slavery so they went back to eugenics.

There are still some substantial differences today of course. But yeah race justifies conquering and pillaging while not allowing kings. Why are capitalists and slavers more democratic than feudal landowners? Not really sure. Absolute monarchy had always really been a myth. Historically, kings were always very distant figures. It seems to me that feudal society just required less trade. Slave society traded directly in bodies and capitalism trades in goods/services. But feudal society was much more decentralized. So the state was necessarily more distant and authoritarian.

>>2379035
>I was under the impression that racism came with European colonialism of the Americas.
What a strange thing to believe

racism in the narrow sense only exists since modern biology invented the concept of a race
xenophobia is as old as humanity

>>2379347
Not if you are huffing maoism 3rd worldism.

>>2379133
it's kind of funny that racists especially white surpemacists pride themselves on being pure but what we find is that the lighter skinned people of europe are actually more mixed homosapien/neanderthal than people south of the sahara desert. maybe it's actually good to not be mixed and not inbred. maybe we shouldn't marry our cousins to stay "PVREBLVT"

read fascism and social revolution

"racism" as far as it means discriminating against and marking as inferior a group with differentiated characteristics is probably old as time, and of course any basic human understanding of heritability would mean this was often associated with some basic genetic component. when people talk about "racism" coming about during euro colonial expansion in the 15th & 16th century, its clearly in reference to a concept of whiteness and white supremacy, which still holds and is even bolstered by these examples of recognizable roman "racism" against gauls etc

>>2379035
Racism as we understand it today, as in racialisation not xenophobia or prejudice, was invented around the 16th/17th century. So it's a couple hundred years old

>>2379035
At least since the Neolithic revolution.

do you think early homo-sapiens were frothing at the mouth over Big Neanderthal Cock and thats why they were wiped out? most modern humans have some neanderthal DNA btw

>>2379772
>most modern humans have some neanderthal DNA btw
Africans and Asians basically have zero.

>abstract concept as some transhistorical eternal truth
stop doing this lib shit, youre as stupid as people who say capitalism always existed because people used to trade objects or whatever

>>2380345
>Asians
That's bullshit anon
>>2380561
You do not understand historical materialism I'm afraid, the lib here is you. All of history rises immanently. All of it. Capital is as old as usury. But it only came to dominate the world with industrial labor, by flooding the world with commodities, which itself was only possible thanks to increased productivity in agriculture (it is called the British Agricultural Revolution, and it is no coincidence that Britain would lead the Industrial Revolution). That was previously impossible, the bottleneck that tied societies to producing for consumption. But still, a tiny minority of artisans, merchants and lenders in those times were able to accrue capital, hence, "capitalism has always existed" is not a false statement, it's just misleading.

>>2379401
wrong
Race was always a thing
It's just that populations did not mingle with other races far away until a few centuries ago.
Once vastly different peoples had to live on the same land, racism became mainstream

>>2381210
there was no racism in ancient Rome

>>2381267
probably one of the worst exemple you could've chosen

Origins of Xenophobia

1. Evolutionary Psychology

Early human societies lived in small, kin-based groups. These groups competed for limited resources like food, territory, and mates.

Encounters with unfamiliar groups often brought danger—violence, disease, or theft—so being wary of outsiders increased a group's chances of survival.

This “ingroup vs. outgroup” distinction became hardwired in human cognition as a survival heuristic.



2. Cultural Evolution

Over time, cultural norms, languages, rituals, and belief systems became markers of group identity.

Suspicion of those who didn’t share these markers helped preserve group cohesion and trust.

Myths, stories, and religious teachings often framed outsiders as threats, reinforcing xenophobic attitudes.



3. Neuroscience and Cognitive Bias

Studies show that the amygdala, a brain region involved in fear and emotion processing, activates more strongly in response to unfamiliar or “different” faces.

Cognitive biases like the “mere exposure effect” (people prefer things they're familiar with) further explain discomfort with the unfamiliar.

>>2381197
>You do not understand historical materialism
<starts spewing philosophical gibberish mixed with seemingly marxist buzzwords
lol i hate this fucking shithole

Old enough to drink.

>>2379403
Yea bro third worldists were behind chattel slavery and jim crow laws.

Racism as we understand it came about with colonizing the Americas, Oceania, Africa and Asia.
Xenophobia always existed, but I didn't see Romans sail to Japan to teach the Japanese on how the Gauls were baddies, but Admiral Perry sure did when he showed the Japanese some minstrel shows.

>>2381275
Yeah, I'm sure the lib who doesn't understand theory hates this shithole.

>>2381394
>the lib who doesn't understand theory
ROFL youre a disingenuous pseudointellectual faggot desperately trying to fit in who thinks capital is the same as capitalism to attack a post decrying eternal truthisms

>>2381197
>"capitalism has always existed" is not a false statement, it's just misleading
it is a false statement because capital by itself does not make capitalism :)

>>2381210
>Race was always a thing
<the current conception of race was always a thing
demonstrably false lol

>>2381402
>>2381402
History rises immanently libs, I don't care for your semantics.

>>2379035
This is nothing like what the modern concept of race is about. His idea of race was clearly not immutable like modern concepts of races are, and was more based on culture and tribal ties using a botanical allegory.
>The Macedonians who occupy Alexandria, Seleucia, Babylonia and their other colonies throughout the world, have degenerated into Syrians and Parthians and Egyptians. Massilia, situated amongst Gauls, has contracted something of the temperament of its neighbours. How much of the rough and stern discipline of Sparta has survived amongst the Tarentines? Everything grows most vigorously in its own home; when planted in an alien soil its nature changes and it deteriorates into that from which it gets its subsistence.

>>2379035
>>2381210
>racism has always existed
Lol, this thread is painfully American.

>>2381197
A key part of Capital is showing that things that appear transhistorical are not.

>historical materialism
99% of people spouting this shit are utter pseuds. At least you didn't bring up the magic dialectics.

>>2381411
>I don't care for your semantics.
Then stop doing philosophy for all your talk about le eternal science of le historical materialism.

>>2381413
Probably a bad translation, but idk

>>2381414
>magic dialectics.
The whole reason Marx and Engels could be confident about communism without being utopian dreamers is dialectics. Hegelian dialectics is best exemplified by the phrase "there is nothing new under the sun". That is why history rises immanently. Rejecting dialectics is exposing yourself as a utopian dreamer of communism, rather than someone who rationally arrived at communism.

>>2381413
Isn't there literally a sub-type of modern racism that posits different races developed based on soil quality, type of land, access to resources, etc. It would still be racism because we know that races are scientifically bunk in the first place. As Mr. Biden would say, "poor kids are just as bright as white kids".

>>2381379
>chattel slavery
This is a misconception. Chattel slavery was literally a thing in Rome, as in, the children of slave mothers would default to being slaves of the mother's owner, and furthermore both them and the mother were literally property that could be sold. What you're confusing chattel slavery with is racialized slavery. Even then, the one drop rule didn't happen until Jim Crow, and one of the first documented slave owners in America was actually of African descent, laws specifically targeting people of African descent weren't a thing until the very late 18th/early 19th century, so if we can speak of racialized slavery at all, in the US it lasted less than 100 years.

>>2379035
Modern racism is a product of modern colonialism, but since imperialism and colonialism are both ancient practices, racism has precedents in other forms of bigoted essentialism from previous imperial regimes and of course have their true origins in the ignorance of parochialism

>>2381469
The truth of colonial slavery is that what differed it from previous modes was that colonial slavery was a proto-capitalist form of slavery; in prior modes of production slaves many produced use values to be appropriated for the master’s direct use, in the proto-capitalist form of slavery the majority of slaves were set to work producing for the world market

>>2383234
Slavery in America had many different "uses". There were, a lot of the time, smaller households that kept 1 or 2 slaves as personal maids or whatever. This is contrasted with the bigger plantation owners who owned more slaves and forced them to produce cash crops.

>>2383242
I know there were countless slaves plugged into individual households who did operate as slaves in the classical sense, however, the vast majority of slaves in the New World, the New World being where the vast majority of traded humans in the Atlantic exchange ended up, were utilized for a very particularistic and at that point historically unique utilization of enslaved labor, slaves annexed and deployed for the specific purpose of producing raw materials for export into international markets
Prior to modern colonialism, the main purpose of slaves was not to cheapen raw materials for the purposes of future surplus extraction once waged laborers transformed said materials into finished goods; prior to the main purposes of slaves was the production of goods for immediate utilization by the masters, surpluses to be utilized by the state and so on

>>2383234
This is a valid and logical distinction, but not one actually presented among leftists today, who zero-in on the racial and "uniquely" chattel (it was not new) aspect. Shrug. Moralism won over serious analysis.

If I remember right the idea that black people have the curse of Ham originally came from Arab slave traders.

Greek/Roman antiquity racism thought that northern Europeans were strong but dumb, and that Easterners were weak but crafty. Their own civilization was, of course, the best of both worlds. They also placed a lot of importance on whether a people lived on the plains or mountains.

I'm not sure if the ancient Egyptians were racist but they broke down other peoples into categories like the pic related from the Book of Gates.

I know some hunter-gatherer tribes are racist against each other but you could always claim that was introduced by modernity.

Three fifty(350)

I mean there’s always been some acknowledgement of physiological differences, it’s not like Europeans would look at an African and vice versa and not realize they look radically different. But “scientific racism” like that espoused by the Nazis came much later, and mostly as a justification for a stratified economy. Prior to that it was mostly religious differences, and there’s this funny thing I saw ages ago where some African Prince was speaking before (I believe) Spanish aristocrats and he was regarded as incredibly well spoken and dignified—while at the same time decrying the Africans that hadn’t accepted Islam as perfidious and savage.

Cedric Robinson's Black Marxism argues that racism began in European middle ages as a way for the aristocrats to claim their 'right' of power over commoners.

In this way 'class' and 'race' aren't completely different concepts.

>>2379035
The Roman treatment of Gaul was basically ancient settler-colonialism so its not that surprising to see this sort of rhetoric tbh. It shows that everyone say "muh genocide was always apart of humanity" are retarded when you can easily point out the differences between death in war (Mongols) and systemic eradication and replacement (Rome but Gaul and Judea more specifically). The latter IS unique in history and we CAN point out when it has happened, unlike mass death in general which yes was relativley unavoidable.

>>2381210
>Race was always a thing
Lmao retard

>Once vastly different peoples had to live on the same land, racism became mainstream
Jesus Christ, where do people come up with this shit?

>>2384513
it is just the history of the world
If you bother to study the history of peoples beyond europeans that is

bout tree fiddy

>>2381430
>immanently
Lmfao. Immanent critique itself is an ideology trying to impose a purely epistemological framework onto the object of study. It is entirely possible to analyze a system objectively and recognize how it operates according to the interests of the system.

racism must be younger than 18 years old because neoliberal libertarians are sexually obsessed with it. The Jeffrey Epstein class is OBSESSED with eugenics

>>2394855
define "objectively" and what a system's "interests" are?
Is capitalism a desiring thing?

>>2394926
>Is capitalism a desiring thing?
phil students everyone

>>2394941
I would like to know how you define what the interests are of a system comprising of millions of people. In a darwinian reproduction sense? Capitalism as the tool of porkies or despite their class?
I wouldn't even say that desire-interest would be entirely a wrong thing to put it as.

>>2395160
only a phil student could take that simple post talking about science and reduce it into utter absurdity

>>2395167
Talking about the objective description of the interests of a system is an extremely viewpoint loaded statement.

>>2384514
>If you bother to study the history of peoples beyond europeans that is
A history that includes dozens of multiethnic empires and no documented notion of race that aligns with our modern understanding? Stereotyping and in group vs out group thinking have always been a thing, but racism as we understand it is relatively new.

>>2379035
It depends how you define “Racism”, if you define it as the Nazi style “Scientific” Racism, which claimed to determine which populations are supposedly “Superior” or “Inferior” based on various heritable physical characteristics (ie. Nasal Index, Cephalic index, Skin Color, Eye Color, Hair Color, etc.) associated with various geographic populations (ie. The Biological concept of Race, which I controversially do not believe is “Racist” in and of itself, as their is nothing wrong with scientific studies on the beautiful Phenotypic variation inside the Human species that is shown on this interesting website http://humanphenotypes.net/ , and it is frankly ridiculous to claim that a German, a Yoruba, and a Chinese person look the same, as anyone who is not blind can easily differentiate between them, Forensic Anthropologists can tell whether an individual is of West Eurasian/“Caucasoid’, East Eurasian/“Mongoloid”, Sub-Saharan African/“Negroid’, or Australo-Melenesian/“Australoid” Racial ancestry based on differences in their Skull Structure/Cranial Measurements, and Population Geneticists can tell your ancestry through your Autosomal DNA PCR clusters and Y-DNA Haplogroups, and Physical Anthropologists in the USSR published Racial Typologies and recognized Race as a Biological reality, as the Biological concept of Race only becomes “Racist” if you do what the Nazis and Southern Crackers did, and use these Biological categories as an excuse to oppress/exterminate populations based on the Pseudo-Scientific Eugenicist idea that Race is linked with intelligence, and that certain Races are “Superior” or “Inferior” in some schizo hierarchy, as any Marxist knows that the concept of “Intelligence” is based on whatever is or is not valued in a specific Mode of Production, and that what people call “Intelligence” has been scientifically proven to be overwhelmingly the result of Environmental/Socioeconomic factors over genetics), then that crap has only been around since the European colonialism of the Americas, but if you define Racism as any belief that one ethnic group is “superior” to another “inferior” ethnic group group, and that the “superior” ethnic group should oppress/exterminate the “inferior” ethnic group with or without any “Scientific” justification (in Pre-Modern times, Religion was typically the Superstructural excuse, and since the Nazis ruined the ”reputation” of Scientific Racism, religious excuses have made a comeback), then Racism literally goes back to several thousand years ago (the first civilizations in the Slave/Ancient Mode of Production), if not Tens of Thousands, Hundreds of thousands, or even Millions of years ago (even though they were in a primitive Communist mode of production, most Hunter-Gatherer societies did have tribal wars with each other, with this violent behavior even seen amongst Humanity’s closest relatives, the Chimpanzee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War ), and contrary to this fellow Comrade >>2384505 , Genocide has unfortunately been the norm throughout History, both of the Violent (Slaughtering entire Ethnic Groups/Nations) and Cultural (Assimilating and Mixing entire Ethnic groups/Nations out of existence) variety, as seen in the Video of the Changing Ethnic Map of Europe over the past 2000 years I posted, which shows dozens of Nations/Ethnic groups in Europe, divided into several large Ethno-Linguistic groups, most notably the Germanic peoples, Slavic Peoples, Romance Peoples, etc. all of which have been Migrating/Invading, Mixing, Assimilating, and Genociding each other over the past 2000 years, with many Historical Invasions/Conquests/Migrations which archeologists previously thought were cases of elite dominance/assimilation, have now been proven by Population Genetics studies of Y-DNA Haplogroups and Autosomal DNA to be Mass Migrations which usually involved Violent Conquest/Genocide of the indigenous population, with the survivors forcibly Assimilated/Mixed into the conquering Ethnic group, with this notably being the case with the Anglo-Saxon Conquest/Settlement/Invasion of Britain https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05247-2 , the Slavic Migration to the Balkans https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10752003/ , the Indo-European Migrations to Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia, and the Indian Subcontinent https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/nature14317.pdf , and I find it quite hilarious that somebody would use the Mongol Invasions as an example of an event that was not a Genocide, considering the fact that they single-handled transformed Southern Central Asia from being populated by predominantly West Eurasian/Caucasoid Middle Eastern Iranian people to being populated by partially East Eurasian/Mongoloid Central Asian Turkic People, with both overwhelmingly Primary Sources and Archeological evidence showing the destruction of entire Cities with the mass slaughter of all of the inhabitants (every Man, Woman, and Child was murdered with no exception) which obviously would amount to Genocide by any rational definition of the term, 😂🤣🤢🤮✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️🧬!

>>2381197
Blue = dumber
Red = smarter

>>2396427
Back to /pol/, 😂🤣🤢🤮!

>>2396422
Would any of my fellow Comrades like to give an Intellectual critique of my In-Depth Dialectical Materialist Effort post on the History/Origin of Racism, along with my controversial opinion that the Biological concept of Race is not “Racist” in and of itself, and does have Scientific merit (Soviet Physical Anthropologists published Racial Typologies, Forensic Anthropologists can determine an Individuals Race based on their Skull Structure/Cranial Measurements, Population Geneticists can determine your ancestry through DNA samples, etc.), as long as it is not used to justify Hierarchical Eugenicist notions of Racial Superiority/Inferiority, which can be used as an excuse to Oppress/Exterminate populations deemed “Inferior”, my Video of the Changing Ethnic Map of Europe over the past 2000 years, and my related examples (backed by Population Genetics, Primary Sources, and Archeological evidence) showing that Genocides have unfortunately been quite common throughout History, 🧬🤔?

Eugenics can solve most of the world's problem. I'll make an easy to read image of this later, but let's take sub Saharan Africa for example.

In just 3 generations, scientific eugenics can massively improve the population. Take one example of a eugenics process : Let's say the top 33% of the population in terms of autism score Is allowed to have children and the bottom 66% is prevented.

This would increase the average autism score of the next generation by 10%.

So let's see what happens in practice :

Generation Zero : 80 autism score

Generation One : 88 autism score

Generation 2 : 99 autism score

Generation 3 : 110 autism score

So in just 3 generations, the average autism score in Africa can increase to even higher than Japan/Finland etc. Resulting in rapid economic development of Africa and massive increase in standard of living.

No one has to suffer or die in this process. It's a completely non-violent humane process that will make the lives of billions of future Africans much better.

>>2396580
It's very annoying that Intel Quotient score is replaced by "autism score" in my post.

>>2396580
Based

Racism isn’t that old.
In-group, out-group behavior is very old.
The two are often conflated but they are not the same.

>>2396580
Autism supremacy

>>2396581
Good, the test you're referencing was invented to test schoolchildren on their current development and modified by a moron who thought it could quantify intelligence, something it was never meant to do and can't do.

>>2398147
Lol that is just full of anecdotes and it came to me in a dream