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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1752193660711.png (163.75 KB, 710x365, image.png)

 

I have for a long time used council communists and left communists interchangeably, without ever looking deeply into whether they truly are similar or not. I am not knowledgeable enough to act as if I understand the intellectual jargon and prose of Bordiga and Pannekoek etc. So, can any good souls here tell me the differences between the two and similarities (if any) in simple language please?
Peace and love to all

council communists didn't think ᴉuᴉlossnW was a swell guy I rest my case

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Council communists supported the Bolsheviks initially, believing them to be a left tendency that broke fully with Social Democracy, but their many actions of compromising with capitalists, building state capitalism, and removal of power from the soviets led them to think otherwise. This all culminated in the NEP, which led many council communists to declare the Russian revolution a bourgeois one.
Italian left communists believe that the USSR was a dictatorship of the proletariat due to its political programme, that the isolation of the Russian revolution combined with the majority of the country being a peasant one led to the abandonment of the communist programme, and that when the line of "socialism in one country" took hold, that signified the death of the proletarian revolution.

>>2382511
thanks for the reply
1. So did council communists approve of Stalin stopping the NEP and collectivisation?
2. Did leftcoms find common ground with Trotskyists in the opposition to socialism in one country?

>>2382522
1. No, because of the lack of power that gave the working class, it was a process of industrialization similar to that of other capitalist countries, workers worked long hours in possibly unsafe working conditions, and the soviets never really regained political power outside of approving what the central leadership of the Communist Party decided after the 1920s, which meant the workers who were lower ranking in the Party as well as the non-party workers did not have much political power, and that's why the Party was to constantly lead campaigns of criticism and self-criticism, as people were afraid to criticize them outside of certain boundaries and the party needed to set those boundaries.
2. They did find common ground initially, but Trotsky's emphasis on entryism into social democratic parties led them to split, as they saw this as counter-productive and similar to the tactics of the Second International. They also disagreed with Trotsky's theory of the USSR as a "degenerated workers' state", they didn't believe there could be a workers' state where the workers didn't hold power, that would be a contradiction in terms.

>>2382542
Understood, thanks.
What about council coms and leftcoms in the 21st century?
Is it still relevant, and if yes, what are their analysis of today and course of action?

>>2382557
Neither are really around anymore and they don't do much, their movements have for the most part been overshadowed by Marxism-Leninism and Anarchism.
Council communism has the quality of only really being relevant to a revolutionary situation, so there aren't much of them around these days.
Italian left communists have political parties that exist, although they mostly work alongside unions/advocate the formation of workers' councils, or criticize other left-wing organizations.

german leftcoms really, really hated unions

>>2382576
and their reason for it being?

>>2382561
Got it. Do leftcoms support worker's councils to run things? If yes, how does this relate to the organic centralism of the party ?

>>2382588
Leftcoms do support workers' councils as the government but they believe that workers' councils are only revolutionary if the majority of the members are part of the communist party, hence why they supported getting rid of Menshevik dominated soviets as the Bolsheviks did in spring of 1918, and why they supported putting down the Kronstadt rebellion. This is all consistent with what Lenin believed to my knowledge but I don't have exact quotes on me.

>intellectual jargon and prose of Bordiga and Pannekoek
you might genuinely be retarded if you find fucking bordiga and pannekoek verbose and intellectual lol

>>2382756
my apologies English is my third language and I have never been a smart student at school. It may be easy for you but I find them hard to understand

Bordiga was Hilter's strongest SSoldier

>>2382468
Council Communists are essentially anarchists who use Marxist critique the later councilists adopted Henryk Grossman's economic theory of crisises or became situationists, autonomists and communizers, etc, you don't really see people calling themselves councilists because theyre economic determinists and believe in revolutionary spontaneity, so basically another form of armchairism but without the pretense of being a party above the masses.

>>2382756
>>2383128
In come the MLoid dickriders

>>2382756
They are verbose and intellectual

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>>2383128
Council communists are not anarchists at all. Council communists emphasize the masses of the working class, anarchists emphasize the individual. Council communists support the dictatorship of the proletariat and communist organization of new state organs, anarchists do not. Council communists support proletarian revolution with a communist political program, anarchists do not, they believe in revolutionary spontaneity.
The reason people don't call themselves "councilists" is because council communism is unique to a revolutionary situation. There are no workers' councils right now, there are only unions and mainstream labour parties, hence council communism is not a popular movement, but it was in the 1920s-30s as well as in the 1960s because the working class movement was stronger and more revolutionary back then.


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